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Valei Khurelem
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Posted - 2011.08.10 16:48:00 -
[91]
Originally by: JitaPriceChecker2 Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2 on 10/08/2011 12:03:32 Anyone having balls to fly hulk in no local environment not only deserves to have access to ABC ores but he should have hes reward actually doubled
+1
The only reason that CSM wants to nerf wormholes is because they can't gank these miners easily enough and are crying about it.
Honestly expressing my beliefs and opinions is not trolling |
Bane Necran
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.10 16:51:00 -
[92]
Has anyone ever seen a goon in a WH?
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.10 16:52:00 -
[93]
Quote: What would it take for you to mine in 0.0? Why would you like to do it and why wouldn't you? What would be your long term objectives?
CCP put in SOV mechanics in nullsec, making nullsec "worth it" to only 2 groups of players; those claiming SOV and those roaming the unpopulated area for a quick buck.
Roaming nullsec in hulks for a quick buck is not profitable, and helps industry in nullsec exactly zero as the ore will be sold in Jita.
. Adapt and overcome or become a monkey on an evolution poster.
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Valei Khurelem
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Posted - 2011.08.10 16:52:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Valei Khurelem on 10/08/2011 16:53:08
Originally by: Bane Necran Has anyone ever seen a goon in a WH?
Sadly the only experience I had with wormholes was scanning and finding one in high sec, then when I jumped through I found out that my entrance would go away in a few days so I couldn't tell you :(
I think it's worth it if you're in a small or medium sized corp, but otherwise I don't think it's as profitable as these guys are making it out to be if people really are soloing these wormholes then they're just being stupid and should get their acts together and find out where they are.
Honestly expressing my beliefs and opinions is not trolling |
Asuri Kinnes
Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.08.10 17:00:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 10/08/2011 17:05:57
Originally by: Cang Zar Hurf Durf
I sincerly hope your talking about mittens. Meissa is in Rooks and Kings, a WH living corp, I believe . . .
I think he/she/it/whatever has a clue about WH mechanics. So, on the *off* chance your not talking about mittens I would say "do your ****ing homework". If you are talking about mittens I would say "carry on..."
Originally by: Ya Huei Granted, yes a real player will have to provide the bookmarks, but aside from that I'm guessing that bots probably also know how to warp to a POS or something when local spikes? So "warp to bookmark" is probably already among the botters arsenal of tricks.
/facepalm...
There is *no* local in WH space... None...
For all those saying you can hit D-scan and know who's inbound, I'm pretty sure that's a freaking pipe dream. Covert-ops jumps in, cloaks up. D-Scans then looks at system map. Using *just the d-scan*, get a general idea of angle distance to ship sigs. Warp to out of d-scan range of wherever you find *generic hi-sec miners...*, drop probes. Set to 1/2 au range, scan, warp in, provide warpin to your cloaky m8's sitting on the other side of the entrance wh. Miners have about 10 seconds warning before they start popping.... It's happened to us, and we've done it to others. Usually what we find are groups running sleeper sites...
Hell, when I was in The Bastards (Oi m8's! ), we had several people who could scan you down so fast it seemed like magic. And thats *with* local...
Supposedly there is some data that CCP mentioned about the amount of minerals coming out of WH's.
I would like to see this data.
After having lived in a WH off and on since they came out, I find my experience difficult to reconcile with the stated evidence... I would *especially* like to see the different zones compared. Hi-Sec minerals, low-sec, 0.0 (with the sub catagory - Drone Regions) and Wormholes.
Gonna edit in a couple more comments - I *do* have a couple bones to pick with Meissa! EDIT:
Originally by: Amsterdam Conversations Then why would you mine in a WH? If 0.0 mining is so much better, why would you live in a WH over the ore? Or is there something I'm missing? Or maybe something you forgot to tell?
I dunno which way your coming from, but from my experience, *lots* of people live in WH's because of the independence to do exactly wtf you want, when you want. And for better or worse, Null-Sec has a reputation of being populated by elitist ass-hats, but is probably no more true than "hi-sec is nothing but care-bears..."
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Malcanis
Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2011.08.10 17:07:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Prince Kobol Here is a quote from our beloved CSM Leader regarding the removal of ABC ores from WH
"I'll go ahead and like jump on this grenade cause theres a bunch of angry wormholers who are all ****ed off about it I don't give a ****. Basicly its stupid that you can mine Arkanor 2 jumps from Jita through a wormhole and low risk in my opinion. Uh, on the other hand, you should probably stop panicing because I think in the sucking chest wounds of EVE Online, uh, ABCs in wormholes are stupid for um class 1 through class 4. Class 5 and 6 is fine cause they're going to be more removed from empire. I think its dumb that you can have some guy in a hulk from Jita pop in with relatively low risk into a C1 whatever and get ABC, when ABC is typically something, uh, reserved for extremely dangerous space far from empire. Uh, and we think that its important to make mining a valuable uh profession again particularly with high end ores because their prices crash. I started out mining as a newbie in Syndicate uh getting Crokite and we would all have big mining ops together. Nobody bothers with it anymore except for bots because the prices crash so much. Um, but yeah, I think its dumb that theres ABCs in wormholes, but its not the first order of business on my political agenda. I'm a little bit more focused on things like supercap balance... So don't worry your pretty little heads."
This was taken from the Fire Side chat.
Isn't it great that the current CSM Chairman doesn't have a clue and that CCP are actually listening to this Personal attack removed - Fallout.
I'm not sure who is worse, the fool or the fool who follows him.
Thanks for being the first to bring this to our attention, immediately after it has happened.
Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players. |
Malkev
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Posted - 2011.08.10 17:08:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel Risk is comparatively lower simply by virtue of being harder to find. Also, your being at a site in space rather than at a belt means you have more time to notice people scanning you down. As opposed to 0.0 where one can simply warp to your belt and kill you.
You must suck at combat probing. I can get probes on top of a target just long enough to get my 100% hit and then have them gone just as fast.
Lazy on d-scan? Sucks to be you.
The instant intel provided by the local channel means absolute safety; I honestly don't see how you could get popped if you're paying attention.
You act like you don't have time to safe up when a neut shows up, as if all the belts are within d-scan range and there is a big sign that tells them where to warp to find your mining op.
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Gibsie
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Posted - 2011.08.10 17:09:00 -
[98]
Quote: When/if the C1->C4 ABC mining gets nerfed, if the situation overall is not better for miners, I'll accept being bashed and blamed for it but as it is I truly believe the plan we're working on with CCP is for the best for the industrialists.
Archived.
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Trainwreck McGee
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Posted - 2011.08.10 17:09:00 -
[99]
I am just really glad that CCP doesn't give a **** what CSM says
They seem to be even dumber than CCP
And yes of coarse i mine in a C2 WH...i wouldn't have said the above otherwise.
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.08.10 17:21:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 10/08/2011 17:22:25
Originally by: Meissa Anunthiel Also, most of 0.0 does *NOT* have ABC.
I was under the impression that with industry upgrades they *could* have it. Am I wrong? If so, and ABC's are removed from low-level WH's to "buff" 0.0, what is to stop 0.0 alliances from adding the industry upgrades, and crashing the market back down?
One way there is more interaction between groups (wh mining) and less interaction (mining in sovereign null-sec) {imho}.
Originally by: Prince Kobol Here is a quote from our beloved CSM Leader regarding the removal of ABC ores from WH
Way to be late to the party, by the way, by about 3 weeks? Good Job!
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.10 17:38:00 -
[101]
I wouldnÆt worry too much about what Mitts says. HeÆs just unhappy with how little say he has in things and is just trying to get under your skin. HeÆs more accustomed to having cheerleaders and sheep than folk who openly disagree with him.
Why do you even care about these ôfire side chatsö? It isnÆt as if CCP actually believes the CSM is representing anything but the interests in K-space null sec or in the case of Mitts and company, the interests of goonies. To Mitts credit, heÆs real open and honest about that.
CCP knows the majority of EVE players are not represented and although they may not vote in the CSM elections, they will vote with subscriptions. After all, CCP is currently feeling the weight of that vote. Make EVE all about null sec and the rest of EVE says, ôno problem, I can do something elseö. ItÆs not a life, itÆs a gameàààà.and all too easy to leave.
-Windjammer
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Aus Man Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.10 17:42:00 -
[102]
You know I kind of agree with him... But then why would someone mine in a wh at all.
Also why not grab a lvl 2 wh with a static empire entrance and a 5-6wh attached...one more jump, bit more risk...sounds right to me.
I dislike goons but mittens is doing just fine.
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.08.10 17:44:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Windjammer Why do you even care about these ôfire side chatsö?
Because as Meissa said, apparently the whole ABC's in WH's conversation came about because of some (supposed) data that CCP have about ABC's coming out of WH's and the CSM can't comment on.
It just bugs the **** out of me that we don't get a new QEN, and apparently can't be trusted with the data.
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
J Kunjeh
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.10 17:50:00 -
[104]
Originally by: Ladie Scarlet Mittens should be Chairman For Life.
That would be the 10th circle of hell. ______________________
"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) |
Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
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Posted - 2011.08.10 17:50:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA!
Best sig ever.
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Jita mcheck
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Posted - 2011.08.10 18:02:00 -
[106]
I agree with mittens.
But it is a minior issue.
From personal experiance I was based out of a class 2 worm hole with a static level 5 entrance. Had a Pos all set up(brought in through the class 5) so was safe(very few dreads or bs fleets roam level 2's.) Could mine all day and move stuff in and out. big stuff out through the c5, small daily stuff directly to empire. every day i could move ore in and out. some times right into trade hubs(got amar a bunch of times).
If i had to mine in the c6 it would be a bit harder. As it should be, in 0.0 solo minning is a pain due to rats as well as pvp. Right now in blood raider space those rats just suck!
Sorry but mittens is correct in his summary of this issue. Need a line here |
Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.08.10 18:08:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Originally by: Windjammer Why do you even care about these ôfire side chatsö?
Because as Meissa said, apparently the whole ABC's in WH's conversation came about because of some (supposed) data that CCP have about ABC's coming out of WH's and the CSM can't comment on.
It just bugs the **** out of me that we don't get a new QEN, and apparently can't be trusted with the data.
If that were the case, then why is CCP Zulu quoted as saying heÆs going to ôlook into itö? Like itÆs something thatÆs just come to his attention and he needs more data on. Why are the people on the CSM who have knowledge of WH space disagreeing with the notion of removing ABC ores from WH space until such a time as data is gathered on the situation? Whatever data there was, if there was, was sketchy at best and this whole ôwe canÆt talk about it, but we know better than you doö is a load.
People who know WHÆs are convinced removing ABC ores from lower class WHÆs is a silly idea. People who donÆt know WHÆs are supporting removal because they donÆt know any better and worry that it might be affecting their own corner of the game.
The only data we ôcanÆt be trusted withö is the data showing subscription numbers. Class? Can anyone tell me why CCP might not be eager to share that information?
-Windjammer
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.10 18:09:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Jita mcheck I agree with mittens.
But it is a minior issue.
From personal experiance I was based out of a class 2 worm hole with a static level 5 entrance. Had a Pos all set up(brought in through the class 5) so was safe(very few dreads or bs fleets roam level 2's.) Could mine all day and move stuff in and out. big stuff out through the c5, small daily stuff directly to empire. every day i could move ore in and out. some times right into trade hubs(got amar a bunch of times).
If i had to mine in the c6 it would be a bit harder. As it should be, in 0.0 solo minning is a pain due to rats as well as pvp. Right now in blood raider space those rats just suck!
Sorry but mittens is correct in his summary of this issue.
Great reply from jita alt. Post is so detailed that it has to be true. --- This is one of the moments where we look at what CCP does and less of what they say. Innovation takes time to set in and the predictable reaction is always to resist change |
Sigeric
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Posted - 2011.08.10 18:18:00 -
[109]
It may just be that I'm a noob, but if unprotected mining vessels are, en masse, mining just 2 jumps out from Jita, it sounds like an awesomely juicy target
I think I just chose my career path
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Valari Nala Zena
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2011.08.10 18:26:00 -
[110]
Next on the agenda, moving all belts to lowsec and nullsec.
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.08.10 18:33:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Asuri Kinnes
Because as Meissa said, apparently the whole ABC's in WH's conversation came about because of some (supposed) data that CCP have about ABC's coming out of WH's and the CSM can't comment on.
It just bugs the **** out of me that we don't get a new QEN, and apparently can't be trusted with the data.
If that were the case, then why is CCP Zulu quoted as saying heÆs going to ôlook into itö? Like itÆs something thatÆs just come to his attention and he needs more data on. Why are the people on the CSM who have knowledge of WH space disagreeing with the notion of removing ABC ores from WH space until such a time as data is gathered on the situation? Whatever data there was, if there was, was sketchy at best and this whole ôwe canÆt talk about it, but we know better than you doö is a load.
People who know WHÆs are convinced removing ABC ores from lower class WHÆs is a silly idea. People who donÆt know WHÆs are supporting removal because they donÆt know any better and worry that it might be affecting their own corner of the game.
The only data we ôcanÆt be trusted withö is the data showing subscription numbers. Class? Can anyone tell me why CCP might not be eager to share that information? -Windjammer
#1 - (just fyi) - I've lived in a WH since they came out (off and on) and my current corp has lived there since they came out - we have a clue about WH's. (because you made it sound as if *I* didn't have a clue - if that wasn't your intent, apologies...)
#2 - Either Meissa or Trebor (maybe even mittens - I don't recall) said that (i guess during the whole 0.0 industry discussion) - they were presented with some data on ABC's coming out of WH's... Which is back where this all started.
If Meissa or Trebor could corroborate for me?
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
Manssell
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Posted - 2011.08.10 18:37:00 -
[112]
It seems the CSM is starting to act just like CCP and now wants to dictate to players their playing style. Like living in a WH? Tough, CSM wants you in 0.0 where they think you belong. Liked spinning your ship? Tough, CCP wants you in your quarters where they think you belong. Will ABC WH minerals be the new ship spinning? Stay tuned, only time will tell.
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.08.10 18:38:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Jita mcheck I agree with mittens.
But it is a minior issue.
From personal experiance I was based out of a class 2 worm hole with a static level 5 entrance. Had a Pos all set up(brought in through the class 5) so was safe(very few dreads or bs fleets roam level 2's.) Could mine all day and move stuff in and out. big stuff out through the c5, small daily stuff directly to empire. every day i could move ore in and out. some times right into trade hubs(got amar a bunch of times).
If i had to mine in the c6 it would be a bit harder. As it should be, in 0.0 solo minning is a pain due to rats as well as pvp. Right now in blood raider space those rats just suck!
Sorry but mittens is correct in his summary of this issue.
You moved big stuff "out through the C5"? You "mined all day"?
You, sir, are a liar.
There is no monocle. |
Takamori Maruyama
Amarr Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.10 18:41:00 -
[114]
Can someone experienced in WH record a playthrough in the damn WH. And show if the thing is serious **** or its just a pony playground? Done you solve all the damn theory and put in practice and teach the new guys what the hell is a WH.
Also wanna solve the problem with Jita?Turn it low sec
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Ingvar Angst
Amarr Nasty Pope Holding Corp Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.08.10 18:47:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Takamori Maruyama Can someone experienced in WH record a playthrough in the damn WH. And show if the thing is serious **** or its just a pony playground? Done you solve all the damn theory and put in practice and teach the new guys what the hell is a WH.
Record a playthrough of what? If you live in a hole and want to mine you need to: 1. Scan out your sites and hope you have a grav spawned. You can go weeks without one. 2. Warp to the site to activate it. 3. Wait for the rats to spawn and kill the rats. 4. Start mining, but keep clicking DScan while you do so. If you see someone, RUN! Hopefully it's not too late...
Now, this doesn't take into account trying to minimize your risk by crushing existing holes and having additional people with combats out keeping an eye for unfriendlies, for example, just the most basic aspect of mining that leaves you with a good chance of being popped. Someone else on combats, for example, can provide a little bit of an early warning comparable to local, unless of course there's someone cloaked in your hole alread, in which case you're screwed.
There is no monocle. |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Norse'Storm Battle Group Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.08.10 18:51:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Takamori Maruyama
Also wanna solve the problem with Jita?Turn it low sec
Everytime I see this idea, I burst out laughing. Thank you for my daily dose of LOL. --Vel
Originally by: Blacksquirrel
This is EVE. PVE can happen anywhere at anytime. Be prepared.
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Takamori Maruyama
Amarr Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.10 18:53:00 -
[117]
Just for the sake of ending this ******ed vicious cycle of: HURR ITS EASY. HURR ITS HARD.
Show the damn thing and everyone will have something more consistent to discuss about.
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Bane Necran
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.10 18:56:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Takamori Maruyama Show the damn thing and everyone will have something more consistent to discuss about.
Well according to mittani and others they're very easy to find and pose no real risk, so go hop into one yourself and tell us.
You can even take your biggest and most impressive ship, because everyone in WHs are noobs and combat rarely happens.
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Takamori Maruyama
Amarr Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.10 19:00:00 -
[119]
Well probably if I record something ,manage to get into a wormhole and get ****d in the first 5 min venturing there. I will receive the answer oh you are a ******ed noob that is no proof.
So showing a veteran venturing the WH, gives more credibility.
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Asuri Kinnes
Caldari Adhocracy Incorporated
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Posted - 2011.08.10 19:00:00 -
[120]
Edited by: Asuri Kinnes on 10/08/2011 19:00:38 One of the things the CSM/CCP is going to have to look at in all this (if they want to "encourage" more industry/farms/fields in Null sec) is that people who build/mine/industry (as a total group - individuals may be different) will want to build/mine/invent/sell in safety. Therefore, unless something RADICAL is done, major market hubs are *always* going to be in hi-sec... vOv Just the way people are. Most don't want the hassles of trying to do all that stuff in 0,0 - at least that's the impression I get...
Wormholes: The *NEW* end game of Eve - Online: No Local. No Lag. No Blues (No Intell Channesl). No Blobs.
NEW FEATURE: NO INCARNA! |
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