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Adamo Neruki
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Posted - 2005.03.09 02:35:00 -
[1]
Stain Empire - The beginning of the end?
Recentlly, a large shockwave struck the Stain Empire, With it's Executive Corporatrion leaving the alliance, in order to (as they claim) "Take care of some personal buisnesses". "We have some internal affairs and some buisnesses we nedd to attend to, which we would not like the alliance to be involved in", commented a member of the corporation, which requested to stay annonymous. However, in the official announcement made by a MASS, it clearlly reads:
"As some of you know, Mass have officially removed all SE tags and gone to explore new frontiers. This has been known to many of us for some time now and we wish Trigger & co all the best in theyr quest for answers".
Furthermore, Species 5618, one of the main corporations within the Stain Navy, Announced it's departure at March 5th. In an official announcment, Cujo, CEO of the Species 5618 corp said:
"This move has nothing to do with Stain politics or the way its ran. We have been here for a long time even before Species was born and we are use to working thru hard times." "So what are we going to do? We will roam the universe looking for whatever opportunity's that may come our way."
Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:27 am. The "Frog Morton security" leaves the Stain Empire. In an official announcment, OvErLoAd, of Frog Morton stated:
"There are many reasons for us leaving and I know it isnt the best of times with SE having so many enemies." "We will not be moving far and would like to be considered as friends of Stain and all the corporations in the Empire."
Right after this declaration was released, "The Collective", second biggest corporation in the Stain Empire (right after MASS) Has disappeared from the Stain Empire logs. There has been no official Statement on this matter, however, in a descret interview with one of the members, the following was mentioned:
"It was good while it lasted, we wish Stain the very best".
This source, has also request to stay annonymous.
What will be of the Stain Empire? Will it's end be the same as of their once-great rivals, the Curse alliance? only time will tell. Untill then, all we can do, is wait and hope for the best.
Report by Adamo Neruki.
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Leno
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Posted - 2005.03.09 02:44:00 -
[2]
I doubt it, but gotta admit it would be kind of ironic... ---------------
RIP - Smoske, My Friend
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KrakizBad
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Posted - 2005.03.09 03:45:00 -
[3]
Watch for many more staple corps to be leaving soon. All in Stain heed the warnings, the end is nigh. I shall return to claim my rightful place as emperor of Esoteria.
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BlackHawk177
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Posted - 2005.03.09 04:08:00 -
[4]
Hey you guys know; We're always willing to take over command of SE and provide some real leadership. Of course you could continue to fight, and lose :) I like that option better, more fun for me.
(\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
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Foyle
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Posted - 2005.03.09 04:24:00 -
[5]
Best of luck, wherever your next endeavor brings you.
Eternally yours, MuthaTrucka
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Lallante
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Posted - 2005.03.09 04:26:00 -
[6]
Watch XETIC numbers swell as the Alliance Carebears join them (after all, they NEED their protected mining and NPCing)
Meanwhile, the PvP corps will go it alone and fine that there is much more to be said for the unalligned playstyle.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
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KrakizBad
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Posted - 2005.03.09 04:29:00 -
[7]
There is and was a lot of fat in stain. Xetic would be wise to take on corps with great scrutiny.
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slip66
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Posted - 2005.03.09 04:33:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Lallante Watch XETIC numbers swell as the Alliance Carebears join them (after all, they NEED their protected mining and NPCing)
Meanwhile, the PvP corps will go it alone and fine that there is much more to be said for the unalligned playstyle.
yeah I think the old guard pvp corps/fighters are getting tired of the leeches not pulling thier weight.
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Lallante
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Posted - 2005.03.09 04:37:00 -
[9]
and Xetic has plenty of blood left for the sucking :P
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
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Specops
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Posted - 2005.03.09 05:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Lallante and Xetic has plenty of blood left for the sucking :P
We have so much blood now you shall drown in it :)
~Specops~ |
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Ukiah
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Posted - 2005.03.09 06:29:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Lallante
Meanwhile, the PvP corps will go it alone and fine that there is much more to be said for the unalligned playstyle.
OMG! I never thought I'd say this, but 'Lallante for teh w1n!'
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Jakk Graiseach
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Posted - 2005.03.09 09:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Lallante Watch XETIC numbers swell as the Alliance Carebears join them (after all, they NEED their protected mining and NPCing)
Meanwhile, the PvP corps will go it alone and fine that there is much more to be said for the unalligned playstyle.
Much as I don't agree with labelling people as 'carebears', I believe this point has been well covered by the Star Fraction:
Originally by: Jade Constantine
We believe that policing other peopleÆs safety as a matter of course is akin to mutually regressive servitude; since the protector is obligated to defend the indefensible (since ignorance and vulnerability invites oppression) and the protected is maintained in a status of na´ve victim hood that establishes an entirely unacceptable caste divide between fellow residents of the 0.0 frontier.
Perhaps some of the other alliances are starting to realise this? -- ** All accounts cancelled - have fun guys ** |
Shai Faetal
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Posted - 2005.03.09 10:34:00 -
[13]
they are leaving the IG alliance cuz smacktard 2man pvp corps declare war on them and hide
- (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
looMin uS
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Posted - 2005.03.09 10:55:00 -
[14]
Frog get in touch with Species, if you havnt already done so....
2005.03.13 13:11:52]Niazi>but u had guts to come back in[ 2005.03.13 13:12:02]Niazi>most ppl are sissies and dont turn up for a fight |
Trey Azagthoth
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Posted - 2005.03.09 10:57:00 -
[15]
w00t! Its like Christmas all over again! Vin Diesel claims he has never hailed a taxi. He just runs up to them at stop lights, opens the door, shoves the current passenger over, and tells the cab driver what his new destination is. |
Shin Ra
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Posted - 2005.03.09 11:06:00 -
[16]
Originally by: BlackHawk177 Hey you guys know; We're always willing to take over command of SE and provide some real leadership. Of course you could continue to fight, and lose :) I like that option better, more fun for me.
Can you imagine 30 ravnes with dampners and 30 troll setup geddons? ----------------------------------------- Heinky> Dont mix eve with rl it can be bad for your health |
FatBalls
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Posted - 2005.03.09 13:51:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Foyle Best of luck, wherever your next endeavor brings you.
I think this is an application and belive me accepting her into the alliance would certainly be the demise of SE.
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Saladin
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Posted - 2005.03.09 14:45:00 -
[18]
The SE corporation known for its leather protection products, Storm Guard Elite, may also be leaving SE soon if they haven't already. |
Sorja
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Posted - 2005.03.09 16:42:00 -
[19]
MASS and 5618 were supposedly hired as mercenaries to take Fade over. For big cash.
Maybe will they return to the south when the job is done (or not done, only time will tell if their first defeats are only 'incidents').
Anyways, PvPers need action, and it's always easier to roam around Eve when you have nothing to defend and an overview filled with targets.
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Lallante
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Posted - 2005.03.09 16:57:00 -
[20]
Noone rejoins an alliance once they have left. Its so much more fun outside.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
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Killer Gandry
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Posted - 2005.03.09 17:03:00 -
[21]
I seriously doubt that SE will follow into Curses faith.
SE is way to diverse and adaptable for that to happen, They might suffor a minor setback for a while but they will bounce back with vigilance..
Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying |
Hulk Hogan
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Posted - 2005.03.09 17:12:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lallante Meanwhile, the PvP corps will go it alone and fine that there is much more to be said for the unalligned playstyle.
Shinra most certainly are not going it alone.
At the end of day NO ONE wil ever be able to go it alone!! As there is just too many people to take on On 1's own. Even the best have friends and Allies.
Good luck to SE and Ex-SE where ever you wish to go!
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Lallante
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Posted - 2005.03.09 17:21:00 -
[23]
Yes we are. We took Period Basis against FA fleets 4 times our number on our own. We beat FA/PBL/FIX mixed fleets numbering over 70 on 4 occassions. If thats not going it alone, nothing is.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority - ShinRa
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Corvus Dove
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Posted - 2005.03.09 17:29:00 -
[24]
The major problem with the alliances, and what I think was one of the primary causes of the fall of CA, is the lack of carebear base. The fact of the matter is, only a diverse infrastructure can support a strong combat fleet. When all you have is combat pilots, you're defending space for no reason other than to say it's yours.
To stay in strong competition and survive in 0.0, you need the researchers, manufacturers, and miners from Empire. A wise campaign would be to actually send your moderate-sec pilots into empire to recruit mining corps and give them access to 0.0 ore extremely early in their EVE life. Then you can get manufacturers to come in and purchase the mins from those corps at discounted prices that still blow the hell out of normal noob mining, and your alliance will then have decent prices for ships without having to travel to empire (and an entire market that will support 0.0, which is currently missing). Does this mean the expensive process of POS? Possibly but the cost should make itself up rather quickly by the benefit.
Essentially, for an Alliance to function it needs to make its portion of 0.0 as useful as your average 0.4 to everyone. Give people a reason to move. Becoming independant from empire = permanence. "You Griefer!!!" = "You Doodyhead!!!" |
Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.03.09 17:48:00 -
[25]
A good carebear base would be nice if they didn't hang out only in the area with NPC stations, and didn't keep all their minerals for themselves, and didn't sell Apocs to alliance mates for 129 mil.
Just my opinion.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
slip66
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Posted - 2005.03.09 18:19:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Alowishus A good carebear base would be nice if they didn't hang out only in the area with NPC stations, and didn't keep all their minerals for themselves, and didn't sell Apocs to alliance mates for 129 mil.
Just my opinion.
exactly. You dont need a "carebear" base. All that gets you is people you have to defend. Which keeps you from attacking. A corp can be self sufficent, having those carebears as alts duhh. Any noob can mine and most people have decent mining skills. You jsut cant have a pvp/carebear division.
It just furthers the division between carebears and pvpers. EVERYONE has to fight. Not go hide in some far out system and hide. You dont need to mine 24/7 to make allot of cash. A corp with all its members mining for a few days will go a very long way. Then they can go as one and fight in thier new ships. Some corps in CA had this down pat and it worked. If you looked at CA some of the most succesful corps followed this way.
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KrakizBad
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Posted - 2005.03.09 18:28:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Alowishus A good carebear base would be nice if they didn't hang out only in the area with NPC stations, and didn't keep all their minerals for themselves, and didn't sell Apocs to alliance mates for 129 mil.
Just my opinion.
That's odd. The only thing i grew to enjoy about stain was the fact i could buy apocs for 105 mils and cap recharger 2's for 8 mils. Sure cap rechargers are still marked up a lot, but so???? You still saving 4-5 mils apiece.
The problem with stain is that corps send all their n00bsto places like esoteria. Then there's a few like myself and some others that i'll keep nameless, who live(d) in esoteria all the time. We'd get waves of n00bs. Then low and behold, there's 30 people mining in bz, of course shoe/rome is gonna take notice.
Then, enemies come, all the n00bs dock cause they can't afford to loose they BS that they got a month after they started playing. And you like, ok, use a frig, casue everyone knows you need 10 scramblers to take down 1 rome/shoe. No response, then log.
Then you ask for support on alliance and a bunch of people that have never seen crokite or the value tell you to stop being a carebear and defend yourself. And you're like, i'm trying, but when you have 5-10 mils sp devoted entirely to industry, your fighting skills are going to be crap. You never see the miners yelling at the fighers saying, why don't you just mine crok.
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.03.09 18:36:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Alowishus on 09/03/2005 18:38:06 @ Slippy:
That's how a normal corp operates. That's how we operate. Most of us actually have the capitol/skills/resources to replace our own ships pretty quickly. The corp does help if you need it though. It's the ****stain corps who think, "Ima join an alliance to get 0.0 access so I can get rich," that screw everything up. These are also the people that complain "I got blowed up by pierates while mining, why isn't anyone doing anything about it, I hate this stupid alliance and I quit Eve!"
I'm probably not the first to admit that Stain is not without corps like this. I blame rapid expansion. I also blame good faith. When it seems like a corp will be replacing your ships for you it doesn't sound like a bad idea. But when it's easier and cheaper to get ships without them then it's a problem.
Stain needs a good cleansing. There are 5-10 good corps in Stain. Do the math on how many need to be sent packing.
I'm probably going to get in trouble for expressing these things publicly but I don't care.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
Monkiboy
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Posted - 2005.03.09 18:39:00 -
[29]
For post-exodus alliances to survive- I believe the following is true:
1) Need internal production corps who supply components and ships to other Alliance corps at a competitive (eg. cheaper than empire) rates, feel valued, are valued, and their play style is respected and encouraged.
2) Needs to have structure that caters for diverse play styles, without showing preference for any of them. ie. pvp'ers are no more important than production corps, carebears have no more say in the alliance than pvp'ers. An imbalance on either side, leads to tyranny on the side of PvP'ers, and combat ineffectiveness and inactivity on the side of carebears.
3) Needs to pick and choose where to deploy POS's and have the mineral resources and supply lines to be able to keep them fueled- and have people willing to do this work.
4) Research. It needs to be done. The hard part, is getting researchers to share what they produce with the alliance, and not just use it for their own financial well being. You got an eagle BPO? Cool. You can sell it for a couple of billion, or donate it to your alliance. Gee. Guess which one generally wins? (no mining for 4-5 months? bonus).
5) A council system that doesnt suck. CA's one sucked. 6 hours of people *****ing and moaning. I hardly ever went and Im glad, because when I did it was like permanently losing 6 hours of my life and not having a T-shirt to show for it. The fact is, such meetings could have been done in 30 mins, if they had been organized in such a way to allow it to happen.
6) Successful Ego-Suppression Why are Shinra and VOTF at war? Because Aneu and Lallante hate each other. Is that a good reason for Shinra and VOTF to be at war? No. It's dumb and wasteful. Same goes for Alliances. Keeping people in line is hard in this game. They either want to be in line, or do their own thing. How do you keep them in line without ****ing them off so that they leave? BoB's approach is effective, they're all forum *****s ;) solves the problem to some extent, and also just because one corp gets into a war doesnt mean everyone else is dragged into it.
7) Slackers. There are some who dont pull their weight. Survival of an Alliance depends on their ability to correctly identify slackers and remove them, or at least task them in such a way that they must pull their weight. You know the kind I mean, the ones that wipe out belts so nobody can use them, but are never there for fleet battle or defence. Slackers being allowed to remain is horrible for Alliance morale. "They're getting rich off us".
8) Friendly competitive spirit, vs elitism. As soon as one corp becomes the "Elite" corp of the alliance, trouble is coming. As long as everyone is sharing the burden and working together things are great, as soon as your alliance depends on mega-corps, the sooner your alliance is without them and has to deal with the fact that they're relying on corps that were always in the mega-corps shadow. That isnt always a bad thing, the problem though is- the mega-corp is usually made up of a bunch of little corps that merged over time. So you're losing someone who knows how you work, and knows how to hurt you if things get unpleasant.
9) Balls. The willingness to make new enemies, even when unprovoked. The pair to actually act on it, even when it may make your mutual friends squeamish. NAP hell costs you more members over time than war overtime. War is invigorating to some. Peace isnt. For survival, every good alliance needs a war now and then to keep things stimulated.
Alot of stuff there- Ill stop there ;)
MB
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Alowishus
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Posted - 2005.03.09 18:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Monkiboy 1) Need internal production corps who supply components and ships to other Alliance corps at a competitive (eg. cheaper than empire) rates, feel valued, are valued, and their play style is respected and encouraged.
2) Needs to have structure that caters for diverse play styles, without showing preference for any of them. ie. pvp'ers are no more important than production corps, carebears have no more say in the alliance than pvp'ers. An imbalance on either side, leads to tyranny on the side of PvP'ers, and combat ineffectiveness and inactivity on the side of carebears.
Ok, the thing about industrial only corps is that they can be really good or really bad. If that's where their skill is then they need to be using that skill to DO SOMETHING FOR THE ALLIANCE. A 105 mil isk Apoc is NOT good enough, neither is an 8-million isk Cap Recharger 2. When you can mine crock eight hours a day, every day, without interuption it's not enough that you build ships for the alliance. You must be taking orders and supplying HALF of your minerals to FREE ships for people who can prove to have lost their ships in REAL battles so that you can mine for eight hours a day everyday without interuption.
If you have a T2 BPO then you need to be supplying COPIES to people in the alliance at fair prices. If you're not doing this then I don't give a crap what discount under inflated empire prices you are giving, you still SUCK.
The thing is that PvP corps will GIVE eachother what they need if it's available. Industrial corps maybe grudgingly give a discount. Thanks a lot, way to go.
Raven 4TW! Rank(1) SP: 243745/256000 |
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