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S'Daria
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Posted - 2005.03.21 22:56:00 -
[1]
Edited by: S''Daria on 25/03/2005 11:54:05 moved...
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Faster ThanJesus
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Posted - 2005.03.22 00:02:00 -
[2]
by rewards, do you refer to just the agent reward/bonus, or does that include bounties/loot as well?
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2005.03.22 01:13:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Faster ThanJesus by rewards, do you refer to just the agent reward/bonus, or does that include bounties/loot as well?
I would assume that is only the rewards, lp and bonus's. You cant slice the bounties that way, as you get missions that bring you to systems both higher and lower than the agents system. Beside a NPC with the same stats cant be worth any more in one part of space than the other when it just as "dangerous" both places.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Obodi
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Posted - 2005.03.22 02:16:00 -
[4]
One other intersting thing about the balance: During yesterday's outage, I did "The Guristas Spies" mission on the test server, and noticed an important difference. On Tranquility, this mission has one BS, 3 spies, and a number of support craft of various types. On the test server, I counted 6 BS, 3 of which went aggro on my poor ferox after I fired on the first ship.
Interesting times ahead. I like doing missions, and enjoy the tough spawns and good rewards. However, I do also agree that there needs to be more incentive to go out into 0.0, and there needs to be much more infrastructure out there that make extended stay in 0.0 much more feasible.
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2005.03.22 03:17:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Obodi One other intersting thing about the balance: During yesterday's outage, I did "The Guristas Spies" mission on the test server, and noticed an important difference. On Tranquility, this mission has one BS, 3 spies, and a number of support craft of various types. On the test server, I counted 6 BS, 3 of which went aggro on my poor ferox after I fired on the first ship.
Well, you already got spawn locations with 10 inters and 3 bs's. Beefing up the spawns with more npc's -> more bounties -> higher rewards from bounties. Won't make it all that much better, you end up being 2 doing the missions together rather than solo.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2005.03.22 04:58:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico
Originally by: Faster ThanJesus by rewards, do you refer to just the agent reward/bonus, or does that include bounties/loot as well?
I would assume that is only the rewards, lp and bonus's. You cant slice the bounties that way, as you get missions that bring you to systems both higher and lower than the agents system. Beside a NPC with the same stats cant be worth any more in one part of space than the other when it just as "dangerous" both places.
I believe you're wrong about that, a given bounty NPC drops better loot the lower the sec rating of the system. This applies to 0.0 sec systems as well, there're a few systems that are -1 sec and thus have the best loot tables.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2005.03.22 05:01:00 -
[7]
NOTE: I'm only talking about the mission LP, Reward and Bonus Rewards...I haven't collected any data on the actual rats.
From the pre-patch notes in the Dev Blog it didn't appear that they were "balancing" the NPC rats, rather just the rewards.
I encourage you to go onto the test server and help generate a bunch more data for different agents in different systems - there's a thread already in the Patch Review forum that is collecting that data so there's no point putting it here.
We need both live (3211) and patch (32XX) data.
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2005.03.22 05:10:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Tyrrax Thorrk
I believe you're wrong about that, a given bounty NPC drops better loot the lower the sec rating of the system. This applies to 0.0 sec systems as well, there're a few systems that are -1 sec and thus have the best loot tables.
Well the bounty on the rat it sell... A 500k bounty bs in a level 4 mission, is that whether the mission take place in 1.0 space or it take place in 0.2 space. The loot in missions I think is tied to own tables for missions and as such is crap regardless :p
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Panzer Faust
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Posted - 2005.03.22 08:55:00 -
[9]
I heard they're only balancing high sec agents who are in 0,8>1.0 systems but agents in 0,5 for example would not be affected (at least not much), isnt it how it works? --- Proud Owner of a Navy Issue Raven. |
Helmut 314
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Posted - 2005.03.22 12:18:00 -
[10]
Well, CCP listens a lot to the vocal 0.0 PVP minority and this sounds quite a bit like what they wanted.
Im not buying that this is a "bugfix", its timing is rather convenient after the massive number of "level 4 missions in empire are evil" whining threads. It seems very strange that a minor bug that has no real effect on gameplay is prioritized and announced this loudly when there are lots of "features" that would benefit from a little attention.
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Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson |
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Faster ThanJesus
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Posted - 2005.03.22 13:04:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Helmut 314 Well, CCP listens a lot to the vocal 0.0 PVP minority and this sounds quite a bit like what they wanted.
Im not buying that this is a "bugfix", its timing is rather convenient after the massive number of "level 4 missions in empire are evil" whining threads. It seems very strange that a minor bug that has no real effect on gameplay is prioritized and announced this loudly when there are lots of "features" that would benefit from a little attention.
Actually, it is close to what they originally announced. And, tbh, it is needed (this is coming from a nr-full-time empire lvl 4 mission runner). Also, it won't make a huge difference - what proportion of your agent income is generated by the reward/bonus?
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.03.22 14:39:00 -
[12]
And ultimately what this does is yet make a missioning character even more valuable and they are gonna end up boosting agent running and making it more lucretive than it already is.
Keep up the good work whiners, you're making my game soooooooo much better. Seriously ...... bring on more mad ISK group lvl 4 running.
And as far as S' ....... you sure do bytch about missions a hole hell of a lot for something you yourself do. I think that is quite hypocritical in nature
how bout STFU already. enough is enough. go back to crime and punishment.
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Lodhi
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Posted - 2005.03.22 14:52:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Helmut 314 Well, CCP listens a lot to the vocal 0.0 PVP minority and this sounds quite a bit like what they wanted.
Im not buying that this is a "bugfix", its timing is rather convenient after the massive number of "level 4 missions in empire are evil" whining threads. It seems very strange that a minor bug that has no real effect on gameplay is prioritized and announced this loudly when there are lots of "features" that would benefit from a little attention.
Geez, u might have to go out from a safe system to make that sweet isk from L4 agent running, OMG WTF cry me a river.. Ever thought bout risk vs reward factor?
Cowboy > Mal you stay and daddy CB will buy you a new white and pink dress with lace |
Helmut 314
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Posted - 2005.03.22 16:03:00 -
[14]
LOL.
I lived for 6 months in Querious, not exactly the safest of 0.0 regions. I got completely bored of the life down there and the bull**** politics of 0.0. It has very little besides monotonous NPC chaining and mining high end minerals to offer. That or being either victim or perpetrator of silly ganks. Before that I lived in a 0.2 system for a couple of months, so I know what risk vs reward in low sec space entails.
If your interest isnt focused solely on PVP Empire has shedloads more to offer. Low sec space is like 0.0 only less interesting and more dangerous to defend yourself in. So lowering the rewards in high sec space is silly. It wont force people out into low sec, it wont reverse the EXODUS. All it will do is to slightly reduce the revenue for a large portion of the mission runners.
I dont do just level 4 missions, but they are the only realistic way to get Amarr Navy modules for my Slicer, so LP being cut by 30% makes me cringe.
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Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson |
S'Daria
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Posted - 2005.03.22 21:22:00 -
[15]
Edited by: S''Daria on 22/03/2005 21:49:36 More information...only the highest systems (0.9-1.0) seem to have a 30% "balance" in mission rewards.
In 0.4 systems the rewards have been increased by upto 27%.
EDIT: We need more information, so goto the Patch Review forum and post Tranquility and Singularity info on missions...the more mission data we collect the more accurate our estimate in the changes.
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Jaissica
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Posted - 2005.03.22 21:30:00 -
[16]
so haul your ass out to 0.4 and agent run there
oh wait, you wont be 100% safe there? thats not fair is it! you only get the best isk/faction mods/only way to get a faction BS, why should there be any risk
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rockboy
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Posted - 2005.03.23 01:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Helmut 314 LOL.
I lived for 6 months in Querious, not exactly the safest of 0.0 regions. I got completely bored of the life down there and the bull**** politics of 0.0. It has very little besides monotonous NPC chaining and mining high end minerals to offer. That or being either victim or perpetrator of silly ganks. Before that I lived in a 0.2 system for a couple of months, so I know what risk vs reward in low sec space entails.
If your interest isnt focused solely on PVP Empire has shedloads more to offer. Low sec space is like 0.0 only less interesting and more dangerous to defend yourself in. So lowering the rewards in high sec space is silly. It wont force people out into low sec, it wont reverse the EXODUS. All it will do is to slightly reduce the revenue for a large portion of the mission runners.
I dont do just level 4 missions, but they are the only realistic way to get Amarr Navy modules for my Slicer, so LP being cut by 30% makes me cringe.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
someone put this dude in charge. he is spot on on all points. in the post-exodus-pre-boost-to-l4-rewards month.. we all still did L4s. and it is the layout and aggro patterns, not the number, of rats that make a mission easy or difficult. hell, i say PLEASE triple the number of rats on a mission, especially the 1 mil + isktrees.. er, i mean.. battleships.
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Question2
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Posted - 2005.03.23 03:19:00 -
[18]
Faction mods are horrible offers.If you take one,slap yourself and ask what the hell you just did.
Faction ships with exception of faction BS are horrible as well.They are little more than ISK sinks.Its like buying a "painting" that you can leave in your item hangar.But it costed you 1 billion.Then T2 battleships comes out and faction BS = LOLERSKATES.
Most people run level 4 missions just so they can kill rats and have fun while making ISK at the same time,LP is secondary(but nice to have),for those who dont want to join an alliance and chain 0.0 rats.
Btw its just terribly ironic that the best level 4 security agent in republic fleet is in a deadend system that is devoid of pirates.Wonder why........
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Helmut 314
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Posted - 2005.03.23 11:31:00 -
[19]
I dont do level 4 missions for the isk, I do them for standings and for fun. Isk isnt hard to get by working for it, heck you can make a steady 6 million an hour doing scordite at no risk at all. Considering the time some agent missions takes scordite is sometimes better profit per minute. Every mission isnt Extravaganza or Vengeance, you know....Factor in insurance costs, ammo for the Raven, travel time, time spent picking up the loot and you will see that level 4 missions are profitable, yes, but not exactly the only game in town for making isk.
And it seems I was right about this not being a bug fix :
Quote: The next patch will also see a little more system security influence on rewards, to nudge the players that are willing to take a risk at player vs player encounters to go down a bit towards 0.0, while not 'ruining' things for the players who just want to hang around in empire space
said by Zrakor, in this thread.
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Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson |
Ethridge
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Posted - 2005.03.23 11:34:00 -
[20]
My question is, are lps for agents corp-wide in this next patch? Meaning can you go work for a lower security agent and not leave ur hard earned lps at another agent collecting dust? Sorry if this has been answered already, but I haven't seen any patch notes yet...
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Hakera
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Posted - 2005.03.23 11:37:00 -
[21]
its a fair comprimise, if I had my way lvl 4 agents would be soley low sec. And before you say "omg he's a pvp griefer whp just wants to shoot us!", I use a 0.9 lvl 4 agent myself to earn income. lvl 4 agents are the sole reason behind no one giving two hoots about low sec anymore. Issues like that will matter not one bit to the happy as larry high sec mission runner, but many of us look at world balance rather than just our wallets.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
S'Daria
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Posted - 2005.03.23 11:37:00 -
[22]
It was a bug fix. According to this dev blog: Quote: Agents now correctly take into consideration the security rating of the system they are in. There was a bug in the formula so that previously, the higher the level and better Effective Quality the agent, the less security rating had effect on the Reward/Bonus Reward/LP. This is now done correctly resulting in some high sec agent runners getting nerfed (high LVL, high EQ, 1.0) and low sec runners getting some love too (high LVL, high EQ, 0.0). However, this is not a deliberate nerf dear friends, I have been quite adamant on not nerfing Empire to boost low sec runners, but this is how it is supposed to be and we have to correct that.
The fixed the rewards.
However, I have to agree its the layout of the mission rats that determine the difficulty of a mission - when you warp into the middle of 70 Wingmen 8km away from you, there's not much you can do...
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2005.03.23 11:42:00 -
[23]
Guys...we already discussed this in thread about the risk vs. rewards...no need to bring up that again (or you'll be banned - *wink* *wink* Sherkaner).
Do you think its necessary to summarize that thread here so we don't go down the same argument trail?
I'll say it again, wait til after patch and you'll see the differences - the devs are listening to us believe it or not. They want this game to succeed just like we do.
Its imporant that I help pay for Bobby's braces.
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Toran Mehtar
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Posted - 2005.03.23 12:07:00 -
[24]
Should mission running have higher rewards in lower sec ? Yep, I've no problem with that.
Will altering mission rewards make a large difference to income ? No, bounties and loot have too big an influence on the overall reward.
Will this change make me go to lower sec ? Not at all.
I'm not where I am for safety. I'm not there for reward. I'm there for labs, factories, research agents and access to prime market locations.
Risk vs reward is a big factor in Eve, but It's not the only one.
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S'Daria
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Posted - 2005.03.23 12:31:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Toran Mehtar I'm not where I am for safety. I'm not there for reward. I'm there for labs, factories, research agents and access to prime market locations.
BINGO!!! Until 0.0 can offer that with POS'es there will be no Exodus.
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Helmut 314
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Posted - 2005.03.23 13:44:00 -
[26]
Well no my dear S'Daria, what you have there is one of the devs saying something, and what I pasted is another dev saying something a bit different. Zrakor does tend to be more reliable than Oveur when he makes a statement. He uses soonÖ a lot less often....
CCP is deluding themselves if they think the crowds in rens, jita and niyabainen would somehow magically move out and revitalize low sec space just because they cut rewards, sorry "fixes a bug", in high sec. Low sec space sucks by design. The Risk vs reward is slanted too much in favour of "bad people" in low sec systems to make it profitable to do missions there for the vast majority of mission runners. Until that changes, possibly somewhere 6-12 months down the line, low sec will be as empty as it is now.
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Trying is the first step of failure - Homer J Simpson |
X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.03.23 15:03:00 -
[27]
You guys keep debating this and gathering data .......
I'll keep running missions, recycling loot, selling BS, and making boat loads of ISK while you guys sit and discuss.
CCP thank you for:
adjusting missions even more to increase even more mad money for those willing to make it.
Adjusting rewards to fit security status of system.
Most of all and most importantly: for shortening the megapulse optimal range(been praying for this for a year) a bit and making it so that it will hit better at shorter ranges. People don't understand that this will make the gankageddon even more feared and twice as brutal than the way it was. All that means is now I can be in range to use that nos that never got used before. And they are complaining about the gankageddon now...... wait till after this "nerf"
All those changes have come from whiner threads and complaints. I really like this new approach to "nerf" CCP has taken in the last few monthes.
So keep up the great work whiners, your absolutely making my game great the more and harder you whine and with the more complaint generated whine threads you make, it's causing them to boost other things and not nerf anything so keep up the great work.
I like the fact that what I built this character for keeps getting boosted and adjusted for the better and I'm not even part of the group complaining. Hilariously ironic.
I said good'ay!
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X'Alor
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Posted - 2005.03.24 15:35:00 -
[28]
S'Daria,
Not trying to get on your case but I checked your ingame character sheet. I figure well heck, she's talking like she's been running missions a bit lets take a lookie and see who she's running with and see where she's at with them. Upon checking your standings I'm really not sure what to think of it.
Says you've been ingame for 1 yr 8 mothes but does not show one single standing for any race faction corp agent person character or nothing...... ??????
so out of curiousity, how do you know what the averages are from normal if you've never run any mission with that character?
Not sure how that would be that you have absolutely no standings tab ingame, being if you search on anyone else ingame they all have some sort of personal standing sheet tab.
All I can conclude is that either your character sheet is severely bugged ingame and you need it petitioned or.
your character has never ever run one single mission ever, your character is not even ingame, and your whole arguing for the past 3 weeks in forums about mission balance is moot and complete unconstructive and have no sense of balance.
Sorry but just doesn't look so good for any respect to your arguments about balance if you've never run any ingame.
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Jim Steele
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Posted - 2005.03.24 16:18:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Helmut 314 heck you can make a steady 6 million an hour doing scordite at no risk at all.
Agreed i think the lvl 4 missions are a way to get isk at the same sort of rate as scordite for those of us who would kill themselfs if they tried fitting a miner 2.
At the same point because of random ganks im put off .0, which to be honest should be higher rewards, i say the only change needed to be made is to make the best qual agents in low sec space so the faction offers are pratically impossible to get unless you run agent missions for a low sec agent.
Heck i know someone who mines in a .4 in a barge and he hasnt been podded yet by rats so one could say even .4 are "safe". im sure now scanning probes are out there will be alot of covert ops frigs hunting agenters.
Death to the Galante |
Daolin
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Posted - 2005.03.24 16:24:00 -
[30]
Originally by: X'Alor S'Daria,
Not trying to get on your case but I checked your ingame character sheet. I figure well heck, she's talking like she's been running missions a bit lets take a lookie and see who she's running with and see where she's at with them. Upon checking your standings I'm really not sure what to think of it.
Says you've been ingame for 1 yr 8 mothes but does not show one single standing for any race faction corp agent person character or nothing...... ??????
so out of curiousity, how do you know what the averages are from normal if you've never run any mission with that character?
Not sure how that would be that you have absolutely no standings tab ingame, being if you search on anyone else ingame they all have some sort of personal standing sheet tab.
All I can conclude is that either your character sheet is severely bugged ingame and you need it petitioned or.
your character has never ever run one single mission ever, your character is not even ingame, and your whole arguing for the past 3 weeks in forums about mission balance is moot and complete unconstructive and have no sense of balance.
Sorry but just doesn't look so good for any respect to your arguments about balance if you've never run any ingame.
According to the bio it's a forum troll alt ... one more reason to ignore what S'Daria says
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