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TheJacobiteHNTR
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Posted - 2011.08.02 18:19:00 -
[1]
Edited by: TheJacobiteHNTR on 02/08/2011 18:19:36 Ok, before I start this is a pretty mad idea but I've always been a fan of triangles in pvp and I've got an idea for the whole super-capitals are over powered problem in the game and at the same time gives back the role of the Battleship a little whilst promoting Black ops too..... You'll see what I mean :)
My idea consists of this, ccp creates a new module for black ops battle ships that is a sort of the battleship equivalent to the stealth bomber frigs! except these bombs are much much bigger and work on the basis of sig radius. So basically in your everyday 0.0 sov war you attack with your battleship fleet against there's, until someone cyno's in your super fleet and the fight becomes all about the super's. Now with my idea there is a counter to the super's with the black ops bomber fleets which can be covertly cyno'd into a system and drop larger bombs which devastate capital sized ships, to the point you would want to kill that black ops fleet before they could unleash hell onto your shiny capitals. Now at this point your probably thinking that's ridiculous now all you've got is over powered black ops which owns super's! but there are a number of fall backs to the black ops which makes this idea so sweet....
As the ships are already paper thin compared to their t1 counterparts that means they're vulnerable to other normal class battleships meaning a battleship fleet would be the perfect counter to the black ops fleet! This creates a perfect pvp triangle meaning theres always a bigger fish in the sea!
This would obviously need tweeking in the area of statistics of the ships ect. to make it work, perhaps making a new black ops which is faster and coinciding with perhaps some super carrier ehp nerf and fluctuations in price as black ops are a little over proiced these days but all in all its just an idea and I'd be interested in what you guys think. Perhaps even what CCP might think! so please comment.
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Ayieka
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.08.02 18:38:00 -
[2]
that doesn't balance supercaps, that just makes black ops really good.
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thoraxhauler
Northern Dynamics
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Posted - 2011.08.02 18:43:00 -
[3]
technically, it does balance supercapitals - balancing is simply bringing a ship more in-line with other ships based on a number of costs..
Black ops would offer a similar skill intensive boat as well as an expensive boat given it's size and desire of SC pilots to destroy them ASAP.
Seems an interesting idea to be followed up...
(Disclaimer: Please dont remove my sig again for lack of eve-related content, they are obviously coloured warp bubbles, everywh |
TheJacobiteHNTR
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Posted - 2011.08.02 18:43:00 -
[4]
Well you see in theory it would make black ops really good against super's but get eaten alive by a normal battleship
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Fraud2
Black Mountain Security R-I-P
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Posted - 2011.08.02 18:48:00 -
[5]
Also think your idea to kill 'two birds with one stone' is noble, would certainly make some more practical use of the Black Ops boats
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
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Posted - 2011.08.02 18:50:00 -
[6]
That idea of yours actually made me pause and think a bit.
Kind of a round about way of 'nerfing' an SC fleet, but it has potential.
And I, for one, would like to have all the training I put into flying a Sin be actually useful for something fun.
A tentative thumbs up from Mr Epeen.
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Fraud2
Black Mountain Security R-I-P
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Posted - 2011.08.02 18:52:00 -
[7]
Yeah epeen,
I'd agree would be nice to justify buying one of those sexy hulls for more than carting around a few 20 mill ISK manticores!
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
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Posted - 2011.08.02 19:14:00 -
[8]
o/ Fraud
In other news. To the poster: This is a comma --> , This is a period -> . Use punctuation more.
The problem with supers isn't entirely that they can drop a blob of them (because that only happens in high lag giant fleet fights and everyone has about the same chance of survival in that situation, regardless of the ship). The problem is when two similar fleets around 100 ships each start fighting and two or three supers drop into the fight, it completely changes the balance because of their ability to WTFPWN piles of smaller ships with hordes of light/medium/heavy/sentry drones. Then, by the time any reasonable response can be brought to bear, a scarrier will be capped back up and ready to jump to the exit cyno.
I think another, really cool idea, would be that BlOps ships would be able to fit a module that would completely drain the cap of any ship. One press, long cool down. Maybe requires fuel and drains the BlOps' cap as well. Because the biggest threat to a super without carrier-support is to be completely drained of cap. I think I remember reading this as a suggestion before.
This signature is useless, but it is red.
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Warzon3
Perkone
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Posted - 2011.08.02 19:14:00 -
[9]
hell yeah let me use my widow in combat a bit more.
BUT countering super carriers is not the only problem there should also be a use for normal carriers and dreads again. now if your bombs WTFPWN super carriers they will also WTFPWN dreads and carriers as they have a huge sig radius as well.
And we don't want that we want normal carriers and dreads to be useful again. ----
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Downtime is now extended to 19:00 for patch file verification. This is a very important step that must be done to make sure clients are being corrupted.
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Kirkland Langue
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Posted - 2011.08.02 19:26:00 -
[10]
I already gave the answer in an earlier thread:
Give Black Ops BS a "boarding action" that they can perform from the right click menu when within 3km of the Supercap. Then that player switches to a FPS view, using the InCarna engine, and has to run through a maze of automated defenses within a period of time. If they succeed - the Supercap self-destructs. Whether they succeed or fail, the Black Ops BS has been, the entire time, at the mercy of whatever shoots it in the "space-ship" part of EVE. Even if the Black Ops BS is destroyed, and the pilot podded, the FPS aspect continues until the Player fails or succeeds - at which point they return to their BS or their Pod or their medical clone.
Pull that one off CCP.
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Joan Avon
Amarr We See Dead People Atlas.
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Posted - 2011.08.02 20:12:00 -
[11]
This is an interesting idea. In one change you could both provide a creditable threat to super capital ships on the battlefield as well as providing a strong useful purpose to the Black ops battleship that it so desperately needs.
~ Carriers and Dreads are sill an issue as your idea would have another negative effect on their viability unless:
the Black Ops Bombs (BoB) were set up to dish out the hull shattering damage to ships with a sig radius above that of a Carrier/Dreadnought. So that while still dealing some damage to a Carrier or dreadnought it wouldn't be the devastating effect that it would be on a Super Carrier or a Titan.
~ The stealth Bombers mechanics and set up seem to be pretty well designed and balanced so i don't see why that design couldn't be adapted to fit the Black Ops ships.
~ The only issue then is that the Black ops battleships would have it's current anemic role and it's new Super Capital home-wrecker role which could be too much and if so then perhaps one would have to disable/limit one role when using or fitting for the other.
I'm all for seeing a super cap blob get cut to shreds by a (BoB) fleet dropping out of nowhere and sending some far too wealthy/elitist Pilots home in tears.
Please Note: You can be fashionably late but you cannot be fashionably rude. |
Jag Hiroshii
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.02 20:21:00 -
[12]
Interesting........ Very interesting.
Well done OP for a constructive post.
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente C C P
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Posted - 2011.08.02 20:26:00 -
[13]
Moved from General Discussion.
Zymurgist Community Representative CCP NA, EVE Online Contact Us |
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2011.08.02 20:30:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 02/08/2011 20:32:51
Time for ctrl-v again I see. This stupid idea of blackops solving the supercap problem keeps coming up.
Quote: Giving blackops an anti-supercapital role is a stupid idea. You do not solve supercapitals' problem of a lack of vulnerability to all subcapitals by making a subcapital counter in the form of a single, extremely expensive and SP-intensive battleship that will immediately get primaried and doomsdayed. It's just... stupid.
All this will achieve is a lot of T2 battleship wrecks. You need to prevent supercapitals from applying DPS to subcapitals before any changes to subcapitals can be considered. And even then, just get a few Maelstroms to volley the blackops and you're back to square one again.
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Gogela
Freeport Exploration
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Posted - 2011.08.02 20:35:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jag Hiroshii Interesting........ Very interesting.
Well done OP for a constructive post.
I agree. There's been a lot of tears but not a lot of good solutions lately. Good post, OP. I like your idea.
+1
His name was John Turbefield!
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Fraud2
Black Mountain Security R-I-P
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Posted - 2011.08.02 20:45:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Fraud2 on 02/08/2011 20:46:43
Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 02/08/2011 20:32:51
Time for ctrl-v again I see. This stupid idea of blackops solving the supercap problem keeps coming up.
You mad bro?
I think balancing out super-capitals with other ships is a good idea - it would certainly deal with the problem of the devaluation of supercapitals of which some people have invested time, ISK and inevitably real money into.
The intertwining and particular roles of all the capital ships are important - why shouldnt subcaps fit into the categorization and consideration of capital PVP?
Fraud
P.S. o7 bagehi, ex-ACE OP appreciated the flame im sure ;)
P.S.S. whoever suggested 'boarding' - it isnt pirates of the carribean or some stormtrooper s**&!
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Shadowsword
The Rough Riders Ares Protectiva
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Posted - 2011.08.02 20:54:00 -
[17]
This idea isn't new, it's been discussed a good month ago. It has 2 main issues:
1/ If black ops are to be efficient in their anti-supercap role, their bomb need to do monster damage. Supercap spider tanking will absorb anything less without noticing, and the black ops might not be alive to launch a second salvo. But if they do that much damage, how do you prevent a handful of black ops from obliterating a whole dred or carrier fleet?
2/ Black ops will be focused and die in job lots. They're a bit expensive for what is, in essence, a suicide role.
In short, this "fix" wouldn't make SC any less overpowered, it would just make another ship type overpowered. That's why you don't do balancing by boosting ships to the level of the overpowered ones, but by nerfing the problem childs. ------------------------------------------
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Simplus Massive
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Posted - 2011.08.02 20:54:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Simplus Massive on 02/08/2011 20:55:59 One of the more progressive ideas I've seen for quite some time. This might be interesting from a WH/lowsec point of view as well depending on influence to carriers/dreads, etc. Definitely potential for something nice. It might not be a complete solution to SC's, but surely step in the right direction if thought through.
Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 02/08/2011 20:32:51 And even then, just get a few Maelstroms to volley the blackops and "you're back to square one again".
Well, compare to a couple of Zealots that pop the bombers and you're back to square one again. Sure there's a difference in price tags, but SC's are not exactly cheap either.
And since when tf has more T2 BS wrecks, or any wrecks, become a bad thing in EVE? ------------------------------------------ simplus.rjctd.com ★ zaisen.rjctd.com |
Joan Avon
Amarr We See Dead People Atlas.
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Posted - 2011.08.02 20:58:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 02/08/2011 20:32:51
Time for ctrl-v again I see. This stupid idea of blackops solving the supercap problem keeps coming up.
Quote: Giving blackops an anti-supercapital role is a stupid idea. You do not solve supercapitals' problem of a lack of vulnerability to all subcapitals by making a subcapital counter in the form of a single, extremely expensive and SP-intensive battleship that will immediately get primaried and doomsdayed. It's just... stupid.
All this will achieve is a lot of T2 battleship wrecks. You need to prevent supercapitals from applying DPS to subcapitals before any changes to subcapitals can be considered. And even then, just get a few Maelstroms to volley the blackops and you're back to square one again.
there is nothing but a stealth bombers size and speed they prevent a battleship from popping it in a single volley. Not to mention a BS's drones a work a SB over something hard and fierce. Not to mention should that battleship be with a cruiser or frigate which can make mince meat out of them as well. But that targeting speed issue does give the SB a chance and makes all BS at least somewhat vulnerable to them.
Soo...
Drop the Black ops's Signature, Up it's speed and give it some method of combating SC drones/fighters long enough to have a chance at a (BoB) run and escape in tact since Supers are never out in combat alone and without support. (Or at least they SHOULD never be)
Done.
Please Note: The preceding was a presentation of the Carebear Industrial Kiss & Cuddle Network |
TheJacobiteHNTR
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Posted - 2011.08.03 18:23:00 -
[20]
Thanks for the replies everyone! and to CCP Zymurgist for pulling the post into the right thread :P
The way I kind of see this idea is, rather than balancing the game by taking away it balances it by adding something new. Therefore, rather than gaining a positive through a negative (the nerfing of a ship) ccp would actually balance the problem with a positive. If you get what I mean :P
Of course I'm not saying the ships stats should all stay the same but at least through adding a new toy for everyone to play with this change would bring something new to the table that might soften the blow of stat changes to super cap pilots, or perhaps not but I feel it would bring an aspect that could potentially make sov war more interesting.
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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.08.03 19:01:00 -
[21]
Edited by: HELLBOUNDMAN on 03/08/2011 19:05:15 There's a fatal flaw in your suggestion.
What you're forgetting is that bombs are an aoe weapon. They will damage anything within a certain distance of the explosion. While this would work in theory to take out capital fleets, the usefulness of larger bombs would be taken advantage of.
Suppose a fleet of super carriers warps in and is followed by fleet of enemy heavy bombers. BOOM!, big volley of bombs and super carriers are hurting. Now, a fleet of battleships warps in to defend what's left of the sc's against these heavy bomber, BUT WAIT!!!! WHAT'S THIS?!?! 10 HEAVY BOMBERS WERE CLOAKED AND WAITING?!?! Now, those 10 heavy bombers launch their cap busting bombs against a fleet of battleships and the bs's go POP.
Point being is in creating a large aoe weapon designed to crush supers, you're also leaving smaller vessels susceptible to a much larger explosion as well, and they will die much easier. So the heavy bombs wouldn't be used for supers near as much as they would for any other type of fleet, because they pretty much guarantee decimation.
Now, what other players and I had suggested was another t2 battleship that was based off the tier 3 bs skins. Many people have wanted a t2 tier 3 vessels and cap busting is the perfect use for them.
Basically, you take the tier 3 bs's and give them A QUITE LARGE damage buff, but you also give them a MASSIVE tracking debuff. You also give them a buff towards smart bombs.
The large damage buff and smartbomb buff make them perfect for taking out super carriers, but would require balancing to keep these from being able to simply **** super caps.
The debuff of tracking means they can't really hit bs's for that much damage at all, and you'll be damn lucky if you hit a frig or cruiser.
In order to make a missile cap busting boat, they can take the Rokh and give it a full rack of missile slots, but the ship would have a large debuff towards missile explosion radius.
To make these ships still similar to t1 ships, they would still require tracking and target painters and damage buffs so they couldn't just stack on a massive tank.
The reason why most of us felt that this is a very good idea is because these vessels wouldn't be fleet poppers, but instead would fit perfectly into existing fleets to balance against super caps and titans. These ships would have similar tanks to t1 bs's, but wouldn't be able to do much damage to anything that wasn't a capital ship. So they'd have to bring along frigs, cruisers, bs's, and anything else to make for a balanced fleet. Unless they're doing a suicide gank on a cap fleet.
To make these ships worthy of pvp you have to keep the price down. So I would say that CCP does what they need to do to put these ships in the 200mil range. That's a price that keeps pilots from being able to buy an infinite amount, but reduces the price enough to where it isn't too pricey to risk.
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TheJacobiteHNTR
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Posted - 2011.08.03 21:17:00 -
[22]
Originally by: HELLBOUNDMAN Edited by: HELLBOUNDMAN on 03/08/2011 19:05:15 There's a fatal flaw in your suggestion.
What you're forgetting is that bombs are an aoe weapon. They will damage anything within a certain distance of the explosion. While this would work in theory to take out capital fleets, the usefulness of larger bombs would be taken advantage of.
Suppose a fleet of super carriers warps in and is followed by fleet of enemy heavy bombers. BOOM!, big volley of bombs and super carriers are hurting. Now, a fleet of battleships warps in to defend what's left of the sc's against these heavy bomber, BUT WAIT!!!! WHAT'S THIS?!?! 10 HEAVY BOMBERS WERE CLOAKED AND WAITING?!?! Now, those 10 heavy bombers launch their cap busting bombs against a fleet of battleships and the bs's go POP.
Point being is in creating a large aoe weapon designed to crush supers, you're also leaving smaller vessels susceptible to a much larger explosion as well, and they will die much easier. So the heavy bombs wouldn't be used for supers near as much as they would for any other type of fleet, because they pretty much guarantee decimation.
Now, what other players and I had suggested was another t2 battleship that was based off the tier 3 bs skins. Many people have wanted a t2 tier 3 vessels and cap busting is the perfect use for them.
Basically, you take the tier 3 bs's and give them A QUITE LARGE damage buff, but you also give them a MASSIVE tracking debuff. You also give them a buff towards smart bombs.
The large damage buff and smartbomb buff make them perfect for taking out super carriers, but would require balancing to keep these from being able to simply **** super caps.
The debuff of tracking means they can't really hit bs's for that much damage at all, and you'll be damn lucky if you hit a frig or cruiser.
In order to make a missile cap busting boat, they can take the Rokh and give it a full rack of missile slots, but the ship would have a large debuff towards missile explosion radius.
To make these ships still similar to t1 ships, they would still require tracking and target painters and damage buffs so they couldn't just stack on a massive tank.
The reason why most of us felt that this is a very good idea is because these vessels wouldn't be fleet poppers, but instead would fit perfectly into existing fleets to balance against super caps and titans. These ships would have similar tanks to t1 bs's, but wouldn't be able to do much damage to anything that wasn't a capital ship. So they'd have to bring along frigs, cruisers, bs's, and anything else to make for a balanced fleet. Unless they're doing a suicide gank on a cap fleet.
To make these ships worthy of pvp you have to keep the price down. So I would say that CCP does what they need to do to put these ships in the 200mil range. That's a price that keeps pilots from being able to buy an infinite amount, but reduces the price enough to where it isn't too pricey to risk.
Hi mate, you seemed to have misread my post and the comments below it. The key feature here is the bombs would be sig radius based and likely only be able to hit something as large as a supercap or titan (maybe even sbu's, stations and pos's too.... but thats not what this thread is about)
What you've then described is creating a situation that would lead to a long slog of a fight between supers and your new tiered bs's this would slow large fleet pvp even further and im my opinion a little boring.
With my idea you get a scenario where not only does the black ops become useful again within fleet combat but 1) doesn't require too much of a change (like the introduction of a completely new range of ships) 2) due to the t2 bs configuration atm they are vulnerable to t1 bs fleets which would then mean players would have to come up with new and inventive ways to make their black ops less likely to go pop (possibly by having a SB support fleet) and 3) creates that panic factor everyone loves :)
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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.08.03 21:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: TheJacobiteHNTR
Hi mate, you seemed to have misread my post and the comments below it. The key feature here is the bombs would be sig radius based and likely only be able to hit something as large as a supercap or titan (maybe even sbu's, stations and pos's too.... but thats not what this thread is about)
You're right, I did miss that part
Quote: What you've then described is creating a situation that would lead to a long slog of a fight between supers and your new tiered bs's this would slow large fleet pvp even further and im my opinion a little boring.
Actually, if you think about it, it would speed up large fleet warfare because there would be ships there to quickly and efficiently pop capitals, but these ships would also still be quite weak against other vessels and would die quickly themselves.
I feel with these ships implemented and added to 2 large mixed fleets the battle would end faster than it currently does.
It would also help to solve the capital self destruct for denial of killmails because these ships would have more power in smaller numbers to be able to beat the timer over an equal sized, or even larger fleet of current battleships.
Quote: With my idea you get a scenario where not only does the black ops become useful again within fleet combat but 1) doesn't require too much of a change (like the introduction of a completely new range of ships) 2) due to the t2 bs configuration atm they are vulnerable to t1 bs fleets which would then mean players would have to come up with new and inventive ways to make their black ops less likely to go pop (possibly by having a SB support fleet) and 3) creates that panic factor everyone loves :)
1) These added ships would also not require much change since they're using skins of existing battleships with the same layout and module use(besides making the t2 rokh a missile boat)
2) The way of counteracting the vunlerability of a fleet is by having a mixed fleet.
3) Can you imagine the panic instilled into a super cap pilot when a fleet of cap poppers comes in?
The thing about my ship suggestion is that it solves several wants and concerns of players.
1) restricts capital denial of killmails 2) Balances super caps and titans without have to actually balance the ships themselves. 3) give players t2 tier 3 bs's which a lot of people have asked for. 4) Adds more skills to the game that players may actually want 5) Keeps players from having a super cap/ titan buster that doesn't require any new skills.
There are probably more reasons why these ships would work, but you get the point.
I'm basically combining the need to weaken supercaps/titans without actually weakening them, while at the same time give players more content and items they've wanted.
If balanced properly, the ships will help to keep dreadnaughts for POS bashing.
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TheJacobiteHNTR
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Posted - 2011.08.03 22:39:00 -
[24]
Originally by: HELLBOUNDMAN
Originally by: TheJacobiteHNTR
Hi mate, you seemed to have misread my post and the comments below it. The key feature here is the bombs would be sig radius based and likely only be able to hit something as large as a supercap or titan (maybe even sbu's, stations and pos's too.... but thats not what this thread is about)
You're right, I did miss that part
Quote: What you've then described is creating a situation that would lead to a long slog of a fight between supers and your new tiered bs's this would slow large fleet pvp even further and im my opinion a little boring.
Actually, if you think about it, it would speed up large fleet warfare because there would be ships there to quickly and efficiently pop capitals, but these ships would also still be quite weak against other vessels and would die quickly themselves.
I feel with these ships implemented and added to 2 large mixed fleets the battle would end faster than it currently does.
It would also help to solve the capital self destruct for denial of killmails because these ships would have more power in smaller numbers to be able to beat the timer over an equal sized, or even larger fleet of current battleships.
Quote: With my idea you get a scenario where not only does the black ops become useful again within fleet combat but 1) doesn't require too much of a change (like the introduction of a completely new range of ships) 2) due to the t2 bs configuration atm they are vulnerable to t1 bs fleets which would then mean players would have to come up with new and inventive ways to make their black ops less likely to go pop (possibly by having a SB support fleet) and 3) creates that panic factor everyone loves :)
1) These added ships would also not require much change since they're using skins of existing battleships with the same layout and module use(besides making the t2 rokh a missile boat)
2) The way of counteracting the vunlerability of a fleet is by having a mixed fleet.
3) Can you imagine the panic instilled into a super cap pilot when a fleet of cap poppers comes in?
The thing about my ship suggestion is that it solves several wants and concerns of players.
1) restricts capital denial of killmails 2) Balances super caps and titans without have to actually balance the ships themselves. 3) give players t2 tier 3 bs's which a lot of people have asked for. 4) Adds more skills to the game that players may actually want 5) Keeps players from having a super cap/ titan buster that doesn't require any new skills.
There are probably more reasons why these ships would work, but you get the point.
I'm basically combining the need to weaken supercaps/titans without actually weakening them, while at the same time give players more content and items they've wanted.
If balanced properly, the ships will help to keep dreadnaughts for POS bashing.
ah, I see your point mate. Nice one :)
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Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
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Posted - 2011.08.04 00:48:00 -
[25]
Battleships - especially T2 variants with their weaker tanks - will get chewed up just as quickly by the up-to-25 fighters granted to SCs as dreads do vs. 25 fighterbombers. Also, considering everything appears 5km from the cyno, a remote ECM burst would buy him some precious extra seconds to suffocate your fleet in a thick cloud of fighters before you can even really apply your dps.
I want black ops BS to have a better role in this game. This could be cool if CCP can make the right adjustments (yehrite). |
HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.08.04 01:36:00 -
[26]
It's not that I don't agree with your bomber idea, it's just the fact that I think the bomber idea could be made OP.
Reason why I say it could be made OP is because if you get a good size group of them you could insta pop at least 1 super carrier and they wouldn't have a chance to battle.
Now making them black ops would mean they could cloak which would make them even more powerful.
The reason why I lean more towards my suggestion is because most pvp'ers won't use a highly expensive ship with a not so good tank and not so good against other ship types.
Now, I'm not saying your idea is bad, I just feel that it would be certain to have some sort of balancing issue such as insta popping super carriers and/or POS's.
But I also feel that CCP wouldn't implement a ship that uses mostly already existing skills.
Now, my suggestion would be like a tackle frig. Designed to do something specific that can be powerful, but weak against certain things.
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HELLBOUNDMAN
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Posted - 2011.08.04 16:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Aloe Cloveris Battleships - especially T2 variants with their weaker tanks - will get chewed up just as quickly by the up-to-25 fighters granted to SCs as dreads do vs. 25 fighterbombers. Also, considering everything appears 5km from the cyno, a remote ECM burst would buy him some precious extra seconds to suffocate your fleet in a thick cloud of fighters before you can even really apply your dps.
I want black ops BS to have a better role in this game. This could be cool if CCP can make the right adjustments (yehrite).
If you go with my t2 tier 3 suggestion, then they'll have a buff to smart bombs, so fighters and fighter bombers will be much easier to deal with, as well as dealing with the super carrier itself
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.04 19:07:00 -
[28]
OP you have almost no experience in 0.0 fights, let alone super cap fights do you?
If the normal subcap fleet can **** the Black Ops fleet before it can kill the super caps, what is stopping the Supercaps from simply raping the BLack Ops bombers themselves? Thats the problem with supers, not that they can't be killed, but that they can kill everything. Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
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Posted - 2011.08.04 19:47:00 -
[29]
I think it's a cool idea, I love the rock paper scissors--"triangle" as you called it. But the problem remains that carriers and supercarriers pwn too hard.
I think carriers and supercarriers (especially supercarriers) should be defensive craft. They should be able to beat the crap out of something attacking them, but they shouldn't be good at leading an offense. I think that's potentially where the line of thought should be moving.
Here's a possibility: Make fighters and fighter bombers into response craft that have a mind of their own. You can't tell them to attack, rather they will automatically attack anything that attacks their parent craft. Instead, carriers make great triage craft and supercarriers are excellent fleet boosters. Also, the carriers could use their fighters when a triage module is active, since they are now defensive units anyway.
Pros: No more hotdropping supercarriers or carrier docking games. You can still hotdrop titans though. (why not?)
Cons: Might make it more awkward to rat in a carrier. ("come on rats, attack me already! ...just 20 more km before I reach aggro range...") Of course, you could just put a target painter on and use that to aggro them.
Could maybe add a fighter siege module for carriers--when activated it boosts fighter damage a bit and allows them to be controlled, but reduces their tracking such that they can't easily hit a moving battleship anymore. Also decreases their speed and increases sig radius, HP, and range. Wouldn't make them compete with a dreadnought, but they could be a more middle-ground strategic siege unit. They would do decent damage to installations, but they could also destroy a webbed and target painted battleship pretty easily, and the carrier could have a triage module also fitted, allowing it to go to logistics mode at a moment's notice (or whenever the drone siege module finishes its cycle). --
Thousand Papercuts Project |
TheJacobiteHNTR
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Posted - 2011.08.05 17:09:00 -
[30]
Edited by: TheJacobiteHNTR on 05/08/2011 17:11:47
Originally by: Magnus Orin OP you have almost no experience in 0.0 fights, let alone super cap fights do you?
If the normal subcap fleet can **** the Black Ops fleet before it can kill the super caps, what is stopping the Supercaps from simply raping the BLack Ops bombers themselves? Thats the problem with supers, not that they can't be killed, but that they can kill everything.
Hi mate,
This is a neutral alt I'd rather use to keep the post more about the idea and less about which alliances I have been in the past but I have had my fair share of experience in some of the largest alliances' leadership and been in countless 0.0 fleet battles involving caps, supercaps and all forms of fleets used in 0.0 so I'm not inexperienced and It's not a surprise a comment like that came from a member of the Goons.
As for answering your question. If you read the OP I mention that statistics of ships would have to be thought about. So, rather than an attempt to discredit the OP why not try a constructive solution to the problem your stating.
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