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jokersmasque
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Posted - 2011.08.08 22:30:00 -
[1]
i've been seeing alot of confusing information. how can you get a tech 2 BPO? i'm seeing some places that you can use invention, others say you can only buy from players. so does anyone know for certain, how you can get tech 2 BPO? Thanks in advance
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Matalino
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Posted - 2011.08.08 22:32:00 -
[2]
You can only buy Tech 2 BPO's from other players.
Tech 2 BPC's can be produced through invention.
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onyx dragoon
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Posted - 2011.08.08 22:38:00 -
[3]
thanks Matalino!
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jokersmasque
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Posted - 2011.08.08 22:42:00 -
[4]
Thank you, Matalino, now i can stop pulling my hair out
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Vuiko Tarasovich
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Posted - 2011.08.08 23:15:00 -
[5]
good luck getting a T2 bpo though... they're quite rare and i think 99.99999% of them are controlled by the nullsec alliances.
invention is the way to go in order to produce T2 stuff.
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jokersmasque
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Posted - 2011.08.09 00:09:00 -
[6]
yeah that's what i thought
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foksieloy
Minmatar Rockets ponies and rainbows
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Posted - 2011.08.09 05:51:00 -
[7]
You can get a T2 BPO if you are willing to pay. Price is equal to about 5 year return of investment (aka you need to use it every day, non-stop, for 5 years before you break even). _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Jill Veli
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Posted - 2011.08.09 07:30:00 -
[8]
I think this is bull. They have a clear advantage over people who have to go through all the work to make T2 things.
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Velicitia
Gallente Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.08.09 08:38:00 -
[9]
oh, jesus christ... not another "T2 BPOs are unfair" thread.
They're not unbalanced -- primarily they're used in the **** modules that are too expensive to manufacture via invention.
stuff like the hulk (with a bazillion people inventing) is profitable to manufacture off T2 BPC.
No, I don't own any T2 BPO, and I have to buy BPC off contract if I want to use them still. =========================
Originally by: CCP Games, 2010 Creation is so precious; and greed, so destructive. Your choices can make a diference
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.08.09 11:46:00 -
[10]
Why you should not mind that T2 BPOs exist but you can't get NEW ones. _
Akita T USEFUL EVE LINKS collection |
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KaarBaak
Minmatar Seatec Astronomy
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Posted - 2011.08.10 00:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: foksieloy You can get a T2 BPO if you are willing to pay. Price is equal to about 5 year return of investment (aka you need to use it every day, non-stop, for 5 years before you break even).
With all due respect, I don't think you understand how a business works.
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
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Jill Veli
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Posted - 2011.08.10 02:50:00 -
[12]
I do not support removal of existing BPOs as much, but I think the system is flawed. A good fix would be to add research capabilities to the BPCs for material and time. With that a character should retain the knowledge they learned researching for use with future BPC's. Fixes like that adding to the game would work too.
Right now you learn how to handle BP's with researching them and using them. Then when you get to T2 you almost take a step back to some janky hard to work with pieces that are more about grunt work and less about the "inventor" doing anything worth doing.
What makes a player enjoy a game is choice. I feel like the current system has removed choices from the newer players thus making the game less fun. This all goes back to the NPE. Eve should never be mindless.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.08.10 04:06:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Akita T on 10/08/2011 04:11:36
Originally by: Jill Veli A good fix would be to add research capabilities to the BPCs for material and time. With that a character should retain the knowledge they learned researching for use with future BPC's. Fixes like that adding to the game would work too.
The end effect would be that only those who bother with any "invention improvements" would, over time, be the only ones left being able to make ANY profit whatsoever from invention, slamming the door shut on any newcomers.
Unlike T2 BPOs, which have a limited maximum count (so for "in heavy demand" items there's always SOME market share left for even the newbiest of inventors), this "gradual permanent improvement of invention parameters" would sooner rather than later saturate the entire market share, even to the point where T2 BPOs also barely make any profit. At the same time, since T2 stuff would tend to become more plentiful (as "maxed-out inventors" with all those permanent improvements would almost directly compete with T2 BPO owners, the only difference being invention consumables, and they WILL be pushing out far more BPCs than they can build from since they want to maximize revenue, flooding the contracts with cheap BPCs anybody can build from), you'd think prices would go down... and while they might barely noticeably go down (at least temporarily), in the long run, they will almost certainly return to near-current values, thanks to all moon minerals becoming more expensive because THAT is the real bottleneck right now.
Overall, I would say the solution is worse than the problem. That "fix" essentially makes T2 BPOs borderline meaningless while NOT making invention as a whole noticeably more profitable while ALSO denying new inventors entry to the profitable section until they match the effort of older inventors, and at the same time making the moon mineral balance issue even more drastic than it already is.
I know you most likely meant well, but you should be aware of the unpleasant consequences of any change you might want to make. ANY change that improves invention efficiency will not (in the long run) make invention more profitable, but will actually most likely have the exact opposite effect (either making it less profitable, or maintaining overall profitability levels but for less people), with the only real beneficiaries being rare moon mineral owners.
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Akita T USEFUL EVE LINKS collection |
foksieloy
Minmatar Rockets ponies and rainbows
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Posted - 2011.08.10 05:52:00 -
[14]
Originally by: KaarBaak With all due respect, I don't think you understand how a business works.
I would say it seems it is that way for you. Please point out why it is that way for me instead. _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.08.10 06:08:00 -
[15]
Originally by: foksieloy
Originally by: KaarBaak
Originally by: foksieloy You can get a T2 BPO if you are willing to pay.Price is equal to about 5 year return of investment (aka you need to use it every day, non-stop, for 5 years before you break even).
With all due respect, I don't think you understand how a business works.
I would say it seems it is that way for you. Please point out why it is that way for me instead.
Well, you both have a point in some way, but the hostile tone was not exactly warranted.
On one hand, it is true that a lot of T2 BPOs would need roughly 3 to 10 years (with 4-5 being about the norm, and in some cases, even more than 10 years would be necessary) to reach a point where raw profits are roughly equal to the purchase cost of the T2 BPO (or, in other words, a 1.6-2% RoI).
On the other hand, you can usually manage to sell the T2 BPO for roughly as much as you bought it for (if not even higher), so the "years" estimate is only useful in the sense that it conveys the RoI-for-manufacture part in a more easily understandable//relateable format (while ignoring the "collector item value appreciation" RoI part). You don't need to "break even", if you purchase the BPO with the full intent to sell it later, or just purchase it with the initial intent of selling it off at a higher price as soon as possible, and just put it into production to extract some extra value out of it.
On the gripping hand, however, a 2% RoI is pretty damn low, and quite a few other more approachable and widely available investments have a better RoI (even supercapital copy creation businesses still have a better RoI, AFAIK, and that requires far less work than manufacturing from a "valuable" T2 ship BPO), so there is very little incentive to go with a T2 BPO as an investment instead of quite a few of the other available options in that rough price range. Granted, the supercap copy business example might suffer a big hit as soon as CCP rolls out a supercapital nerf (if//when that happens), but that's not the only available opportunity, and it could still have a slightly better RoI than most T2 BPOs even afterwards.
So, you know, it's more complicated _
Akita T USEFUL EVE LINKS collection |
foksieloy
Minmatar Rockets ponies and rainbows
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Posted - 2011.08.10 06:28:00 -
[16]
I am perfectly aware of the T2 BPO details.
Additionally: there is also a risk of T2 BPO value dropping suddenly due to manufacture cost/module attributes/named or faction drop rate change.
It happened to my friend when the price of some of his T2 BPO halved overnight due to a patch changing drop rates of named and faction and manufacture cost of certain items. _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Thornat
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Posted - 2011.08.10 08:02:00 -
[17]
Originally by: foksieloy I am perfectly aware of the T2 BPO details.
Additionally: there is also a risk of T2 BPO value dropping suddenly due to manufacture cost/module attributes/named or faction drop rate change.
It happened to my friend when the price of some of his T2 BPO halved overnight due to a patch changing drop rates of named and faction and manufacture cost of certain items.
Ya T2 BPO's are not the I win button people make them out to be. I played this game back when they where still giving them out as well as I aquired a couple in the course of the game. To be honest with you, while they do turn a profit, in as a whole over time since invention came out I find the invention system to actually be more profitable simply because you have a choice which markets to get into where in the T2 BPO's I have as the market changed most of the these BPO's really aren't even worth building anymore as the margins are too tight between build costs and sales profits.
The only real advantage of having a T2 BPO's is the false impression that they are such a huge advantage which means I should be able to sell them for a huge profit, however as mentioned the people who could afford these know they are not worth buying so actually they aren't that easy to sell at the ridiculous prices people "think" they should be sold at.
I keep them, occassionally use them.. .but its not the cash cow people think they are unless you are lucky enough to have one that is actually marketable.
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Baneken
Gallente The New Knighthood Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.08.10 14:51:00 -
[18]
Only problem with T2 BPO/BPC is that people still cannot count 1+1
Just take a look at T2 Armour rigs(like trimark) and you'll notice that about 100% either have vastly superior T2 PBO or they like losing 100mis for each rigs that they sell ... Same goes for a lot of T2 ship blue prints you get from invention, though situation is sometimes even worse for T1 items as well.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Matalino
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Posted - 2011.08.10 15:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Baneken Only problem with T2 BPO/BPC is that people still cannot count 1+1
Just take a look at T2 Armour rigs(like trimark) and you'll notice that about 100% either have vastly superior T2 PBO or they like losing 100mis for each rigs that they sell ...
Are you aware of the fact that there are no T2 rig BPO's in the game?
Rigs were introduced in the same expansion as invention. The Tech2 BPO's for rigs were never seeded.
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Llambda
Space Llama Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.10 16:04:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Llambda on 10/08/2011 16:07:08
Originally by: Baneken Only problem with T2 BPO/BPC is that people still cannot count 1+1
Just take a look at T2 Armour rigs(like trimark) and you'll notice that about 100% either have vastly superior T2 PBO or they like losing 100mis for each rigs that they sell ...
*Sigh* Are you a moron in real life, or do you just play one on the internet? There are NO T2 rig BPOs in the game, and it's actually quite possible to turn a profit off of T2 rigs like trimarks. Your delusional sense of superiority has apparently interfered with your ability to take all factors into account.
Whenever you encounter hundreds of other people doing something that doesn't seem to make any sense at all, do yourself a favor and entertain the notion that maybe - just maybe - they're not all idiots, and that it is you, in fact, who is missing something.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.08.10 17:57:00 -
[21]
T2 rig BPOs do not exist. However, ME:0 T2 (large?) rig BPCs do drop in exploration content. _
Akita T USEFUL EVE LINKS collection |
Jill Veli
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Posted - 2011.08.12 07:15:00 -
[22]
I think this is totaly off topic from the op at this point. I do understand what you are saying about rise in supply creating a drop in price. I just feel like T2 is a step back in the grand scheme of things. Inventing is not really valid anymore, but a "passive" income that alot of people get. I do understand that the value of stuff can flux, I was in null for the the recent nerf...my home became almost worthless.
My position is still valid: Currently there is an advantage for those that had access to the BPO's that make new inventors signifigantly less profitable then thier BPO holding competition.
I would like to see a choice driven means to close the gap when a player wants to put time and energy into being good at anything in this game. Life is change and when anything or anyone ceases the latter the former is forfeit.
With that said I still respect the opposing opinion and do not wish to squelch it in any way. Disagreement is the catalyst for growth and our conversation is a seed that may or may not come to be anything worth being.
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foksieloy
Minmatar Rockets ponies and rainbows
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Posted - 2011.08.12 08:30:00 -
[23]
If you were to remove T2 BPO tomorrow, the price would remain, and profit margin would remain, because it has always been dictated by the inventors except in the case of some rarely used modules. _______________________ The best thing in EvE is Barrage M. |
Vinita Queen
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Posted - 2011.08.12 10:30:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Vinita Queen on 12/08/2011 10:33:28 If the BPO's offer no advantage then removing them or making them a BPC wont matter. If they do offer an advantage then for the sake of the integrity of the core of the game they need to go, or be allowed to return.
Anything else is a crock of horses-hit.
And the whole "it'll take you 5 years to make your money back", laughable, as not everyone paid obscene for their t2bpos.
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Velicitia
Gallente Open Designs
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Posted - 2011.08.12 10:54:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Vinita Queen Edited by: Vinita Queen on 12/08/2011 10:33:28 If the BPO's offer no advantage then removing them or making them a BPC wont matter. If they do offer an advantage then for the sake of the integrity of the core of the game they need to go, or be allowed to return.
Anything else is a crock of horses-hit.
And the whole "it'll take you 5 years to make your money back", laughable, as not everyone paid obscene for their t2bpos.
They offer no advantage for the most part (e.g. hulks). They *do* however offer an "advantage" in the modules that are just too damn expensive to invent (you do like cheap stuff, yeah?).
I don't own any T2 BPOs, but I don't consider them to be an 'unfair advantage' to the players who have bought them (also, picking up ME100 BPCs on contract is nice).
This debate will probably still be raging after T3 becomes the de facto standard...
=========================
Originally by: CCP Games, 2010 Creation is so precious; and greed, so destructive. Your choices can make a diference
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2011.08.12 11:34:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Akita T on 12/08/2011 11:35:30
Originally by: Vinita Queen If the BPO's offer no advantage then removing them or making them a BPC wont matter. If they do offer an advantage then for the sake of the integrity of the core of the game they need to go, or be allowed to return. Anything else is a crock of horses-hit.
T2 BPOs have become mainly investment tools rather than industrialist tools. Rather low RoI, but high capital investment tools. Turning them into BPCs renders their "emergent" niche useless, which is a BAD thing. Releasing new T2 BPOs would have a similar effect.
In terms of per-unit profit, obviously they offer an advantage compared to invention, otherwise nobody would use them ; a more appropriate phrasing however is that invention was introduced and kept inferior to T2 BPO manufacture INTENTIONALLY by CCP - invention was never meant as a complete and utter replacement of all old BPOs, invention was meant to break the monopoly-level insane pricing schemes of T2 BPO owners, a task at which it was spectacularly successful. It also replaced distribution of new T2 item BPOs, because the main beef was with the way they used to be distributed (and ANY new method of limited fresh T2 BPO distribution would end up facing similar "cheating" allegations).
Or, in other words, if you believe T2 BPOs are "overpowered", then purchase some ; if you believe they're not, then you're merely arguing for the sake of arguing.
Quote: And the whole "it'll take you 5 years to make your money back", laughable, as not everyone paid obscene for their t2bpos.
It doesn't matter how much anybody paid for it. Minerals you're refining from ore you mined yourself are not worth less than minerals you purchase from the market, they're worth the exact same amount. Same with T2 BPOs - it doesn't matter whether you received one as a gift, won it a long time ago in the lottery or purchased it for whatever price at whatever point in time, ALL of those options have the same end result, namely, you having that particular T2 BPO, which is worth as much as the market will pay for it, not more, nor less.
_
Akita T USEFUL EVE LINKS collection |
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