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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
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Posted - 2011.08.19 12:57:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2011 12:57:22
 Originally by: Jenn aSide
Delayed local only works in wormholes because you can't get into a wormhole via a gate.
You can't get into your main sanctum system via a gate?
When did that happen 
For god's sake learn to defend your assets you loathsome destroyers of all fun in EVE Online.
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Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
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Posted - 2011.08.19 12:57:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Another hypothetical situation:
1. You are ratting in your ship, whatever it is.
2. Recon decloaks and bumps you.
3. Recon lights a covert cyno.
4. You are ****d by a black ops fleet.
You lose a ship and you had no chance to avoid this at any time. It would be fun for black ops, perhaps I would even fly my widow, but all the economic activities in null would halt.
So what your saying is that you were not paying attention to your overview, you were no where near being aligned to anything and you are also saying that ships that jump a Cyno have 0 delay from the time that you see them to the time that they can lock you?
U fail to.
Get better at eve.
Like I said, recon bumps you, alignment is gone. After that even a fast ship would need a few seconds to align. And if you are ratting in anything bigger than bs then you are most definitely doomed.
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Aelius
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2011.08.19 12:59:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Aelius on 19/08/2011 13:09:29
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Another hypothetical situation:
1. You are ratting in your ship, whatever it is.
2. Recon decloaks and bumps you.
3. Recon lights a covert cyno.
4. You are ****d by a black ops fleet.
You lose a ship and you had no chance to avoid this at any time. It would be fun for black ops, perhaps I would even fly my widow, but all the economic activities in null would halt.
Why the hell do i need a cyno and bumping??! a few bombers and some Tengus can do just the same or any other combination of covert ops... hell i will scramble you so fast that even aligned you will have a very hard time to get out before the point hits you.
And BTW... YES you have ways to avoid this, if you are smart... just plant a few cans/probes around your ship at a considerable distance to uncloak that ship. or use the asteroids to your advantage to do the same... and watch D-Scan. Use some stabs on your PVE setup (0.0 rats are butter compared to sleepers so you can do it)... Ofcourse none of the above is 100% secure... in comparison with the 100% secure all seeing Local right?!
___________________________________________
Hilmar in his childhood
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 13:00:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2011 13:00:43
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Like I said, recon bumps you, alignment is gone. After that even a fast ship would need a few seconds to align. And if you are ratting in anything bigger than bs then you are most definitely doomed.
I am just going to come right out an say it, you are imagining this scenario in your head. That technique will work like 1 out of 10 tries if the target is doing what he or she is supposed to be doing. For cereal.
AND.... RAT IN A PVP CAPABLE SHIP!!!!
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:00:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Jenn aSide
Which is moot the damage is done. How many people would stay in null sec to rat under such a situation where there is NO hope of defending yourself when you could just plop that ratting alt in empire and make boatlods of isk in incursions or slightly smaller boatloads in missions in near perfect safety?
If you thought the anom nerf was bad (I still know lots of people who moved alts to empire to make isk), remove local and see what happens lol.
Very Very short sighted thinking here. CCP would litterally have to change the way cloaking and maybe even warping works to keep from killing null sec. Delayed local only works in wormholes because you can't get into a wormhole via a gate.
It wouldn't be moot to the black ops people who lost their ships to the trap. Do this a few times and they would most likely go somewhere else to do it. Just like the AFK campers that gave up after I killed them a few times.
The loss of local will only force the spineless into high sec which is fine by me because it means more room for me.
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Sandviched
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:02:00 -
[66]
10/10 you seemed to have got a lot of people conned..
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bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:04:00 -
[67]
Removing local would also come with a huge bonus never mentioned here yet: No more whine threads over AFK cloakers 
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Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:04:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Aelius
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Another hypothetical situation:
1. You are ratting in your ship, whatever it is.
2. Recon decloaks and bumps you.
3. Recon lights a covert cyno.
4. You are ****d by a black ops fleet.
You lose a ship and you had no chance to avoid this at any time. It would be fun for black ops, perhaps I would even fly my widow, but all the economic activities in null would halt.
Why the hell do i need a cyno and bumping??! a few bombers and some Tengus can do just the same or any other combination of covert ops... hell i will scramble you so fast that even aligned you will have a very hard time to get out before the point hits you.
Because that's what the cool kids do, and also it's easier to slip in a single ship.
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Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:06:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
AND.... RAT IN A PVP CAPABLE SHIP!!!!
When CCP will give regular rats a sleeper AI I will do that. Until then any PVP capable ship is absolutely useless for ratting.
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:07:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2011 13:07:45
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
AND.... RAT IN A PVP CAPABLE SHIP!!!!
When CCP will give regular rats a sleeper AI I will do that. Until then any PVP capable ship is absolutely useless for ratting.
Says you.
It works just fine on my end. Maybe you need more Sp in the correct combinations?
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Jenn aSide
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:08:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2011 12:57:22
Originally by: Jenn aSide
Delayed local only works in wormholes because you can't get into a wormhole via a gate.
You can't get into your main sanctum system via a gate?
???
English next time lol.
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Jenn aSide
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:12:00 -
[72]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Jenn aSide
Which is moot the damage is done. How many people would stay in null sec to rat under such a situation where there is NO hope of defending yourself when you could just plop that ratting alt in empire and make boatlods of isk in incursions or slightly smaller boatloads in missions in near perfect safety?
If you thought the anom nerf was bad (I still know lots of people who moved alts to empire to make isk), remove local and see what happens lol.
Very Very short sighted thinking here. CCP would litterally have to change the way cloaking and maybe even warping works to keep from killing null sec. Delayed local only works in wormholes because you can't get into a wormhole via a gate.
It wouldn't be moot to the black ops people who lost their ships to the trap. Do this a few times and they would most likely go somewhere else to do it. Just like the AFK campers that gave up after I killed them a few times.
The loss of local will only force the spineless into high sec which is fine by me because it means more room for me.
As I said, short sighted thinking. I actully LIKE having people to shoot at. As it is now we have to go at least 12 jumps to have a hope of someone being around.
The goal should be MORE fights, not less. As it is now we can still jump in to a system and have a chance at a juicy target in a sanctum or haven (especially if they are dumb enough to get stuck on something and can't warp, it still happens lol).
With no local there might be LESS of this (because of even more people fleeing to empire to make 100mil an hour in an incursion), and that's just stupid.
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Newt Rondanse
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:13:00 -
[73]
Doing away with local does away with public tear harvests, and tears shared are all the sweeter.
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Aelius
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:13:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Originally by: Aelius
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Another hypothetical situation:
1. You are ratting in your ship, whatever it is.
2. Recon decloaks and bumps you.
3. Recon lights a covert cyno.
4. You are ****d by a black ops fleet.
You lose a ship and you had no chance to avoid this at any time. It would be fun for black ops, perhaps I would even fly my widow, but all the economic activities in null would halt.
Why the hell do i need a cyno and bumping??! a few bombers and some Tengus can do just the same or any other combination of covert ops... hell i will scramble you so fast that even aligned you will have a very hard time to get out before the point hits you.
Because that's what the cool kids do, and also it's easier to slip in a single ship.
And BTW... YES you have ways to avoid this, if you are smart... just plant a few cans/probes around your ship at a considerable distance to uncloak that ship. or use the asteroids to your advantage to do the same... and watch D-Scan. Use some stabs on your PVE setup (0.0 rats are butter compared to sleepers so you can do it)... Ofcourse none of the above is 100% secure... in comparison with the 100% secure all seeing Local right?!
___________________________________________
Hilmar in his childhood
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
|
Posted - 2011.08.19 13:17:00 -
[75]
Edited by: Eternum Praetorian on 19/08/2011 13:19:03
Target: "Oh my god I am tackled what do I do!!!"
Friend 1: "Dear god I don't know!!!"
Friend 2: "sorry bud"
The other 10 in system: "Meh, he is screwed who cares"
The 7 in the neighboring system: "That's one jump away I'll just dock up"
The 8 others 4 jumps away in the next outpost: "LOL that moron"
Target dies in a fire...
The problem? Local creates an easy peasy environment where you are not required to defend your assets only your massive EHP sov structures from supercapitals. That is a big problem for any game. Defending your space, defending your people and defending your faucets of ISK should be priority 1 in nullsec.
If you can't handle that move over because someone else will be able to. 
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Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:31:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Marchocias
You still have to be uncloaked to actually put it on though. Calling someone dumb when they are technically correct isn't exactly appropriate.
well. technically i didn't call him "dumb". i have just writed it on internet forum targeted something virtual named "avatar".
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Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:35:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Aelius
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Originally by: Aelius
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Another hypothetical situation:
1. You are ratting in your ship, whatever it is.
2. Recon decloaks and bumps you.
3. Recon lights a covert cyno.
4. You are ****d by a black ops fleet.
You lose a ship and you had no chance to avoid this at any time. It would be fun for black ops, perhaps I would even fly my widow, but all the economic activities in null would halt.
Why the hell do i need a cyno and bumping??! a few bombers and some Tengus can do just the same or any other combination of covert ops... hell i will scramble you so fast that even aligned you will have a very hard time to get out before the point hits you.
Because that's what the cool kids do, and also it's easier to slip in a single ship.
And BTW... YES you have ways to avoid this, if you are smart... just plant a few cans/probes around your ship at a considerable distance to uncloak that ship. or use the asteroids to your advantage to do the same... and watch D-Scan. Use some stabs on your PVE setup (0.0 rats are butter compared to sleepers so you can do it)... Ofcourse none of the above is 100% secure... in comparison with the 100% secure all seeing Local right?!
Stabs? Lol. That would seriously reduce dps and also isk/h.
Cans? Good luck with that if you are moving.
Asteroids? I'd hate to get stuck on one if I have to warp off.
D-scan? I did that while living in a wh, but it's maddening.
The problem is not that it would be a certain suicide to rat in null without local, but that there's no good reason to increase your chance of losing a ship over only slight increase in profit over highsec. Not to mention wh's are more profitable and if suddenly all null is without local, you might as well go there, as they would become safer.
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Spurty
Caldari
V0LTA
VOLTA Corp
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:40:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Spurty on 19/08/2011 13:41:08
Scout jumps into a system:
Scout: only one ship on d scan, warping to his belt ... He's here.. Tackled.. Warp to me
Two things happen
20 man welp fleet jumps in
300 people pile out of the station and warp to bait
The next couple of seconds are initially interesting, but after a month of this we get...
... Bring back local FFS ...
Yet we all know, once it's gone, it ain't coming back in under two years lol
Happy Birthday! |
Ingvar Angst
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:44:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Stabs? Lol. That would seriously reduce dps and also isk/h.Cans? Good luck with that if you are moving.
Asteroids? I'd hate to get stuck on one if I have to warp off.
D-scan? I did that while living in a wh, but it's maddening.
I think the bolded part shows where the real problem lies, and it's not the fault of local, afk cloaking, whatever.
You don't want to adapt. You want easy comfort mode, in null sec.
Monocles are so two weeks ago.
Sparkle ships are the future! |
Signal11th
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:45:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Spurty
Edited by: Spurty on 19/08/2011 13:41:08
Scout jumps into a system:
Scout: only one ship on d scan, warping to his belt ... He's here.. Tackled.. Warp to me
Two things happen
20 man welp fleet jumps in
300 people pile out of the station and warp to bait
The next couple of seconds are initially interesting, but after a month of this we get...
... Bring back local FFS ...
Yet we all know, once it's gone, it ain't coming back in under two years lol
So a 20 man gank squad can't kill a single ship and warp off before the 300man team from a station (it's hard enough getting 20 people to undock) arrives to kill them?
Whats the 20 man team flying .badgers?
That stuff happens all the time "with" a local and nobody bothers to come out of the station.
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Tiven loves Tansien
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:46:00 -
[81]
I hope they remove local from hi-sec too
I really do
Signature removed for discussion player bans. Zymurgist |
Jenn aSide
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:47:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
The problem is not that it would be a certain suicide to rat in null without local, but that there's no good reason to increase your chance of losing a ship over only slight increase in profit over highsec. Not to mention wh's are more profitable and if suddenly all null is without local, you might as well go there, as they would become safer.
Well said. That's the main point.
It's not that I don't see things ever changing, hell, GOOD changes would be great. Life in null isn't supposed to be safe or even easy.
But there is a point when you go to far. Delayed local in null sec while not changing the insane amounts you can make in the safety of hi-sec or the myriad ways you can already gank null sec ratters would have a chilling effect on null sec. That's not an improvement at all.
Me, I'd adjust just like I have after the anom nerf, but there are already to few targets in null to begin with.
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Signal11th
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:49:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Jenn aSide
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
The problem is not that it would be a certain suicide to rat in null without local, but that there's no good reason to increase your chance of losing a ship over only slight increase in profit over highsec. Not to mention wh's are more profitable and if suddenly all null is without local, you might as well go there, as they would become safer.
Well said. That's the main point.
It's not that I don't see things ever changing, hell, GOOD changes would be great. Life in null isn't supposed to be safe or even easy.
But there is a point when you go to far. Delayed local in null sec while not changing the insane amounts you can make in the safety of hi-sec or the myriad ways you can already gank null sec ratters would have a chilling effect on null sec. That's not an improvement at all.
Me, I'd adjust just like I have after the anom nerf, but there are already to few targets in null to begin with.
If they remove local in null I would be quite happy for 0.0 to receive a buff in rat bounties. More risk more reward and all that
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Miss Rabblt
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:53:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Miss Rabblt on 19/08/2011 13:54:30
Originally by: Signal11th
So a 20 man gank squad can't kill a single ship and warp off before the 300man team from a station (it's hard enough getting 20 people to undock) arrives to kill them?
yea. because "300 ships bait fleet" is sitting cloaked 30km away. as tackler took target and d-scan is spiked by enemy ships fleet just uncloaks and prepares to fight. By the time gank lands on grid sensor recalibration finished and fleet is ready to action.... Tackler see what's going on but nothing can stop ships already in warp.....
Well. i'm starting to like this idea.
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Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:56:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Stabs? Lol. That would seriously reduce dps and also isk/h.Cans? Good luck with that if you are moving.
Asteroids? I'd hate to get stuck on one if I have to warp off.
D-scan? I did that while living in a wh, but it's maddening.
I think the bolded part shows where the real problem lies, and it's not the fault of local, afk cloaking, whatever.
You don't want to adapt. You want easy comfort mode, in null sec.
Null is not wh, it's not that profitable, if by doing sanctums in null I only get a slight increase in profit from level 4 missions, risk should also increase only slightly.
For outright removal in local to make sense you should at the very least double the bounties.
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Takamori Maruyama
Amarr
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:57:00 -
[86]
Hey guys whats going on in this intelligent and logical thread?
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Eternum Praetorian
PWNED Factor
The Seventh Day
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:58:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Jenn aSide
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
The problem is not that it would be a certain suicide to rat in null without local, but that there's no good reason to increase your chance of losing a ship over only slight increase in profit over highsec. Not to mention wh's are more profitable and if suddenly all null is without local, you might as well go there, as they would become safer.
Well said. That's the main point.
It's not that I don't see things ever changing, hell, GOOD changes would be great. Life in null isn't supposed to be safe or even easy.
But there is a point when you go to far. Delayed local in null sec while not changing the insane amounts you can make in the safety of hi-sec or the myriad ways you can already gank null sec ratters would have a chilling effect on null sec. That's not an improvement at all.
Me, I'd adjust just like I have after the anom nerf, but there are already to few targets in null to begin with.
NOT WELL SAID
This is complete bull****. Gathering together and defending both your space and each other would improve the game. If you want more isk and less community by all means go to empire, if less people like you lived in null I might be arsed to go take some myself under new mechanics.
And less supercarriers online ofc...
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ITTigerClawIK
Amarr
Galactic Rangers
Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2011.08.19 13:59:00 -
[88]
to first quote wikipedia.
A covert operation (also known as CoveOps or covert ops) is a military, intelligence or law enforcement operation that is carried clandestinely and, often, outside of official channels. Covert operations aim to fulfill their mission objectives without any parties knowing who sponsored or carried out the operation.
know on to the point of; im pretty sure that local intel negates the purpose of carrying out an operation undetected thus why you get mass hysteria whenever someone enters local and you cant see the guy, the purpose of a cov ops ship is to go in undetected, local makes that impossable.
if i had it my way there would be no more local in ANY system and the scanner would be a hell of alot more advanced.
This is coming from a carebear whos director of science and industry btw.
Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy
Personal information removed from sig. Zymurgist |
Jaari Val'Dara
Caldari
Deep Space Nomads Corp
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Posted - 2011.08.19 14:05:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Eternum Praetorian
Originally by: Jenn aSide
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
The problem is not that it would be a certain suicide to rat in null without local, but that there's no good reason to increase your chance of losing a ship over only slight increase in profit over highsec. Not to mention wh's are more profitable and if suddenly all null is without local, you might as well go there, as they would become safer.
Well said. That's the main point.
It's not that I don't see things ever changing, hell, GOOD changes would be great. Life in null isn't supposed to be safe or even easy.
But there is a point when you go to far. Delayed local in null sec while not changing the insane amounts you can make in the safety of hi-sec or the myriad ways you can already gank null sec ratters would have a chilling effect on null sec. That's not an improvement at all.
Me, I'd adjust just like I have after the anom nerf, but there are already to few targets in null to begin with.
NOT WELL SAID
This is complete bull****. Gathering together and defending both your space and each other would improve the game. If you want more isk and less community by all means go to empire, if less people like you lived in null I might be arsed to go take some myself under new mechanics.
And less supercarriers online ofc...
For people to want to defend that space, it needs to be worth defending.
Give us proper intel tools (dscan is not one of them) increase null profitability and I will be happy to see the local go, until then removing local doesn't make sense.
Agree about the supercarriers though.
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Aelius
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
Dark Matter Coalition
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Posted - 2011.08.19 14:06:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Ingvar Angst
Originally by: Jaari Val'Dara
Stabs? Lol. That would seriously reduce dps and also isk/h.Cans? Good luck with that if you are moving.
Asteroids? I'd hate to get stuck on one if I have to warp off.
D-scan? I did that while living in a wh, but it's maddening.
I think the bolded part shows where the real problem lies, and it's not the fault of local, afk cloaking, whatever.
You don't want to adapt. You want easy comfort mode, in null sec.
Correct... people just want null to be high isk, low risk and everything done to correct that is bad... Personally i wouldn't mind that CCP removed the bounties on highsec missions and make them lowsec/null exclusive.
Plus 0.0 on high risk (no local) would make the rewards must more valuable since if you are lucky to find a named spawn, the profit would be much greater from the drops. Not to mention the profit from mining ABC on 0.0.
___________________________________________
Hilmar in his childhood
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