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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Lord Helghast
Intergalactic Syndicate Nulli Secunda
33
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Posted - 2011.10.01 01:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was watching http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgXp0S0-wPA&feature=youtu.be
where Veritas demonstrated his god like CCP power with litterally Pausing eve at one point and setting dilation to 100% ... This got me thinking.....
If you can actually pause eve now for a system... Can't you theoretically use that time if the dilation gets to that point to remap the node to a reinforced node.
Not saying it would be easy as i know its been mentioned before, but it just seems since it would be the next logical step after Time Dilation.... |
Lord Helghast
Intergalactic Syndicate Nulli Secunda
33
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Posted - 2011.10.01 01:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
btw the slow mo look at the macharial at the end was f*cking HOT... though the slow mo titan explosion makes u wonder wtf things are exploding in mid space instead of internally to the titan
Also the cyno seems to fly off to a spot in space and disappear when its gone but its so fast in non TiDi that you dont see it normally? :( Hope they change that to make it more visible ... as that **** is HOT |
Brooks Puuntai
Nomadic Asylum
115
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Posted - 2011.10.01 06:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
The more I see this TiDi the more I love it. |
Jokerface666
Ever Flow Northern Coalition.
24
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Posted - 2011.10.01 11:02:00 -
[4] - Quote
looks awesome, and no moar QUADRUPPLE KLICK MODS TO FIRE!
also new cyno efect looks hawt like a modern version of the old one. ------------------------------w00t w00t rapetrain------------------------------ |
Kagan Storm
0
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Posted - 2011.10.01 11:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
Is it just me or is this scenario possible Somebody test it and feal free to give me the credit :)
Super loogs in. You catch it. It loogs off agreesed.... you dialate time by ungrooping everithing and launching all drones....t ime goes slower for system X lets say 1 sec real time equals 0.5 seconds in game
=========
Now you have 30 min to get reinforsments to kill that super??????????????????
From what i understand everybody in system slows down. Please confirm. Offering small loans. Send message for details and arrangements. :)
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Phantom Slave
Cryogenic Creations
3
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Posted - 2011.10.01 15:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kagan Storm wrote:Is it just me or is this scenario possible Somebody test it and feal free to give me the credit :) Super loogs in. You catch it. It loogs off agreesed.... you dialate time by ungrooping everithing and launching all drones....t ime goes slower for system X lets say 1 sec real time equals 0.5 seconds in game ========= Now you have 30 min to get reinforsments to kill that super?????????????????? From what i understand everybody in system slows down. Please confirm. And usual reason you dont kil la super is cause reinforsments are slow and you dont have enough DPS
Pretty sure that it'd take a few hundred people all with ungrouped mods to even affect the dilation of that node at all, probably closer to nothing, and if there's 300+ people in the system attacking a logofski super I don't think you'll need 30 minutes in the first place. |
Nova Orion
Syndicated Systems ROMANIAN-LEGION
0
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Posted - 2011.10.01 15:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Phantom Slave wrote:Kagan Storm wrote:Is it just me or is this scenario possible Somebody test it and feal free to give me the credit :) Super loogs in. You catch it. It loogs off agreesed.... you dialate time by ungrooping everithing and launching all drones....t ime goes slower for system X lets say 1 sec real time equals 0.5 seconds in game ========= Now you have 30 min to get reinforsments to kill that super?????????????????? From what i understand everybody in system slows down. Please confirm. And usual reason you dont kil la super is cause reinforsments are slow and you dont have enough DPS Pretty sure that it'd take a few hundred people all with ungrouped mods to even affect the dilation of that node at all, probably closer to nothing, and if there's 300+ people in the system attacking a logofski super I don't think you'll need 30 minutes in the first place.
He does have a valid point though, it will start depending on ppl finding out how to overload the node, like taking drone boats, bringing a lot of warriors for instance, and just launch and abandon. At some point someone will find a way to do that, and they will have a huge advantage when it comes to reinforcements.
Also you can look at it otherwise as well, let's say you field 300v300. Normally the fight would be over before 100s more would come. But now you have maybe 10 times as much time to make it in time (with TiDi 10%) which will further increase the lag. I do believe TiDi can fix a lot of issues, I just hope CCP thinks of everything before enrolling it =)
/Nova |
Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
95
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Posted - 2011.10.01 18:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lord Helghast wrote:If you can actually pause eve now for a system... Can't you theoretically use that time if the dilation gets to that point to remap the node to a reinforced node.
You'd have to forcibly disconnect and reconnect the clients to pull that off, which is...pretty impossible. Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY SWORD |
Sleekman
The Inf1dels
0
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Posted - 2011.10.01 19:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
From inside the masstest, it looks like time dilation may affect more than just the system. It may be node wide. This would help, as reinforcements would take longer to arrive if they have to come through the node.
However, sets up whole other problems (figuring out the node and exploiting an edge)
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
15
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Posted - 2011.10.01 21:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hey, just a few comments from my side:
Using TiDi to pause to system to make it easier to remap it: This was already discussed internally and sounds like a good plan, BUT a lot of other stuff has to happen first. One step for better remaps will be probably done in one of the next mass-tests, where we'll test a fix to make the remapping system more stable.
Abusing TiDi to prolong aggression timers: As far as I can tell this *might* be possible, but if you already have the numbers to be able to lag out the system as much, then you should also have the numbers to kill the super-capital without having to extend the timer. I know that this is not always the case, but this is another discussion...
TiDi affects all system on one node (at least in the current implementation). Neighboring systems have a higher chance of being on the same node, but there is no guarantee. CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance - Team Gridlock Mass-tests | Writing bugreports | Singularity |
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Andreus Ixiris
Mixed Metaphor
22
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Posted - 2011.10.01 21:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Forgive me if this is a really dumb question that's been asked before, but I don't know anything but the barebones basics about how the node system works. What are the chances of me, a chronic hi-sec dweller, suddenly getting TiDied because of a battle taking place 80 jumps away in zerospace? Would this ever happen, or does the node system simply not work that way? Andreus Anthony LeHane Ixiris CEO, Mixed Metaphor Media Consultant, Voyeur Studios |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
37
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Posted - 2011.10.01 21:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Forgive me if this is a really dumb question that's been asked before, but I don't know anything but the barebones basics about how the node system works. What are the chances of me, a chronic hi-sec dweller, suddenly getting TiDied because of a battle taking place 80 jumps away in zerospace? Would this ever happen, or does the node system simply not work that way?
O.O/ Low sec/ High- sec/ WH systems are only cross populated in very rare cases A CCP Dev will chime in here in a minute and say Company policy is that the four differant zones are never mixed when deligating which node runs which systems |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
76
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Posted - 2011.10.01 21:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
I think you should turn off dilation for highsec systems.
Otherwise you just know that sooner or later we'll be there dilating the **** out of high-density mining nodes for fun. |
Xynthiar
101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
3
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Posted - 2011.10.01 22:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zirse wrote:I think you should turn off dilation for highsec systems. Otherwise you just know that sooner or later we'll be there dilating the **** out of high-density mining nodes for fun. You/Your alliance is willing to keep 200 pilots in a system shooting at asteroids just to slow down a system for the duration of the shooting? =/ |
Zirse
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
76
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Posted - 2011.10.01 22:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
Quite so.
It would have to at least be 1.5x more fun that a POS shots. |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
15
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Posted - 2011.10.01 22:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris: It is very seldom, that high-sec and 0.0 systems are on the same node (but it can happen), as Salpun already wrote. On the other hand it happens quite often, that high-sec and low-sec systems are on the same node.
Zirse wrote:I think you should turn off dilation for highsec systems. Otherwise you just know that sooner or later we'll be there dilating the **** out of high-density mining nodes for fun.
I think it would be bad to turn off dilation for high-sec - it is also better for high-sec to be dilated than to be totally lagged out. CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance - Team Gridlock Mass-tests | Writing bugreports | Singularity |
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Kagan Storm
0
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Posted - 2011.10.01 22:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote:Hey, just a few comments from my side:
Using TiDi to pause to system to make it easier to remap it: This was already discussed internally and sounds like a good plan, BUT a lot of other stuff has to happen first. One step for better remaps will be probably done in one of the next mass-tests, where we'll test a fix to make the remapping system more stable.
I support your plan.... Its a great idea to slow time if to many people so those closer to server or top noch connection have an edge BUT...
CCP Habakuk wrote:Hey, just a few comments from my side: Abusing TiDi to prolong aggression timers: As far as I can tell this *might* be possible, but if you already have the numbers to be able to lag out the system as much, then you should also have the numbers to kill the super-capital without having to extend the timer. I know that this is not always the case, but this is another discussion...
I do not agree with you there. Im probably not the 1st person to have this idea and im quite sure some alliance leader will order mass laging tests to see what is exsactly needed to lag a system.
On other constructiv uses of this:
1. Besides getting more people in to kill tee super cap 2. Having MORE time to spring a trap, anchor bubbles.. especialy drag bubbles so you have enemy fleat pointed in 1 spot while you deploy all around 3. Getting cyno alts in position for whatever you need them. 4. Maybe the stupidest use but still a use..... PROLONGING stront timers on poses and stations.
When you get actual numbers how much abuse is needed to slow down time to 50%, Go on Dotland and find out how many alliances have the actual "accountpower" to do that.
In eve 95% of things is a matter of seconds. I ususaly survive entanglements cause im pointed and aligned to something nad when enemy feat jumps trough i have that 1 second extra to warp away... whiles they lag a few sec since 200 of them jumped trough 1 gate.... Trying to overwhelm 1 person.... Score for the small guy Just for Stupid info:
It all works fine in theory but eve is not a thinking game..... Its like I and my enemy are running. And my enemy throws a brick in my face. I pick up my phone..... call somebody who throws rocks in his path so he cannot run fast any more.... till i recooperate and have time to catch up to him. Cause thats what TD does... lets people who loose cause lag to catch up to other people who are winning.
I am sorry to report this but time dilation has a logical error. It assumes nobody new enters the system or affects that system, region or the activity that caused time to slow down in any way
Think out side of the sandbox.... Thats how people win.... Offering small loans. Send message for details and arrangements. :)
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
15
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Posted - 2011.10.01 23:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
It is totally clear, that some alliances will try to (ab-)use Time Dilation for their purposes and sure - in some cases they will succeed to do so. BUT: most cases are also somehow possible with the current system by lagging out a system, just not as predictable.
We will for sure keep a very close eye on this and react to any problems. If anybody has any other ideas on how alliances might try to abuse it, but doesn't want to write it into this thread: feel free to send me mails about it (to this character either on TQ or Sisi).
Kagan Storm wrote: 4. Maybe the stupidest use but still a use..... PROLONGING stront timers on poses and stations.
Reinforcement timers are NOT being affected by time dilation. CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance - Team Gridlock Mass-tests | Writing bugreports | Singularity |
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Mikel Laurentson
Laurentson INC
1
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Posted - 2011.10.01 23:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
I wonder what the implications would be for the age old "dump a freighterload of shuttles and smartbomb them to crash Jita" trick.
Presumably it would just cause that one second of smartbombing to last a while, possibly a long while, then return things to normal with no major disruption. |
Kagan Storm
0
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Posted - 2011.10.02 00:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
CCP Habakuk wrote: Reinforcement timers are NOT being affected by time dilation.
I dont like it... im sure ill figure out some abuse for this in a few hours will get back to this....
Mikel Laurentson wrote:I wonder what the implications would be for the age old "dump a freighterload of shuttles and smartbomb them to crash Jita" trick.
Presumably it would just cause that one second of smartbombing to last a while, possibly a long while, then return things to normal with no major disruption.
Sorry i only focused on 0.0
For highsec
1. ) increase in suicide ganking
Little explanation biggest problem you have with scanning somebody is the time to move you mouse. people will be able to aquier targets easily (not 100 % acure needs to be tested)
2.) increase in cost to transport cause freighter currently needs 4 min to leave jita or something like that with the assumes 0.5/1 second change it will take him 8 minutes..... More freighters cause of lucrative market... easier to cause lag.
3. Dont even wanna theorize on bonus time for deployment of interceptors to decloak person on gate..... currently only reason you cant do that is cause you have 5 seconds to decloak a hauler.... with 10 seconds you can do something...
All in all i have a fealing "slower in perception on time to react to stuff" people are getting a boost witch is ok.....
But seriously.... cant you just invest time in adding nodes?
Im also worried about less interesting things.... like mission running and mining.... money making that is directly keyed to REAL time.
Workable theory here: Theory 1.) I mine. Mining yeald/circle time X 3600 = my profit of mining /hour..... if you slow down time... i acttualy make less money. No problem im in highsec my differences is about 1 mill /hour.
Theory 2.) Im mining in an ops in 0.0 OOPS..... instead of making 60-70 mill per hour im now down to 30 if system slows down cause 10 of us are using mining drones and all and we have 30 more people dooing stuff and in the procces fleat starts to form for a cta or something...
Time dilation if abused effects everything in game.... mining, missionruning, transport, Killing each other.....
"the system" had 10 years to evolve and all the ship changes, align times travel speed, ability to run form other people.... its all messured in seconds. You are ading a new number to math thats been evolving for 10 years.
P.S. Dont make me count the number of drakes in that video .... on rough glanc it looks like 70 or so to me.... realy not that complicated to organize people....
P.P.S: i support the idea it will make the game less lagi, smoother, nicer, less a pain, less DCs in fights.... but the outside factors are worrying me..... Offering small loans. Send message for details and arrangements. :)
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Sleekman
The Inf1dels
0
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Posted - 2011.10.02 01:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
It's not going to dilate with 10 people, you have to reach the point where the server starts to lag before it even thinks about using it, and then it goes up in stages.
Assuming you could lag the system even slightly, it's only going to dilate a fraction before coming back to normal. |
GeeShizzle MacCloud
5
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Posted - 2011.10.02 03:11:00 -
[22] - Quote
lol some of the excuses for 'problems' on here are soo absurd! but i like reading them anyhow!
a lot of people seem to be forgetting that because a system might go into TiDi, doesnt mean every1 BUT you will go slow. you will too. and also places like jita have been purring along at 60%ish server usage for a little while now.. and with optimisation after optimisation thats slowly diminishing. you'd have to do a lot to lag it out... and a HELL of a lot to lag it out in order to really make use of scanners to scan out targets u might not have had the time to consider.
BUUUUT even then u have to contend with the fact locking and scannings gonna take a lot longer, ten every action u want to do after that will take longer still, by that time ur targets just about warped off.
TiDi i believe was initially conceived as a way to make the combat mechanics of eve fair to all on the node, whether uve loaded grid already or not. there were many instances where fights in say 020 and similar, a massive pre-emptive force would get into system early and lag the system out whenever they got word of any possible hostiles jumping in. Most of the time this meant the ones already on grid had a free turkey shoot, killing people desyncing and trying to load grid.
it ment that if ur taking sov.. u get there early, u lock the system down and if anything moderately expensive jumps in, its dead b4 it even knows about it. now it seems that the general consensus is that its an abuse of the limitations of the servers. so someone suggested slowing time so that the servers can process ALL requests when theyre made, instead of what we currently have of prioritising combat over grid loading. |
Lord Helghast
Intergalactic Syndicate Nulli Secunda
34
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Posted - 2011.10.02 03:14:00 -
[23] - Quote
Phantom Slave wrote:Kagan Storm wrote:Is it just me or is this scenario possible Somebody test it and feal free to give me the credit :) Super loogs in. You catch it. It loogs off agreesed.... you dialate time by ungrooping everithing and launching all drones....t ime goes slower for system X lets say 1 sec real time equals 0.5 seconds in game ========= Now you have 30 min to get reinforsments to kill that super?????????????????? From what i understand everybody in system slows down. Please confirm. And usual reason you dont kil la super is cause reinforsments are slow and you dont have enough DPS Pretty sure that it'd take a few hundred people all with ungrouped mods to even affect the dilation of that node at all, probably closer to nothing, and if there's 300+ people in the system attacking a logofski super I don't think you'll need 30 minutes in the first place.
Not to mention its been pretty well pointed out that the titan/supercarrier logoffski trick is more exploit than real tactic, hence why they have said that titans etc might get an EHP nerf as its rediculous that a titan can just log off at start of battle and those 150 battleships cant kill him cause of a stupid ewarp...
also TIDI to hit 50% requires a LOT of load, and if theres that much load the titan was going down anyway...
TiDi isn't for systems with 50 guys with drones out, its for 500v500 battles and things where the server is truely crushed
Oh no now Supers aren't LogOffsky invulnerable during 1200 player battles poor babies...
What will those alpha fleets do now that only really worked due to lag making alpha the only thing that worked and 0 tactics needed.... wow tactics who would have thought |
Lord Helghast
Intergalactic Syndicate Nulli Secunda
34
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Posted - 2011.10.02 03:19:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nova Orion wrote: He does have a valid point though, it will start depending on ppl finding out how to overload the node, like taking drone boats, bringing a lot of warriors for instance, and just launch and abandon. At some point someone will find a way to do that, and they will have a huge advantage when it comes to reinforcements.
Also you can look at it otherwise as well, let's say you field 300v300. Normally the fight would be over before 100s more would come. But now you have maybe 10 times as much time to make it in time (with TiDi 10%) which will further increase the lag. I do believe TiDi can fix a lot of issues, I just hope CCP thinks of everything before enrolling it =)
/Nova
you do realize that 300v300 currently dont lag most nodes right?
and if a 300+v300+ fleet fight is going on and does hit TiDi say 50%... it gives both sides the same advantage of being able to call for reinforcements, unlike is now where 1 side gets advantage... TiDi is BALANCE to massive battles |
Messoroz
AQUILA INC
19
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Posted - 2011.10.02 20:43:00 -
[25] - Quote
How do you prevent Time diliation from activating when it shouldn't....i.e. Jita LOL |
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CCP Habakuk
C C P C C P Alliance
15
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Posted - 2011.10.02 21:23:00 -
[26] - Quote
Messoroz wrote:How do you prevent Time diliation from activating when it shouldn't....i.e. Jita LOL
We can (manually) exclude nodes from Time Dilation, if necessary - for example if a bug causes a huge CPU spike.
For Jita: If Jita gets overloaded because of anybody shooting the statue or some kind of warfare action then Jita should be dilated like any other system. If Jita gets lagged out mostly because of market and inventory transactions then we might need to disable Time Dilation for this node, as these actions are not dilated anyway and the system could be running at 10% speed, while the market is still running at full speed and lagging everything out. This said: Jita is currently in pretty good shape and far from reaching 100% CPU. CCP Habakuk | EVE Quality Assurance - Team Gridlock Mass-tests | Writing bugreports | Singularity |
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