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Ethan Lang
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Posted - 2011.08.04 23:45:00 -
[1]
Perhaps there should be Defensive Weapon slots on the larger ships. Useable only for defensive weapon modules. A "Defensive weapon" could be any turret or launcher 2 size catagories smaller than what your ship is capable of equiping. For example Battleships would be able to equip a few small size turrets and/or launchers. The number would vary depending on ship model. This wouldn't add any drastic amount of dps but would give larger ships an answer to smaller ships other than just drones. Perhaps relegate defender missiles to this slot as well. Real world battle ships and carriers are brimming with smaller weapon systems to handle incoming fast movers like aircraft or attack boats.
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jitabug2
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Posted - 2011.08.05 01:05:00 -
[2]
This is what your support ships are for it is a mmo after all and if your going solo in a BS these days well i think something is up.
Also there are these things called drones and energy nutes too you could even include smartbombs on that list
OH PS. you can already fit small guns on your BS if you really want to.
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Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
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Posted - 2011.08.05 02:08:00 -
[3]
I see where you're coming from, but you also have to realize that real world battleships are operated by lots of people. They're also extremely expensive.
In order to implement that idea, CCP would have to make battleships and capital ships require multiple pilots to fly, and they would have to be a lot more expensive to build and maintain. I'm not against the idea, but at this point in the game it's not going to happen. --
Thousand Papercuts Project |
Monstress
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Posted - 2011.08.05 02:19:00 -
[4]
I don't think giving battleships the ability to defend themselves against frigates using a specific module designed for the purpose is quite the right approach.
I think that if you get yourself into a situation where you are tackled by a frigate and unable to defend yourself (maybe he shot all your drones?) it's your own fault.
There's no valid reasoning as to why you would allow your defenseless battleship get tackled, unless you're with a group of people in which case you should have support as someone mentioned. If you still lose your ship in this situation to an enemy fleet, well that's beyond the whole frigate issue.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2011.08.05 02:34:00 -
[5]
Edited by: ShahFluffers on 05/08/2011 02:35:24
The problem here is why would you fly any other ship class when you can "do it all" in a single ship? Big ships are supposed to have some issues dealing with smaller ships and small ships live on the "edge" when dealing with bigger ships (one wrong move and "poof"). It's all done in the name of "game balance."
As far as the multiple ships idea... it's been brought up many times before and it always runs into the same problem; the database doesn't like multiple players in the same ship. CCP would have to rewrite the entire coding base of the game to make this a reality.
edit: another issue is that unlike RL, cost is NOT an issue in-game. It's easy to sc**** up enough ISK to purchase a battleship... especially if you don't buy anything else under the idea that they are all obsoleted by a single ship that can do what they do and then some. _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Ethan Lang
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Posted - 2011.08.05 02:53:00 -
[6]
Whoa whoa whoa, I'm not saying larger ships should easily take down a frigate. A one ship fits all approach would kill game balance and diversity. I said a SMALL amount of defensive weapons. Like 2 small turrets, with no bonuses. Not exactly a Doomsday.
What I'm saying is, as someone who spent a lot of time in a frigate early on, I never really found a BS to be particularly frightening. And now that I'm fitting out a BS, I find myself trying to figure out ways of dealing with smaller ships and the answers are limited. Yes, some ships have the flexibility to fit a smart bomb or nuet, but some don't. Some also don't have a particularly effective drone capability.
Tackling a BS in something small and fast enough isn't exactly life threatening. They are big, they are expensive, they take a bit more SP to fly than a frig. They shouldn't find a two week old pilot in a cheaply fit frig as problematic as they do. Should they one shot small fast ships? No. Hell no. But that little frigate should be taking damage, and be sweating a bit more while his friends try to burn down the battelship before the battleship burns him.
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Reaver Glitterstim
Legio Geminatus
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Posted - 2011.08.05 03:03:00 -
[7]
That's what drones are for. If your large drones aren't hitting him, use medium or small ones. Just have a few of those tucked away in your drone bay for a pesky frigate that won't die. You probably need them for frigate rats anyway.
And no battleship should ever go around solo without a web and/or target painter, and a few small drones. --
Thousand Papercuts Project |
Monstress
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Posted - 2011.08.05 03:05:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Ethan Lang Whoa whoa whoa, I'm not saying larger ships should easily take down a frigate. A one ship fits all approach would kill game balance and diversity. I said a SMALL amount of defensive weapons. Like 2 small turrets, with no bonuses. Not exactly a Doomsday.
What I'm saying is, as someone who spent a lot of time in a frigate early on, I never really found a BS to be particularly frightening. And now that I'm fitting out a BS, I find myself trying to figure out ways of dealing with smaller ships and the answers are limited. Yes, some ships have the flexibility to fit a smart bomb or nuet, but some don't. Some also don't have a particularly effective drone capability.
Tackling a BS in something small and fast enough isn't exactly life threatening. They are big, they are expensive, they take a bit more SP to fly than a frig. They shouldn't find a two week old pilot in a cheaply fit frig as problematic as they do. Should they one shot small fast ships? No. Hell no. But that little frigate should be taking damage, and be sweating a bit more while his friends try to burn down the battelship before the battleship burns him.
Fit small guns, web and lots of light drones.
What I'm curious about is how do you end up in this situation? Are you by yourself in a battleship going through hostile space (whether it be during a wardec, lowsec or 0.0)?
I think these are very important questions to answer before justifying the necessity of this special module.
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Ethan Lang
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Posted - 2011.08.05 03:47:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Monstress
Originally by: Ethan Lang Whoa whoa whoa, I'm not saying larger ships should easily take down a frigate. A one ship fits all approach would kill game balance and diversity. I said a SMALL amount of defensive weapons. Like 2 small turrets, with no bonuses. Not exactly a Doomsday.
What I'm saying is, as someone who spent a lot of time in a frigate early on, I never really found a BS to be particularly frightening. And now that I'm fitting out a BS, I find myself trying to figure out ways of dealing with smaller ships and the answers are limited. Yes, some ships have the flexibility to fit a smart bomb or nuet, but some don't. Some also don't have a particularly effective drone capability.
Tackling a BS in something small and fast enough isn't exactly life threatening. They are big, they are expensive, they take a bit more SP to fly than a frig. They shouldn't find a two week old pilot in a cheaply fit frig as problematic as they do. Should they one shot small fast ships? No. Hell no. But that little frigate should be taking damage, and be sweating a bit more while his friends try to burn down the battelship before the battleship burns him.
Fit small guns, web and lots of light drones.
What I'm curious about is how do you end up in this situation? Are you by yourself in a battleship going through hostile space (whether it be during a wardec, lowsec or 0.0)?
I think these are very important questions to answer before justifying the necessity of this special module.
I actually haven't found myself in this situation. Nor do I plan on it. I just find it strange that the greateset threat to a BS is a ship a fraction of its size and capabilities.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2011.08.05 05:29:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Ethan Lang I just find it strange that the greateset threat to a BS is a ship a fraction of its size and capabilities.
Hence the need (see: "recommendation") for large ships with great damage and utility capabilities to have some sort of "support" when it flies around. It acts as a simple balancing mechanism that encourages players to seek the help of others... which more often than not are the newbies who start out flying frigates and other small ships that can more easily fend off opposing small ships. _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
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Ethan Lang
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Posted - 2011.08.05 06:00:00 -
[11]
I think maybe people are misunderstanding me. I don't want a BS to simply slap away a frigate with impunity. I just want more options for handling them then drones, drones, and more drones. A couple of small turrets or rocket launchers with no ship bonus isn't going to one shot a frig out of the sky, but it might give the pilot pause, and something besides drones to worry about. Battleships are the only combat vessel I can think of that can be severely threatened by both smaller AND bigger hulled ships. They run across something bigger, they are in trouble. Run across something much smaller, still in trouble.
I'm not writing this as a BS pilot. I'm writing this as a frigate pilot who always thought a Battleship should have been a more daunting proposition.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2011.08.05 06:40:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Ethan Lang I think maybe people are misunderstanding me. I don't want a BS to simply slap away a frigate with impunity. I just want more options for handling them then drones, drones, and more drones. A couple of small turrets or rocket launchers with no ship bonus isn't going to one shot a frig out of the sky, but it might give the pilot pause, and something besides drones to worry about. Battleships are the only combat vessel I can think of that can be severely threatened by both smaller AND bigger hulled ships. They run across something bigger, they are in trouble. Run across something much smaller, still in trouble.
I'm not writing this as a BS pilot. I'm writing this as a frigate pilot who always thought a Battleship should have been a more daunting proposition.
You're missing the point I was trying to make... battleships are the way they are so that they [more or less] NEED a small ship or two to run as "point defense." As far as having trouble against "bigger ships"... dreadnaughts can't hit them while they are moving (even at their laughably slow speed) and carriers, while they can exact a fair bit of damage, can't really swat one off before back-up arrives (pretty much the same way a battleship can't easily swat off a frigate).
My recommendation is to look into heavy energy neutralizers. They "hit out" to about 24kms and will absolutely ruin the capacitor of any frigate in about 1 or two cycles (exception: the frigate is packing a capacitor booster). And yes, it does take up a high-slot that, on some ships, could be used to fit a weapon... but then that's the trade-off one must make. Webs are also a nice thing to have against those frigs that go "under the guns." But they take up a mid slot, which some ships tend to lack a bit. Again, trade-offs. _______________________
"Just because I seem like an idiot doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.08.05 11:48:00 -
[13]
smartbombs, energy neutralizers, drones, webs, target painters, tracking computers are all good tools to make you rmore effective against smaller vehicles...
If the bigger ships got even better against smaller ships why would anyone fly them? In Eve the biggest ships isn't necesarily the best ship. -
I'm a nice guy!! But plz hook me up with some pew pew... |
Flynn Fetladral
Royal Order of Security Specialists
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Posted - 2011.08.05 13:26:00 -
[14]
A rock paper scissors game is not much fun when every ship is all three or even two of these at once. Furthermore, knocking out incoming DPS is pretty game changing, screwing up what balance there is between the ship classes.
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Ethan Lang
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Posted - 2011.08.05 15:46:00 -
[15]
huh, ok. Guess I am the only one who thinks BS's are laughable and need the help. Ah well.
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Sekket
Caldari White-Noise
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Posted - 2011.08.05 16:08:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ethan Lang huh, ok. Guess I am the only one who thinks BS's are laughable and need the help. Ah well.
I'm with you, but it seems the majority of the player base is not.
I think the solution would be to make some L size weapons that represent a group of smaller guns, or a group of smaller launchers. It could be accomplished by giving the weapon the stats of the smaller weapon but multiplying the rate of fire. So you could have a module like 150mm Railgun Group L that has the stats of a 150mm railgun but 4x the rate of fire. Seems like a fair trade-off for a battleship size high slot.
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Velicitia
Gallente Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.08.05 16:08:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Ethan Lang huh, ok. Guess I am the only one who thinks BS's are laughable and need the help. Ah well.
no... we just use the tools available to us... such as a fleet. =========================
Originally by: CCP Games, 2010 Creation is so precious; and greed, so destructive. Your choices can make a diference
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