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Stella21 Zateki
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Posted - 2011.08.21 20:28:00 -
[1]
Now ecm are basicaly best electronic warfare, it has low cap usage, it makes ppl feel useles and there's no real counter to it except more ecm. So I would like to write here something I was thinking on how to solve that problem and to counter it nad here are few ideas: 1. Make it have larger cap usage 2. Put stacking penalty 50% on ecm jamm strenght when you put more than 1 jammer on target, now you can just put 4-5 jammers and don't worry about ppl getting any lock 3. Make ECM batterys have bigger cpu requirements , because now poses in hisec are just invulnerable if you don't have more than 10 ppl
If anyone has some more ideas, write them here and hope ccp will take them in consideration.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.08.21 20:50:00 -
[2]
So, how do you propose to buff ECM ships to make up for crippling the one thing they're good at?
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Robert Caldera
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Posted - 2011.08.21 21:09:00 -
[3]
havent seen those "nerf ECM" threads for a while.
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Stella21 Zateki
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Posted - 2011.08.21 21:28:00 -
[4]
well ecm boats will still be able to jamm but often called chance based jamm will come to play, most arguments about ecm is that it is chance based tell me what are my chances to not get jammed when someone puts 4 or 5 ecms on me?
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.08.21 22:01:00 -
[5]
Quote: well ecm boats will still be able to jamm
Yup, just badly. How will you compensate for the fact the only thing they're good at is broken?
Originally by: Stella21 Zateki but often called chance based jamm will come to play, most arguments about ecm is that it is chance based tell me what are my chances to not get jammed when someone puts 4 or 5 ecms on me?
And how often is an ECM ship going to put all of its jammers on you? If you get jumped solo by a gang, you're screwed either way, if you're in a gang then their EWAR will be spread around your fleet.
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Zarnak Wulf
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Posted - 2011.08.21 22:27:00 -
[6]
Came in expecting a conversation about tracking disruptors, remote sensor dampners and target painters. Left disappointed.
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Stella21 Zateki
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Posted - 2011.08.21 23:08:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Yup, just badly. How will you compensate for the fact the only thing they're good at is broken?
I would say it's broken now, lets small gang of 2 battlecruisers and lets say battleship is looking for fight in losec and they encoutner 4 battlecruisers and get into fight and falcon shows up jamms battleship and bc and game over, without that falcon odds are a litle bit in favour to 4 bc's but other gang has still some chances to win, falcon comes chances are 0
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.08.21 23:25:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 21/08/2011 23:25:43 So the gang that brings something other than pure tank and gank wins through a superior strategy. I'm really not seeing the problem here.
By the way, hint to the clueless, it's perfectly possible to deal with ECM ships if you bring something other than "herp derp more Hurricanes".
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Stella21 Zateki
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Posted - 2011.08.22 00:47:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Stella21 Zateki on 22/08/2011 00:51:11 so your solution to problem is bring more ppl make blob so falcon can't jamm all? my main point is that ecm shouldn't kill small gang warfare, this way ecm boats will have to put 1 jamm on target and hope it jamms and spread out jamms, so if they encounter small gang 1 ship shouldn't be able to cripple them all
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Nezumiiro Noneko
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Posted - 2011.08.22 01:51:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Stella21 Zateki Edited by: Stella21 Zateki on 22/08/2011 00:51:11 so your solution to problem is bring more ppl make blob so falcon can't jamm all? my main point is that ecm shouldn't kill small gang warfare, this way ecm boats will have to put 1 jamm on target and hope it jamms and spread out jamms, so if they encounter small gang 1 ship shouldn't be able to cripple them all
ecm sponsors small fleet warfare. A properly skilled and supported falcon can help ensure a fleet has a chance against fleets of greater size. Why your low sec peeps like it. They get paid by pvp. Their ships not blowing up and yours are do to jamming...moar profit.
To counter you don't need a blob. Just need....wait for.....a falcon. get falcon wars going on. falcon versus falcon, both pilots will be burning at least 1 ecm on each other till one of them is dead. Good news for drake pilots....the falcons will be using their most likely only 1 dedicated gravimetric jammer on the falcon. means the drake most likely will have to burn through a multispec which is weaker.
A counter to falcon while staying small scale is also to have fleet variety. Thanks to fotm amarr and minny with a touch of draaaaake....can stack decks. Harbs and canes, I know I will see them in space. Same with drakes. I to stack a deck could say Ima take a chance and not run a gallente jam. Moar multispec (just in case wrong) or 1 more racial specific since I know I have better odds of seeing 2 canes than 2 bruti or myrms and could double up ladar ecm and not regret that decision most times.
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Jaigar
Mom 'n' Pop Ammo Shoppe Transmission Lost
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Posted - 2011.08.22 02:44:00 -
[11]
Since no one else has said it I will: Falcons,rooks, and scorps all have crap for tank. Ever see what happens with a 1400mm maelstrom gets a good hit off on a Falcon?
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Nezumiiro Noneko
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Posted - 2011.08.22 03:23:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jaigar Since no one else has said it I will: Falcons,rooks, and scorps all have crap for tank. Ever see what happens with a 1400mm maelstrom gets a good hit off on a Falcon?
even better...some sebo speed scripted, fleet boosted, took the time to learn sig analysis to 5 and the mael has a small chance to lock and drop while the falcon still in his decloak cool down. Unless motivated, cloaky 5 not trained and mr. falcon sweats a little with the longer decloak. Especially if drones on the field. Seconds on the bc's target lock if set up right...can be more than enough time to target, send the drones and see how they do while riding out jams. Falcons friends will be killing the ships....not anti drone detail. And them rails on the falcon....not exactly uber drone killers. Medium sized bore for the crap tracking (well crappier tracking, hybrids rant...insert it here lol).
More fun with falcon...usually run as an armour tanker. Not the fastest ship as a shiled tanker...armour plates don't help it. Yes it can jam you. Gives you 2 choices. ride out jams or gtfo. Break tackles if there and haul ass. Since op's setup is bc vs bc....odds in their favor for this maybe. The piewats won't be nano'd (need to tank gate guns)....they should. Worst case, its breaks down to cap wars as that falcon has to keep up mwd and the jams. If a hybrid falcon....there goes more cap. And if really smart....all 3 fly in separate directions. falcon and company has to choose who to stay in range of. means 1 out fo 3 is dying.....better than 3 out of 3.
Eve pvp...cold isn't it lol. It will be the bs most likely...but nfi why a bs is being brought on a nano bc roam in the first place in op's setup.
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Stella21 Zateki
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Posted - 2011.08.22 09:53:00 -
[13]
so your solution is: don't go to pvp if you don't have falcon or ecm boat? that's sad why should 1 ship make so much diference, as for tank look at arazu if you want to see weak tank
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Sigras
Gallente Conglomo
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Posted - 2011.08.22 09:59:00 -
[14]
My thought on this is to give pilots something to do that can counter ECM, In theory this module already exists in the ECCM, but it seems that this module fails where it's needed most, the small ships.
Frigates start with basically no sensor strength and the ECCM doubles it; the problem is that double nothing is still nothing.
My idea is to change the ECCM from a +96% bonus to a +50% passive bonus, and when the module is activated, you immediately get unjammed.
The small ships would get the biggest bonus because it can re-lock the fastest, but I think this would provide a marked improvement to the game because it would reduce the feelings of helplessness when you get jammed because you have something to do to help yourself.
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Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2011.08.22 10:00:00 -
[15]
2008 just phoned - they want their nerf ECM thread back...
ECM got changed into a way where they are still effecient but certainly not overpowered.
After these changes 99% of the alts started training logistics instead of falcons and it's actually rare to see ecm's fielded in small battles. It always sucks to get hit by ECM, but there are many easy counters if you prepare yourself. -
I'm a nice guy!! But plz hook me up with some pew pew... |
Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.08.22 10:18:00 -
[16]
Sensor damps, ECCM, FoF missiles, drones. These are all things I've seen work vs. ECM ships, and most of them against me in my old Falcon.
Like I said, try varying your fleet composition a little more than just "OMG MORE HURRICANES".
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The Offerer
Minmatar
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Posted - 2011.08.22 11:14:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington Sensor damps, ECCM, FoF missiles, drones.
Which reminds me...
Back when I was living in 0.0 space, hostile Falcon and Sabre went roaming around our "carebear" systems. Their tactics was to jump to the system, immediately warp to the station and put a bubble up. Carebears land on the station when they see hostiles in local, get stuck on the bubble, jammed by Falcon and killed by a Sabre. Pretty neat tactics.
Well, if they wanted to play, I could play. I've switched to my slightly modified PvE Nighthawk, loaded FoFs and went directly inside their trap. A couple of volleys later they called me "retro" and left the area.
Now, the question is, if FoFs are effective against ECM, as shown in the example above, why did they called me "retro" for using them? The only obvious answer is that today's players are too lazy to think outside of the EFT-box.
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Nezumiiro Noneko
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Posted - 2011.08.22 12:51:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Nezumiiro Noneko on 22/08/2011 12:53:47
Originally by: Stella21 Zateki so your solution is: don't go to pvp if you don't have falcon or ecm boat? that's sad why should 1 ship make so much diference, as for tank look at arazu if you want to see weak tank
never that cut and dry. Just saying falcon on the field gets interesting. If flown right and the pilot flies it proper (Recon 5, e-war skills 5, etc) especially. But that is most recons.
TBH...falcons not high on my list of hates ships to go againt. Now rapiers...part of the reason I x-trained minmatar was them. Died to lots of them. They have dps, speed, and an annoying ass web bonus. Leave the rapier a bubble....and its quite content to pick off smaller easier prey (bubble handles the warp disruption part, recon 5 gives a 40 km web range) basically the pilot has to sit in fall off range and laugh as you squirm in a lr web as you fail horribly to burn out of the bubble before you go boom.
Arazu's got my respect as well. Took the arazu bait many times...tough tanks set up right. Will last till the covert cyno pops and his freinds show up for sure most of the time
Falcons tbh..little bit of ballz and luck and its an easy kill. Crow tackler and my drake tag teamed a falcon once. crwo got on target fast for point...I came in for the dps. The random chance gods hated the falcon....no jams were sticking and lol dps is lol dps. Having come off several bad run ins with arazus and rapiers I was amazed at how quickly thier tank folds in. Pure luck with the jams...but I'll take it.
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Stella21 Zateki
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Posted - 2011.08.22 17:21:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Stella21 Zateki on 22/08/2011 17:22:56 you all talking like falcon will go solo on you, he never will, he will always go with suport who will hold you while he laughts from 50km and waves and you can sit and hope it will end fast, why don't you get cooldown from using ecm module on target that could also work like upon completing sucesfull jamm on target it can't be jammed for 10s and unsuccesfull jamm atemp you get 5s cooldown. |
Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.08.22 18:35:00 -
[20]
Quote: you all talking like falcon will go solo on you
Umm, no, I wasn't. Try learning to read sometime. The point I made that you've neatly ignored is that there are ways to deal with ECM ships - try using them sometime, rather than just bringing 20 Hurricanes.
Quote: Blah blah blah more nerf whines
Because ECM is already chance based. If you're putting a cooldown like that in, put it in for sensor damps and tracking disruptors as well. Those can be just as crippling if used right, and they work all the time at whatever you point them at.
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Ineka
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Posted - 2011.08.22 19:10:00 -
[21]
I want my Damps to be better, pliiiiiz
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Feligast
Minmatar GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.08.22 19:14:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Stella21 Zateki So I would like to write here something I was thinking on how to solve that problem and to counter it nad here are few ideas:
I have a better idea. How about you stop being horrible at this game?
Originally by: Stella21 Zateki 3. Make ECM batterys have bigger cpu requirements , because now poses in hisec are just invulnerable if you don't have more than 10 ppl
... why on God's green Earth would you even think about shooting a POS with less than 50, much less 10, people? Are you THAT masochistic? If so, just drive nails into your own eyes, it would be less painful.
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Sports Bet
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Posted - 2011.08.22 19:54:00 -
[23]
I promised myself never to shoot posses again. My mobile actually translated posses to ****ed.. anyway, the only thing i d investigate is if instead of yes/no Ecm actually decreases your max locks. So instead of a weak ecm having 10% chance of full lockdown, it would have a chance of decreasing locks. Strong specialized ecm ships will still disable all locks, but ships having ecm as bonus mod would only have a chance to unlock but not disable the ship
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Bubanni
Cryptonym Sleepers Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2011.08.22 21:44:00 -
[24]
I personly think a way to balance the way ECM currently work would be decrease cycle time and capacitor use... decrease ECM strength and most importantly decrease time the target is jammed... I am thinking something like 5 sec cycles? both on the module and the jamming time... personly think ECM should only break locks for short time, not permanently, and should be combined with sensor damps to be truely effective... (ECM alone can be too powerful in current state on a ship like the falcon/rook... scorpion or widow, even if it is only chance based)
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Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari draketrain
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Posted - 2011.08.23 05:15:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Laechyd Eldgorn on 23/08/2011 05:15:32 imo warp disruptor, web and neut is best ewar this far, they're used even on unbonused ships
nerf minmatar, gallente and amarr
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Sports Bet
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Posted - 2011.08.23 07:29:00 -
[26]
My idea:
Current System - New system 100% chance for lockdown - 100% chance of locking down each lock individually 90% chance for lockdown - 90% chance of locking down each lock individually 80% chance for lockdown - 80% chance of locking down each lock individually
etc.
That means if you currently only jam 1 out of 10 times, and the enemy could have 10 locks, you have a good chance of breaking 1 lock (meaning he can only have 9 locks) Each lock would be considered individually, so there's a 1 out of 10 chance his lock to you breaks. However, he'll be able to relock you.
Similarly, if you currently have a jam chance of 5 out of 10, and the enemy has 7 locks, each lock has 50% chance of being jammed. That means it's likely he'll lose 3 or 4 locks, but it's also possible he loses all 7, or none at all. Again, it's randomly decided which locks are broken, so there's still a very good chance a logistics ship will lose lock on that one ship who desperately need reps.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2011.08.23 10:34:00 -
[27]
So, once again, how do all the nerf callers suggest buffing ECM ships to compensate for the fact their only plus point has been nerfed?
All other racial EWAR ships have multiple functions - if you nerfed tracking disruptors the curse would still be excellent, for example. ECM ships on the other hand (with the sole exception of the Rook) are specialised into doing one thing, and doing it well.
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