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Drace Burne
Platinium Rats Test Friends Please Ignore
0
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Posted - 2012.10.09 16:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
Since the mining barge rebalance the Orca has been looking less useful. I've been thinking that the best way to cope is to switch the 5% cargo bonus go twards the ore hold. |
Belthazor4011
Battle BV
62
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Posted - 2012.10.09 17:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
You know the main reason for an Orca is the boosts right, not the hold?
I mean its decent size but a couple of Hulk's will fill one in no time. |
Khaiton LaSalle
Ted's dead. Alcoholic.
6
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Posted - 2012.10.09 17:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yes, it is true that the main reason to use an Orca is for the bonus. But with the change to the Hulk, I agree that the Orca should have a ore hold bonus. Without an increase to the ore hold then an Orca, supporting just a couple of Hulks, is the one doing the bounce back and forth to a station, and that defeats the purpose of a command ship.
Just my two cents. |
Rodney Spears
Black Adder Dynamic The Lost Accord
6
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Posted - 2012.10.09 17:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
I agree. I've been saving for an Orca for awhile and finally finish training for it last week as well as my boosting skills needing. I have two mining accounts. Since the new rebalance of the Retrievers, I dont' think it's close to being worth spending all that money on an Orca, when I'm using two retrievers. I might gain more ore per hour, but considering jump times, I don't think it's worth it. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
192
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Posted - 2012.10.09 18:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Not sure if trolls or just really dumb. Amat victoria curam. |
Idris Helion
University of Caille Gallente Federation
155
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Posted - 2012.10.09 19:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
The main use for an Orca lies in boosting, not in storing ore.
I rarely use my Orca in the belts unless I have more than three miners out there. It's better to just put everyone in a Mack running lasers until you hit three or four miners -- that's the point at which the boosts of an Orca outweigh the value of having another miner in the belt.
The Orca actually makes a lot more sense as an exploration and hauling ship. As an exploration-support vessel it is superb: it can carry fitted ships in its hold, so you can carry both scanning and combat vessels (and a shuttle to quickly scout ahead). The corporate holds are unscannable and drop no loot if you get popped. Also, the Orca is a pretty tough beast to take down if properly tanked -- it makes an unappetizing gank target (esp. since the gankers can't scan your hold, and wouldn't get a loot drop from it even if they could).
As a hauler, you get a significant cargo capacity boost over even the most cargo-maxed industrial, but also get all of the Orca's other strengths.
Even if you don't do any mining at all, the Orca is a very good ship to have in your hangar.
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Nor Tzestu
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
47
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Posted - 2012.10.09 20:02:00 -
[7] - Quote
Idris Helion wrote:The main use for an Orca lies in boosting, not in storing ore.
I rarely use my Orca in the belts unless I have more than three miners out there. It's better to just put everyone in a Mack running lasers until you hit three or four miners -- that's the point at which the boosts of an Orca outweigh the value of having another miner in the belt.
The Orca actually makes a lot more sense as an exploration and hauling ship. As an exploration-support vessel it is superb: it can carry fitted ships in its hold, so you can carry both scanning and combat vessels (and a shuttle to quickly scout ahead). The corporate holds are unscannable and drop no loot if you get popped. Also, the Orca is a pretty tough beast to take down if properly tanked -- it makes an unappetizing gank target (esp. since the gankers can't scan your hold, and wouldn't get a loot drop from it even if they could).
As a hauler, you get a significant cargo capacity boost over even the most cargo-maxed industrial, but also get all of the Orca's other strengths.
Even if you don't do any mining at all, the Orca is a very good ship to have in your hangar.
All kinds of this. Hell, if your all about mining "boosts" fit out a cyclone, it's dirt cheap and you can get into the ship super easy once your links training is done.
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CorInaXeraL
Order of the Silver Dragons Silver Dragonz
237
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Posted - 2012.10.09 21:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Drace Burne wrote:Switch the 5% cargo bonus go twards the ore hold.
Or...use the cargo hold to fit overflow from the ore hold?
Just a thought. My Orca's working as intended.
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Beat General
Painkiller.
59
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Posted - 2012.10.09 21:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
As usual, constant rage on the eve forums. |
Piugattuk
CLOROFLORFILAPLANKTONPLATES
71
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Posted - 2012.10.09 22:30:00 -
[10] - Quote
Can an orca boost from inside a POS or in the system without being at the mining site? |
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Marc Callan
Interstellar Steel Templis Dragonaors
23
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Posted - 2012.10.09 22:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Can an orca boost from inside a POS or in the system without being at the mining site?
In-system, in space, and active - given those three conditions, the Orca boosts will work.
I've been on mining ops in the past where there were two Orcas running, one pacing the barges to hold the ore, and a second parked off the base station with its mining links running to provide boosts. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
137
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Posted - 2012.10.09 23:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote:Can an orca boost from inside a POS or in the system without being at the mining site?
Yes, at least if / until off grid boosting gets nerfed (and I do hope it does). But that is a whooole 'nother discussion (I think its up to somewhere around 30+ pages of ideas and anger on both sides of the fence on that thread).
Orca is great for boosts, has unscannable cargo, can hold unpackaged ships, is the only thing in between indies and freighters, for cargo space (can hold mid 100's m3 if you are willing to give up some tank), has a decent tank, Tractor beam bonus and can do all of this in high sec.
It is the go-to all around support ship for mining, exploration, away-from-home-system missioning, Wormholes, and just about anything else thats needed.
Working as intended. ;) |
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
192
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Posted - 2012.10.10 16:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
I love my ORCA. use it all the time for many different things.
It would be nice though to see the ore hold boosted to 100m3.
When I do use it for mining ops it is in the belt with HULKS dumping ore into it. Fitted for max cargo it can hold over 170m3 of ore or ice, but that leaves it far to gankable. Fitting a 230k ehp tank can still leave you with about 140m3 for ore, but that requires all cargo and corp hangers to be empty. I really don't see how a 50k m3 ore hold only buff would be game breaking. it is just ore, and would be a reasonable buff considering how much ore capacity was added to the mining ships.
You used to be able to get a HULK up to a little over 10k m3 with expanders and rigs. but that left you with no tank. now a Mack can hold 35k m3 and still fit a full tank. 3 times that of the old max cargo HULK with way more tank and I believe better yield. I know the max yield HULK could and still can out mine the Mack, but I believe the old max cargo HULK with 0 MLU's had a lower yield than the new mack fit for max yield which still has 3 times the ore capacity and a better tank.
It just seems fitting to me that with the mining barges and exhumers being buffed the mining support ships the ORCA and ROQUAL should also get some love. Doubling the ORE hold does not seem like it would hurt the game in any way. It might even cause these ships to be used more for their intended purpose. Roqual's where designed to be used in the belts, hence the tractor beam boost and the capital tractor beams. Players just don't use them there as they cost to much and are impossible to reliably defend. |
Marcus Gideon
Federal Defense Operations Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
38
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Posted - 2012.10.10 16:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
Umm...
Mining isn't meant to be a solo activity. Well, it can be... but that's what the Mack is for.
If you want to make a mining operation out of it...
Hulks for mining the ore, kicking out Jet Cans every now and then.
Orca nearby, running gang links and tractoring in the Jet Cans, storing in the ORE BAY, CARGO BAY, and CORP HANGAR (holy hell... you can put rock in all those places!?!?!?)
Industrial running back and forth between the station and the Orca.
Indy can pull ore out of the corp hangar, and Orca pilot can shuffle more into there for the Indy to grab.
See how its a marvelous team effort? And see how none of it requires modifying any of the ships stats? Miners doing what they do best. Orca not losing gang links by warping around too much.
The right tools for the job =) |
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
107
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Posted - 2012.10.10 18:41:00 -
[15] - Quote
What else then ur Orca can transport unpacked ships? |
Marcus Gideon
Federal Defense Operations Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
40
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Posted - 2012.10.11 05:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
Flurk Hellbron wrote:What else then ur Orca can transport unpacked ships? Just Carriers and such... nothing in High Sec though.
By my example above, a "typical" mining fleet could have at least 2 miners who arrive in some other craft (possibly PvP fit in case of attack) and swap out for the Hulks stored inside the Orca.
If the Orca remains close enough, they can swap back to their combat ships if/when attackers arrive. Not to mention, remaining close enough to the Orca lets them drop ore directly into the corp hangar instead of Jet Canning any of it. |
Robert De'Arneth
102
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Posted - 2012.10.11 12:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
I disagree, we find our Orca pilots quite useful. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
378
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Posted - 2012.10.11 12:51:00 -
[18] - Quote
Drace Burne wrote:Since the mining barge rebalance the Orca has been looking less useful. I've been thinking that the best way to cope is to switch the 5% cargo bonus go twards the ore hold.
Irrelevant. The mining barge rebalance may have changed their local ore storage, but the mining rates are essentially about the same. So whatever Ore storage issues the Orca had before the balance is the same as after the balance. |
Vilnius Zar
Ordo Ardish
195
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Posted - 2012.10.12 09:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Drace Burne wrote:Since the mining barge rebalance the Orca has been looking less useful. I've been thinking that the best way to cope is to switch the 5% cargo bonus go twards the ore hold. Irrelevant. The mining barge rebalance may have changed their local ore storage, but the mining rates are essentially about the same. So whatever Ore storage issues the Orca had before the balance is the same as after the balance.
The point you're missing is that the cargohold is bigger than the orehold so if there's a multiplier happening due to skills it nets more result if it's applied to the cargohold. If it WOULD change to an orehold bonus then it would have less overal space and it'd also be less versatile for hauling other goods.
In short; OP is whining about something he doesn't understand. Amat victoria curam. |
Riyal
Chode Extravaganza
51
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Posted - 2012.10.13 07:03:00 -
[20] - Quote
Vilnius Zar wrote:Drace Burne wrote:Since the mining barge rebalance the Orca has been looking less useful. I've been thinking that the best way to cope is to switch the 5% cargo bonus go twards the ore hold. The point you're missing is that the cargohold is bigger than the orehold so if there's a multiplier happening due to skills it nets more result if it's applied to the cargohold. If it WOULD change to an orehold bonus then it would have less overal space and it'd also be less versatile for hauling other goods. In short; OP is whining about something he doesn't understand.
This ^, you all realise that ore can be put in the cargo hold? this change would take the mini freighter role from Orca. The ore hold just gives it a space bonus when hauling only ore/ice. |
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Kamii OhnoKazii
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.10.13 20:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
The orca doesn't really even need an ore hold - counter intuitive as it might seem it needs "Cargo" [mineral hold] capacity, as alot of miners use this to truck not only their ships/gear to the system of mining, but also to truck that same load of minerals to market and regear up for the next op... [Mining RV].
What it could use in a rebalance though is:
- Tweek the main bay size a little to fit in the ORE ships better wouldn't mind 2x Hulks, 3x Mack, 4x Skiff, or better 1x Hulk, 1x Mack and 1x Skiff hull - that would be optimal, then it's rather like a jack-of-all trades RV where you can truck your three ships and pull out the one you want to use on the "adventure mining".
- Drone space [bandwidth is fine imho] - always like having more spare drones, in a fleet op you would want to be able to launch-abandon alot of drones as field-replacement spares to the operative miners, this isn't a big deal but it would be nice to have a few more packed in there.
- Slot layout, I would really like to see a 3rd low slot, DCU and then 2x WCS II for travel mode - or even just standard fit... my lock time sucks anyway and I have no guns to nerf the range... and any pilot that doesn't have his/her head up the back side IF running CAP for the fleet puts the drones on [Guard Mode] on aggro miners, not trying to lock them themselves... [watch your add list in fleet for flashing reds]. might be OP, but I don't care I like my Orca enough to say this.
- HS, aux... me wants one... but OP, prob... but that Cloak w/ 3x Links, is just calling to me... Shield/Foreman/Forman... Cloak... oh my... *cough*
- Ore bay... I guess.... whatever...
- Cargo Rigs and Cargo... LEAVE IT ALONE.
- Allow fleet members [check box] just as Corp Members option to access hangars... this should have been done a long long long long long long long long long.... time ago... [options!... we like them CCP].
Ok TL:DR here but own well I had time and was bored... bye-iee! |
Marcus Gideon
Federal Defense Operations Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
49
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Posted - 2012.10.13 21:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
One trick everyone seems to have forgotten, or at least haven't mastered since the new Inventory interface...
You don't have to be corp, to use the Orca's corp hangar.
Specifically, the Hulks can park nearby... with their cargo bay open, and the Orca's corp hangar tree visible beneath that.
You grab the ore in your hold, then drag and drop into one of the Corp divisions. Don't hover the cursor, or it will attempt to display the contents. That's what triggers the "you are not a corpie" warning. Just drag and drop quickly, and the rock will magically disappear from view.
The Orca pilot will be able to see it, and rearrange as needed.
The only person who really might need to be a corpie, is the hauler that comes to get it from the Orca collection point. If they can see and reach into the corp divisions, there's no need for an exposed Jet Can at all. |
Barrak
Wormhole Engineers Greater Realms
66
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Posted - 2012.10.14 11:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
Don't mess with it!
It's Jack, not Master Jack.
Leave my secret hauler alone!
ps... If you managed to get changed pushed through due to this thread then expect ALL of wormhole inhabitants to hunt you down forever |
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
10
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Posted - 2012.10.25 15:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Marcus Gideon wrote:Umm...
Mining isn't meant to be a solo activity. Well, it can be... but that's what the Mack is for.
If you want to make a mining operation out of it...
Hulks for mining the ore, kicking out Jet Cans every now and then.
Orca nearby, running gang links and tractoring in the Jet Cans, storing in the ORE BAY, CARGO BAY, and CORP HANGAR (holy hell... you can put rock in all those places!?!?!?)
Industrial running back and forth between the station and the Orca.
Indy can pull ore out of the corp hangar, and Orca pilot can shuffle more into there for the Indy to grab.
See how its a marvelous team effort? And see how none of it requires modifying any of the ships stats? Miners doing what they do best. Orca not losing gang links by warping around too much.
The right tools for the job =)
Drop the Indy for a second Orca and you have a winner there. |
Ashimat
Reconfiguration Nation Transmission Lost
77
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Posted - 2012.10.25 16:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
What? you can boost mining ops with a Orca!? Amazing! And here I was thinking it was designed to help us w-space folks close wormholes...
j/k, I love the darn thing. And I don't even use it as a booster. http://rnat-postmortem.blogspot.se |
gulftobay
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
119
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Posted - 2012.10.25 22:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ashimat wrote:What? you can boost mining ops with a Orca!? Amazing! And here I was thinking it was designed to help us w-space folks close wormholes... j/k, I love the darn thing. And I don't even use it as a booster.
Nice article on the Orca. |
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