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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2011.10.07 03:44:00 -
[211] - Quote
I saw the EN24 video of the test. In all fairness it shows the camera effect ALOT better than the dev video. So things look alot less "lagged"
Not the biggest deal in my opinion. At 10 percent time will be so slow anyway that anything you would NEED to do with the camera wont be affected in relation to normal time. |
KanashiiKami
Marvel Comics Galactic Labs THREE WOLF
0
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Posted - 2011.10.07 08:24:00 -
[212] - Quote
i do not like the TIDI feature. if there is a TIDI feature it should not be full blown. it should only affect or slow down by 25% at max.
CCP SHOULD -->
1) reduce polygon count / improve GPU streamlining to improve video lag performance. and they way CCP have changed the way space looks, it doesnt look like space ... it too bright and you have too many useless cloud/debris artifacts in space that takes up GPU power. come on, even if we are not space geeks ... we see pictures of space before from star trek ... IT IS SPACE, dun try to picaso it with fluffy clouds. 2) improve network comms efficiency. you are prolly trying to send too much useless information in too many packets. 3) the ship graphics overlays are 1 of the many things that bottlenecks up the whole thing. obviously there is something very wrong with how the layers are being forced on the nurbs. simplicity would make things run faster. why would you want to spurt a red blob then ask the GPU to go over it 10000 times to make it look like a cloud ? its a disaster for the GPU. a lo res map with a few pass would do the effect even better. 4) TIDI should only be in force when too many players have too much latency differences when server is trying to sync actions across multiple platforms. and CCP should instead enforce a feature that allows delayed updates for said players with poor connections and therefore discourage poorly connected players from joining bigger fleets fights. a fleet fight is a fleet fight, if your PC/conn lags badly, u are ultimately killing ur own fun, there is the weakest link. then again, the eve game client has its own numerous problems in dealing with large clusters and GFX.
so tell me again, is CCP trying to use TIDI (a mistake) to cover up more mistakes ???
come on guys.... do it right already .... or is the ceo under paying you? ( i can understand that) you will not need TIDI, if you start to look deep into the foundation GFX issues and networks issues. WHY make GFX more complex by 100% when you do not see a 100% return on GFX visual improvement? you have to pay your engineers right to do it right CCP ... just do it already man ... |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2011.10.07 10:49:00 -
[213] - Quote
Useless info? Have you honestly NOT been keeping up with the MANY dev blogs on improving network and packet efficency or are you just here to troll?
GPU stuff is completely different. If your GPU is melting turn YOUR settings down. Tidi is also going to massively reduce the issues caused by low GPU FPS.
Tidi evens the playing field. And helps reduce lagploitz in large battles. In fact it adds a completely new gameplay element at high Tidi as commanders will now have time to play 3D EVE chess with the other. Manuvering Squads. Issuing multi attack orders. And prepositioning craft in anticipation will Become FARRRRRRRRRR more important at high Tidi.
This changes the game. I support it.
Tho CCP I really suggest you redo that video. Or ask to borrow some of the player footage of Sisi tidi in action to better show this. In the videos it shows the camera delay effect to be FARRRR less prevelant and what looks to be forced lag in your video isn't there.
It looks downright beautiful in those videos.
I am also getting tired of reading the BS that people are saying "Making Lag a feature" Its only lag if it takes 30 seconds for your module to activate while others are activating instantly. Lag is an unbalanced relationship not balanced as this is. This will defeat most lagsploitz and allow some of the biggest battles in EVE history with results other than capital kills.
Question tho and sorry if it has been answered. Lets say a battle of 30 v 30 starts in a random system not reported for node reinforcement both sides bring more ships and tidi starts. Soon its 500 v 500. Is there plans in the future to potentially "pause" the node and redirect everything to a reenforced node so that say 1000 v 1000 can happen or bigger at max tidi?
The reason I ask is that with the time delay it does give both sides great time to move other forces into the area to engage. This is reality as you cant Tidi the entire cluster. This will guarantee large battles I just worry that such battles wont be planned ahead of time in a normal way and will have to take place on standard nodes. Resulting in 90% Tidi battles that go on all day or longer. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2011.10.07 11:18:00 -
[214] - Quote
PROGRESS
People asked improvements about lag, talked about how this could be handled so large fleet engagements experience could be better, CCP is doing it and they're doing it the right way.
Props to you doing this job, props to CCP who's finally took the decision of doing the right thing about this matter.
Props to CSM work on this even if in some points I still disagree with you, what is right must be recognised has what is wrong.
Better Eve for bitvets, better Eve for newbs = good for "tha" game. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2011.10.07 14:19:00 -
[215] - Quote
This really does show that CCP is serious about fixing the issues that matter to us.
What is great is this is going to stack with all their other improvements to allow some truly huuuuge space battles if done right. This really changes the game.
Of course this also gives extra incentive to report planned POS battles for node reinforcement. Othewise a day of POS bashing might become a week! :P |
Induc
Transport and ORE Mining Revival Of The Talocan Empire
0
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Posted - 2011.10.07 21:37:00 -
[216] - Quote
cool, now people can have even bigger fights |
Tiger's Spirit
Troll Hunters INC.
1
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Posted - 2011.10.08 23:08:00 -
[217] - Quote
Induc wrote:cool, now people can have even bigger fights
Dont forget 10 times longer POS,TCU,StarBase bashing when systems overloaded and time dilation tunrning on there. Results ? No one go to capture any territory in 0.0, because every action will be too long without fight, because attakers or defenders will overloading systems for tactics. Who want to shot a single TCU, 24 hours long because time dilation ??? |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2011.10.09 03:50:00 -
[218] - Quote
That works both ways and the focus will be on defeating the bad guys so you don't have to Tidi the server so bad.
Once you defeat the enemy it will become tactics to spread your forces into other systems and leave an optimal force that can do the most DPS with the least Tidi.
And anything is better than what it is now. A large fleet fight means jumping into a black screen and waking up to a new clone. This will assure that fights actually take place and the amount of tactics needed in high tidi situations will make the game far better than the few disadvantages it brings. |
Tiger's Spirit
Troll Hunters INC.
1
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Posted - 2011.10.09 08:36:00 -
[219] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:That works both ways and the focus will be on defeating the bad guys so you don't have to Tidi the server so bad.
Once you defeat the enemy it will become tactics to spread your forces into other systems and leave an optimal force that can do the most DPS with the least Tidi.
And anything is better than what it is now. A large fleet fight means jumping into a black screen and waking up to a new clone. This will assure that fights actually take place and the amount of tactics needed in high tidi situations will make the game far better than the few disadvantages it brings.
You are wrong. Spread forces ? Like today ? Everyone hate lags, but what do you see there today ? Everyone go with blob and they create those lags. They go fewer there ? No, they bring more man, and generate more lag.
With Tidi wont changes this, moreover they will bring more mans to fight to single system because they would more times to bring defensive fleets there. Tidi situantions will make to the game more bad situationsthan the few advantages what will bring.
Longer boring POS bashing, boring very long TCU shot, 3x24 hours long Outpost shot. More blob because defenders got more times to gathering fleet. Longer travel times because big fleets will slowing regions and horrible jump times at gates.
Blob makes lag thats need to fix.
Need changes like, decreasing alliance member numbers and their standing possibility. No more 3k number corps and alliances.
Need changes moon harvesting rules, like dispro or other moons shouldn't have infinite mineral, it would yield it, alliances would be obliged to changes regions and fight for new territories and moons.
Need changes the area maintenance prizes rules. Many big blob hold too much area and system, because those system prizes is ridicuolus low. Like this: 1 system mainaince cost 1x factor, and incraesing this factor (2x,3x,4x) when they wants to possess more systems. This would be chance to hold 1-2 territory for small groups, but harder for huge captured systems for big entities (superblob alliances with over 3k members).
Need smaller groups, not need more superblobs and slow-mo fights, because thats create super lag and blackscreens. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
7
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Posted - 2011.10.09 21:41:00 -
[220] - Quote
Tiger's Spirit wrote:
You are wrong. Spread forces ? Like today ? Everyone hate lags, but what do you see there today ? Everyone go with blob and they create those lags. They go fewer there ? No, they bring more man, and generate more lag.
With Tidi wont changes this, moreover they will bring more mans to fight to single system because they would more times to bring defensive fleets there. Tidi situantions will make to the game more bad situationsthan the few advantages what will bring.
Longer boring POS bashing, boring very long TCU shot, 3x24 hours long Outpost shot. More blob because defenders got more times to gathering fleet. Longer travel times because big fleets will slowing regions and horrible jump times at gates.
Blob makes lag thats need to fix.
Need changes like, decreasing alliance member numbers and their standing possibility. No more 3k number corps and alliances.
Need changes moon harvesting rules, like dispro or other moons shouldn't have infinite mineral, it would yield it, alliances would be obliged to changes regions and fight for new territories and moons.
Need changes the area maintenance prizes rules. Many big blob hold too much area and system, because those system prizes is ridicuolus low. Like this: 1 system mainaince cost 1x factor, and incraesing this factor (2x,3x,4x) when they wants to possess more systems. This would be chance to hold 1-2 territory for small groups, but harder for huge captured systems for big entities (superblob alliances with over 3k members).
Need smaller groups, not need more superblobs and slow-mo fights, because thats create super lag and blackscreens.
ohh wow... this sounds like a buthurt DRF or PL alt member! ohh cant take goons in their space cause they blob their systems cause they have a rediculous amount of people wanting to fight for their corner of eve.
newsflash genius, theres more than 1 way to kill an empire!
but back to serious spaceship tomfoolery, ill give u the numbers cause u obviously dont seem to understand how powerful TiDi is.
Currently Veritas has TiDi setup in a linear form because he's yet to see a fight that surpasses the upper limit he's set. Ill explain this now:
a typical node can host a 500-600 man battle with relatively no lag. reinforced and that goes to 800-900. at its current maximum level veritas has set a max limit of 10% time what that means is the normal node will reach the 10% time only at approx 2000. the reinforced node would reach 10% time with approx 3200 AND that would be happening with only very slight lag creeping inand NO DESYNCS, NO BLACK SCREENS.
so far the highest fleetfight in eves history was insanely laggy and had a bit under 3200 people in, it took HOURS just to load grid, it took HOURS to even fire your guns, let alone even know if you're doing damage! GOD help you if u wanted to change direction or lock a target, to even try and lock someone took HOURS more!
with TiDi, it may mean 10% time, but if it takes u 1 minute to lock a target, then OMG it may take u 10 minutes! not an hour and a half.
ohh and about the blobbing, its going to happen, you cannot stop people from participating and organising and teaming up against a common foe. Ive done it in big fleets killing only particular reds on grid and not others cause its been agreed upon to not fire on each other. no amount of caps on members, corp numbers, plue or light blue standings will change that.
u want a cap on the number of people in one place at one time, **** off back to wow where u obviously came from, stop crying about ur failures at playing a big boys game.
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Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2011.10.10 06:27:00 -
[221] - Quote
Tiger's Spirit... U mad brah?
You go from talking about what you think may happen with Tidi (Which is silly in my opinion) to talking about the size of alliances.
So instead of Tidi you want to change the very idea of nullsec? U mad? |
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CCP Spitfire
C C P C C P Alliance
221
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Posted - 2011.10.11 08:15:00 -
[222] - Quote
Imigo Montoya wrote:I would sure like to see this - making the UI seem glitchy probably isn't the ideal way to convey the message that time is behaving differently, certainly not camera control. I'm seriously impressed though, really liking what I'm seeing. At the same time I'm somewhat confused by the people hating on this. It seems to be coming from a place of ignorance so I wrote an article on EN24 that explains the fundamentals of what TiDi is actually trying to achieve in a way that I think is accessible to anyone (ie no Computer Science degree needed). I'd really appreciate your feedback Veritas, especially if my generalisation conflicts with how the specifics in this case actually work.
Hello,
CCP Veritas had some problems logging into the forums when I showed him this post, but he asked me to pass along that your summary is quite correct. Thank you for that article!
CCP Spitfire | Russian Community Coordinator @ccp_spitfire |
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X3k5
The Knights Templar Cascade Imminent
0
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Posted - 2011.10.12 01:44:00 -
[223] - Quote
I have just one word for TiDi: GENIUS!
As a 0.0 player, I have to say this is one awesome feature and massive props to CCP Veritas & co. for coming up with it.
To all the idiots who do not understand the mechanics of TiDi and are ignorantly criticizing it or saying stuff like "TiDi is just packaged lag": Go read the Time Dilation blog - http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=900 then go watch GeeShizzle MacCloud's video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgXp0S0-wPA. If you still do not understand the difference between TiDi and lag, go back to nursery school.
The Time Dilation video is misleading because the system Veritas ran it on isnt great. The GeeShizzle MacCloud video does it justice and I absolutely love it, even the camera pan albeit that might get a little annoying at 10%.
The people crying about advantages and disadvantages are also incorrect. Since both sides are still at the same time speed, there are no advantages or disadvantages to either side. The only thing that changes is that FCs will now get more time to plan their moves based on what they see. That can mean less tactical mistakes but also second guessing.
There is no nerf to small fast ships. The game mechanics are exactly the same still. In TiDi, if a small ship goes in to tackle, it still takes the same amount of time(relatively speaking) to target and shoot it down as if the ship is immediately detected in full time-speed. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2011.10.12 06:24:00 -
[224] - Quote
That sisi testing video shows the Camera does NOT need changing. Please keep it the way it is in that video or add the option to keep it that way. I love it!
TiDi is really going to make large fleet fights and absolute JOY to go to! This ought to seriously help EVE in the long run.
Thanks! |
Archetype 66
Pleasure and Pain Ares Protectiva
0
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Posted - 2011.10.12 23:04:00 -
[225] - Quote
Awesome Job, but please, don't touch the camera :p
One question :
For now, when a system is laggy, you're hampered for all kinds of actions : navigation, pvp/e etc...but also market orders, contracts, even chatting and everything else.
With TiDi on, you'll get more time to do other stuff while fighting = more requests for the node. Are you planing to counter that ? If not, this will sadly becoming a vicious circle...
Dont' get me wrong, I like the idea, but I hope you get my point (even if my english is so poor)
Why do not dilate spaming delay in channels, orders by minutes etc...? |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2011.10.12 23:53:00 -
[226] - Quote
They have already stated they will monitor the situation as it is tested and deployed. There will be more requests but not in a linear fashion. If I order my missiles to fire. I do not have to spam the command anymore even at high Tidi. |
irishbros Kanjus
The Lone Soldier
0
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Posted - 2011.10.13 18:16:00 -
[227] - Quote
Hi i updated my os to windows 7. Ok so before the update the games was running fine since ive got W7 as soon as i start the game i get little lag spikes/suttering it not anything going on on the screen it even happens when im sitting in empty space nothing around it still happen. #its so annoying that i cant stand it and cant play the game. If any one has any info on a fix i would be glad to hear it . Oh also ive updated all my drivers to newest so cant see it being drivers |
neur0zen
x Kami x
0
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Posted - 2011.10.14 05:24:00 -
[228] - Quote
Instead of having 'lag' we gonna have a slower gameplay ? ( lol ? )
Ok it's look like a lot more playable, we will not have to wait 30min to perform a basic action in those kind of fight. (So amazing for a game of spaceships battle...)
But still in an lag feeling ? Where is the difference in a player point of view ?
ps : Please try using your modules next time, like shooting your locked target ? or try to warp in/out for example, so we can see if 'our' gunz is working in lag. Not just the fleet in front of you. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
8
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Posted - 2011.10.14 12:17:00 -
[229] - Quote
in the video i wanted to see how bombs and bombers would perform in a high TiDi situation as theyre the ships that suffer the most from dropped requests, but also have the most to gain from TiDi's rebalancing of the battlefield. i had probes fitted (albeit i didnt use em - my bad!) so i didnt fit any torp launchers purely because of fitting restrictions.
the difference in a players perspective is at most something taking you 10 seconds to do in game normally will take you at max 1min 40 seconds to do in the highest TiDi situations, not half an hour or more in a biiiig battle when the server is experiencing "soul crushing lag"
i had been activating my MWD periodically tho, to check its response time. |
Cybele Lanier
Viziam Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2011.10.14 14:29:00 -
[230] - Quote
neur0zen wrote:Instead of having 'lag' we gonna have a slower gameplay ? ( lol ? ) Ok it's look like a lot more playable, we will not have to wait 30min to perform a basic action in those kind of fight. (So amazing for a game of spaceships battle...) But still in an lag feeling ?Where is the difference in a player point of view ?
Again, the difference is that the playing field is level, and everything that you command to happen will happen, though with a bit of a delay. As opposed to how it works now, when battles can often be decided by who gets hit with the most lag or when a node crashes, or when a gun can jam for twenty minutes on some guy who warped out or died half an hour earlier. |
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IIIsun trackerIII
EVE University Ivy League
0
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Posted - 2011.10.17 09:48:00 -
[231] - Quote
Thumbs up for the effort made so far. Please leave the camera alone and do not slow it down or intentionally stutter it. The new RGB/pie icon and slower targeting/ship animations indicate how slow things are getting just fine. Keep it up! |
Claire Raynor
NovaGear
7
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Posted - 2011.10.17 16:29:00 -
[232] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:GeeShizzle MacCloud wrote:not sure if veritas will enjoy this bit of test server tomfoolery but frapsed some stuff done tonight that was interesting and fun when it comes to Time Dilation... hope u guys like btw! http://youtu.be/qgXp0S0-wPA I enjoy it enough to quote it up again so more people see it ;)
Well done CCP Veritas!! I bet you are really thrilled with what you've achieved. You and your team! It is a really nice solution. Elegant design is something of beauty. I love the videos people have posted of this new function. It looks really slick! I think it is going to be something other companies will want to copy! Nice. Really nice.
:) |
Ranka Mei
TANoshii Incorporated New Eden Research.
56
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Posted - 2011.10.22 01:20:00 -
[233] - Quote
The idea is not without merit. Vid seems a bit jittery, though: time not only slows down, but motion appears to be staggering. I hope that's just some odd youtube thingy, and not part of the deal.
-- "All your monies AUR belong to us!" -- CCP |
Rasz Lin
4
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Posted - 2011.11.02 17:06:00 -
[234] - Quote
I like how even one of the main game devs computer is STRUGGLING to render couple of hundred dots on a screen. |
Rasz Lin
4
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Posted - 2011.11.02 17:10:00 -
[235] - Quote
wicked cheese wrote:as a long time eve player and having 3-4 years of 0.0 fleet battle lagfests history this is undoubtedly the best solution to lag
Easiest, not best. Best would be finally implementing MULTITHREADING and abandon 'one sol one node' straight from the 1980s setup.
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Chi Ftele
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2011.11.03 17:20:00 -
[236] - Quote
Rasz Lin wrote:Best would be finally implementing MULTITHREADING and abandon 'one sol one node' straight from the 1980s setup.
you gotta cut CCP some slack, they're climbing up what is already a mountain of work
you could be all "get a move on ya jerks!", but this slowdown-so-the-server-can-keep-up measure is good in the interim, before multithreading can be put on a realistic schedule
I could have used it back in 2005, back when your ship was fine one minute and gone the next, without nothing apparently happening, or the node just died in 10 seconds hehe That is all. |
Lee Anderson
Eternal Profiteers
3
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Posted - 2011.11.04 10:05:00 -
[237] - Quote
Very Nice video, can't wait to see this go live!! Keep up the good work CCP :) http://eveportal.net/Guides Great site for Mission Reports
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Tiger's Spirit
Troll Hunters INC.
33
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Posted - 2012.01.15 10:13:00 -
[238] - Quote
Yesterday was Tidi activated on Tranquility. Single 1 system route (gate to gate) was 10 minute long and the lag was present there. Emergency warp, no server response, after log off, i cant log on. 5 minute later i could log in, after 3 minute long black screen. Dont forget, there was just a traveling fleet without fight. Nothing changed, but every act got ridicuolus long periods. |
john roe
BearingPoint
0
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Posted - 2012.01.18 18:27:00 -
[239] - Quote
so... LAG is now called time dilatation? we had that feature implemented since early beta. thank you very much.
o/ |
Zayn Longson
P H Y S I C
11
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Posted - 2012.01.18 19:11:00 -
[240] - Quote
So lets get this straight; the developers spent time developing a "little flashing light" which shows when their server is lagging??
This may be insane, but wouldnt it have been a better idea to spend this time and money on:
1. Adding more servers to the server farm to actually REDUCE the lag, or,
2. Look at sharing out the computational load by using smart coding to have client machines do some of the calculations and return the results, which would ALSO reduce the lag in the first place? Just to give one really simple example - if only one person is in vissible range of the event, why not have THEIR machine, rather than the server, do all the calculations??
The "little light" solution is like finding somone has cut their wrist and rather than trying to fix the problem, put a big neon light above them saying "there is a problem!" |
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