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Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
895
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Posted - 2012.09.29 16:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Tried to probe down a T3 Loki offgrid combat boosting with an L5 Cheetah with L5 Scan Strength, with Sisters Faction, With SIsters Probes, with 10% implant.
Couldn't get it past 94.03%.
The only thing left that I could do is put down 5B for a Sisters Scan Strength Implant Set to have a better chance at this, but it's pretty absurd that it has to come down to that to even have a CHANCE at probing down a T3, and even then still can't be sure that it is probable.
Please nerf the damn T3 ECCM issue again, I want to kill Offgrid Combat Boosting Lokis dammit!!!
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
761
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Posted - 2012.09.29 16:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:Tried to probe down a T3 Loki offgrid combat boosting with an L5 Cheetah with L5 Scan Strength, with Sisters Faction, With SIsters Probes, with 10% implant. Couldn't get it past 94.03%. The only thing left that I could do is put down 5B for a Sisters Scan Strength Implant Set to have a better chance at this, but it's pretty absurd that it has to come down to that to even have a CHANCE at probing down a T3, and even then still can't be sure that it is probable. Please nerf the damn T3 ECCM issue again, I want to kill Offgrid Combat Boosting Loki!!!
No, the unique and real solution is to definitively and decisively KILL OGB other than industrial boosts (mining related ONLY) brb |
Mars Theran
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
324
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Posted - 2012.09.29 17:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Maybe you were just having an off-day, or maybe he was moving. The later is almost unlikely, but it could be possible as from what I understand, others suggest it isn't hard at all to scan them down.
That being said, maybe he or she was using extra precautions. Not sure, but thoughts are: Boosters, Implants, or other things that might help to further reduce his chance of being scanned down. Maybe I was actually sleeping in front of my computer and dreamed I posted. Certainly, it's not there now. |
Tsubutai
The Tuskers
119
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Posted - 2012.09.29 18:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
If you have maxed probing skills and the 10% hardwiring, you only need a partial virtue set to get a 100% hit on an "unprobeable" ship - you only need to spend a few hundred mill. Also, a full virtue set is ~2b at current prices, not 5. |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
57
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Posted - 2012.09.29 19:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
They should make off-grid-boosters scannable with an unbonused ship without implants and perfect skills.
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Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
763
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Posted - 2012.09.30 12:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sheynan wrote:They should make off-grid-boosters scannable with an unbonused ship without implants and perfect skills.
I'm ok with extreme hard scanning down ships, what I'm totally against OGB because there's no reason for it and for the greater good of this game. A couple of things in this game put together just make it so anyone with some alts and a lot of isk can be almost invulnerable vs the small gang of 8 10 man with logistics, probably kill most of them if not all without logistics and still manage to gtfo.
Removing OGB from the game is a very good thing, democratise at some point pirate implants would be much better because the market would love it, players would love it and there are already so many thousands of players farming those it's just insane to see pirate implants at equivalent value in isk of several years of sub (this is beyond ridiculous). Generalise combat boosters and reduce side effects chance, make it cheaper to produce while still requiring specialised high level skills to produce those and so preserve dedicated characters benefits from said dedication. brb |
Recoil IV
New Eden Renegades Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
25
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Posted - 2012.09.30 12:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Sheynan wrote:They should make off-grid-boosters scannable with an unbonused ship without implants and perfect skills.
aswell as covert ops,cloacky recons and so on.they are all hard to scan.and no.i am against killing ogb. |
Ganthrithor
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
411
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Posted - 2012.09.30 23:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Bloodpetal wrote:Tried to probe down a T3 Loki offgrid combat boosting with an L5 Cheetah with L5 Scan Strength, with Sisters Faction, With SIsters Probes, with 10% implant. Couldn't get it past 94.03%. The only thing left that I could do is put down 5B for a Sisters Scan Strength Implant Set to have a better chance at this, but it's pretty absurd that it has to come down to that to even have a CHANCE at probing down a T3, and even then still can't be sure that it is probable. Please nerf the damn T3 ECCM issue again, I want to kill Offgrid Combat Boosting Loki!!! No, the unique and real solution is to definitively and decisively KILL OGB other than industrial boosts (mining related ONLY)
Because miners shouldn't have to risk anything ever right? If they kick offgrid boosting in the teeth, they'd damn well better make you put your bloody Rorqual in a belt as well. |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
683
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Posted - 2012.10.01 00:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Offgrid boosting needs to go.
Your probing skills need to improve. You are clearly bad.
Nothing to see in this thread. |
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
793
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Posted - 2012.10.01 02:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Bloodpetal wrote:Tried to probe down a T3 Loki offgrid combat boosting with an L5 Cheetah with L5 Scan Strength, with Sisters Faction, With SIsters Probes, with 10% implant. Couldn't get it past 94.03%. The only thing left that I could do is put down 5B for a Sisters Scan Strength Implant Set to have a better chance at this, but it's pretty absurd that it has to come down to that to even have a CHANCE at probing down a T3, and even then still can't be sure that it is probable. Please nerf the damn T3 ECCM issue again, I want to kill Offgrid Combat Boosting Loki!!! No, the unique and real solution is to definitively and decisively KILL OGB other than industrial boosts (mining related ONLY) Because miners shouldn't have to risk anything ever right? If they kick offgrid boosting in the teeth, they'd damn well better make you put your bloody Rorqual in a belt as well.
yes, lets make an already mostly useless ship even less used.
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Powers Sa
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
315
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Posted - 2012.10.01 03:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
You can still catch these with virtues and a perfectly skilled probers. Sorry, but you are wrong OP, I've probed down 2eccm + backup array lokis and tengus. |
Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
900
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Posted - 2012.10.01 03:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Powers Sa wrote:You can still catch these with virtues and a perfectly skilled probers. Sorry, but you are wrong OP, I've probed down 2eccm + backup array lokis and tengus.
Virtue Implants = 2B to hunt down an offgrid booster.
lol.
Ya, whatever.
Mimidae Risk Solutions Recruiting |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
1287
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Posted - 2012.10.01 06:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
I'm generally against just removing OGBs, but they should be scannable without the Virtues. This already would reduce their use in everyday PVP, and also provide gameplay to scouts. Giving a counter > simple nerfing.
Gallente - the choice of the interstellar gentleman |
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
94
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Posted - 2012.10.01 07:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:Tried to probe down a T3 Loki offgrid combat boosting with an L5 Cheetah with L5 Scan Strength, with Sisters Faction, With SIsters Probes, with 10% implant. Couldn't get it past 94.03%. The only thing left that I could do is put down 5B for a Sisters Scan Strength Implant Set to have a better chance at this, but it's pretty absurd that it has to come down to that to even have a CHANCE at probing down a T3, and even then still can't be sure that it is probable. Please nerf the damn T3 ECCM issue again, I want to kill Offgrid Combat Boosting Loki!!!
Did the booster pilot had HG Halos implanted? Loki you can make 100% unprobeable even now, with HG Halos, and ECCMs, not virtue set or anything can help (>1.08 unprobeable indicator).
I'll post a fit later. |
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
40
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Posted - 2012.10.01 11:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sheynan wrote:They should make off-grid-boosters scannable with an unbonused ship without implants and perfect skills.
Better yet they should appear on the overview as a beacon like cynos
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Tsubutai
The Tuskers
120
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Posted - 2012.10.01 13:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote:Powers Sa wrote:You can still catch these with virtues and a perfectly skilled probers. Sorry, but you are wrong OP, I've probed down 2eccm + backup array lokis and tengus. Virtue Implants = 2B to hunt down an offgrid booster. lol. Ya, whatever. You don't need the full set - the cost for a minimally sufficient clone is around 500m assuming you have proper skills. They also pay themselves off surprisingly quickly since linkships are often loaded with faction co-processors that cost ~100m apiece. 500m of implants to probe down a 500m+ ship doesn't seem unreasonable. |
Geoscape
Test Alliance Please Ignore
43
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Posted - 2012.10.01 13:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
A couple months ago I made a handy spreadsheet when i tested various probe formations and implant combinations.
If you have 8 probes and perfect skills you can get away with just the AR-810+Virtue Beta+Virtue Delta. However, it does need almost perfect probe placement, which does take some time to do. |
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
95
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Posted - 2012.10.01 15:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Geoscape wrote:A couple months ago I made a handy spreadsheet when i tested various probe formations and implant combinations. If you have 8 probes and perfect skills you can get away with just the AR-810+Virtue Beta+Virtue Delta. However, it does need almost perfect probe placement, which does take some time to do.
And if enemy booster have HG Halos? And fit I posted above? HG Halos will lessen the sig of that fitting above to 103m.
With HG halos its 166 sensor strength vs 103m sig ~ 1.611 ratio With HG jackals its 291 sensor strength vs 130m sig ~ 2.238 ratio, even more!
Will LG virtues and scanning implants help in these cases, versus my fit?
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
773
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Posted - 2012.10.01 16:02:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:No, the unique and real solution is to definitively and decisively KILL OGB other than industrial boosts (mining related ONLY) This. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
95
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Posted - 2012.10.01 16:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:No, the unique and real solution is to definitively and decisively KILL OGB other than industrial boosts (mining related ONLY) While I agree in principle, it's hard and impractical, especially for small gangs, to all always be on grid at the same time. It would make much more sense if we allowed OGB, but activating warfare links blooms signature radius by say 200%. One link active shouldn't be a terribly huge deal, but three or more links active will bloom it over what having a microwarpdrive active would do. In addition, disallow warfare link boosting from within POS shields.
You get +1 for that post, sir.
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Geoscape
Test Alliance Please Ignore
43
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Posted - 2012.10.01 19:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
Nestara Aldent wrote:Geoscape wrote:A couple months ago I made a handy spreadsheet when i tested various probe formations and implant combinations. If you have 8 probes and perfect skills you can get away with just the AR-810+Virtue Beta+Virtue Delta. However, it does need almost perfect probe placement, which does take some time to do. And if enemy booster have HG Halos? And fit I posted above? HG Halos will lessen the sig of that fitting above to 103m. With HG halos its 166 sensor strength vs 103m sig ~ 1.611 ratio With HG jackals its 291 sensor strength vs 130m sig ~ 2.238 ratio, even more! Will LG virtues and scanning implants help in these cases, versus my fit?
The sensor strength/sig ratio has an upper limit beyond which more eccm/halo sets give no further benefit as far as probing is concerned, iirc 1.08 is the maximum. http://community.eveonline.com/updates/patchnotes.asp?patchlogID=230
The 4xECCM merlin that I used as a target has a ratio of 1.99, well above the hardcoded cap.
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Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
765
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Posted - 2012.10.02 19:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ganthrithor wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Bloodpetal wrote:Tried to probe down a T3 Loki offgrid combat boosting with an L5 Cheetah with L5 Scan Strength, with Sisters Faction, With SIsters Probes, with 10% implant. Couldn't get it past 94.03%. The only thing left that I could do is put down 5B for a Sisters Scan Strength Implant Set to have a better chance at this, but it's pretty absurd that it has to come down to that to even have a CHANCE at probing down a T3, and even then still can't be sure that it is probable. Please nerf the damn T3 ECCM issue again, I want to kill Offgrid Combat Boosting Loki!!! No, the unique and real solution is to definitively and decisively KILL OGB other than industrial boosts (mining related ONLY) Because miners shouldn't have to risk anything ever right? If they kick offgrid boosting in the teeth, they'd damn well better make you put your bloody Rorqual in a belt as well.
You don't fail to understand because you already know it, the problem with T3 boosting is no really the T3 it self, nor the fact it has 1% more than regular command ship, the problem is OFF GRID !! Bring those T3 on grid and lets see how many will use them. You should know by now that if you want your T3 on the field you can forget your several links+uber implant toon and you're better bringing a tougher command ship but less links.
Now lets keep the old bad bitter cynical excuse: T3's are OP !
It's so much easier. brb |
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
99
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Posted - 2012.10.02 19:13:00 -
[23] - Quote
offgrid boosting is fine, just nerf it, so that it have enormous sig bloom and few liks are the same as MWD on. That way, we still have off grid boosting, but off grid booster would need to be microed, not just warped to safespot and forgotten. Also as 2nd, not everyone can or want to boost on grid, bosting on grid could be buffed (or off grid nerfed) relatively, so that theres benefit of boster being on-grid. that 2nd change will make field command ships very useful. Also, on top of better efficiency when on-grid, these commandships should have best bosts available, both in quality and in number of links possible.
Also, Eos is bad. Maybe have command ships - on top of all this - give 2x bonuses to links, like this:
Vulture = siege + info Eos = armro + info Claymore = Skirmish + siege Damnation = skirmish + armor
Or maybe not? This is only a proposal. But Eos and Proteus (in boosting fits) need to be loked into. Revamping info warfare is 2nd possible solution. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
765
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Posted - 2012.10.02 19:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nestara Aldent wrote:Off-grid boosting is fine, just nerf it, so that it have enormous sig bloom and few links on are the same as MWD on.
At this point nothing would be solved, it's just like strapping ducktape on a broken leg. looks better but does not solve the problem.
How much does this affects the POS kissing boosting alt? -nothing, absolutely nothing=worthless effort put in when they could be solving other insteresting problems with Eve.
How much will this affect fleet boosting -those bouncing in between safes with uber 100Mil implant and several millions of fit to fit more links than regular Command ship? -Again, nothing. You will not catch it faster than you can catch a Drake full LSE bouncing in between safes. Again worthless decision and again nothing is solved.
Bring boosting on gridd and sudenly a lot of things will change for better, much better game for every one. brb |
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
99
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Posted - 2012.10.02 20:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Nestara Aldent wrote:Off-grid boosting is fine, just nerf it, so that it have enormous sig bloom and few links on are the same as MWD on. At this point nothing would be solved, it's just like strapping ducktape on a broken leg. looks better but does not solve the problem. How much does this affects the POS kissing boosting alt? -nothing, absolutely nothing=worthless effort put in when they could be solving other insteresting problems with Eve. How much will this affect fleet boosting -those bouncing in between safes with uber 100Mil implant and several millions of fit to fit more links than regular Command ship? -Again, nothing. You will not catch it faster than you can catch a Drake full LSE bouncing in between safes. Again worthless decision and again nothing is solved. Bring boosting on gridd and sudenly a lot of things will change for better, much better game for every one.
Thats a problem with T3 boosters more than off-grid.
- Rorq must be able to boost off grid, sry. - Titans must be able to boost off-grid too
However T3 boosting can be nerfed a lot, in efficiency, and in no. of links they can use.
So why removing offgrid boosting? your boost will be better, if you put a booster on-grid (with my proposal), and you'll have the edge. POS boosting can be a problem, but make subcaps unable to boost from POS.
There, its pretty balanced. You want to risk booster on grid? You'll be rewarded with more effective boost. However many ppl use boosters for other uses, unrelated for PVP - that guy who have a booster alt to boost his tank for missions for example. |
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