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Melanoq
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Posted - 2011.08.17 00:20:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Melanoq on 17/08/2011 00:22:59 Looking for some perspective on which racial cruiser V to take up. I am ready to pick a lineup of ships, and the whole lineup is important. I would like to fly recons, but also would like the flexibility to solo, both PvE and PVP, in the tech 2 cruiser lineup, with a thought about Tech 3 cruisers. This means HACs and HICs too. I am leaning towards Minny, as they have a solid lineup, including a decent solo recon and a decent Tech 3? Solo Falcon is not reputed to be a very good choice, and fleet 100km Caracal was not my thing so I presume Caldari is not the way to go.
Read the facts and sell me something.
Facts: -Stealth is fun but I like a little bit of gank with my sneakiness. I play ranger/scout in fantasy MMOs, never the thief. I never play the healer, so Logi, while useful, won't be my focus.
-When I play MMOs, I usually end up playing with several alts before I max a character. Thus, in eve, I ended up with 12M SP and am not terribly specialized.
-Started out in PVE, did the race to the Drake, then raced to a Raven. I ended up disliking the Raven, and while somewhat slower for completion, still prefer the Drake. I can competently fly the drake with T2 HML and a T2 tank, with T2 drones.
-Have pretty good shield skills and some armor tanking skills. I have level 4 Gunnery and Missile support skills.
-Trained the Manticore, Hawk and Harpy. I joined Red vs. Blue and got a taste for a number of T1 frigs and cruisers, and have a good feel for what I like and what I don't.
-Have done the RvB gang thing and some solo roaming and solo lowsec roams with: Stabber, Thorax, Rifter, Merlin, Punisher, Kestrel, Harpy, and Caracal. I have a couple solo kills, lots of gang kills and have lost about 50 ships so I am familiar with frigs and cruisers and their capabilities, specifically what to do to get your ship blown up. I lost some cruisers and BC solo roaming in lowsec early in my career due to inexperience combined with a lack of fear.
-Have several Tech 2 small weapons- rockets, blasters, railguns and autocannons. This was part of my trying things plans.
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Tippia
Caldari Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2011.08.17 01:36:00 -
[2]
<snide> All of them. </snide>
No, really. They all have something to offer, even the Gallente (♥ Ishtar) although I'd say they're the weakest of the lot due to a severely meh logistics ship, underpowered ewar (and warfare links, once you get that far) and due to everything else being reliant on hybrids.
First of all, you can pretty much strike HICs from your decision-making process. They all do their job with different flavours and whichever race you pick, you'll get a HIC that does something useful.
Caldari gives you the Tengu ù the king of sub-BS PvE. They also give you a nice selection of fleet ships, but as you point out, they're perhaps a bit lacking on the solo side.
If you want recons and solo, Amarr is the obvious choice if it weren't for the fact that no-one is insane enough to go after a Pilgrim or Curse without proper backup and a bagful of precautionary measures.
I trained minny ships too late to have any real experience with them aside from noting that they're very annoying to go up against since they all excel at running away if things are looking bleak. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡ you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
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Melanoq
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Posted - 2011.08.17 02:04:00 -
[3]
Tippia, Of course I want to train all of them, but at almost 30 days (for the Frig 5, the weapon spec and the Cruiser 5) it is a big investment. I appreciate your analysis, very helpful.
Follow up- I have all my defense skill certificates to standard, with shields to improved, so Amarr might be a longer road. Would the missile skills balance the road to make it worthwhile?
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I likegirls
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.17 04:02:00 -
[4]
Minmatar hands down. <3 |
Zagam
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Posted - 2011.08.17 14:13:00 -
[5]
Minnie or Caldari.
Minnie - VERY solid HIC (Broadsword) that has a BS-level tank. Also good HAC (Vagabond). The Logi ship is more of a "helper" role than a "healer".
Caldari - Meh, until you get into a Tengu. (a Tengu is a natural upgrade from a Drake) ---------.oOo.---------- Chaos, Madness, and Destruction. My work here is done. |
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
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Posted - 2011.08.17 14:14:00 -
[6]
Yeah, Minmatar.
Vaga is a fantastic HAC. Rapier is a fine recon. Scimitars are great. Broadsword is objectively the best HIC. Loki is an outstanding T3.
Minmatar owns at literally everything. |
Aloe Cloveris
The Greater Goon
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Posted - 2011.08.17 14:20:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Tippia They all do their job with different flavours and whichever race you pick, you'll get a HIC that does something useful.
It's true. I've gotten Enhanced Ward Consoles from Phobos wrecks. |
Othran
Brutor Tribe
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Posted - 2011.08.17 14:55:00 -
[8]
I've been trying to work out which race to advise - and failing really.
I think if I were you I'd do Minmatar cruiser 5 and then (ASAP) Amarr cruiser 5. The gunnery skills will overlap somewhat and with a bit of polish your drone skills will be good enough for Curse/Pilgrim.
Its a nice contrast too - Amarr heavy on weapons cap usage but instant ammo changes, Minmatar no cap on weapons, reload delay and hauling loads of ammo about on roams.
You have to do Amarr cruiser 5 for the Curse - its a ship that will put a big smile on your face when you use it. Doing Amarr cruiser 5 just for the Curse is worth the time - it will require Recon5 to work properly though.
Minmatar opens up a lot of competent - but not compelling - ships to you. Vaga is nice but not after Cynabal; Muninn is one of those ships you feel just isn't "right"; Rapier is good for gang work but DPS is pretty bad for solo, although its quite do-able.
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Melanoq
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Posted - 2011.08.17 16:35:00 -
[9]
The consensus seems to be Amarr or Minny.
I put together a little matrix of possibles. The allure ofCaldari is the Tengu, but for me that's might be all right now. Thoughts on the Sac? The HAM bonus would make the infamous Amarr recons worth it?
Those who sold minimatar, I understand the rapier is ok but not as good as the pilgrim?
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Zagam
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Posted - 2011.08.17 17:22:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Melanoq The consensus seems to be Amarr or Minny.
I put together a little matrix of possibles. The allure ofCaldari is the Tengu, but for me that's might be all right now. Thoughts on the Sac? The HAM bonus would make the infamous Amarr recons worth it?
Those who sold minimatar, I understand the rapier is ok but not as good as the pilgrim?
Rapier is OK, but Pilgrim is better.
Basically, the tradeoff between Amarr and Minnie is that Amarr has two great ships for PvP (Curse and Pilgrim), and some mediocre ships. Minnie has several very good ships for PvP (Vaga, Broadsword, Rapier), but few that are mediocre (most minnie ships are at least "good" or "decent" in PvP).
And for reference: mediocre < decent < good < very good < great ---------.oOo.---------- Chaos, Madness, and Destruction. My work here is done. |
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Melanoq
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Posted - 2011.08.17 20:14:00 -
[11]
How does cloaky t3 go? Tengu, then what? Thinking all in one explorer.
I know, lots of questions but frigs and drakes are my reference.
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Zagam
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Posted - 2011.08.18 13:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Melanoq How does cloaky t3 go? Tengu, then what? Thinking all in one explorer.
I know, lots of questions but frigs and drakes are my reference.
If you are looking for exploration, Loki is actually the way to go. ---------.oOo.---------- Chaos, Madness, and Destruction. My work here is done. |
Robert Silf
Outer Ring Marauders
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Posted - 2011.08.18 17:53:00 -
[13]
If you're looking for a cloaked combat ship in the T3 Category, take a long serious look at the Loki.
For running around in low-sec/Null sec, it's a good choice. Then again, so is the Pilgrim.
If your goal with a Cloaked T3 is to explore/Hit targets of opportunity then the Loki is a solid choice. Also, the skills required to get the Loki are good to have.
-Robert Silf
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Tasiv Deka
Amarr The Baseborn Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.08.19 04:30:00 -
[14]
go get a four sided die six sided could work with two reroll sides assign each side to a race and roll any number of times pick the highest
"Why does your ship have a taco bar?" "In case we want food with our coffee." "Wait you have a coffee maker in your ship?" "I have an entire Coffee Shop in here." |
Magnus Orin
Minmatar Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.19 21:19:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Magnus Orin on 19/08/2011 21:20:48 All four are great.
Minmatar: Vaga is a great solo ship, good recons, and excellent logistics. Decent t3 Caldari: Great Recon (Falcon), not so good logistics, but ok. best t3 for pve Gallente: hmm, nothing good really stands out here for me (I may just be drawing a blank though) Edit: ah yes the Ishtar, great ship. Amarr: Zealot is a great Hac, Guardian is amazing, and the Curse and pilgrim are top notch recons. Legion is decent too.
To rank them I'd say
For pvp:
Amarr Minmatar Caldari Gallente
For Pve
Caldari Gallente (nothing else really) Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
David Carel
Caldari Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.21 17:17:00 -
[16]
I got all 4 trained, Gallente only for the Cynabal falloff bonus. <3 Cynabal.
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Abaroth Charmar
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Posted - 2011.08.22 12:01:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Melanoq Of course I want to train all of them, but at almost 30 days (for the Frig 5, the weapon spec and the Cruiser 5) it is a big investment.
Then quit now, or you are going to QQ when you start training for caps.
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Signal11th
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Posted - 2011.08.22 15:45:00 -
[18]
As previous people has said I would look at training all of them, you dont have to do them all concurrently but I would probably go mini or caldari first.
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mama guru
Gallente Thundercats
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Posted - 2011.08.25 13:50:00 -
[19]
Edited by: mama guru on 25/08/2011 13:51:17 Training for Solo and gang warfare at the same time is kinda hard. Sooner enough you will have both so think more carefully about which one you want first. It's not just about what cruiser skill to get to V. It's about what damage method/tanking method you want to specialize in first. Minmatar will require missiles, armor and shield tanks beyond turrets to complete the lineup. Amarr requires only really turrets and armor tanking as signifigant investments.
Minmatar is the most viable in terms of flexability, you got a great recon, logi and hac but only for shield and skirmish pvp. A maxed out rupture is always nice for solo work or in small gangs to.
On the amarr side you got the spankmachine that is the Zealot. It is by far the most powerful hac in gang warfare and the guardian is the most viable armor logistic. Recon wise they are not as powerful, the pilgrim has great appeal but falls short of the rapier in a realistic pvp enviroment. All you really need to encounter is a scram, web, small nos and a rack of autocannons, drones or missiles with enough EHP to outlast your 200 DPS from Hammerhead II's and your first adventure in a pilgrim ends in humiliation and rage.
The curse on the other hand is a cap nuking anti turret monster, but most damage in pvp is done by projectile weapons, missiles, or drones. Neither of these are dependant on capacitor to do damage, and only one of these gets affected by tracking disruption. So ultimately the curse is nowhere near as potent as 40km stasis webs are in terms of what they bring to win a battle.
TL;DR: Minmatar> Amarr(unless you are required to train for AHAC gangs)> Caldari> Gallente
I must say though that the Gallente have the most fun ships ingame, and the ishtar is one hell of a ratting ship if you live in northern 0.0. _________ EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak. |
Srioghal moDhream
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Posted - 2011.08.26 16:11:00 -
[20]
No need to get the frigate to V, only IV is required for cruiser.
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Baneken
Gallente The New Knighthood Apocalypse Now.
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Posted - 2011.08.26 17:54:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Srioghal moDhream No need to get the frigate to V, only IV is required for cruiser.
Except that you need skills like assault ships IV (which requires frigate V obviously) for HACs or covert ops IV for recons.
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Dirty Addict
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Posted - 2011.08.27 17:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Baneken
Originally by: Srioghal moDhream No need to get the frigate to V, only IV is required for cruiser.
Except that you need skills like assault ships IV (which requires frigate V obviously) for HACs or covert ops IV for recons.
Frig 5 isnt a pre req for assult ships skill!.. Only if you intend flying them you need the skill to sit in the ship..
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