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Spaceman Jack
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.09.25 20:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
And I was flying a supercap.
She was right, of course. Eve ships look tiny.
The recent change to camera angles and distance helped, but something still holding back the massive scale of eve. Big ships just dont feel big.
This video I just saw of freespace EVEmod give a good relation of size, but EVE itself still does not http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbbfHZFYt5s
Collision disances are one of the problems, ships just cant get close enough to each other to make a difference. Frigates should be able to get up and in the crevices of carrier and stations, but you get bumped out when you are stil quite a distance.
What can be done? |
Jim Era
3663
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Posted - 2012.09.25 20:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
wat
do not question me. |
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9 Quantum Cafe
102
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Posted - 2012.09.25 20:20:00 -
[3] - Quote
Did you mean "wat?"? Or was that "wat" rhetorical? Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
628
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Posted - 2012.09.25 20:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
When I was quite young one chick ask to see it, so I showed it to her. She yelled it's purple and ran away.
That's about as much as I can relate. Never did figure out how she saw purple. Do not assume-áanything above this line-áwas typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient. Nerf it cause I can't fly it. I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
stoicfaux
1676
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Posted - 2012.09.25 20:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:Never did figure out how she saw purple. Doppler effect. Next time don't thrust forward.
As for the OP, if ships had an appropriate sense of scale, ships would be tiny compared to asteroids, stations, planets, stars, etc.. It would take the focus away from the ships too much.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head. Feature Request: -áDamnation Ship Codpiece-áfor the NeX store.
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TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries EPIC Alliance
321
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Posted - 2012.09.25 20:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just make everything tiny and have done with it. But leave weapon sizes the same. I want to see dread guns bigger than dreads. "We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming. |
Solhild
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
829
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Posted - 2012.09.25 20:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
As they say in the trade, "It's not the size of the nail, what matters most is the size of the hammer you use to bang it in with!" |
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp
2815
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Posted - 2012.09.25 20:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
My first reaction was
After I read the full context my reaction was
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of the New Order's quest to conquer all highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
TokiWartooth Joringer
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
9
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Posted - 2012.09.25 20:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lord Ryan wrote:When I was quite young one chick ask to see it, so I showed it to her. She yelled it's purple and ran away.
That's about as much as I can relate. Never did figure out how she saw purple. So your the man in the Barney costume! |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2307
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Posted - 2012.09.25 21:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
"It looks so small" "A genius throws a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that he's going to die choking in a maze of smoke and flame. A hero drinks a Molotov cocktail and soon realizes that if he does a split in midair, he can hit twice as many zombies per kick. Drunk hero wins again, wusses." ~Cracked.com |
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Soi Mala
Whacky Waving Inflatable Flailing Arm Tubemen
170
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Posted - 2012.09.25 22:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
:) |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
1578
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Posted - 2012.09.25 22:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Spaceman Jack wrote: Frigates should be able to get up and in the crevices of carrier and stations Mmmm.... go on... Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
No More Heroes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1416
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Posted - 2012.09.26 01:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
I WANNA CLING TO A SUPERCAP IN A RIFTER LIKE THE MILLENIUM FALCON ON THAT STAR DESTROYER IN EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. . |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1441
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Posted - 2012.09.26 01:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
No More Heroes wrote:I WANNA CLING TO A SUPERCAP IN A RIFTER LIKE THE MILLENIUM FALCON ON THAT STAR DESTROYER IN EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. imagine... a frigate fleet all 'clamping' themselves to the side of a capital ship and self destructing
(if star trek ever taught me anything is that you can eject your 'warp core' to kill the enemy and safely escape at slower-than-light-speeds) TK is recruiting |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1750
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Posted - 2012.09.26 02:48:00 -
[15] - Quote
That's what she... Oh... Never mind... |
Webvan
State War Academy Caldari State
77
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Posted - 2012.09.26 03:50:00 -
[16] - Quote
Spaceman Jack wrote: This video I just saw of freespace EVEmod give a good relation of size, but EVE itself still does not
Well yeah, that's freespace, where capitals look like capitals. I've been playing the babylon project for years, and yeah there is a big difference between the engines. Camera/fov tweaks might help some. And yes, collision detection.
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Gorn Arming
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
49
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Posted - 2012.09.26 04:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
A big part of it is the terrible texture resolution on larger ships. |
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
312
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Posted - 2012.09.26 05:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Gorn Arming wrote:A big part of it is the terrible texture resolution on larger ships.
That's the issue with larger models. They tend to stretch the textures a lot. Figure your average High Resolution texture is 1024 by 1024, and that it is literally wrapped around the whole model. On a small ship, that might look fine, but on a large model.. not so much. It was pretty obvious, even on Battleships, up until V3. Maybe I was actually sleeping in front of my computer and dreamed I posted. Certainly, it's not there now. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
757
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Posted - 2012.09.26 06:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
I want my hud to look a little bit more like that, less the jerk yelling for help and also better music
That should be all. brb |
baltec1
Bat Country
2276
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Posted - 2012.09.26 06:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
TokiWartooth Joringer wrote:Lord Ryan wrote:When I was quite young one chick ask to see it, so I showed it to her. She yelled it's purple and ran away.
That's about as much as I can relate. Never did figure out how she saw purple. So your the man in the Barney costume!
Wait Barney isn't real? |
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Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
86
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Posted - 2012.09.26 06:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
They probably run into similar probs with the bouncing boxes (I'm referring to texture sizes above).. the physics simulation that runs on the server has only so much detail until it's too much and it can't run as fast as needed. If they where to increase the detail on the bouncing boxes the simulation would have to keep track of much more data..
As for the textures vs. shipsize.. they once offered bigger nebula background maps for people who can run them (beefy machines/gpus) .. maybe it's possible to get something similar for space object textures? Just don't know how they go for the detail of the space objects.. tesselation/bump mapping might help, but they probably already using it, as we could see in that tech reel of that sansha carrier being bombarded by small roids 6-9 months ago. |
Samoth Egnoled
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
53
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Posted - 2012.09.26 06:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
I do feel like EVE's ships are too small, it may be that the rest of the world is so damn huge that makes them feel this way.
But even from ship to ship scale, i.e frigate to battleship, the battleship doesnt seem big enough. Then Capitals, these are ships that can hold up from 2 bs at a time, yet they dont seem to have any visible place where a bs could comfortably dock up.
Super caps, Yet again faaar too small, The word titan brings big thoughts into my head, like they should dwarf stations, you should be sitting 250km from one and still feel right next to it.
And dont get me started on weapon ranges.... |
Jojo Booties
4
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Posted - 2012.09.26 06:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
I have noticed that some of the ships look out of scale with others. I must take a closer look and see if this is true across all ships. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
219
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Posted - 2012.09.26 06:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ships fly too fast for your brain to process the size correctly. It is a common optical illusion. |
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
4911
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Posted - 2012.09.26 06:51:00 -
[25] - Quote
Make the camera lock and unable to zoom out?
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Jojo Booties
4
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Posted - 2012.09.26 07:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
I suppose I could use my magnify tool on the larger vessels. |
marVLs
34
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Posted - 2012.09.26 07:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Yeah for me it's the biggest graphic problem in EVE, everything is too small, You got ship that's few km long but it feels like a kids toy...
1. Stations are too small 2. Stations are too far away from planets, landing points for ships near planets etc are too far away (afraid You could collide with planet? good, new tactic for using enemys momentum to suck them in planet gravity) 3. Bumping big mamma ships with tiny things 4. Big ships turning so stupid quick when hit align or warp 5. ****** textures ressolutions on bigger boats and too small camera zoom 6. Use some tricks on camera like this "dolly zoom" video on yt
Seriously freespace EVEmod just **** EVE... |
Gillia Winddancer
Shiny Noble Crown Services
91
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Posted - 2012.09.26 07:27:00 -
[28] - Quote
Well, Freespace always did get scales down absolutely correctly so :D
And I pretty much agree with EVE's scale issue. Big ships don't feel big in the slightest. |
kerradeph
THORN Syndicate THORN Alliance
10
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Posted - 2012.09.26 07:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
yeah, on the note of ranges and stuff like that, I don't see why they don't just multiply ranges, speeds, and grid size by a factor of somewhere between 10 and 1000 or so. |
MaiLina KaTar
Katar Corp
40
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Posted - 2012.09.26 07:49:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ships appear small because the camera is always locked and centered on them. The only way you will get a real sense of scale is with a free camera. This is why you get that sense of scale when you look at a trailer of eve or use the advanced camera options and toy around with them a bit.
An option for free cam placement ala Homeworld would be awesome not only in terms of visuals. |
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Webvan
State War Academy Caldari State
77
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Posted - 2012.09.26 08:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
Well you can see the difference in ship size when you cycle through them in the hanger. It's a fair difference such as between a frig and a BS (here is a chart). I still think it's a camera problem though, for the most part. Sure, textures are low, or you couldn't even fly through jita as directx has it's limitations. Also just to mention, a destroyer in EVE is bigger than a galaxy class starship in ST. Scale is crazy in EVE. |
TharOkha
0asis Group
67
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Posted - 2012.09.26 08:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
Problem is also in textures. Where frigate has nice textures and "on scale",but on titan for example, one window is large as cruiser. So bigger the ship is it should have larger (more detailed) textures. GÇ£If reality can destroy the dream, why shouldn't the dream destroy reality?GÇ¥ |
Jojo Booties
4
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Posted - 2012.09.26 08:50:00 -
[33] - Quote
After a good close look, I can see that the scales of the ships are nowhere near correct, but I guess it has something to do with the eve engine not being able to produce pixies and goblins. |
Apoctasy
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.09.26 10:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
There isn't really a way to fix any of this. Size is just relative.
You can see how huge your dread is compared to a cruiser only if the cruiser is sitting next to you. THEN you get a sense of size. Otherwise if you are floating about in space in your dread, what do you have to compare your size to? I don't think this is a problem devs can solve |
Jojo Booties
7
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Posted - 2012.09.26 12:25:00 -
[35] - Quote
It would be a massive job because as said, they would have to increase the size of stations too. A battleship twice the size of a station wouldn't wash. |
MaiLina KaTar
Katar Corp
40
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Posted - 2012.09.26 12:33:00 -
[36] - Quote
The sizes are mostly correct. It's purely a camera thing.
If you were able to freely move the camera around you'd immediately see that a Titan is ginormous compared to a cruiser due to parallax and such.
You never get a real sense of scale because the camera is always locked on your ship and moves with it. |
Iris Bravemount
The Golden Gaze
84
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Posted - 2012.09.26 12:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
Orbit a titan at 500 in a frigate and tell me you don't feel dwarfed. I accidentally... the bookmark. How much is it worth? |
Jojo Booties
7
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Posted - 2012.09.26 13:19:00 -
[38] - Quote
Iris Bravemount wrote:Orbit a titan at 500 in a frigate and tell me you don't feel dwarfed.
I have never seen a titan. Are they pretty?
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Alayna Le'line
26
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Posted - 2012.09.26 13:23:00 -
[39] - Quote
Jojo Booties wrote:Iris Bravemount wrote:Orbit a titan at 500 in a frigate and tell me you don't feel dwarfed. I have never seen a titan. Are they pretty?
There is an NPC titan in Luminaire (if you were serious...). |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
699
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Posted - 2012.09.26 13:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ohhhh, now *that* is a neat trick! Kewl! Thank you. Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
2
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Posted - 2012.09.26 13:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
Imagine how bad it was whens stations were 1/3 their current size... |
Jojo Booties
7
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Posted - 2012.09.26 13:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:Imagine how bad it was whens stations were 1/3 their current size...
And you use to get stuck in the cummy out tube. Those where the days. :)
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Val'Dore
Word Bearers of Chaos
2
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Posted - 2012.09.26 13:59:00 -
[43] - Quote
Jojo Booties wrote:Val'Dore wrote:Imagine how bad it was whens stations were 1/3 their current size... And you use to get stuck in the cummy out tube. Those where the days. :)
Remember when they added an undock launcher? Minmatar Station Pinball! I'd go to Caldari stations just to power slide my Tempest. |
Jojo Booties
7
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Posted - 2012.09.26 14:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
Val'Dore wrote:
Remember when they added an undock launcher? Minmatar Station Pinball! I'd go to Caldari stations just to power slide my Tempest.
I do remember something along those lines, but I never seen much difference, I still got stuck in the cummy out tube, but a bit further down. |
TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries EPIC Alliance
323
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Posted - 2012.09.26 15:47:00 -
[45] - Quote
Spaceman Jack wrote:Frigates should be able to get up and in the crevices of carrier and stations
Tell me again how you can fit a frigate inside the Ark Royal.
Also, why can't you get your frigate inside station crevices? I can... "We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming. |
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9 Quantum Cafe
103
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Posted - 2012.09.26 16:03:00 -
[46] - Quote
I have to agree. Too many other games get this right. and I have had people looking over my should and say the same thing "she said"
Not sure what the problem really is, but collision distance and camera angle/clipping certainly seems to be part of it. I agree shuttles and small ships should be able to get right up into other larger vessels.
Textures could help, but that is not what is holding back the illusion, neither is speed. Something with camera behavior, ship collision and maybe the even the actual scale of ships in relation to other celestials. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
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