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Alice Katsuko
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2011.08.26 20:30:00 -
[31]
Op, would it be possible for you to provide the raw data, either as an Excel sheet or ASCII text or whatnot, please?
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Blazde
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.26 20:57:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Taedrin CCP has reason to hate RMTers due to several reasons: - Every penny that RMTers earn is a penny that CCP could have earned through the sale of PLEX and/or Aurum. - RMTers pay for EVE with stolen credit cards, which get charged back to CCP, ultimately COSTING CCP money since not only do they lose subscription fees that were paid to them, but they also have to pay chargeback fees.
RMTers pay for EVE with PLEX bought with botted ISK, from legitimate players with valid credit cards who want to buy ISK for their $ from CCP
You would have a point if RMTing hadn't been legalised with PLEX, and infact the stolen CC chargebacks is probably one of the main reasons CCP introduced PLEX. CC chargebacks are a huge financial strain on lots of online games and if you can make them all but disappear by letting those people who would otherwised use stolen cards play for free then you will
Originally by: CCP Sreegs The first question is one I haven't FULLY researched but the general consensus is that removing bots actually increases CCP's income because we have more happy customers. The idea that we would want people to bot for $15 is a false one, though I could see why some people would leap to that conclusion.
This is a pretty half-hearted rebuff. At best it shows that CCP doesn't think it has a huge incentive to reduce botting and definetely not an incentive that's measurable in dollars. There are dozens of ways to make customers happy and they have to be balanced with the costs of doing so
It's not hard to imagine that anti-botting is quite low on the list of priorities especially if there is only a 'general consensus' that it's even a good idea in the first place (financially)
Unholy-rage was a publicity stunt 2 years ago. It was very welcome at the time and it demonstrated the scale of the problem, so what since? _
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.26 21:02:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Blazde
Unholy-rage was a publicity stunt 2 years ago. It was very welcome at the time and it demonstrated the scale of the problem, so what since?
They banned 3000 accounts in 2 weeks a few months back and haven't stopped.
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Taedrin
Gallente Kushan Industrial
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Posted - 2011.08.26 21:20:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Taedrin on 26/08/2011 21:21:08
Originally by: Alice Katsuko Op, would it be possible for you to provide the raw data, either as an Excel sheet or ASCII text or whatnot, please?
Done. I put it in a comma delimited file, but your spreadsheet program of your choice should have no problem importing it. Plus CSV is much better for scripts than excel files. Check post #2 in this thread for the link.
Originally by: Blazde
Originally by: Taedrin CCP has reason to hate RMTers due to several reasons: - Every penny that RMTers earn is a penny that CCP could have earned through the sale of PLEX and/or Aurum. - RMTers pay for EVE with stolen credit cards, which get charged back to CCP, ultimately COSTING CCP money since not only do they lose subscription fees that were paid to them, but they also have to pay chargeback fees.
RMTers pay for EVE with PLEX bought with botted ISK, from legitimate players with valid credit cards who want to buy ISK for their $ from CCP
You would have a point if RMTing hadn't been legalised with PLEX, and infact the stolen CC chargebacks is probably one of the main reasons CCP introduced PLEX. CC chargebacks are a huge financial strain on lots of online games and if you can make them all but disappear by letting those people who would otherwised use stolen cards play for free then you will
Here's the thing though. A stolen credit card is "free". The RMTer is paying for their subscription with resources which are not their own. It costs them nothing to use a stolen credit card (so long as they can evade law enforcement).
Paying for their subscription with PLEX purchased with ISK provides an opportunity cost, as the ISK that was used to purchase the PLEX can not be sold to customers. An RMTer who pays for their account with PLEX is actually paying $8 for their account through PLEX, vs. $0 with a stolen credit card which they can use without fear of retribution so long as they evade law enforcement.
Originally by: CCP Sreegs The first question is one I haven't FULLY researched but the general consensus is that removing bots actually increases CCP's income because we have more happy customers. The idea that we would want people to bot for $15 is a false one, though I could see why some people would leap to that conclusion.
This is a pretty half-hearted rebuff. At best it shows that CCP doesn't think it has a huge incentive to reduce botting and definetely not an incentive that's measurable in dollars. There are dozens of ways to make customers happy and they have to be balanced with the costs of doing so
This is because there are too many hidden costs associated with permitting bots in EVE Online. CCP is 100% correct to say that the incentive for banning bots can not be measured in dollars. Any attempt to do so will produce meaningless numbers which you would be foolish to make decisions off of.
Quote:
It's not hard to imagine that anti-botting is quite low on the list of priorities especially if there is only a 'general consensus' that it's even a good idea in the first place (financially)
Unholy-rage was a publicity stunt 2 years ago. It was very welcome at the time and it demonstrated the scale of the problem, so what since?
There was Unholy-rage 2.0, a few months ago CCP waged war against bot coders and bot selling website's forums were flooded with people claiming that they got caught, and a couple times a year you will see threads pop on on the forums with people claiming that hundreds of bots have mysteriously disappeared from a high-sec botting system. CCP *DOES* ban bots. Whether or not CCP is doing enough (or can do better) is another question, though. ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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Blazde
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.26 21:21:00 -
[35]
Originally by: baltec1 They banned 3000 accounts in 2 weeks a few months back and haven't stopped.
So it's still as big a problem as it was 2 years ago. I mean what have they actually done about it?
I sympathise because it's a very hard problem to tackle but they can do a lot better than they are. The solution isn't banning masses of accounts now and then (after their two temp-ban warnings ), it's stopping the botting happening in the first place _
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.26 21:24:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Blazde
So it's still as big a problem as it was 2 years ago. I mean what have they actually done about it?
I sympathise because it's a very hard problem to tackle but they can do a lot better than they are. The solution isn't banning masses of accounts now and then (after their two temp-ban warnings ), it's stopping the botting happening in the first place
Well the ice belts are not as full as they once were
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Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.08.26 21:38:00 -
[37]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Blazde
So it's still as big a problem as it was 2 years ago. I mean what have they actually done about it?
I sympathise because it's a very hard problem to tackle but they can do a lot better than they are. The solution isn't banning masses of accounts now and then (after their two temp-ban warnings ), it's stopping the botting happening in the first place
Well the ice belts are not as full as they once were
Must be talkin about low/0.0 ones, I go into Brapelille a any given time an there are 120-230 ppl there leechin off the ice -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP. |
Blazde
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2011.08.26 21:39:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Blazde on 26/08/2011 21:39:22
Originally by: Taedrin Here's the thing though. A stolen credit card is "free". The RMTer is paying for their subscription with resources which are not their own. It costs them nothing to use a stolen credit card (so long as they can evade law enforcement)
Exactly: So long as they can evade law enforcement. Which often you can't for the extended period of time required to do efficient RMTing in a game like EVE. Within a month or two the owner of the card sees the extra payments on their statement, calls it in stolen which winds up with the account being permenantly banned
Here's what they do: Setup a new account, spend a few weeks training (raven / torps / trading skills / whatever), then spend a few months quietly botting many billions of ISK. So long as they've paid with PLEX legitimately, are careful about botting only 8-10 hours a day, use good software and so on then they're probably under-the-radar. Even if they did get caught botting it's a short ban - no probs. Then they can offload their ISK for profit and the few 400mils for PLEX is a trivial investment to secure the payoff
Use a CC and you risk that whole process being interrupted before any payoff at all. Much more costly than PLEX _
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baltec1
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Posted - 2011.08.26 21:47:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Must be talkin about low/0.0 ones, I go into Brapelille a any given time an there are 120-230 ppl there leechin off the ice
I can only talk about caldari space. Used to be able to spot several bot groups in each ice belt. They always operate in groups of 1 orca and 4 to 5 machs always following the same movements.
Most of them are gone
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Sullen Skoung
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Posted - 2011.08.26 21:51:00 -
[40]
lol then they seem to have just moved to Gallente space -------- CCP knows better than the players whats good for their game. SOE knew what was best for SWG too. Better than all those players that left too. This is your NGE/CU moment CCP. |
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.08.27 00:27:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Sun Liping You might want to compare weekdays instead of actual dates. Weekend playtimes certainly are different than working days. 1st Jan 2009 = Thursday, 1st Jan 2010 = Friday, 1st Jan 2011 = Saturday
I was thinking the same thing.
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Taedrin
Gallente Kushan Industrial
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Posted - 2011.08.27 03:22:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: Sun Liping You might want to compare weekdays instead of actual dates. Weekend playtimes certainly are different than working days. 1st Jan 2009 = Thursday, 1st Jan 2010 = Friday, 1st Jan 2011 = Saturday
I was thinking the same thing.
It shouldn't change the overall trends, as comparing weekdays to weekends will be offset by comparing weekends to weekdays. ----------
Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident"
Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
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AnzacPaul
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2011.08.27 04:17:00 -
[43]
Originally by: CCP Loktofeit
Originally by: AnzacPaul
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Originally by: Taedrin actually causing players to leave/accounts to unsub.
OR it shows the downward trend as they ban the **** out of bots as they say they are
I wonder if CCP discovered say a large number like 20,000 confirmed bots, they would ban them all..... Thats alot of lost revenue......
But, in some cases, a lot of server resources freed up for the actual players.
Very interesting, but 20,000 accounts is still $3.6million a year in subscription fees. I'd take a guess the losses would outweigh the savings. But I am just speaking hypothetically, we all know theres not really 20000 bots in the game.......
______
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Donald MacRury
Gallente LankTech
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Posted - 2011.08.27 04:53:00 -
[44]
Originally by: baltec1
Originally by: Sullen Skoung
Must be talkin about low/0.0 ones, I go into Brapelille a any given time an there are 120-230 ppl there leechin off the ice
I can only talk about caldari space. Used to be able to spot several bot groups in each ice belt. They always operate in groups of 1 orca and 4 to 5 machs always following the same movements.
Most of them are gone
This is funny. I've mined in Brapelille may times with an Orca and several machs or hulk and i'm not a bot. Same thing for other people I know who mine there.
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Xergash
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Posted - 2011.08.27 11:59:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Donald MacRury This is funny. I've mined in Brapelille may times with an Orca and several machs or hulk and i'm not a bot. Same thing for other people I know who mine there.
This poster clearly is a bot, if you pay close attention you can see it by how he dots the i and the sentence structure.
/reports botter |
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