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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1547
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Posted - 2012.10.12 09:55:00 -
[211] - Quote
Talon SilverHawk wrote:Its great and its not a surprise as you pirated, to long has there been no come back in hi sec, well now there is woot. The only lee way I personally would give is that 30 days is to long, but any length of penalty it should be tied to time in space not docked as ppl could wait it out. Tal Except it isn't. I'll always collect my own bounties, as will any decent pilot with a decent alt. And collect my own kill rights, too, thank you very much.
That catch-22 isn't great, it's terrible. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4886
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Posted - 2012.10.12 09:55:00 -
[212] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Malcanis wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:So, I was reading the dev blog, and I thought to myself: "wow, CCP is really intent on getting this bounty thing right." And then I got to the terribly-misapplied Princess Bride quote. My heart sank so low that I'm sure people will wonder what the red liquid is when they use the basement garage below my apartment. First of all, kill rights will now be created when aggression occurs. This means that even the day-old noobie who accidentally attacks a player thinking he's a training NPC or whatever is going to be fair game. But this in itself isn't the real problem, and could be lived with. No, the real gem is: CCP SoniClover wrote:This is changing from previous functionality. If you have a kill right against someone, you can activate that kill right to make your target a suspect (i.e. give him a Suspect Flag, as explained in the crimewatch blog). This allows anyone in the vicinity of the suspect to engage him legally. So, CCP, is this your idea of "bounty hunting" and "consequences?" Instead of a player being able to simply pass off the kill right to a more...confrontational...individual, we're just making a toggle that makes the perp fair game, anytime, anywhere, with no warning. I guess if bounty hunters go after their targets, and the targets turn out to be a bit more than they can handle, they invite random passerby on the action. I get this mental image of Boba Fett, after being knocked on his ass by a local hardman, yelling "well what you all standing 'round for, can't you see this guy means business?" while wiping the blood from under his helmet. The Cantina Band springs to action immediately, and the lovable munchkins clobber the perp with their adorable musical instruments. Then, they all have some cocoa and take a nap. Oookay. There must be an explanation for this. Maybe it's in the next couple of paragraphs? CCP SoniClover wrote:Kill rights are bought GÇ£on the spotGÇ¥ in space, i.e. if you select a player in space and that player has a kill right on him for sale, you can buy & activate (one action) it right then and there. This immediately puts a Suspect Flag on the target, thus allowing you and others in your vicinity to attack the target. If the target player is killed while under a Suspect flag, then the kill right is GÇÿspentGÇÖ. If the target manages to escape and the Suspect flag timer (15 minutes) lapses, the kill right is still available to be purchased (activated) later on. I'm speechless. I really don't know what to say. Firing on someone in high-sec, despite the outcome, will now result in what is essentially a 30-day free-for-all flag on the dirty scumbag. That is, it will result in a month-long prison sentence. Leave the prison, and anyone can shoot you, anywhere, with no warning. Not even a message or a short timer to get ready. Not even a break between collection attempts. They can't even exhaust a finite amount of attempts on the target. All they have to do is accept the kill right, and possibly pay a fee (and I don't imagine too many people will charge fees, considering what this system implies). So, there you have it. CCP is finally getting rid of the undesirables. There's no other explanation for it. It's impossible to justify this new set of rules as anything other than "we no longer consider suicide-ganking, or for that matter any type of unwanted aggression, an acceptable gameplay mechanic." That, or CCP really really wants people to roll more disposable Thrasher alts. Simmer down, buttercup. You seem to have forgotten that when the crimewatch changes go live, no one will be able to unknowngly transgress in this way. No Malcanis, but if I ransom a pod in low-sec, they pay, and I let them go I get a penalty as though I killed the pod. He gets kill rights. And if they're transferred I can be killed by surprise in high-sec at any time by everybody on-grid when it goes down, for up to 30 days. For honoring a ransom. That's broke dude.
Yeah, so? You've committed a crime of aggression and deprived the victim of wealth. Now he's allowed to shoot you back. So what? Why am I supposed to be upset about this? Because it's different from how it used to be?
Come to that, if you're ransoming a pod, you've almost certainly just killed his ship anyway.
You like PvP don't you? What's your problem with people coming back to take revenge on you? MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Lord Zim
1652
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Posted - 2012.10.12 09:57:00 -
[213] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:No Malcanis, but if I ransom a pod in low-sec, they pay, and I let them go I get a penalty as though I killed the pod.
He gets kill rights. Are you sure about this? I'd assume he'd get aggression, but not necessarily kill rights, since he hasn't actually killed the guy, just momentarily detained him. Front-loaded. He aggressed him. I was going to say that I didn't see how that would incur killrights, but then I saw the appropriate paragraph (which I'd somehow missed previously). You're right. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1547
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Posted - 2012.10.12 09:59:00 -
[214] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Yeah, so? You've committed a crime of aggression and deprived the victim of wealth. Now he's allowed to shoot you back. So what? Why am I supposed to be upset about this? Because it's different from how it used to be?
Come to that, if you're ransoming a pod, you've almost certainly just killed his ship anyway.
You like PvP don't you? What's your problem with people coming back to take revenge on you? I've been told a million times by people in high-sec to go to low-sec to PVP - they don't want it.
You tell me if you find this to be...ironic...or not. Players who want no part in PVP but to see it banished to low/null, suddenly become its keepers of honour TM in high-sec.
Makes no difference though. I'm a decent pilot and I'll collect my own bounties, no doubt. And my own kill rights, too, when they're up for sale. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Lord Zim
1652
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Posted - 2012.10.12 10:04:00 -
[215] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Yeah, so? You've committed a crime of aggression and deprived the victim of wealth. Now he's allowed to shoot you back. So what? Why am I supposed to be upset about this? Because it's different from how it used to be?
Come to that, if you're ransoming a pod, you've almost certainly just killed his ship anyway.
You like PvP don't you? What's your problem with people coming back to take revenge on you? The problem isn't that people can come back to take revenge on you, that's just as it is now. The problem is that what I thought CCP was going to do, and which I think most people thought CCP were going to do, is allow people to sell their killrights to people who spend their days as bountyhunters, and that's not what we're getting. What we're getting is that the owner of the killright can put it up for "sale" at, say, 0 isk, and anyone can then activate it and he's then suddenly killable by everyone.
So honestly, does this strike you as a great way to make bountyhunters a viable profession? Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4886
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Posted - 2012.10.12 10:07:00 -
[216] - Quote
ISD Suvetar wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: It's not a fight when you have a suspect flag. Let me know how many kills you get in Jita while being a suspect.
Are you saying that you lose every fight where you get shot first ?
Damb, son! That's gonna leave a mark...
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4886
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 10:08:00 -
[217] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Malcanis wrote:Yeah, so? You've committed a crime of aggression and deprived the victim of wealth. Now he's allowed to shoot you back. So what? Why am I supposed to be upset about this? Because it's different from how it used to be?
Come to that, if you're ransoming a pod, you've almost certainly just killed his ship anyway.
You like PvP don't you? What's your problem with people coming back to take revenge on you? The problem isn't that people can come back to take revenge on you, that's just as it is now. The problem is that what I thought CCP was going to do, and which I think most people thought CCP were going to do, is allow people to sell their killrights to people who spend their days as bountyhunters, and that's not what we're getting. What we're getting is that the owner of the killright can put it up for "sale" at, say, 0 isk, and anyone can then activate it and he's then suddenly killable by everyone. So honestly, does this strike you as a great way to make bountyhunters a viable profession? Also, don't forget that if someone does kill him and tries to profit off of it by scooping his modules, he in turn becomes killable by everyone because he's now a suspect.
Sounds like fun times, to be honest. Empire is going to be a slaughterhouse.
My advice is to buy minerals. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4886
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Posted - 2012.10.12 10:15:00 -
[218] - Quote
Hey is mittens going to do another occupy Jita event to mark this change? That would be keen! MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
7
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Posted - 2012.10.12 10:29:00 -
[219] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The only people who will have "more chance and options for PvP engagments" after these changes will be the newbies who accidentally cycle their guns on someone because they don't know any better.
Do you really think I will suicide-gank someone one day, and then undock a faction-fit Vindicator to "have some of them fun-funz peeveepees" with everyone in Jita the next? No, it simply won't work like that. You might think it's honorable for a pvper to go around seeking 1vs200 engagements, but we think it's stupid.
Aye.
But I don't see this changes as direct against or affecting to much suicide ganking, if the wanted to totally get rid of suicide ganking they had only to buff again some ships tanks, cheapper than implementing a whole set of game mechanics.
This change to me seems more affecting "low rank" high-sec piracy (can flipping, stealing, ninja looting and so on), is there that will create more pvp opportunities. I don't see how giving to people more opportunities to shoot equals to "safeer"
Suicide ganking is different: it requires some effort, skills, coordination, sacrificing ships and has already a risks/benefits challange in it. But, as stated: is done mostly using alts, is easy to get rid of the kill rights and so on, so will not be cleared by this changes.
About this I think if this new system works the next step should be to lower the Concord reaction times, to balance.
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Pipa Porto
1191
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Posted - 2012.10.12 10:31:00 -
[220] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Malcanis wrote:Yeah, so? You've committed a crime of aggression and deprived the victim of wealth. Now he's allowed to shoot you back. So what? Why am I supposed to be upset about this? Because it's different from how it used to be?
Come to that, if you're ransoming a pod, you've almost certainly just killed his ship anyway.
You like PvP don't you? What's your problem with people coming back to take revenge on you? The problem isn't that people can come back to take revenge on you, that's just as it is now. The problem is that what I thought CCP was going to do, and which I think most people thought CCP were going to do, is allow people to sell their killrights to people who spend their days as bountyhunters, and that's not what we're getting. What we're getting is that the owner of the killright can put it up for "sale" at, say, 0 isk, and anyone can then activate it and he's then suddenly killable by everyone. So honestly, does this strike you as a great way to make bountyhunters a viable profession? Also, don't forget that if someone does kill him and tries to profit off of it by scooping his modules, he in turn becomes killable by everyone because he's now a suspect.
You forgot that clever little line Masterplan slipped in where if you were legally allowed to shoot someone, you're legally allowed to loot their can. EvE: Everyone vs Everyone
-RubyPorto |
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Shederov Blood
Wrecketeers
15
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Posted - 2012.10.12 10:33:00 -
[221] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:The only people who will have "more chance and options for PvP engagments" after these changes will be the newbies who accidentally cycle their guns on someone because they don't know any better. Don't forget, those newbies will probably have new "green-level safeties" on by default, and won't even be capable of gaining a suspect flag until they disable it.
Edit: Unless of course you go flying through the starter systems waving your suspect flag in their faces. How could I forget about that. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1103
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Posted - 2012.10.12 10:37:00 -
[222] - Quote
Shederov Blood wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:The only people who will have "more chance and options for PvP engagments" after these changes will be the newbies who accidentally cycle their guns on someone because they don't know any better. Don't forget, those newbies will probably have new "green-level safeties" on by default, and won't even be capable of gaining a suspect flag until they disable it. Edit: Unless of course you go flying through the starter systems waving your suspect flag in their faces. How could I forget about that. I might not be the gold standard, but I have a silver tongue. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
254
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Posted - 2012.10.12 10:49:00 -
[223] - Quote
Andski wrote:I mean let's face it, CCP's vision of hisec is that of a risk-free pseudo-themepark where things like 'thought' are optional. All PvP is restricted to wardecs (which are heavily nerfed), risk-free suspect hunting and RvB. By "hisec should be fairly safe" that means that you should be perfectly safe autopiloting your freighter with 50b of loot or your officer-fit Nightmare through Jita.
They believe that by restricting PvP even more, subscriptions will magically skyrocket and EVE will enter a golden age. We'll see about that (it won't)
qft |
dethleffs
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
101
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Posted - 2012.10.12 11:12:00 -
[224] - Quote
Why are you people so afraid of everything? |
Lord Zim
1655
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Posted - 2012.10.12 11:14:00 -
[225] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Sounds like fun times, to be honest. Empire is going to be a slaughterhouse.
My advice is to buy minerals. So you're thinking these changes will actually be beneficial to bounty hunters?
If so, then I guess this is one of the first times we've actually disagreed about a change. There's always a first for everything, I guess. vOv Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1105
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Posted - 2012.10.12 11:17:00 -
[226] - Quote
dethleffs wrote:Why are you people so afraid of everything? The only thing I fear is a game I love turning into veritable detritus. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Naburi NasNaburi
in Retiarii Trifectas Syndicate
125
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Posted - 2012.10.12 11:32:00 -
[227] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: Firing on someone in high-sec, despite the outcome, will now result in what is essentially a 30-day free-for-all flag on the dirty scumbag. .
From what I have read.. you buy killrights for 15minutes... ? |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1105
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 11:34:00 -
[228] - Quote
Naburi NasNaburi wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: Firing on someone in high-sec, despite the outcome, will now result in what is essentially a 30-day free-for-all flag on the dirty scumbag. .
From what I have read.. you buy killrights for 15minutes... ? But you can buy them as many times as you want until a kill is actually made. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
159
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 11:36:00 -
[229] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Naburi NasNaburi wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote: Firing on someone in high-sec, despite the outcome, will now result in what is essentially a 30-day free-for-all flag on the dirty scumbag. .
From what I have read.. you buy killrights for 15minutes... ? But you can buy them as many times as you want until a kill is actually made.
There you have a new buissnes model and Scam opportunity
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Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
337
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Posted - 2012.10.12 11:41:00 -
[230] - Quote
I would like to tip my hat to CCP. A change that already brings so many tears from the 'HiSec is not ment to be safe HTFU' Ganker crowd. Well Played.
To the OP, who seems to think that being instantly agroable by other people with no warning, is worthy of complaining on the forums.... Hello, Isnt that suicide ganking?
No acting so tough now - Im so cool i post things like this.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1107
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Posted - 2012.10.12 11:47:00 -
[231] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:I would like to tip my hat to CCP. A change that already brings so many tears from the 'HiSec is not ment to be safe HTFU' Ganker crowd. Well Played. To the OP, who seems to think that being instantly agroable by other people with no warning, is worthy of complaining on the forums.... Hello, Isnt that suicide ganking? No acting so tough now - Im so cool i post things like this. You seem to be under the misconception that just because I view a change as nonsensical and inherently bad for the game, I won't use it to completely ruin the EVE experience of another couple hundred players via completely legitimate, sanctioned game mechanics.
And to answer your question, no, it's nothing like suicide ganking. If the kill right activator immediately loses his ship to CONCORD the second he activates the kill right, then it might be like suicide-ganking. If the kill right activator is the only one able to act on the kill right after activating it, then it might be like suicide-ganking. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
160
|
Posted - 2012.10.12 11:47:00 -
[232] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:I would like to tip my hat to CCP. A change that already brings so many tears from the 'HiSec is not ment to be safe HTFU' Ganker crowd. Well Played. To the OP, who seems to think that being instantly agroable by other people with no warning, is worthy of complaining on the forums.... Hello, Isnt that suicide ganking? No acting so tough now - Im so cool i post things like this. you clearly have no idea at all about what you are talking |
Lord Zim
1655
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Posted - 2012.10.12 11:54:00 -
[233] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:To the OP, who seems to think that being instantly agroable by other people with no warning, is worthy of complaining on the forums.... Hello, Isnt that suicide ganking? Actually, it's the hope of being a full-time bountyhunter going up in smoke. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1109
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Posted - 2012.10.12 12:16:00 -
[234] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Jint Hikaru wrote:To the OP, who seems to think that being instantly agroable by other people with no warning, is worthy of complaining on the forums.... Hello, Isnt that suicide ganking? Actually, it's the hope of being a full-time bountyhunter going up in smoke. This, especially this. We've been waiting for transferable kill rights for so long, and CCP decides to slap us in the face with an Oprah approach to bounty-hunting. Apparently they want everyone to be a bounty-hunter. Must look good on their promotional materials.
Bounty-hunters have risk. Bounty-hunters do work for money, not pay money for work. Bounty-hunters don't want random people interfering in their work. Apparently CCP passed right over those concepts and went straight for making it as close to a pve experience as possible. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
962
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Posted - 2012.10.12 12:19:00 -
[235] - Quote
Touval Lysander wrote:And Mr. errr... Kesh. Yeah, my name sucks, I know. Naturally when I call for having the ability to do name changes I have an ulterior motive there.
Touval Lysander wrote:Bite me. Lots of things I dont know, and if you were honest you'd cough for same. Of course, but I don't habitually make statements about things that are false. http://themittani.com/features/local-problem A simple fix to the local intel problem |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
1788
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Posted - 2012.10.12 12:45:00 -
[236] - Quote
You are a criminal...you are now being treated as such. Quit whining. Bounty hunting will now be fun. Good job CCP. The vast majority of us will love every bit of it. Unfortunately there will be a few like those in this thread who don't like being held accountable for their criminal actions. But meh...who cares? They are criminals anyway. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1109
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Posted - 2012.10.12 12:56:00 -
[237] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:You are a criminal...you are now being treated as such. Quit whining. Bounty hunting will now be fun. Good job CCP. The vast majority of us will love every bit of it. Unfortunately there will be a few like those in this thread who don't like being held accountable for their criminal actions. But meh...who cares? They are criminals anyway. So, how do you plan on collecting these bounties? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Lord Zim
1658
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Posted - 2012.10.12 12:57:00 -
[238] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Bounty hunting will now be fun. It won't.
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:The vast majority of us will love every bit of it. Nope.
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Unfortunately there will be a few like those in this thread who don't like being held accountable for their criminal actions. And those who would like to see bountyhunters actually be bountyhunters. Something which these changes will not promote.
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:But meh...who cares? They are criminals anyway. Arguing that being a bounty hunter should be done properly is being a criminal?
The more you know. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1110
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Posted - 2012.10.12 13:08:00 -
[239] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:Bounty hunting will now be fun. It won't. Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:The vast majority of us will love every bit of it. Nope.The more you know. Let them. Just let them. They really have no idea what's coming their way at this point. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Shederov Blood
Wrecketeers
19
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Posted - 2012.10.12 13:10:00 -
[240] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:You are a criminal...you are now being treated as such. Quit whining. Bounty hunting will now be fun. Good job CCP. The vast majority of us will love every bit of it. Unfortunately there will be a few like those in this thread who don't like being held accountable for their criminal actions. But meh...who cares? They are criminals anyway. So, how do you plan on collecting these bounties? By pointing my gank alts every 15 minutes until I find a target for them, so I get paid for CONCORD's hard work. |
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