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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 57 post(s) |
Luc Chastot
Daktaklakpak.
533
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 05:07:00 -
[2401] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:Rhes wrote:They don't have the engine for avatar gameplay already in place. The engine developed for Incarna can't even support more than one person in a room.
You have no evidence for this. The fact they haven't done it is not proof they can't. You've been playing for longer than I, so you should know Rhes is, in fact, correct. When they separated the dev teams behind Incarna and WoD, Incarna development stagnated so WoD could use a wholly different tech that was not compatible with EVE. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
Lateris
40
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 05:25:00 -
[2402] - Quote
We have all our answers and solutions in the lore. /end .:=[ObscuriLateris.com--áMining Corp]=:. .:=[ObscuriSoft.com- Soft Development]=:. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2003
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 06:54:00 -
[2403] - Quote
F-funny Facts (in USD):
CCP game revenue 2010: 57,428,530 CCP game revenue 2011: 63,323,357 CCP game revenue 2012: 64,436,996
CCP marketing expense 2010: (9,769,965) CCP marketing expense 2011: (9,912,335) CCP marketing expense 2012: (12,567,302)
CCP research and development expense 2010: (11,127,383) CCP research and development expense 2011: (12,972,482) CCP research and development expense 2012: (16,513,666)
CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2010: 5,482,264 CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2011: 8,817,262 CCP total comprehensive income for the period 2012: 4,597,556
2013 january-june trends vs 2012 january-june:
Game revenue UP by 4.3 milion USD Marketing expense UP by 1.9 million USD Research and development UP by 4.4 million USD
I absolutely love how in 2010-2011, the time when Incarna was coming, game revenue increased by 5.9 million USD, more than 10% rise. How it barely has stabilized after Incarna was trashed, despite marketing has swallowed almost 3 million dollars more in 2012 alone (and marketing expense keeps skyrocketing in 2013).
And above all, the thing I totally and completely love, it's development expense.
+1 million during Incarnageddon (2011) +3 million after Incarnageddon (2012) +4.5 million in the first six months of this year alone
Is there a game near you that looks like it's got 8.5 million dollars spent in additional development expense in the last 3 years?
PS: sources!
http://www.ccpgames.com/media/47002/ccp%202012%20consolidated%20financial%20statements.pdf
http://www.ccpgames.com/media/47381/ccp%20financial%20statements%20june%2030%202013.pdf The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1950
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 07:20:00 -
[2404] - Quote
Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Cypherdog wrote:Didn't you watch the Incarna development videos? Compare what was in those videos to what was actually released. Exactly, dumb ass. We never got any of that. So we had two years of wasted development time and we got a room with a couch and a microtransaction store and you want them to waste even *more* time on it? I just want to be clear that that is really what you are advocating for.
My God it's worse than I thought.
Two years... on CARBON. The thing that gave us V3, TiDi, and all the big changes since such as the new FW and Wardec systems. That's what they spend two years on. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
974
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 08:41:00 -
[2405] - Quote
Rhes wrote:raven666wings wrote:Rhes wrote: Either way there still aren't enough to make CCP change the course of the game again. If subscriptions weren't going up every quarter you'd have an argument but they are so you don't.
Make CCP change the couse of the game??? What are we now? Dellusional fanbois who think they own the game and force CCP to fire a whole dev team so they stop whining? Nope, we're all adults here Yes, we changed the course of the game when thousands of people canceled their subscriptions after Incarna was released. You guys keep bleating about the "total sci-fi emulator" that CCP was preparing in the years leading up to WiS being released...what do you think made them change direction?
20,000 sheep following a drunk megalomaniac made CCP change direction for the worse ... gee you must be proud of yourselves. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
246
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 08:54:00 -
[2406] - Quote
Guys. Click on the character name, select "Hide posts." Easier for everyone's sanity. |
Jadiss
HUN Corp. HUN Reloaded
6
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 09:00:00 -
[2407] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Arduemont wrote:Rhes wrote:Cypherdog wrote:Didn't you watch the Incarna development videos? Compare what was in those videos to what was actually released. Exactly, dumb ass. We never got any of that. So we had two years of wasted development time and we got a room with a couch and a microtransaction store and you want them to waste even *more* time on it? I just want to be clear that that is really what you are advocating for. My God it's worse than I thought. Two years... on CARBON. The thing that gave us V3, TiDi, and all the big changes since such as the new FW and Wardec systems. That's what they spend two years on.
Yeah 2 years of percious dev time gone for nothing...
fanfest 2011
Oh wait... there seems to be a bit more than just "room with a couch and a microtransaction"...
|
Jada Maroo
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1222
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 09:43:00 -
[2408] - Quote
I've said it somewhere before, but I don't know if I've said it in this thread...
Why not kill two birds with one stone and link WiS and Valkyrie to make Flying In Stations?
You go through your door and enter a ship. The ship gets to fly around and do missions or PvP in stations.
I like what I've seen for Valkyrie but... we already have flying in space in Eve. Why not make it something different? |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
848
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 10:11:00 -
[2409] - Quote
> CCP research and development expense 2012: (16,513,666)
If these numbers are correct then CCP has extremely inefficient dev team: 16 millions is 80% of StarCitizen's budget ($21mil) and this sum in development should bring a bit more than just a couple mini-games and handful of new modules per year. Roberts is able to create whole new game with comparable sum - not to mention total cost of development of Dark Age of Camelot was just $2.5mil.
P.S. Thread is heated up and got like 10+ pages during a week. I see interest to WiS raised - or discontent with CCP and EVE updates. |
Flamespar
Woof Club
782
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 10:28:00 -
[2410] - Quote
I went ahead and unsubscribed, my account will expire in December. I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
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Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21436
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 10:35:00 -
[2411] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I went ahead and unsubscribed, my account will expire in December. I'll follow next March, wenn Elite Dangeous hits... I doubt that CCP will do anything to change my mind until then. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1952
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:11:00 -
[2412] - Quote
Flamespar wrote:I went ahead and unsubscribed, my account will expire in December.
I am still waiting for more details of the upcoming expansion before I unsub. As long as what we have seen so far is less than half of the total, I will hang around. But I have a sneaking suspicion that what we have seen is most of what we will get. If that's the case then -2 accounts.
Lipbite wrote: P.S. Thread is heated up and got like 10+ pages during a week. Either interest to WiS raised - or discontent with CCP and EVE updates.
I'm pretty sure, most of the new posts are from Rhes' trolling. That said, I have seen a lot of new faces in this thread recently. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
345
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:25:00 -
[2413] - Quote
Quote:I absolutely love how in 2010-2011, the time when Incarna was coming, game revenue increased by 5.9 million USD My moneys!
Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Syds Sinclair
Aliastra Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:28:00 -
[2414] - Quote
..I've read some of the Star Citizen devblogs. I gather that they have procured approximately 20m dollars for their game development.
Things are not looking good.
Prediction: SC will fall on its face. 6 months in - become Freemium. 1.5 years in - close the servers and pocket some cash.
Then where will all you Dancing Space Wizzards go? |
RAW23
255
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:37:00 -
[2415] - Quote
raven666wings wrote:
The fear of losing subscribers which in my opinion was overrated.
It wasn't a fear. They simply did lose many subscribers, as has been pretty well documented, and they reacted to the fact that their business was going to have very great trouble operating on a model that assumed annual growth when, in fact, it was moving in the opposite direction. They righted the ship and are now pretty much back to where they were before they started shedding customers (maybe even a little ahead now). Had they not taken the drastic action that they did they would have been in HUGE financial trouble as they would have lost many more players.
There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
976
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:38:00 -
[2416] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:..I've read some of the Star Citizen devblogs. I gather that they have procured approximately 20m dollars for their game development.
Things are not looking good.
Prediction: SC will fall on its face. 6 months in - become Freemium. 1.5 years in - close the servers and pocket some cash.
Then where will all you Dancing Space Wizzards go?
Obvious troll. Star Citizen is now the single most successful kickstarter EVER. In an interview Chris Roberts stated that he had corporate sponsors ready to provide him with $10 million if the kickstarter campaign drew in $2 to $3 m. When they hit $10m just from the public he told the corporate sponsors they were not needed anymore. He turned down $10m (that would have come with corporate overview of his project) because the fans keep giving and you say things are not looking good? Ye keep on dreaming about your fascination with wizards. This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1952
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:42:00 -
[2417] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:raven666wings wrote:
The fear of losing subscribers which in my opinion was overrated.
It wasn't a fear. They simply did lose many subscribers, as has been pretty well documented, and they reacted to the fact that their business was going to have very great trouble operating on a model that assumed annual growth when, in fact, it was moving in the opposite direction. They righted the ship and are now pretty much back to where they were before they started shedding customers (maybe even a little ahead now). Had they not taken the drastic action that they did they would have been in HUGE financial trouble as they would have lost many more players.
And although the above is true, I think the point is that the lost subs were nothing to do with CCP's vision of WiS. They lost subs because of a myriad of other mistakes they made running up to and around the time of release of Incarna. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
RAW23
255
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:43:00 -
[2418] - Quote
J3ssica Alba wrote:
20,000 sheep following a drunk megalomaniac made CCP change direction for the worse ... gee you must be proud of yourselves.
You show a remarkable lack of knowledge of the sequence of events for someone who wants to hold forth on the topic. Assuming that the drunk megalomaniac is Mittens, he was very very much a follower and not a leader in the case of Incarna. He certainly had nothing to do with organising the popular outcry and only became involved much later, after CCP called the CSM to Iceland to help them deal with the issue. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
RAW23
255
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:45:00 -
[2419] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:[quote=RAW23]
And although the above is true, I think the point is that the lost subs were nothing to do with CCP's vision of WiS. They lost subs because of a myriad of other mistakes they made running up to and around the time of release of Incarna.
I don't think anyone really objected to CCP's publicly trailed vision of WiS. What they objected to was the immense disconnect between the vision and the reality of its implementation after it had sucked vast quantities of resources away from core gameplay. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
J3ssica Alba
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
976
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 12:58:00 -
[2420] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:J3ssica Alba wrote:
20,000 sheep following a drunk megalomaniac made CCP change direction for the worse ... gee you must be proud of yourselves.
You show a remarkable lack of knowledge of the sequence of events for someone who wants to hold forth on the topic. Assuming that the drunk megalomaniac is Mittens, he was very very much a follower and not a leader in the case of Incarna. He certainly had nothing to do with organising the popular outcry and only became involved much later, after CCP called the CSM to Iceland to help them deal with the issue.
Tbh I don't care what his involvement was or wasn't but all I hear is the goonsheep bleating in this thread This is my signature. There are many others like it, but this one is mine.-á Without me, my signature is useless. Without my signature, I am useless |
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Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1952
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 13:01:00 -
[2421] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:Arduemont wrote:
And although the above is true, I think the point is that the lost subs were nothing to do with CCP's vision of WiS. They lost subs because of a myriad of other mistakes they made running up to and around the time of release of Incarna.
I don't think anyone really objected to CCP's publicly trailed vision of WiS. What they objected to was the immense disconnect between the vision and the reality of its implementation after it had sucked vast quantities of resources away from core gameplay.
Well, the reality was that it was never implemented at all. Unless you want to argue that our CQ is anything more than a fancy screen saver.
The expansion Incarna was marketed as being about Walking in Stations, but the reality of it was that CCP rolled out CARBON in Incarna. That's what Incarna was really about. And no one can argue that Carbon was a waste of time, especially as it is the basis for most of the changes we have seen since. V3, TiDi, all the new UIs, the new Crimewatch, and everything else more or less.
What CCP did wrong, was expectation management. If they had said, "Look, we're rolling out the Carbon engine in the next expansion. You wont see most of the benefit until our next expansion, but here is a single room as a teaser of what is to come", then people would have known and understood. Instead, they hyped the **** out of something that probably took up a tiny part of their development time from that expansion, and then were surprised that everyone was disappointed.
The point is that Incarna was no reflection on what is possible for WiS, and shouldn't be used as an argument against it's development.
J3ssica Alba wrote:Tbh I don't care what his involvement was or wasn't but all I hear is the goonsheep bleating in this thread
/me Facepalm. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
RAW23
255
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 13:21:00 -
[2422] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:[quote=RAW23]
The point is that Incarna was no reflection on what is possible for WiS, and shouldn't be used as an argument against it's development.
I certainly agree with this - Incarna didn't represent what was possible and I'm hopeful that they won't **** it up to such a grand extent again. However, after four (?) years of development, what it did represent was a pathetic actualisation of the vision. Now, the idea that the next expansion would have been the big one and CCP just needed to manage expectations better is attractive but I'm not convinced that it stands up to scrutiny from a historical perspective. CCP themselves have admitted that they had no actual sustainable vision for the content of WiS. It's not the case that great stuff was just six months away. On the contrary, it sounds like little more than a few extra skins for CQ were around the corner and perhaps a couple of pretty crappy facebook style board-games. They flat out stated that there wasn't actually any cool stuff on the near horizon, probably because they had become caught up in the avatar ownership idea, thinking that delivering 'thousand dollar jeans' to EvE's geeky fanbase was an end in itself.
As far as I can see, the current project is trying to do what should have been done in the first place. Create content first.
There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
850
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 13:39:00 -
[2423] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:..I've read some of the Star Citizen devblogs. I gather that they have procured approximately 20m dollars for their game development.
Things are not looking good.
Prediction: SC will fall on its face. 6 months in - become Freemium. 1.5 years in - close the servers and pocket some cash.
Then where will all you Dancing Space Wizzards go?
1) almost all "sandboxy" space games during last decade gathered ~85% "very interesting" ratings (EVE has 84%) including X-series, Space Rangers, people still play Freelancer (by Chris Roberts / SC author) 10 years after its release - it's impossible to create boring space sandbox game;
2) there will be 4 more sandbox releases - Elite Dangerous, Repopulation, Everquest Next, Camelot Unchained - 3 of them are being created by very reputable devs, so this is the last year when EVE doesn't have any interesting sandbox competitors and in a year there won't be any problems to find alternative sandbox game for any taste and all of them will have avatar gameplay. Unlike EVE. |
Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
345
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:00:00 -
[2424] - Quote
Incarnagate, somerblinkgate, tosgate, or maybe even rubicongate?
You people spend too much time on forums. Protect yourself from CONCORD today! Tinfoil hats, quality product. Styled after pirate hats. |
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
2010
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:00:00 -
[2425] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:Syds Sinclair wrote:..I've read some of the Star Citizen devblogs. I gather that they have procured approximately 20m dollars for their game development.
Things are not looking good.
Prediction: SC will fall on its face. 6 months in - become Freemium. 1.5 years in - close the servers and pocket some cash.
Then where will all you Dancing Space Wizzards go? 1) almost all "sandboxy" space games during last decade gathered ~85% "very interesting" ratings (EVE has 84%) including X-series, Space Rangers, people still play Freelancer (by Chris Roberts / SC author) 10 years after its release - it's impossible to create boring space sandbox game; 2) there will be 4 more sandbox releases - Elite Dangerous, Repopulation, Everquest Next, Camelot Unchained - 3 of them are being created by very reputable devs, so this is the last year when EVE doesn't have any interesting sandbox competitors and in a year there won't be any problems to find alternative sandbox game for any taste and all of them will have avatar gameplay. Unlike EVE.
Heh, but EVE will let you conquer space, hold it, exploit it, fight massive battles over it and eventually lose it to [enter bigger alliance], unlike... errr.. exactly as it has been doing for 10 years!
And in case that such prospect is not your piece of cake, or you just fancy being a human doing human stuff in a SF universe rather than be an anonymous ship asploding other anonymous ships, well, CCP also haves a plan for you: give your money to someone else! As that's exactly what they've been doing with your EVE monies for some years now... The Greater Fool Bar is now open for business, 24/7. Come and have drinks and fun somewhere between RL and New Eden! |
Shalua Rui
Rui Freelance Mining
21436
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:01:00 -
[2426] - Quote
Syds Sinclair wrote:I've read some of the Star Citizen devblogs. I gather that they have procured approximately 20m dollars for their game development.
Things are not looking good.
Prediction: SC will fall on its face. 6 months in - become Freemium. 1.5 years in - close the servers and pocket some cash. Oh 'come on, atleast be an educated troll, hm?
First: The budget it totally irrelevant... EVE's development only took 2.6 mil.
Second: SC has no subscription fees, only a chash shop, that offers nothing that cannot be bought with ingame cradits. What the game already has, however, are 260k backers that pledged an average of 60$... and all those will be players. "ginger forum goddess, space gypsy and stone nibbler extraordinaire!" Shalua Rui - CEO and founder of Rui Freelance Mining (RFLM)
Feature ideas I had/endorse: Crew Managment, Orcas as mobile Bases |
Flamespar
Woof Club
785
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:01:00 -
[2427] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:Incarnagate, somerblinkgate, tosgate, or maybe even rubicongate? You people spend too much time on forums.
Shutyourgate? I can post on a forum, therefore I represent everyone. |
Varius Xeral
Galactic Trade Syndicate
1267
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:25:00 -
[2428] - Quote
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:And in case that such prospect is not your piece of cake, or you just fancy being a human being doing human stuff in a SF universe rather than be an anonymous ship asploding other anonymous ships, well, CCP also haves a plan for you: give your money to someone else!
That's what we've been telling you for years now.
This game isn't for you, and it never will be. Other games aren't for me, and never will be, but I don't hang around the forums suggesting they should completely alter the fundamentals of the game.
Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal |
Arduemont
12 pound opinion
1953
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:26:00 -
[2429] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:Arduemont wrote:[quote=RAW23]
The point is that Incarna was no reflection on what is possible for WiS, and shouldn't be used as an argument against it's development.
I certainly agree with this - Incarna didn't represent what was possible and I'm hopeful that they won't **** it up to such a grand extent again. However, after four (?) years of development, what it did represent was a pathetic actualisation of the vision. Now, the idea that the next expansion would have been the big one and CCP just needed to manage expectations better is attractive but I'm not convinced that it stands up to scrutiny from a historical perspective. CCP themselves have admitted that they had no actual sustainable vision for the content of WiS. It's not the case that great stuff was just six months away. On the contrary, it sounds like little more than a few extra skins for CQ were around the corner and perhaps a couple of pretty crappy facebook style board-games. They flat out stated that there wasn't actually any cool stuff on the near horizon, probably because they had become caught up in the avatar ownership idea, thinking that delivering 'thousand dollar jeans' to EvE's geeky fanbase was an end in itself. As far as I can see, the current project is trying to do what should have been done in the first place. Create content first.
Seems like you and I are more or less on the same page. Except I think CCP are perfectly capable of making this prototype a reality, but they won't because they are now looking after three other projects that are being funded by our subs. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Teinyhr
A Club for Reputable Gentlemen
248
|
Posted - 2013.10.01 14:41:00 -
[2430] - Quote
Varius Xeral wrote: This game isn't for you, and it never will be. Other games aren't for me, and never will be, but I don't hang around the forums suggesting they should completely alter the fundamentals of the game.
Do humor me by telling how adding avatar gameplay would alter fundamentals of EVE gameplay in any way? Provided it is entirely optional to engage in, and I seriously doubt that after Incarna it would be ever forced on people again. |
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