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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.03 13:58:00 -
[1]
After much discussion with Wedding Peach, I present a possible ship idea for a dedicated gas cloud harvester.
Originally by: Gas Cloud Harvester (Name to be determined)
Special Ability: 100% bonus to yield of Gas Cloud Harvesters.
Ore Industrial Skill Bonus: 10% reduction to Gas Cloud Harvester cycle time per level.
4 High Slots, 2 Turret Hardpoints 2 Mid Slots 2 Low Slots 3 Upgrade Hardpoints Rig Size Medium
250m3 Cargo Capacity 5000m3 Gas Cloud Capacity 25m3 Drone Capacity, 25mbit/sec Bandwidth
Primary Skill Required: ORE Industrial Level I Secondary Skill Required: Science Level I Tertiary Skill Required: Gas Cloud Harvesting III
This ship focuses on being fast at what it does. While it could be used for gas cloud harvesting in wormholes, its primary focus is to help gas cloud harvesters in the booster production industry. With this in mind, its gas cloud bay can essentially hold 500 units of gas.
The bonus to gas cloud harvester yield is to help minimize the turrets needed so that utility modules may be used (cloak/probe launcher) while the reduction in cycle time bonus is to help make the work faster (and thus help the pilot quickly extract himself from potentially hostile areas).
This shipÆs design comes from an industrial point of view, however it was designed to be able to move quickly in potentially hostile areas. Thus, its agility and mass would be similar to that of blockade runners, however it will not have the covert ops cloaking device. If caught though, the ship has little to no tanking ability.
Thoughts?
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Substantia Nigra
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Posted - 2011.08.03 21:27:00 -
[2]
Originally by: XXSketchxx I present a possible ship idea for a dedicated gas cloud harvester ... Thoughts?
Our dedicated gas-hurricanes do the job reasonably well, with around 2k cargohold space and orca boosts speeding the tedious job a little, but your little beastie would certainly speed things up for us. ItÆs been a little while but IÆm not sure that 5k cargo would be enough for all the w-space ladar sites (two gas types per site), although I guess itÆs enough for the ones youÆre dealing with à so I expect, even with your idea implemented, weÆd still be jet-canning and picking up with orca / haulers.
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Planetary Genocide
Gallente White Sail Anarchists Yarr Collective
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Posted - 2011.08.04 09:53:00 -
[3]
No to the dedicated gas bay. What's the ****ing point? Just give it a mining-barge-sized hold and let them cargo expand it, less structure means easier ganks anyways.
Other than that, I agree that the ship is sorely needed.
Though I don't see the reason for having utility highs on such a thing, just give it three highs, turret slots, done. Gets you more gas yield than a regular ship (since with the 100% bonus, you have the equivalent of 6 harvesters running with a 50% time reduction bonus as opposed to Gas-canes or gas-rax's that have 5 harvesters running).
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.04 13:31:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Planetary Genocide No to the dedicated gas bay. What's the ****ing point? Just give it a mining-barge-sized hold and let them cargo expand it, less structure means easier ganks anyways.
Other than that, I agree that the ship is sorely needed.
Though I don't see the reason for having utility highs on such a thing, just give it three highs, turret slots, done. Gets you more gas yield than a regular ship (since with the 100% bonus, you have the equivalent of 6 harvesters running with a 50% time reduction bonus as opposed to Gas-canes or gas-rax's that have 5 harvesters running).
The point of a gas bay is so that the ship does not turn into a glorified hauler. Its purpose is to move large amounts of gas. Nothing else.
The purpose of utility highs is so that it can 1. operate in low sec (cloak) and 2. actually find the sites without needing a dedicated prober to do it for it.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.05 22:41:00 -
[5]
Bump for more discussion.
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Savage Breed
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Posted - 2011.08.06 01:05:00 -
[6]
The ship should have at least five high slots, 6 would be better for an added utility slot because with max skills a pilot can fit five harvesters.
In principle, I like the idea of a gas mining ship, maybe even in a Noctis hull. But I'd rather the devs spend their man hours on a general reballence of existing of existing ship types, especially since BC's do the job so well now.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.06 01:40:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Savage Breed The ship should have at least five high slots, 6 would be better for an added utility slot because with max skills a pilot can fit five harvesters.
In principle, I like the idea of a gas mining ship, maybe even in a Noctis hull. But I'd rather the devs spend their man hours on a general reballence of existing of existing ship types, especially since BC's do the job so well now.
Read the ship bonus. 100% increase in yield and 50% reduction in cycle time at level 5. This essentially equates to almost 5 harvesters.
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Savage Breed
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Posted - 2011.08.06 06:41:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Savage Breed on 06/08/2011 06:42:26
Originally by: XXSketchxx Read the ship bonus. 100% increase in yield and 50% reduction in cycle time at level 5. This essentially equates to almost 5 harvesters.
Sure! lets read the description, then let's do some math.
100% increase in yield is the same as *2. 4*2=8. I don't know what 'essentially' means to you, but 8 is not essentially 5.
Further more, at level 5, the description has the harvesters cycling in half the time. That's twice as much (*2) yield/hr.
(4*2)*2 = 16
So 'essentially' this description has a ship that mines the equivalent of a ship with 16 harvesters. Four harvesters mining twice as much, twice as fast. That's too much. You can't build a gas mining ship and give it bonus's similar to conventional mining ships because mining lasers and gas harvesters are two different beasts.
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Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
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Posted - 2011.08.06 09:59:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim on 06/08/2011 10:01:33 It would need to require gas harvesting 4, since it can fit 2 gas cloud harvesters at double yield. This would allow someone with the skill less than 4 to harvest as if their skill was at 4.
Also I think the cycle time reduction is too high. At ore industrial 5, it'll have the gas harvesting output of 8 gas harvesting modules. While a ship like that is reasonable, it should require more skills to fly at such a level.
Perhaps you could add a skill that has an additional impact in gas harvest amount, and reduce the ship bonus to -5%. Then you might adjust the flat bonus from +100% to +110% to balance it and make sure it's actually mining at least as fast as a non-specialized ship.
-edit- maybe you could set the bonus to -8% cycle time. that seems like a reasonable value, even though it's an arbitrary number. --
Thousand Papercuts Project |
XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.06 15:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Savage Breed Edited by: Savage Breed on 06/08/2011 06:42:26
Originally by: XXSketchxx Read the ship bonus. 100% increase in yield and 50% reduction in cycle time at level 5. This essentially equates to almost 5 harvesters.
Sure! lets read the description, then let's do some math.
100% increase in yield is the same as *2. 4*2=8. I don't know what 'essentially' means to you, but 8 is not essentially 5.
Further more, at level 5, the description has the harvesters cycling in half the time. That's twice as much (*2) yield/hr.
(4*2)*2 = 16
So 'essentially' this description has a ship that mines the equivalent of a ship with 16 harvesters. Four harvesters mining twice as much, twice as fast. That's too much. You can't build a gas mining ship and give it bonus's similar to conventional mining ships because mining lasers and gas harvesters are two different beasts.
No need to be a prick and your math is wrong. Mine was as well I believe, but its definitely not 16 harvesters.
100% increase means double, thus if there are 2 harvesters, they will harvest as much as 4. The reduction in time is off though and I need to rethink that.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.06 15:17:00 -
[11]
Tertiary Skill Requirement changed to Gas Cloud Harvest V. Ore Industrial Skill Bonus changed to 5% reduction to Gas Cloud Harvester cycle time per level.
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Xavier Liche
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Posted - 2011.08.06 16:37:00 -
[12]
Originally by: XXSketchxx
Originally by: Planetary Genocide No to the dedicated gas bay. What's the ****ing point? Just give it a mining-barge-sized hold and let them cargo expand it, less structure means easier ganks anyways.
Other than that, I agree that the ship is sorely needed.
Though I don't see the reason for having utility highs on such a thing, just give it three highs, turret slots, done. Gets you more gas yield than a regular ship (since with the 100% bonus, you have the equivalent of 6 harvesters running with a 50% time reduction bonus as opposed to Gas-canes or gas-rax's that have 5 harvesters running).
The point of a gas bay is so that the ship does not turn into a glorified hauler. Its purpose is to move large amounts of gas. Nothing else.
The purpose of utility highs is so that it can 1. operate in low sec (cloak) and 2. actually find the sites without needing a dedicated prober to do it for it.
Agreed with your OP and this response. Giving the ship excessive turrent points like some are suggestion is not good IMHO, the price of gas is low anyway, lets not make it worse by allowing a cloud to be sucked out in 5 minutes. All that does is support hi sec afkers.
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Jack Tronic
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Posted - 2011.08.06 16:53:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jack Tronic on 06/08/2011 16:53:57 Edited by: Jack Tronic on 06/08/2011 16:53:39 It'll be given low sensor strength however like all industrials. Low sensor strength means its harder to trololol it's signature size when probing. A Moa with 3 ECCM mods is very difficult to probe out already and hence one of the most superior cruisers to use. Sure the hostiles will probe you out eventually, but it will literally give you 30 seconds or more extra in gtfo time.
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XXSketchxx
Gallente Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.06 17:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jack Tronic Edited by: Jack Tronic on 06/08/2011 16:53:57 Edited by: Jack Tronic on 06/08/2011 16:53:39 It'll be given low sensor strength however like all industrials. Low sensor strength means its harder to trololol it's signature size when probing. A Moa with 3 ECCM mods is very difficult to probe out already and hence one of the most superior cruisers to use. Sure the hostiles will probe you out eventually, but it will literally give you 30 seconds or more extra in gtfo time.
I agree it should be naturally difficult to probe, however I believe you have it wrong (or made a typo). The sensor strength needs to be higher, signature size lower .
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Emperor Salazar
Caldari Remote Soviet Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.12 16:53:00 -
[15]
Bump
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