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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Keran Set
Deutsche Freelancer Corporation
0
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Posted - 2012.10.14 03:26:00 -
[481] - Quote
Actually, its not cool , that i read through almost thsi entire thread and the last two pages kinda seemed like the first two...and everyone else, talking about "discussing"...
My though an this whole thing is, that the mechanics are going to change, people will adapt, it has happened before. And again yes, people might now be favored that werent before and vice versa, also happened before.
New players might approach some ways in the game differently than before. So what. There will still be "crime" in high and i bet you it wont really suffer, just play out in new ways.
("He is not flaming the new mechanics, he must be a safe-hungry carebear" -....there was a comment about bleating sheep somewhere around here.)
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James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
972
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 06:40:00 -
[482] - Quote
Keran Set wrote:My though an this whole thing is, that the mechanics are going to change, people will adapt, it has happened before.
I'm sure you've realized by now that that doesn't make this a good change. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
360
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Posted - 2012.10.14 08:24:00 -
[483] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Vimsy Vortis wrote:People who don't PVP in highsec telling highsec PVPers how new mechanics will affect highsec PVP.
Sure is valuable discourse there. I ain't naw NASCAR driver, but I sure think it would do well for y'all to turn right every once in a while.
Well, in all fairness, NASCAR is to racing what McDonald's is to food, or what professional wrestling is to sports, sooooo...
There is a fine and proper artistry to wielding verbal scalpels, such that the crap-poster you've slashed doesn't even know they've been cut. But verbal bludgeons -- Those are just fun. |
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
131
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 14:24:00 -
[484] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:You're ignoring the fact that this is a massive deterrent against crime in highsec. Meaning that for people who already play highsec safely, now have it even safer. Congratulations, we're one step closer to Trammel, all because of you ******** highsec carebears. The prison system and the death penalty are also deterrents, doesn't stop people committing crime, your actions will now have consequences. Criminal actions in this game have had consequences ever since CONCORD was introduced. What this is doing is continuing to close the gap. It's a slow elimination of all crime in highsec. We're not joking or exaggerating when we see this eventually leading to not being able to fire weapons on a player at all in highsec unless you're at war with them or otherwise legal targets.
So, you mean there would be like, a high level of security in high sec? How novel.. |
Lyrrashae
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
360
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 17:02:00 -
[485] - Quote
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:
So, you mean there would be like, a high level of security in high sec? How novel..
There is already a high level of security in hisec.
Thing is, you have to be aware of at least basic mechanics --which are explained extensively in the wiki, among a great many other places-- and halfway awake, and have two braincells to rub together.
EVE isn't big enough, and proportionally, hisec is too big for perfect safety to work.
I can see it happening in a universe the size of what's envisioned for say, Infinity (250mn-plus systems, last I heard), and even there the "Core" systems (think of them like "ultra hisec") will be very, very few compared to the rest, and have minimal rewards/content (just enough to get you started with a small reserve, basically.)
Why should complete willing lack of situational awareness be protected in free-PvP/full-penalty-on-death sandbox?
It's not supposed to work like that. There is a fine and proper artistry to wielding verbal scalpels, such that the crap-poster you've slashed doesn't even know they've been cut. But verbal bludgeons -- Those are just fun. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
627
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 17:06:00 -
[486] - Quote
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:So, you mean there would be like, a high level of security in high sec? How novel.. So, what you sound like you mean is "Hi-sec should be totally safe..."
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1589
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 20:14:00 -
[487] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:So, you mean there would be like, a high level of security in high sec? How novel.. So, what you sound like you mean is "Hi-sec should be totally safe..." Highest security.
Just, you know, preventing all non-safe PVP. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
972
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 21:20:00 -
[488] - Quote
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:You're ignoring the fact that this is a massive deterrent against crime in highsec. Meaning that for people who already play highsec safely, now have it even safer. Congratulations, we're one step closer to Trammel, all because of you ******** highsec carebears. The prison system and the death penalty are also deterrents, doesn't stop people committing crime, your actions will now have consequences. Criminal actions in this game have had consequences ever since CONCORD was introduced. What this is doing is continuing to close the gap. It's a slow elimination of all crime in highsec. We're not joking or exaggerating when we see this eventually leading to not being able to fire weapons on a player at all in highsec unless you're at war with them or otherwise legal targets. So, you mean there would be like, a high level of security in high sec? How novel.. How novel indeed. Isn't that what you already have? What you want is risk free highsec, which will be the death of this game. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
816
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 22:20:00 -
[489] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:So, you mean there would be like, a high level of security in high sec? How novel.. So, what you sound like you mean is "Hi-sec should be totally safe..."
You can now put bounty on everyone from everywhere -> this is a buff to ganking-> more pvp as long as you are willing to take the RISK.
You can buy killrights, trigger the guy everywhere and shoot it. -> this is a buff, creates more pvp when there was none.
If someone don't want to get flag because he's risk averse all he has to do is avoid to get flag. The one liking pvp and actually accepting risk he WILL make sort he gets flag to everyone. This wasn't possible before, therefore this is a buff to high sec pvp.
Since when bringing more pvp opportunities is making high sec safer? -it isn't, pvp opportunities will be easier and only the risk averse ones will stay dock or moan about these awesome changes. brb |
Lord Zim
1722
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Posted - 2012.10.14 22:47:00 -
[490] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:You can buy killrights, trigger the guy everywhere and shoot it. -> this is a buff, creates more pvp when there was none. Are you seriously going to pretend that the changes which CCP are putting in aren't going to have a drastic effect on supply and demand?
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Since when bringing more pvp opportunities is making high sec safer? -it isn't, pvp opportunities will be easier and only the risk averse ones will stay dock or moan about these awesome changes. I guess that answers that question, then. You are actually going to pretend this. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
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Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1581
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Posted - 2012.10.14 22:50:00 -
[491] - Quote
Tanaka Sekigahara wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:You're ignoring the fact that this is a massive deterrent against crime in highsec. Meaning that for people who already play highsec safely, now have it even safer. Congratulations, we're one step closer to Trammel, all because of you ******** highsec carebears. The prison system and the death penalty are also deterrents, doesn't stop people committing crime, your actions will now have consequences. Criminal actions in this game have had consequences ever since CONCORD was introduced. What this is doing is continuing to close the gap. It's a slow elimination of all crime in highsec. We're not joking or exaggerating when we see this eventually leading to not being able to fire weapons on a player at all in highsec unless you're at war with them or otherwise legal targets. So, you mean there would be like, a high level of security in high sec? How novel.. Low-risk means low-value. Do the math.
If nobody saves the risk-averse from themselves, they will devour their very relevancy.
Risk is a fundamental tenet of Eve Online because it adds value.
That is a fact even in high-security space, as the tutorials clearly indicate (more than once). He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
816
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 22:58:00 -
[492] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:You can buy killrights, trigger the guy everywhere and shoot it. -> this is a buff, creates more pvp when there was none. Are you seriously going to pretend that the changes which CCP are putting in aren't going to have a drastic effect on supply and demand?
Simple, can flip more, gank more and you give to more players the opportunity to shoot at you. Isn't what you want, more pvp? And I really don't care about "supply/demand" poor argument. Acting like you do right now will give you more pvp opportunities, that's all it matters.
Lord Zim wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Since when bringing more pvp opportunities is making high sec safer? -it isn't, pvp opportunities will be easier and only the risk averse ones will stay dock or moan about these awesome changes. I guess that answers that question, then. You are actually going to pretend this.
There's no question around, just a fact: you're using of all the possible words in your dictionary just to say you don't want to be less safe in high sec. And that, any one with even a low English level already understood. brb |
Lord Zim
1723
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 23:00:00 -
[493] - Quote
Actually, this discussion has made me decide to make a ganker alt just to spite Stoffer and people like you. So try another strawman argument. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1581
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 23:04:00 -
[494] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Actually, this discussion has made me decide to make a ganker alt just to spite Stoffer and people like you. So try another strawman argument. I'm training one now, and I've got another ready to rock. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
816
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 23:05:00 -
[495] - Quote
Yes, we understood the strawman arguments for a while now. That's why so many are having fun with this tears collection thread. brb |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1581
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 23:11:00 -
[496] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Yes, we understood the strawman arguments for a while now. That's why so many are having fun with this tears collection thread. I see that you are in an NPC corporation. Not sure how I missed this earlier.
I would imagine that your days of war-dec immunity will come to an end eventually.
Then you will know the true nature of risk. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Lord Zim
1725
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 23:26:00 -
[497] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Yes, we understood the strawman arguments for a while now. That's why so many are having fun with this tears collection thread. I'll let you in on a little secret, since you keep on assuming that people are thinking squarely about themselves and can't possibly be thinking about what would be better overall: I haven't had even the vaguest interest in hisec ganking the last 4 years. When I say that these changes are made squarely to curb hisec ganking and aggression in general, I'm not speaking from my point of view, I'm not crying "bitter ganker tears" or whatever the **** you seem to insist on trying to attribute to me, I'm telling you what will happen in the game as a whole. With these changes, PVP will not flourish as you pretend (or god help you, actually believe) will happen, and unless you're extremely deluded, you will know exactly why this will happen the way I say it will.
You scoff at my supply/demand "argument", but I'm telling you that overall, PVP supply in the form of people who gank or canflip etc will go down because the penalties, with these changes, will make it enough of a cockstab or cost enough over time to do so, that it will quite simply not be worth their time. Thus the supply will be going down, while the demand (i.e. hisec pubbies who have seen these changes and are all "yarr I'll put bounties on them" or "yarr I can't wait to buy/activate killrights!") will go up.
But, since CCP have made it quite clear that they want to eradicate as much hisec aggression as possible without actually disallowing hisec aggression in its entirety, I've decided to do my part to **** in their cheerios. But make no mistake, overall, I will be in the minority, a large portion of people doing hisec PVP currently are most likely going to do what CCP wants, i.e. stop doing things like canflipping or ganking industrials/freighters/etc, and hisec will have taken a giant leap towards hello kitty online. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Touval Lysander
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
347
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 23:31:00 -
[498] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Low-risk means low-value. Do the math. This argument placing a value on someone by your own perception of their value is just plain wrong. It's not math either. "Value" to a preferred playstyle in Eve is an intangible.
Value is whatever it is to the valuee, not the valuer.
Perhaps the pirate/ganker/whatever will now place some "value" on their decisions and (inevitable) destruction instead of just being a random ass.
And yet, in (hypocritical) agreeance, you can still be an ass, but doing so will have value. Would not a higher risk to the ganker/pirate increase their value?
Strange that.
I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.
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Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
817
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 23:32:00 -
[499] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Yes, we understood the strawman arguments for a while now. That's why so many are having fun with this tears collection thread. I see that you are in an NPC corporation. Not sure how I missed this earlier. I would imagine that your days of war-dec immunity will come to an end eventually. Then you will know the true nature of risk.
Yes, having 800sp old alts is always useful, you know a lot about it right?
Yes it's an alt
Yes he's low sp
Yes go kill it
Yes finally my alt will bring me some isk
And yes, you seem mad brb |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
817
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 23:36:00 -
[500] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:[... I'm telling you what will happen in the game as a whole.
Just stop reading here because you're either a CCP employee with information and data we're not aware of or you're omniscient.
Creating more opportunities, witch CCP just did with these changes, is completely opposed to your statements. I will be back on this thread in a couple months and man up to say I was wrong if this ever happens (less pvp as you pretend and high sec more safer as you pretend also) Will you be able to come back and do the same? brb |
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Lord Zim
1725
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Posted - 2012.10.14 23:49:00 -
[501] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Just stop reading here because you're either a CCP employee with information and data we're not aware of or you're omniscient. I'm neither, but it doesn't exactly take a genius to see what'll happen when the consequences for "stepping out of line" are increased as much as they are going to be.
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Creating more opportunities, witch CCP just did with these changes, is completely opposed to your statements. I will be back on this thread in a couple months and man up to say I was wrong if this ever happens (less pvp as you pretend and high sec more safer as you pretend also) Will you be able to come back and do the same? I'll have absolutely no problems coming back to this thread in 6 months' time and say "I told you so". There's absolutely no danger of me having to say "welp, I was wrong". Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Touval Lysander
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
348
|
Posted - 2012.10.14 23:54:00 -
[502] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote: I'll have absolutely no problems coming back to this thread in 6 months' time and say "I told you so". There's absolutely no danger of me having to say "welp, I was wrong".
To be soooo right, sooooo often without any doubt about anything you ever say.
I dream of being as smart as you.
I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.
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captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
107
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 00:17:00 -
[503] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:Lord Zim wrote: I'll have absolutely no problems coming back to this thread in 6 months' time and say "I told you so". There's absolutely no danger of me having to say "welp, I was wrong".
To be soooo right, sooooo often without any doubt about anything you ever say. I dream of being as smart as you.
Ladies and gentlemen, our resident expert's opinion on the matter. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
628
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 01:36:00 -
[504] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Just stop reading here because you're either a CCP employee with information and data we're not aware of or you're omniscient.
Creating more opportunities, witch CCP just did with these changes, is completely opposed to your statements. I will be back on this thread in a couple months and man up to say I was wrong if this ever happens (less pvp as you pretend and high sec more safer as you pretend also) Will you be able to come back and do the same? Carebears / hi-sec'ers don't attack when we're -10 flying in space now, what makes you think they are going to attack in the future? I am tempted to come back to the game just to see how bad this does become.
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
Grumpymunky
Super Monkey Tribe of Danger
655
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 01:55:00 -
[505] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Carebears / hi-sec'ers don't attack when we're -10 flying in space now, what makes you think they are going to attack in the future? I am tempted to come back to the game just to see how bad this does become. Those who have never lifted a finger against the evildoers of highsec will not change, but will expect a sudden influx of bounty-hunting heroes to do it for them now. Those who have been waiting the last 9 years for bounty-hunting to become a viable profession are looking at these changes wondering why they even bothered.
Post with your monkey.
CCP Gargant: Thread locked due to lack of pants. |
Touval Lysander
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
355
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 02:03:00 -
[506] - Quote
captain foivos wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:Lord Zim wrote: I'll have absolutely no problems coming back to this thread in 6 months' time and say "I told you so". There's absolutely no danger of me having to say "welp, I was wrong".
To be soooo right, sooooo often without any doubt about anything you ever say. I dream of being as smart as you. Ladies and gentlemen, our resident expert's opinion on the matter. Yes indeed. I am conceding that I am not as wise or as smart as you guys.
Now all we need is for the entire CCP team to realise they're not as smart as you guys and Eve will be "fixed". I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.
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captain foivos
State War Academy Caldari State
107
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 02:13:00 -
[507] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:Now all we need is for the entire CCP team to realise they're not as smart as you guys and Eve will be "fixed".
In all seriousness, that would be a godsend.
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Grumpymunky
Super Monkey Tribe of Danger
655
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 02:15:00 -
[508] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:Now all we need is for the entire CCP team to realise they're not as smart as you guys Incarna... Post with your monkey.
CCP Gargant: Thread locked due to lack of pants. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1589
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 02:30:00 -
[509] - Quote
Grumpymunky wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:Now all we need is for the entire CCP team to realise they're not as smart as you guys Incarna... Yeah, I think that's not gonna happen.
Instead all that happens is people are "caught" "exploiting". Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
845
|
Posted - 2012.10.15 03:08:00 -
[510] - Quote
Grumpymunky wrote:Those who have never lifted a finger against the evildoers of highsec will not change, but will expect a sudden influx of bounty-hunting heroes to do it for them now.
That's just not going to happen. The average member of the average highsec corporation won't engage anything unless he has 3-1 numerical superiority and the target is in a ship 2 hull sizes smaller than him. Just today I had a mixed battleship/BC fleet run away from our 4 assault frigates and a battlecruiser. That's the kind of thing we're dealing with here.
The only people in highsec who will go out and seek PVP are already doing it right now. This bounty system won't do anything to increase the quantity of PVP occurring in highsec and in fact it adds a significant disincentive to suicide ganking and lowsec PVP for casual players.
How many people who live in highsec but casually do lowsec roams are going to be discouraged from that by the possibility of someone randomly activating a killright on them without warning as they land on the perimeter gate in jita? I'm going to say plenty.
You're certainly right about people who actually want to be bounty hunters being disappointed, it's probably the least useful an iteration that any mechanic has ever seen. |
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