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Sticky:[Winter] New destroyers

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)
Bouh Revetoile Barricade. 79	Posted - 2012.10.04 12:10:00 - [541] - Quote Forstbyte wrote: But with gallente you have 2 different kinds of dps bonus, with both need of low slots to boost that even more. You will have to choose between the two and leave the other less effective. Except when the two are already effective and that you can avoid the stacking penalties... You will fit turrets anyway in these highslots, and 5 bonused drones are already very powerful against frigates. Giving more firepower to 5 drones would be near OP. But the worse would that if the amarr or the gallente boat are too much the same, one will be completely useless ; and the "drone only" boat seem to be the amarr one. And about the role of this destroyer : it's a drone frigate killer, and this version of the ship will be very deadly to any frigate. Why would it need more something ?
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 380	Posted - 2012.10.04 13:00:00 - [542] - Quote i'm too lazy to math it myself; can anyone calculate the dps of a sentry ishtar after the damage mod buff? "I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF
Bouh Revetoile Barricade. 79	Posted - 2012.10.04 13:10:00 - [543] - Quote Daniel Plain wrote: i'm too lazy to math it myself; can anyone calculate the dps of a sentry ishtar after the damage mod buff? Old Ishtar + 4% ? More or less, around this, I think.
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 380	Posted - 2012.10.04 13:17:00 - [544] - Quote Bouh Revetoile wrote: Daniel Plain wrote: i'm too lazy to math it myself; can anyone calculate the dps of a sentry ishtar after the damage mod buff? Old Ishtar + 4% ? More or less, around this, I think. 1.19^3 = 1,685 1.23^3 = 1,86 that's a lot more than 4%, but it's also without stacking penalties "I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 209	Posted - 2012.10.04 13:25:00 - [545] - Quote Daniel Plain wrote: Bouh Revetoile wrote: Daniel Plain wrote: i'm too lazy to math it myself; can anyone calculate the dps of a sentry ishtar after the damage mod buff? Old Ishtar + 4% ? More or less, around this, I think. 1.19^3 = 1,685 1.23^3 = 1,86 that's a lot more than 4%, but it's also without stacking penalties The modules will provide an extra 10% about 19% x 3 = 46.36% w/ stacking penalties 23% x 3 = 56.12% w/ stacking penalties Ideas for Dorne Improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1658683#post1658683 Updated 9/21/12
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 380	Posted - 2012.10.04 13:30:00 - [546] - Quote Omnathious Deninard wrote: Daniel Plain wrote: Bouh Revetoile wrote: Daniel Plain wrote: i'm too lazy to math it myself; can anyone calculate the dps of a sentry ishtar after the damage mod buff? Old Ishtar + 4% ? More or less, around this, I think. 1.19^3 = 1,685 1.23^3 = 1,86 that's a lot more than 4%, but it's also without stacking penalties The modules will provide an extra 10% about 19% x 3 = 46.36% w/ stacking penalties 23% x 3 = 56.12% w/ stacking penalties tyvm "I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF
Sofia Wolf Ubuntu Inc. Varangon Tagma 63	Posted - 2012.10.04 13:53:00 - [547] - Quote I think all destroyers, old and new, should be made faster if they are to remain competitive with new faster cruisers. Now that assault cruisers are as fast as destroyers I donGÇÖt see any reason to use the later.
Renier Gaden Exanimo Inc Anger Management. 17	Posted - 2012.10.04 14:26:00 - [548] - Quote http://themittani.com/media/new-tempest-and-gallente-destroyer-renders For a ship that is designed to zip around the battlefield, the new Minmatar Destroyer looks an awfully lot like a barge. Assuming the above link is accurate. If it had some external engin mounts like on the Horder the ship would look a lot better and be more convincing in its role. The other ones look very cool.
Marcel Devereux Aideron Robotics 163	Posted - 2012.10.04 16:31:00 - [549] - Quote Can you update the OP with the new stats? Thanks!
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 209	Posted - 2012.10.04 18:34:00 - [550] - Quote A time for change in the old standard of drone ships regarding gallente vs amarr, the concept of gallente having better bandwidth than amarr is outdated in the respect ships have a hard limit of 5 drones now, this causes the increased bandwidth of gallente ships mostly unused due to larger drones not sitting well vs smaller targets. The increased bandwidth translates to higher damage potential, this can be achieved by the hull, both have the same bandwidth, amarr has bigger, drone bay 3,sets and the 10% damage and HP bonus, gallente will have a smaller drone bay, 2 sets, but gains better damage from the hull, 15% damage and HP. This separates the ships in the same manner as the bandwidth differences, while not forcing unused bandwidth on the gallente hull. Ideas for Dorne Improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1658683#post1658683 Updated 9/21/12
HELLBOUNDMAN The Proletarii 110	Posted - 2012.10.04 19:59:00 - [551] - Quote HELLBOUNDMAN wrote: I still say to get away from the damage specific bonuses they should take the caldari destroyer and make it a high alpha sniper style boat, and make the minmatar a close range brawler with a RoF bonus and slightly higher dps, plus it has the mwd bonus.. This makes them way different ships without making them specific damage bonuses. got another like on this..
MotorBoatMe WithYourFace PiiiGGGss iiiNNN SSSpppAAAcccEEE 1	Posted - 2012.10.04 20:40:00 - [552] - Quote Sofia Wolf wrote: I think all destroyers, old and new, should be made faster if they are to remain competitive with new faster cruisers. Now that assault cruisers are as fast as destroyers I donGÇÖt see any reason to use the later. +1 I did some quick calculations on the Caracal with rapid lights (tech 2), and before ship bonus the 5 RLML spewed 1.8 missiles per second, while the new destroyers 7 LML (tech 2) spewed 1.74. Put in bonuses and the RLML Caracal will have more tank, similar speed and damage that is not resist specific, while having a 25% greater rate of fire at level 5 skills. The destroyer has the explosion velocity bonus, and that will make it better against zippy targets, but otherwise it will get beat up by the Caracal. I will be flying a Caracal post patch over this. Rockets look to be where this boat could really outshine a Caracal. The HAM Caracal won't be able to hit frigs for as much applied damage as the new dessie will most likely. What about the new stabber? Again not much reason to pick these up with cruisers like that for a small bump up in skill and isk.
Soon Shin Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost 155	Posted - 2012.10.04 20:46:00 - [553] - Quote Sofia Wolf wrote: I think all destroyers, old and new, should be made faster if they are to remain competitive with new faster cruisers. Now that assault cruisers are as fast as destroyers I donGÇÖt see any reason to use the later. Agreed, destroyers need to be faster otherwise attack cruisers will outrun then.
Zarnak Wulf Imperial Outlaws 632	Posted - 2012.10.04 21:07:00 - [554] - Quote I'm of the mind that we should get these on a test server and kick the tires. The Gallente Destroyer looks good to me. I understand that others don't agree but the thing will put out 400-500 DPS without too much thought effort. It has utility and tank. potential. The medium drones? Use them or don't. A destroyer fights frigates AND other destroyers and mediums would be very effective against the latter. A 65m^3 drone bay is pretty unheard of for a small ship. It will go to waste alot as a destroyer's tank won't last 2+ flights of drones. The drone damage bonus is the first of it's kind for small ships too. I'd want to see it in action on a test server before declaring it insufficient. The Minmatar Destroyer will be more survivable then most frigates on the battlefield with it's peculiar bonus. 150m signature with no boosts or implants. The Caldari Destroyer can be either a mean rocket, MSE, web and scramble boat or a long range sniper with e-war potential. The Amarr boat I believe needs at least one, if not two highs moved to a low to create maximum tank potential. It's the one I have the most doubts about.
Blastil Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 16	Posted - 2012.10.04 22:33:00 - [555] - Quote my only comment is visual: does the Minmatar destroyer HAVE to look like a forklift had an inappropriate affair with a solar-panel factory?
HELLBOUNDMAN The Proletarii 111	Posted - 2012.10.04 23:29:00 - [556] - Quote Blastil wrote: my only comment is visual: does the Minmatar destroyer HAVE to look like a forklift had an inappropriate affair with a solar-panel factory? T he honest, the caldari boat looks like it should be a gallente boat. Too many curved edges. And yes, the minmatar boat looks like crap. The design might work for an indy ship or miner, but not a combat ship.
CheekyBabey Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2012.10.04 23:32:00 - [557] - Quote Blastil wrote: my only comment is visual: does the Minmatar destroyer HAVE to look like a forklift had an inappropriate affair with a solar-panel factory? Because ductape and rusty buckets say so :P
Tyberius Franklin Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation 321	Posted - 2012.10.04 23:41:00 - [558] - Quote HELLBOUNDMAN wrote: Blastil wrote: my only comment is visual: does the Minmatar destroyer HAVE to look like a forklift had an inappropriate affair with a solar-panel factory? T he honest, the caldari boat looks like it should be a gallente boat. Too many curved edges. And yes, the minmatar boat looks like crap. The design might work for an indy ship or miner, but not a combat ship. I'm not seeing the caldari one as gallente looking. Renders I've seen don't make it look very curved. It looks more like a naga with a center structure and some more typical caldari design flare. I'm not sure what could be considered gallente looking about it. Minmatar is fine... If you zoom out far enough
Crazy KSK Tsunami Cartel Gank for Profit 18	Posted - 2012.10.05 00:23:00 - [559] - Quote Zarnak Wulf wrote: I'm of the mind that we should get these on a test server and kick the tires. the sooner the better! and nobody is gonna care if one or two of them have no textures didn't matter with the tier 3 desies either I would not even mind flying a pod with those stats =P also the sooner we get to test stuff the better the outcome will be =) Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
Ark Anhammar EVE University Ivy League 20	Posted - 2012.10.05 01:06:00 - [560] - Quote CheekyBabey wrote: Domi - used to be a 15 drone death boat... I didn't have the luxury of playing when drones could be controlled more than 5 at a time, but seeing the "15 drone death machine" got me thinking: I wonder if awarding Gallente ships with the ability to control more than 5 drones would be worthwhile to give Gallente drone ships some much needed flavor and love? Hear me out, and these bonuses would only apply to the strict drone boats (Tristan, New Dessie, Vexor, Myrm, and Domi): Start with ability to control 5 at the frig level, and gradually increase this as you move up the ship ranks until you get to 10 at the BS level--Tristan has five. New Dessie has seven, Vexor would have six, Myrm eight and Domi would have 10. For balancing concerns, the bandwidth would remain the same, so the Domi could choose up to 10 mixed wing drones or just five heavies. The increased drone control could come in the form of (for the new destroyer, for example) "Role Bonus: +2 drone control," etc., with each ship getting the requisite bonus to add up to its allotted drone control. I'm pretty sure with server and gameplay upgrades (time dilation) in addition to the fact that these changes would only affect very specific ships, the increased load on the server wouldn't be game-breaking. Besides, we're just talking about a handful of Gallente (the drone race's) ships. Amarr drone boats (and all others, except maybe Gurista, since they're obviously true drone boats, too) would retain their max 5 drone control, because they're already compensated with a larger drone bay or are not "true" drone boats (BSs with 125m3 bandwidth for example). Why do this? Gallente drone boats need more to separate them than +10%/level to be compelling. Generic 10%/level bonuses are very bland and don't really differentiate the ships very much. Now, they're all very much like "one sausage, different lengths." Remove the weapon bonuses if balance is a concern, but I think it's fairly balanced with 10 weak (read:easy to kill) drones or 5 strong ones, and the interesting gameplay choices Dev's (and us as players) are fond of come in with "Do I want to fly a dedicated drone boat over a Gunboat today?" Or "Which drones do I take? Should I use 10 medium drones? Two sentries, five mediums and 3 lights?" Etc. I agree that drones need an overhaul altogether, and I think this is a very interesting and creative way to get Gallente drone ships back on people's "want-to-fly" lists in both PvP and PvE. I'd love to hear the community's (and Dev's) thoughts on this. Of course any feedback is appreciated!
Nike Andedare Confederation Navy Research Epsilon Fleet 2	Posted - 2012.10.05 01:10:00 - [561] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: Update! Gallente: Drone bandwidth increased to 35m3 Drone bay increased to 60m3 Turret number increased from 4 to 5 5% hybrid turret damage bonus per level changed for 10% hybrid turret tracking bonus per level Role bonus changed from 50% hybrid turret optimal range to 25% MWD speed to drones Why is the Amarr hull better at drone management than the Gallente one? That was a good point that should now be fixed. The drone bay will however stay larger on the Amarr hull as it is a trait currently encountered in Amarr versus Gallente drone ships. Isn't a 25% MWD drone bonus break drones trying to catch static targets? CCP Fozzie made me run some tests at gunpoint, 25% seems to be okay. What's the point of the Catalyst next to the new Gallente hull? We're planning some changes for it - keep an eye for them in the next days on this thread. Here's what I think... Please for the sake of not mixing drone groups, stick to 25 bandwidth. As stated before by several people this should be seen as a anti-frig drone boat. Lose whatever turret damage needed to make the drones the main source. Gallente have drone and hybrid as their damage types, and as nice as the set-up is, it sends mixed messages. You want all the new frigates and cruisers to have a primary source of damage with either a role bonus or ship bonus to complement them and then a secondary damage if you see fit; This hull does not feel like the next in line for someone who will skill up from a Tristan, to a Kharon (or Apiary, are my ideas for a name), to a Vexor, to a Myrmidon, to a Dominix. Sure it does do nice numbers as some have shown before me, but its a style of drone combat that this ship should put out with tackle, in my opinion. Not to mention putting medium drones in an anti-frigate destroyer seems not only silly, but I have never seen a purpose to mixing drone sizes, not to mention the idea just feels bad and weird and not something that you will practice with literally any other drone hull. Either allow for a full complement of a certain drone size or just one for Ewar purposes, thus for this ship five smalls is great. I don't know much about the other racial hulls but, I see a philosophy that you want (in general) to implement an idea to have hulls with have a primary weapon set that should be skilled up with it and a secondary to allow for use of the other same size hulls without much devotion to the second weapon type's skills and either a shield or armor tank. Looking from the other side and having all max skills, I still believe that drone damage should be the focus of this hull to follow the niche allowing for a line of hybrid and drone ships all the way up to battleship class. Besides let the Catalyst have the hybrid fun! (And just cause this is my opinion might as well tell you what I am thinking when it comes to racial primary/secondary weapons - Gallente have drone/hybrid, Caldari have missile/hybrid, Amarr have laser/drone, and Minmatar have projectile/ missle. Now obviously there are Amarr drone ships, and Gallente and Caldari both have some amazing hybrid ships, and Minmatar... well they do good projectile with no real missile ships but that's okay some drone bays too.) Sure it's more about a style of play or trying to follow some sort of EVE lore about weaponry/ideology, but at least I posted my points and ideas. And that's what I think.
Blastil Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance 16	Posted - 2012.10.05 02:55:00 - [562] - Quote CheekyBabey wrote: Blastil wrote: my only comment is visual: does the Minmatar destroyer HAVE to look like a forklift had an inappropriate affair with a solar-panel factory? Because ductape and rusty buckets say so :P Why not just render a rusty bucket with a hole in it ducktaped over? It might look better tbh...
Tragedy The Creepshow 37	Posted - 2012.10.05 03:03:00 - [563] - Quote Bah. You give us the fifth turret on the gallente ship and then take away the damage bonus. We were better off with two utility highs, tracking for small hybrids is already great. I feel like charle brown after that ***** yanks the football away when he tries to kick it.
PinkKnife L F C Ethereal Dawn 242	Posted - 2012.10.05 03:09:00 - [564] - Quote The problem with not having hybrids bonused is then you get 5 autocannon turret drone machines that blap everything.
Omnathious Deninard Extrinsic Operations 218	Posted - 2012.10.05 03:25:00 - [565] - Quote PinkKnife wrote: The problem with not having hybrids bonused is then you get 5 autocannon turret drone machines that blap everything. But is that bonus enough to make you say to your self "yes hybrid turrets will be better than autocannons due to the tracking bonus". As was stated small turrets track quite well, and this bonus seems to be a you MUST give it a hybrid bonus otherwise it wont be gallente. i still say drop hybrid bonuses and make it a dedicated drone ship, lower the number of turret hardpoints to 2 or 3 and give it like a drone optimun range bonus or a tracking bonus. Ideas for Dorne Improvement https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1658683#post1658683 Updated 9/21/12
Hidden Snake Inglorious-Basterds The Bloody Ronin Syndicate 149	Posted - 2012.10.05 05:47:00 - [566] - Quote More I read, more I see these new dessies should be t2. They totally pawn most of the AF or EAF either in role in gang or in 1v1. Even now is fight of some dessies against the AFs tricky fr AFs (it is more or less question of skills, fit and experience). Same pattern as in cruiser world happening here ..... CCP comes with new ship T1 class or boosts the old one T1> omg t2is useless > tears > some strange boost to t2. Are the skilled players no more interesting for CCP? IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free?>>>????-áPublic ch.: Basterds on vacation Hans resign from CSM!
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 850	Posted - 2012.10.05 09:06:00 - [567] - Quote CCP Ytterbium wrote: Update! [list] Amarr: Cap recharge bonus moved into the hull itself - thus capacitor recharge rate reduced from 370 to 275s Role bonus changed to 25% MWD speed to drones Still no incentive here to fit lasers in the turret slots. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem
Cerulean Ice Repercussus RAZOR Alliance 30	Posted - 2012.10.05 09:17:00 - [568] - Quote snow plow attached to brick... http://www.tentonhammer.com/image/view/236986/_original My eyes X_X Why can't the minmatar dessy look as awesome as the caldari and gallente dessies? :(
Hidden Snake Inglorious-Basterds The Bloody Ronin Syndicate 150	Posted - 2012.10.05 09:18:00 - [569] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: CCP Ytterbium wrote: Update! [list] Amarr: Cap recharge bonus moved into the hull itself - thus capacitor recharge rate reduced from 370 to 275s Role bonus changed to 25% MWD speed to drones Still no incentive here to fit lasers in the turret slots. still the minicurse/pilgrim will be tough nut .... in general i really like it.... with drone damage amplifiers and speed drone bonus it will eat frigs like nothing. IBS recruiting >>> http://ingloriousbs.wordpress.com -á>>> questionable ethics >>> tears >>> happy snakes>>>frog cocktails free?>>>????-áPublic ch.: Basterds on vacation Hans resign from CSM!
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 850	Posted - 2012.10.05 09:20:00 - [570] - Quote Hidden Snake wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: CCP Ytterbium wrote: Update! [list] Amarr: Cap recharge bonus moved into the hull itself - thus capacitor recharge rate reduced from 370 to 275s Role bonus changed to 25% MWD speed to drones Still no incentive here to fit lasers in the turret slots. still the minicurse/pilgrim will be tough nut .... in general i really like it.... with drone damage amplifiers and speed drone bonus it will eat frigs like nothing. If it can hit the frigs after the speed bonus, sure. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem

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