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Sphit Ker
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.08.02 04:25:00 -
[1]
What is so wrong about Drone Control Units on Carriers? I hear some people laughing at some other people who uses them. I guess they're "bad" but why exactly?
The following statement is not my signature. The preceding statement is my signature. |
Haulie Berry
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Posted - 2011.08.02 04:41:00 -
[2]
Carriers are basically big logistics ships. It's a bit like putting guns on a Guardian.
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Franny
Mentis Seorsum
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Posted - 2011.08.02 04:50:00 -
[3]
there are very few times they are useful POS bashing, where the carrier(s) want to add more sentry drones and the other side not even showing up
that said, they still arn't useful ---------------------------------------------------------- WTB Sig must include NOS Domi KILLING Ponies other details to be discussed, EVEmail me for details |
Arushia
Nova Labs New Eden Research.
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Posted - 2011.08.02 06:11:00 -
[4]
They're essential for boosting your yield in high-sec carrier mining.
I'll admit this is probably not the use the devs had in mind.
New Eden Research, where your research gets done! |
Lady Spank
Amarr In Praise Of Shadows
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Posted - 2011.08.02 06:31:00 -
[5]
It's fine if you use them for pure carebearing and don't get caught and killed in it like DiamondDog did. ~~~
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Jacob Holland
Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.02 06:48:00 -
[6]
There was a time when the Triage Module was thought niche or a joke, despite BoB's "repair a POS in one cycle" triage Chimeras... and then came Clarion Call. Maybe all they need is someone to come up with the right tactic...
In the days when Alliances couldn't muster many carriers they had significant value in allowing more assigned fighters from POS sitting carriers but the move of Carriers to the front lines has enhanced the value of their Logistics modules and thus reduced the value of the Drone control units. --
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Franny
Mentis Seorsum
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Posted - 2011.08.02 07:15:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jacob Holland There was a time when the Triage Module was thought niche or a joke, despite BoB's "repair a POS in one cycle" triage Chimeras... and then came Clarion Call. Maybe all they need is someone to come up with the right tactic...
In the days when Alliances couldn't muster many carriers they had significant value in allowing more assigned fighters from POS sitting carriers but the move of Carriers to the front lines has enhanced the value of their Logistics modules and thus reduced the value of the Drone control units.
CCP also halved the time on triage
and ya, I still have 2 or 3 stationed with my carrier, from the days of 'assign fighters to my alt in a HAC/CS' while bubble hugging ---------------------------------------------------------- WTB Sig must include NOS Domi KILLING Ponies other details to be discussed, EVEmail me for details |
Jacob Holland
Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.02 16:02:00 -
[8]
IIRC the reduction in Triage cycle time came after Clarion Call, the reduction in Triage cycle made Triage more common but I believe it was that video, showcasing tactics for the use of triage in real combat which first made it seem more useful. --
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Baneken
Gallente The New Knighthood Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.08.02 16:10:00 -
[9]
Drone control units take no cap so in that sense they aren't an issue but they do take your highslots where you could fit something useful since 2 more drones don't really make a difference, unless you're clearing anomalies with thanny.
So in conclusion when clearing anomalies/lvl 5/plexes DCU's have their uses but in fleets they are pretty much useless.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
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Posted - 2011.08.02 17:47:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jacob Holland There was a time when the Triage Module was thought niche or a joke, despite BoB's "repair a POS in one cycle" triage Chimeras... and then came Clarion Call. Maybe all they need is someone to come up with the right tactic...
In the days when Alliances couldn't muster many carriers they had significant value in allowing more assigned fighters from POS sitting carriers but the move of Carriers to the front lines has enhanced the value of their Logistics modules and thus reduced the value of the Drone control units.
Except the triage module plays to the carriers strengths and even before the cycle change had an obvious role.
Imagine there was a high slot mod to add an extra 10m dronebay to a guardian, who would honestly field that in a real fight?
As carrier use is in a mature stage their use is streamlined. In order of most effective and specific to less efficient and more general.
A - 5 X xfer fits and 5 RR fits (with egress and RR rigs respectively) with SBs and neuts on BS
B - Mixed xfer and RR fits with CCC rigs (still no local tank) with SBs and neuts on BS
C - Mixed xfer, RR, neuts and SBs, CCC rigs no local rep
D - Carriers with a full mix of highs including DCUs and with local reps
A is the most effective because every ship is tailored to its role, from the cap battery carriers to the armor reppers, smartbombing BS and neut BS and of course the DPS ships. Everything is specialised
B is fairly effective, and will rep a bit less and is a bit more vulnerable to neuts, its performing more roles so its not as good as each. The support roles are still farmed out so the fleet is still fairly efficient.
C and D are both fairly ineffective in having to cover more roles the carrier is truly limiting .its efficiency, the flip side of this is it is able to be used with fewer ships and more broadly.
Eve is a scale of efficiency vs versatility, and because most combat is larger fleets ships can afford to specialise and a carrier is never going to the DPS backbone of a fleet, so conventional logic is not to bother.
A final example look at the ashimmu, it provides damage and neuting power, which is great especially solo. If you had 2 ships though it would be better to have a zealot and a curse/neut legion/pilgrim than 2 ashimmus. Each ship can focus on its role and do it more effectively, meaning over the pair the zealot/legion pair would have greater neuting power and DPS than the 2 less specialised ashimmus.
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RavenPaine
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Posted - 2011.08.02 17:48:00 -
[11]
I keep 1 drone control mounted so I can fly 10 drones. 10 just feels better ?
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.08.02 18:41:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Aamrr on 02/08/2011 18:48:31
Originally by: Telvani A remarkably good explanation.
Just one quibble though. At least with Archons, 'B' is better with RRA's than CCC's, at least if you're still trying to preserve the full low-slot tanking configuration.
It's obviously not as effective as a dedicated Pantheon configuration, but CCC's are inferior if you're trying to run more than 2 CRAR's on a regular basis. A low-grade talisman set should make up the capacitor deficit, even for pilots without capital energy emissions 5, but I haven't run the numbers. If not, an extra cap recharger or two could make up the deficit.
Near as I can tell, this configuration gives the maximum spider tank per carrier that a single T2-fit Archon configuration can generate. Obviously, the dedicated Pantheon fits achieve better results, but are correspondingly more specialized. On the plus side, this configuration reacts better when ships are lost.
Edit: If anyone can prove me wrong on the above claim, please do. I haven't researched this issue as much as I ought to.
[Archon, Pseudo-Pantheon]
3x Capital Remote Armor Repair System I 2x Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I 2x Cap Recharger II
Damage Control II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
3x Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
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Headerman
Minmatar Quovis Shadow of xXDEATHXx
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Posted - 2011.08.03 03:03:00 -
[13]
^^^ Good advice as always.
In regards to DCUs, they have their place, they are not bad in any way. Just need to know when to fit them.
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Telvani
Crouching Woman Hidden Cucumber
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Posted - 2011.08.03 06:12:00 -
[14]
Originally by: RavenPaine I keep 1 drone control mounted so I can fly 10 drones. 10 just feels better ?
This is an interesting point and I think there could be something to be said in situations where your carrier is solo or near solo and the enemy can count fighters to pretend you have carrier lvl 5 if you only have it at 4.
It's a bit of a meta use, but if it put someone off engaging I guess it could be seen as worth it
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Ammzi
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Posted - 2011.08.03 06:49:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Aamrr
[Archon, Pseudo-Pantheon]
3x Capital Remote Armor Repair System I 2x Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I 2x Cap Recharger II
Damage Control II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
3x Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Have you thought about using Meta 2 capital transfer modules for both cap and shield? That should improve either repair output, cycle time, cap usage. I don't believe PG/CPU is an issue currently? When I get home today I will run some calculations as well for cap transfering carriers in chain with eachother.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
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Posted - 2011.08.03 19:34:00 -
[16]
Originally by: RavenPaine I keep 1 drone control mounted so I can fly 10 drones. 10 just feels better ?
10 is nice when assigning fighters, so that two people both get a full set of 5.
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Rastigan
Caldari Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.08.04 11:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Originally by: RavenPaine I keep 1 drone control mounted so I can fly 10 drones. 10 just feels better ?
10 is nice when assigning fighters, so that two people both get a full set of 5.
Carrier 5 gets you 10 drones.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2011.08.04 11:57:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Telvani
Originally by: RavenPaine I keep 1 drone control mounted so I can fly 10 drones. 10 just feels better ?
This is an interesting point and I think there could be something to be said in situations where your carrier is solo or near solo and the enemy can count fighters to pretend you have carrier lvl 5 if you only have it at 4.
It's a bit of a meta use, but if it put someone off engaging I guess it could be seen as worth it
I can honestly say 'they might have carrier 5' has never factored into the decision to engage - or not - on a carrier kill. There are so many other factors that make it largely irrelevant.
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2011.08.04 12:06:00 -
[19]
There is nothing wrong with DCUs on a carrier if you are using it for running anomalys. I personally use 4 with Carrier lvl4 that comes to 13 drones.
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Aamrr
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Posted - 2011.08.05 15:05:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ammzi
Originally by: Aamrr
[Archon, Pseudo-Pantheon]
3x Capital Remote Armor Repair System I 2x Capital Energy Transfer Array I
Sensor Booster II, Scan Resolution Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I 2x Cap Recharger II
Damage Control II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Explosive Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
3x Large Remote Repair Augmentor I
Have you thought about using Meta 2 capital transfer modules for both cap and shield? That should improve either repair output, cycle time, cap usage. I don't believe PG/CPU is an issue currently? When I get home today I will run some calculations as well for cap transfering carriers in chain with eachother.
As someone that drools over them every time I buy them from the LP store? Absolutely. As someone that doesn't own a full percent of EVE's GDP? Absolutely not. A single one of these modules would double the price of my ship -- and it certainly wouldn't make me last any longer if a Titan points a doomsday at it.
...though, this is probably the only viable subcapital fitting that can actually survive a doomsday. It'd need to be at full EHP, and it would come out a smoking wreck that'd die to the first thing that sneezed at it if the hardener weren't overloaded, but...
Ehh, there are a few buffer-fit dreadnoughts that could do it too, but they've got a 10 minute siege cycle to worry about.
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