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aarton zebhawk
Bluewater Industries Gold Star Alliance
0
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Posted - 2012.10.06 22:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
In using EFT to forecast the resist values on a Tengu I am fitting, the EM and explosive resist values are much higher in EFT when I add an EM Ward Field II and an Explosive Deflection Field II to the mid slots. The numbers are off by between 17 and 21 percentage points (EM: 58% vs 75% and Explosive 56% vs 77%). The base numbers match, and the skills for my character are fully updated in EFT. Any ideas on why the wide discrepancies? |
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
40
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Posted - 2012.10.06 22:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ingame fitting tool just sucks, it uses offline amounts for say EM Ward Fields / Explosive Deflection Fields, Invuln Fields and so on rather then the online amounts. (They add resistances even when offlined)
Don't trust the values there apart from the DPS ones which seem pretty accurate.
*Hint to CCP, FIX IT!* |
steave435
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
80
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Posted - 2012.10.06 22:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
Gabrielle Lamb wrote:Ingame fitting tool just sucks, it uses offline amounts for say EM Ward Fields / Explosive Deflection Fields, Invuln Fields and so on rather then the online amounts. (They add resistances even when offlined)
Don't trust the values there apart from the DPS ones which seem pretty accurate.
*Hint to CCP, FIX IT!* The in game fitting window include the resists they provide in their current state. Turn them on and the fitting window will consider them to be active. With mods like the RAH that change resists over time, that's the way it has to be, especially since hardeners can be neuted off and you still want to be able to tell what your resists are if needed. |
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
40
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Posted - 2012.10.06 22:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
steave435 wrote:Gabrielle Lamb wrote:Ingame fitting tool just sucks, it uses offline amounts for say EM Ward Fields / Explosive Deflection Fields, Invuln Fields and so on rather then the online amounts. (They add resistances even when offlined)
Don't trust the values there apart from the DPS ones which seem pretty accurate.
*Hint to CCP, FIX IT!* The in game fitting window include the resists they provide in their current state. Turn them on and the fitting window will consider them to be active. With mods like the RAH that change resists over time, that's the way it has to be, especially since hardeners can be neuted off and you still want to be able to tell what your resists are if needed.
Bullshit, the fitting window sucks. It shows completely bogus stats when in station and there's no way to set a module to be either activated or deactivated. It shows EHP without Invulns active and repair amounts doesnt take resistances in to account.
That is not an okey situation, which means the fitting window is a poorly functioning tool. That is not an okey situation, so stop pretending it is. |
Dark Ways
Caldari Hauler Engineer Industrialist Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.10.06 22:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Undock and open your fitting window and see what you have with the modules on. |
Fkn Arson
Aliastra Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.10.07 03:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dark Ways wrote:Undock and open your fitting window and see what you have with the modules on.
I'm surprised this had to be said O_O. |
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2012.10.07 08:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fkn Arson wrote:Dark Ways wrote:Undock and open your fitting window and see what you have with the modules on. I'm surprised this had to be said O_O.
I'm surprised you guys think that's a working game mechanic. Undocking to check values is a workaround, you have to do something silly and inconvenient in order to produce a result you should be able to produce from inside of the station.
You don't really have to look further then EFT to see a tool done right, you can enable, disable, offline and overload modules at will all from inside the toolset window to instantly see the different values. Adjust for different resistance profiles and even see how your future skill trainings will affect your current fit.
That's a working tool, the ingame fitting tool is not. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
211
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Posted - 2012.10.07 09:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
It's not a work around. The fitting window shows current status.
Personally, I'm fine with. You would rather it shows stats with a sheild harmonized, and interdiction mindlinks running? |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4821
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Posted - 2012.10.07 09:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
Gabrielle Lamb wrote:steave435 wrote:Gabrielle Lamb wrote:Ingame fitting tool just sucks, it uses offline amounts for say EM Ward Fields / Explosive Deflection Fields, Invuln Fields and so on rather then the online amounts. (They add resistances even when offlined)
Don't trust the values there apart from the DPS ones which seem pretty accurate.
*Hint to CCP, FIX IT!* The in game fitting window include the resists they provide in their current state. Turn them on and the fitting window will consider them to be active. With mods like the RAH that change resists over time, that's the way it has to be, especially since hardeners can be neuted off and you still want to be able to tell what your resists are if needed. Bullshit, the fitting window sucks. It shows completely bogus stats when in station and there's no way to set a module to be either activated or deactivated. It shows EHP without Invulns active and repair amounts doesnt take resistances in to account. That is not an okey situation, which means the fitting window is a poorly functioning tool. That is not an okey situation, so stop pretending it is.
Repair amounts don't change with resistances. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
212
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Posted - 2012.10.07 11:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Gabrielle Lamb wrote:steave435 wrote:Gabrielle Lamb wrote:Ingame fitting tool just sucks, it uses offline amounts for say EM Ward Fields / Explosive Deflection Fields, Invuln Fields and so on rather then the online amounts. (They add resistances even when offlined)
Don't trust the values there apart from the DPS ones which seem pretty accurate.
*Hint to CCP, FIX IT!* The in game fitting window include the resists they provide in their current state. Turn them on and the fitting window will consider them to be active. With mods like the RAH that change resists over time, that's the way it has to be, especially since hardeners can be neuted off and you still want to be able to tell what your resists are if needed. Bullshit, the fitting window sucks. It shows completely bogus stats when in station and there's no way to set a module to be either activated or deactivated. It shows EHP without Invulns active and repair amounts doesnt take resistances in to account. That is not an okey situation, which means the fitting window is a poorly functioning tool. That is not an okey situation, so stop pretending it is. Repair amounts don't change with resistances.
Yup.
And the game doesn't guess. You think you have a 600dps angle tank, let me introduce you to an angle cherubin. It hit for about 70km and does 60% thermal damage. It completely ruins a traditional Angle tank. |
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Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
42
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Posted - 2012.10.07 11:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:
Repair amounts don't change with resistances.
No, but the fitting window fails to show you the effective hit points repaired per cycle/second. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
18
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Posted - 2012.10.07 11:18:00 -
[12] - Quote
ITT: people who think that 3rd party tools are the only way to go.
Onictus wrote:It's not a work around. The fitting window shows current status. Which is only fine outside of the station, when you are checking your current status, not current fit's potential.
Onictus wrote:Personally, I'm fine with. You would rather it shows stats with a sheild harmonized, and interdiction mindlinks running? As an option, yes.
Malcanis wrote:Repair amounts don't change with resistances. "Defence" value does.
Onictus wrote:And the game doesn't guess. You think you have a 600dps angle tank, let me introduce you to an angle cherubin. It hit for about 70km and does 60% thermal damage. It completely ruins a traditional Angle tank. EFT doesn't guess either. But at the same time it doesn't stop you from telling it what is damage profile you are going to check your fit against, for example. |
nahjustwarpin
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
44
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Posted - 2012.10.07 19:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
Not sure why anyone would like to have a simulator in FITTING window.
You can't see fleet bonuses in fitting window when docked, and even if you could there are so many parameters (shiptype, skills for booster) that ccp would have to spend months to implement it. |
Logan230
NACHO El Dorado NACHO Alliance
1
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Posted - 2012.10.07 20:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
The ingame window is not a SIMULATOR like EFT is. It is a FITTING window. It tells you how much room you have left, then what the stats are for things in their CURRENT STATE. If you want a SIMULATOR, use EFT. Aspie much? |
Kaanchana
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
173
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Posted - 2012.10.07 22:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
Gabrielle Lamb wrote:Malcanis wrote:
Repair amounts don't change with resistances.
No, but the fitting window fails to show you the effective hit points repaired per cycle/second.
Crying for something that you could solve with a little work is stupid imo. In-game fitting is just that, a fitting tool. If you want all the other 100 different things EFT could do, then use one. Stop whining.
Do you know what EHP is? Or how EFT calculates it? EFT assumes you get hit with an ammo with equal damage pattern and tells you your EHP. You change ammo type and you get a different value. Its a theoretical value not your actual one. Hence there is no point having that in your in-game tool without giving the option to select damage types etc etc which will make it another useless direction to focus on when you have a perfectly good out of the game tools like pyfa or eft. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2012.10.08 08:19:00 -
[16] - Quote
nahjustwarpin wrote:Not sure why anyone would like to have a simulator in FITTING window. We only bring fitting window into the discussion because we don't have fitting planner that isn't 3rd party tool. I use it ofc, but that doesn't mean that it's the best I can imagine.
Kaanchana wrote:Do you know what EHP is? Or how EFT calculates it? EFT assumes you get hit with an ammo with equal damage pattern and tells you your EHP. Learn how to customize your EFT, pelase. You can set and store any damage profile there, I recommend to incude average rat damage pattern there and damage profile for most popular ammo types.
nahjustwarpin wrote:...that ccp would have to spend months to implement it. Essentially, that is the only excuse we have for having to deal with 3rd party programs. I hope DUST and WoD will be fun. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4848
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Posted - 2012.10.08 09:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
You're literally QQing because you are mad the devs won't spend months replicating the entire functionality of a free 3rd party application instead of attending to more important stuff?
Well bad news, Dust has a fiting window too. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
9795
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Posted - 2012.10.08 09:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:ITT: people who think that 3rd party tools are the only way to go. It's not the only way, just the best way. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
783
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Posted - 2012.10.09 14:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Repair amounts don't change with resistances.
And they shouldn't, simply because it's a physical repair amount. doesn't matter if said ship has 99.9% resistances or 0, when you repair 800armor it's always 800 armor.
Plus, as you just rightly said, this tool is really awesome. Could it be better? -maybe, but I's already enough and think adding complications with extra data of effective resists with active modules and effective resist vs dmg type would not only be bad hamsters wise but it's far better to be part of 3rd party out of game application offering more options for theorycrafting. brb |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
466
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Posted - 2012.10.10 00:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
The reason that Gabrielle Lamb wants the fitting window to show the active values is she wants to stroke e-peen while docked in 4-4 smacktalking, versus ever undocking and putting anything to the test. Taking submissions for "Trinkets friendly Advice Column" via evemail or private convo in-game. Anonymity sorta guaranteed.
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
24
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Posted - 2012.10.10 12:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Gabrielle Lamb wrote:Fkn Arson wrote:Dark Ways wrote:Undock and open your fitting window and see what you have with the modules on. I'm surprised this had to be said O_O. I'm surprised you guys think that's a working game mechanic. Undocking to check values is a workaround, you have to do something silly and inconvenient in order to produce a result you should be able to produce from inside of the station. You don't really have to look further then EFT to see a tool done right, you can enable, disable, offline and overload modules at will all from inside the toolset window to instantly see the different values. Adjust for different resistance profiles and even see how your future skill trainings will affect your current fit. That's a working tool, the ingame fitting tool is not.
lots of factors apply to the ship that can't be factored in while docked. Active hards are one. Resist values from say a shield boosting CS/T3 booster another. yet another value you don't know what will hit until you know....actually in space to be fleet boosted. I let CCP slide here tbh. I need to undock to see how good the booster is for my fleet, turning on a mod not omfg slit my wrist emo rage time.
EFT and other tools can program to always on. This is why 3rd party exists. Independent devs who take their free time to go I want this. Everygame has this. In the WOW world and such this would be your UI coders. Independent gamer/code monkey drinks too much coffee (or beer) and goes this would be really cool. CCP dev has a project manager showing him a project timeline chart showing him he better move his ass as a feature planned months ago supposed to be done real soon.
Also worth noting to follow eft and others blindly is the path to problems. The dev(s) over the years I will give credit to, they do a great job. But eft at least 3 times for me has wrong item data. bad data dump, they imported wrong or a bit flipped by chance...whatever the cauae eft was truly lying to me lol.
The tl;dr, ccp's fitting tool undocked all mods tunred on, any booster in system will never lie to you. Eft and others....jsut because they say it is so, does not mean it will be so. |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
20
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Posted - 2012.10.10 13:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tippia wrote:It's not the only way, just the best way we have access to atm. FTFY for that case if we are talking of making up fits from scratch and not fitting something we already have in hangar, with all mods and such. Post above kinda shows one of the reasons, but there's also usability (which is actrually primary reason). |
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