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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1077
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:09:00 -
[121] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:I don't have all that much to lose. At this point, it's either deathmatch in 0.0, or training for a barge. Other games do deathmatch better, but I'll consider your advice if I'm in the market for a monotony simulator. So getting killed because you shoot at someone in 0.0 is not an option. And getting killed because you shoot at someone in highsec is not an option. So..... Stop shooting someone. That is your destiny. As corrupted as that may first appear. I don't understand what you're getting at. Please elaborate. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Touval Lysander
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
332
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:14:00 -
[122] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote: It's almost like CCP want to drive down demand while simultaneously driving up supply.
And as you keep pointing out. CCP have never, ever, ever, ever taken supply/demand into consideration.
Here, I'll ask them for you. They'll tell me straight dude.
Wait one..... . . . .
Dear Mr. Lysander
CCP never does and never will consider supply and demand.
Never. Ever.
PS: Has Darth still got you blocked? Pity. He won't see our reply.
Kindest regards CCP CFO
..oo00oo..
I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.
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Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
130
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:18:00 -
[123] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:You're ignoring the fact that this is a massive deterrent against crime in highsec. Meaning that for people who already play highsec safely, now have it even safer. Congratulations, we're one step closer to Trammel, all because of you ******** highsec carebears.
This is very poorly thought out statement. The only ganker that would be impacted like this is the guy that only flies a single toon with no alts. For a player like that this will be a massive deterrent. But even he can get around this if he operates in a corp with like minded people. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
Touval Lysander
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
332
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:18:00 -
[124] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:I don't have all that much to lose. At this point, it's either deathmatch in 0.0, or training for a barge. Other games do deathmatch better, but I'll consider your advice if I'm in the market for a monotony simulator. So getting killed because you shoot at someone in 0.0 is not an option. And getting killed because you shoot at someone in highsec is not an option. So..... Stop shooting someone. That is your destiny. As corrupted as that may first appear. I don't understand what you're getting at. Please elaborate. Oh my.
So going out to 0.0 and PvP+¡ng is not an option. "deathmatch yaddy ya" - Correct?
You want to PvP in highsec (although you said you didn't/don't do much suicide ganking anyway) and you're worried that if you suicide gank - everybody can just like, you know - shoot at you?
Like they do in 0.0.
So you DO want PvP but only if people DON'T shoot at you?
I'm confused. I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1077
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Posted - 2012.10.12 03:33:00 -
[125] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:Oh my.
So going out to 0.0 and PvP+¡ng is not an option. "deathmatch yaddy ya" - Correct?
You want to PvP in highsec (although you said you didn't/don't do much suicide ganking anyway) and you're worried that if you suicide gank - everybody can just like, you know - shoot at you?
Like they do in 0.0.
So you DO want PvP but only if people DON'T shoot at you?
I'm confused. Correct. I did 0.0 pvp from 2004 until 2009, and I've had my fill of that style of gameplay. For me, there is nothing interesting or exciting about it. Yes, that is an opinion.
I do want to pvp in high-sec. I don't suicide-gank much, because nowadays I only do it as part of mercenary contracts. I used to gank a lot of haulers, but haven't been into that lately, probably due to not needing ISK all that much.
I am not against kill rights. I am not against them being transferable, so that a victim, no matter how guilty or innocent he is, can still pass them off to somebody else, so that new person can go after me and make his collection. I am against kill rights being a simple suspect flag toggle switch on the target.
You're trying to compare high-sec to null, in the sense that everyone is free game in null. Well, null doesn't have CONCORD. Null doesn't have faction police. Null doesn't have sentry guns. Null doesn't have a lack of GCC insurance.
When I commit a crime in high-sec, I get punished by losing my ship, losing my standings, and giving my victim a means for revenge. What the new kill rights system will do is eliminate almost all crime by non-disposable characters by making the penalty too severe.
I'm not against being shot. I'm not even against being the handicapped party in an unfair engagement. But being flagged to everyone for a whole month is absolutely absurd.
Collecting kill rights via an alt aside, are you really that thick to call me a coward for not being willing to fight every single player in the universe at the same time? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
130
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:33:00 -
[126] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:stoicfaux wrote:Lord Zim wrote: Step 1) gank someone Step 2) wait for the freighter pilot to open up the killright Step 3) reship into a velator or some other fuckoff cheap ship Step 4) activate killright with alt. Step 5) shoot self with alt.
Oh hey look no more killright what a lovely and awesome system this is.
In theory, selling killrights should help should help control that loophole. From the devblog. Quote: You can mark any of your kill rights as open and set a price on using it. This price can be any ISK value you want, including 0. There is a new bracket icon for open kill rights, so spotting players with an available kill right on them will be easy.
Kill rights are bought GÇ£on the spotGÇ¥ in space, i.e. if you select a player in space and that player has a kill right on him for sale, you can buy & activate (one action) it right then and there.
Set it high and nobody'll use the killright, set it low and I'll just shoot myself in a noob ship.
That is why you hold onto the kill right and do not put it up for sale until the target is in a no win situation. Then open up the kill right and let loose the dogs of war. But I am sure some will pop the kill rights up for sale right away. Of course bounty hunters might be looking for those kill rights at the same time. It could get interesting. Players will find lots of ways to use these in unexpected ways. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1077
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:38:00 -
[127] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:That is why you hold onto the kill right and do not put it up for sale until the target is in a no win situation. Then open up the kill right and let loose the dogs of war. But I am sure some will pop the kill rights up for sale right away. Of course bounty hunters might be looking for those kill rights at the same time. It could get interesting. Players will find lots of ways to use these in unexpected ways. Or I can just make it free and keep it going 23.75/7, 30 days straight. That person will never undock, or be forced to leave high-sec for a month. Prison, banishment, either one works to describe the intent. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1509
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:44:00 -
[128] - Quote
Has anybody brought up that low-sec aggression currently bestows kill rights?
Unless I'm mistaken the changes, as proposed, won't alter this.
That means you could find yourself a target in high-sec for acts of piracy in low-sec, where high-sec players insist they want the PVP to happen.
Yeah, that's sensible. High-sec players imposing justice for gameplay they want nothing to do with. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
130
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:48:00 -
[129] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:That is why you hold onto the kill right and do not put it up for sale until the target is in a no win situation. Then open up the kill right and let loose the dogs of war. But I am sure some will pop the kill rights up for sale right away. Of course bounty hunters might be looking for those kill rights at the same time. It could get interesting. Players will find lots of ways to use these in unexpected ways. Or I can just make it free and keep it going 23.75/7, 30 days straight. That person will never undock, or be forced to leave high-sec for a month. Prison, banishment, either one works to describe the intent.
That is an option as well operate in low sec for that month make them come to you. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
741
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:49:00 -
[130] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Has anybody brought up that low-sec aggression currently bestows kill rights? Pod kills generate kill rights in low-sec, not ship kills. The key is criminal flagging. Nothing Found |
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Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1509
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:51:00 -
[131] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Has anybody brought up that low-sec aggression currently bestows kill rights? Pod kills generate kill rights in low-sec, not ship kills. The key is criminal flagging. Good information. Thanks. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Taihbea
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
118
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:51:00 -
[132] - Quote
Noob pvpeers / griefer tears are best tears. Quit whining and come where real pvp is going on.
HTFU noobs |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
130
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:51:00 -
[133] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Has anybody brought up that low-sec aggression currently bestows kill rights? Unless I'm mistaken the changes, as proposed, won't alter this. That means you could find yourself a target in high-sec for acts of piracy in low-sec, where high-sec players insist they want the PVP to happen. Yeah, that's sensible. High-sec players imposing justice for gameplay they want nothing to do with.
Everybody is forgetting that kill rights are only generated if the target does not fire back. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1079
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:55:00 -
[134] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Has anybody brought up that low-sec aggression currently bestows kill rights? Unless I'm mistaken the changes, as proposed, won't alter this. That means you could find yourself a target in high-sec for acts of piracy in low-sec, where high-sec players insist they want the PVP to happen. Yeah, that's sensible. High-sec players imposing justice for gameplay they want nothing to do with. Everybody is forgetting that kill rights are only generated if the target does not fire back. That's not what "front-end" means. Read the blog. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Touval Lysander
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
332
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:55:00 -
[135] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Touval Lysander wrote:Oh my.
So going out to 0.0 and PvP+¡ng is not an option. "deathmatch yaddy ya" - Correct?
You want to PvP in highsec (although you said you didn't/don't do much suicide ganking anyway) and you're worried that if you suicide gank - everybody can just like, you know - shoot at you?
Like they do in 0.0.
So you DO want PvP but only if people DON'T shoot at you?
I'm confused. I'm not against being shot. I'm not even against being the handicapped party in an unfair engagement. But being flagged to everyone for a whole month is absolutely absurd. Collecting kill rights via an alt aside, are you really that thick to call me a coward for not being willing to fight every single player in the universe at the same time? I'm obviously reading it wrong. I thought once the killright had been "handled" the matter was ended - valid up to a month?
Never called you a coward but if you do have to fight "everybody" well, that would have been YOUR choice would it not?
For once, actions taken in highsec will need to be considered more carefully. Just blasting away without making sure the reward is worth it, is gonna be, you know... risky...
And for all the moaning and groaning, it is only highsec affected here. ALL other sectors are as good as immune to being a "good boy".
Those calling Eve for being cold and harsh (which it should be) make it sound like it only relates to the ability to suicide gank.
It's still gonna be cold. It's still gonna be dark. It's still gonna be harsh.
What changes is dickheads are going to have to think before they act. Where's the problem? I lost countless ships and millions of isk on gank attempts. I did not blame CCP, Concord or the miner. I blamed me for bothering. I made more money.......... mining.
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Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
743
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 03:56:00 -
[136] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Everybody is forgetting that kill rights are only generated if the target does not fire back. No, the penalties are front-loaded. As soon as you gain a criminal flag you grant kill rights. Nothing Found |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1079
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 04:00:00 -
[137] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:I'm obviously reading it wrong. I thought once the killright had been "handled" the matter was ended - valid up to a month?
Never called you a coward but if you do have to fight "everybody" well, that would have been YOUR choice would it not? The kill right is valid as long as it has not been exhausted. If it is activated but the perp doesn't die, it can be activated again. There's no limit on activations.
Touval Lysander wrote:What changes is dickheads are going to have to think before they act. Where's the problem? If you think that people who suicide-gank are "dickheads," then there's really not much I can discuss with you. I am starting to wonder whether or not you're one of those "he's bad in a game so he must be bad in real life as well" people. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1512
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 04:01:00 -
[138] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Everybody is forgetting that kill rights are only generated if the target does not fire back. No, the penalties are front-loaded. As soon as you gain a criminal flag you grant kill rights. That's what I was afriad of, then.
This is pretty terrible.
High-sec players have no business "dispensing justice" for PVP they want nothing to do with in low-sec.
Broken. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
5
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 04:05:00 -
[139] - Quote
From the devblog
The amount paid out from the bounty pool upon a kill is now based on the ISK loss inflicted on the target. This is similar to the system used in FW for calculating LP payout, i.e. finding a Total Loss value based on the value of items lost (plus some insurance calculation finagling). WeGÇÖre making this system a bit more robust and harder to manipulate, but weGÇÖre not telling you how ;)
And all I could think of was, "Thats ok CCP, some enterprising player will figure it out and think of a way to rort the system for billions in an effective demonstration that you're not as clever as you thought you were"
o7 |
Herr Hammer Draken
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
133
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 04:08:00 -
[140] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Everybody is forgetting that kill rights are only generated if the target does not fire back. No, the penalties are front-loaded. As soon as you gain a criminal flag you grant kill rights. That's what I was afriad of, then. This is pretty terrible. High-sec players have no business "dispensing justice" for PVP they want nothing to do with in low-sec.Broken.
As it is now a criminal aggression only gets you a 15 minute timer. It takes kill rights to get a 30 day timer.
Under the new system; Will any criminal act of aggression now open up a 30 day kill right? Or is CCP going to have different levels of Kill rights?
Some 15 minute timers and some 30 day timers? I suppose this is something not yet set in stone and subject to change. Herr Hammer Draken "The Amarr Prophet" |
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Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1514
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 04:11:00 -
[141] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Karl Hobb wrote:Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Everybody is forgetting that kill rights are only generated if the target does not fire back. No, the penalties are front-loaded. As soon as you gain a criminal flag you grant kill rights. That's what I was afriad of, then. This is pretty terrible. High-sec players have no business "dispensing justice" for PVP they want nothing to do with in low-sec.Broken. As it is now a criminal aggression only gets you a 15 minute timer. It takes kill rights to get a 30 day timer. Under the new system; Will any criminal act of aggression now open up a 30 day kill right? Or is CCP going to have different levels of Kill rights? Some 15 minute timers and some 30 day timers? I suppose this is something not yet set in stone and subject to change. Let's hope so.
This does not look like a conflict driver to me... He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Karl Hobb
Stellar Ore Refinery and Crematorium
743
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 04:14:00 -
[142] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Under the new system; Will any criminal act of aggression now open up a 30 day kill right? Or is CCP going to have different levels of Kill rights? ALL penalties are front-loaded under the new system. Criminal flags generate kill rights (E: and sec status loss) whether the action was sucessful or not. Nothing Found |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1082
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 04:15:00 -
[143] - Quote
Herr Hammer Draken wrote:Under the new system; Will any criminal act of aggression now open up a 30 day kill right? Yes, this is how they plan to implement it. The only way to change their minds is with a negative feedback campaign. They won't change their minds otherwise. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
594
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 04:16:00 -
[144] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:ISD Suvetar wrote:Or he could undock in a shuttle and get it done with ? Don't get me wrong, as a player I can see issues combining this with front loading kill rights and all that; but I don't think this particular part is as bad as you're saying. Again that's just my player opinion. I kind of agree with Surfin's; Piracy potential is *awesome* Edit: I should probably emphasize that these ideas are still ideas and subject to much balancing and testing. If you're this concerned then raise it in the comments thread. So the whole point of the new system is to self-claim your own kill rights with alts?
That was the whole point to the old system, you just found a way to work around it. [sic] From: Tommas De'Wins To: Cipher Jones Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1514
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 04:19:00 -
[145] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:ISD Suvetar wrote:Or he could undock in a shuttle and get it done with ? Don't get me wrong, as a player I can see issues combining this with front loading kill rights and all that; but I don't think this particular part is as bad as you're saying. Again that's just my player opinion. I kind of agree with Surfin's; Piracy potential is *awesome* Edit: I should probably emphasize that these ideas are still ideas and subject to much balancing and testing. If you're this concerned then raise it in the comments thread. So the whole point of the new system is to self-claim your own kill rights with alts? That was the whole point to the old system, you just found a way to work around it. [sic] So just like with the changes associated with the problem of exhumers plateauing at the Hulk, this set of changes results in the same problems existing after the change, only in a slightly different form?
On a roll. We've got another Mackinaw here. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
594
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 04:23:00 -
[146] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:ISD Suvetar wrote:Or he could undock in a shuttle and get it done with ? Don't get me wrong, as a player I can see issues combining this with front loading kill rights and all that; but I don't think this particular part is as bad as you're saying. Again that's just my player opinion. I kind of agree with Surfin's; Piracy potential is *awesome* Edit: I should probably emphasize that these ideas are still ideas and subject to much balancing and testing. If you're this concerned then raise it in the comments thread. So the whole point of the new system is to self-claim your own kill rights with alts? That was the whole point to the old system, you just found a way to work around it. [sic] So just like with the changes associated with the problem of exhumers plateauing at the Hulk, this set of changes results in the same problems existing after the change, only in a slightly different form? On a roll. We've got another Mackinaw here.
Now, here's a scenario that will be possible under the new system. You get one tackler on a guy with kill rights on him and he will LITERALLY be Mackinaw bait.
From: Tommas De'Wins To: Cipher Jones Dude :) I got massives Basi hahahahahahaha |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1514
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 04:25:00 -
[147] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Cipher Jones wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:ISD Suvetar wrote:Or he could undock in a shuttle and get it done with ? Don't get me wrong, as a player I can see issues combining this with front loading kill rights and all that; but I don't think this particular part is as bad as you're saying. Again that's just my player opinion. I kind of agree with Surfin's; Piracy potential is *awesome* Edit: I should probably emphasize that these ideas are still ideas and subject to much balancing and testing. If you're this concerned then raise it in the comments thread. So the whole point of the new system is to self-claim your own kill rights with alts? That was the whole point to the old system, you just found a way to work around it. [sic] So just like with the changes associated with the problem of exhumers plateauing at the Hulk, this set of changes results in the same problems existing after the change, only in a slightly different form? On a roll. We've got another Mackinaw here. Now, here's a scenario that will be possible under the new system. You get one tackler on a guy with kill rights on him and he will LITERALLY be Mackinaw bait. I've got to admit I laughed out loud. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Olleybear
I R' Carebear
124
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 04:34:00 -
[148] - Quote
Almost everything in the dev blog sounds good so far. The one thing that does raise an eyebrow however, is what others have brought up, and that is the Suspect Toggle.
Giving people more options on their kill rights is a good thing. A simple toggle so everyone can free fire on someone for 15 minutes? Not so sure about that one. Think we would need more information on what CCPs goal is for this particular mechanic. Perhaps its to encourage people to stay out in Low? Shrug. Dunno.
Good dev blog and looking forward to the rest of the changes. When it comes to PvP, I am like a chiwawa hanging from a grizzley bears pair of wrinklies for dear life. |
SegaPhoenix
Phoenix Pharmaceuticals
40
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 04:35:00 -
[149] - Quote
I dunno, the way I see it you could really bait a lot of people into trying to ownzone you. What if by chance you tried to keep a suspect flag up at all times to invite people to attack you, they bite, you kite/kill one at a time like lemmings until they either give up or die trying? Its like can baiting without the can really. Could complete backfire on those unprepared enough for an actual fight. Killmail whores be warned =P |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1514
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 04:40:00 -
[150] - Quote
SegaPhoenix wrote:I dunno, the way I see it you could really bait a lot of people into trying to ownzone you. What if by chance you tried to keep a suspect flag up at all times to invite people to attack you, they bite, you kite/kill one at a time like lemmings until they either give up or die trying? Its like can baiting without the can really. Could complete backfire on those unprepared enough for an actual fight. Killmail whores be warned =P Well I just hope that suspect flag doesn't go off in a rookie zone.
Talk about griefing! Shoot them and risk a ban or take their fire and risk a petition?
Or what about the low-sec front-loading? Letting high-sec players shoot low-sec players in high-sec just for their playstyle would be...the height of hypocrisy to be utterly blunt. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
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