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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Lord Zim
1991
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 21:30:00 -
[1081] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:Read this post and tell me dose this not cover all the bases and STILL remove the free instant knowing if that solo guys red or not. You're still depopulating nullsec. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Mirima Thurander
The 8th Tribe Seraphim Dragoons.
400
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 21:43:00 -
[1082] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Mirima Thurander wrote:Read this post and tell me dose this not cover all the bases and STILL remove the free instant knowing if that solo guys red or not. You're still depopulating nullsec. And the world ends next month. What you say is about as likely. A Dark time comes. A time of terror comes. My time. If it offends you. Stop me. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1765
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 21:57:00 -
[1083] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Mirima Thurander wrote:Read this post and tell me dose this not cover all the bases and STILL remove the free instant knowing if that solo guys red or not. You're still depopulating nullsec. That's the point.
Our 0.0 dreams are over. It took a while, but we're finally getting there. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Lord Zim
1991
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 21:58:00 -
[1084] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Mirima Thurander wrote:Read this post and tell me dose this not cover all the bases and STILL remove the free instant knowing if that solo guys red or not. You're still depopulating nullsec. And the world ends next month. What you say is about as likely and u have the same amount of proof. Except we have the proof we need from both when local was broken a few years ago and what happened when anoms got nerfed. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1765
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 22:13:00 -
[1085] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Mirima Thurander wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Mirima Thurander wrote:Read this post and tell me dose this not cover all the bases and STILL remove the free instant knowing if that solo guys red or not. You're still depopulating nullsec. And the world ends next month. What you say is about as likely and u have the same amount of proof. Except we have the proof we need from both when local was broken a few years ago and what happened when anoms got nerfed. No, you're clearly wrong. That poster just said you were, I'll totally believe them and support their suggestions that clearly wouldn't just lead to Highsec Online: You-are-a-moron-if-you-are-in-null: Incarna V3 Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1274
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 22:34:00 -
[1086] - Quote
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:No, the WHers would come out and take over. We already know how to operate without local. Yes, you do, provided you have the added mechanics of cynojamming everywhere, PVE being held entirely in sites that have to be scanned down with probes, entrances to your system that also have to be scanned down with probes, etc. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
942
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 22:44:00 -
[1087] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Kenneth O'Hara wrote:No, the WHers would come out and take over. We already know how to operate without local. Yes, you do, provided you have the added mechanics of cynojamming everywhere, PVE being held entirely in sites that have to be scanned down with probes, entrances to your system that also have to be scanned down with probes, etc.
You're wasting your time trying to explain game mechanics to someone who either is unable to understand or simply ignores to acknowledge those differences. Anyway, it's one of the best trolls I've ever seen around. Kepp feeding the fire and completely ignoring every single different game mechanic in between K-Space and WH-Space it's kinda hilarious or ridiculously idiot. brb |
Kenneth O'Hara
Bareback Pornstars Fade 2 Black
4876
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 22:48:00 -
[1088] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Kenneth O'Hara wrote:No, the WHers would come out and take over. We already know how to operate without local. Yes, you do, provided you have the added mechanics of cynojamming everywhere, PVE being held entirely in sites that have to be scanned down with probes, entrances to your system that also have to be scanned down with probes, etc. No those are the red sites that we have to scan down. We have anoms. All you do is run your basic ship scans without probes and no, not d-scans. Sometimes they're are 10 or there is like 3 or 4. We still have the same risk of a cloaky coming into the site without them showing up on d-scans. Most of those default greens or anoms as you call them are within d-scan ranges of the "temp gates" or Wh entrances. Which means if you are running your d-scans about every 5 to 10 secs, you can pick up the cloaky as they enter the system when they have to remove auto-cloak and throw on their own cloaks. I swore I explained this once before.
The fact that someone else has to scan down those entrances means they are experienced enough to at least know what they are doing. More risk and greater challenge.
Not to mention the WHs that others scan down from the outside to get into the system that we wouldn't know about unless we scanned it down after they came through.
As far as cynojamming, having people who know what they are doing scouting gates and running d-scans in the other systems and then relaying intel via teamspeak. Plain and simple and much faster than using in game chat. Plus, you can't tell if they are red or blue. In a Wh tough, it doesn't matter. They are all your enemy regardles of status. Best thread ever!!!
Stick around. I'm full of bad ideas. ~Isaac Clarke |
Lord Zim
1992
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 22:51:00 -
[1089] - Quote
Tell us more about this theory of yours where WHers would take over nullsec if only local was removed. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Kenneth O'Hara
Bareback Pornstars Fade 2 Black
4876
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 22:53:00 -
[1090] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Tell us more about this theory of yours where WHers would take over nullsec if only local was removed. Don't have to, you already have it figured out. [:sarcasm:]
Best thread ever!!!
Stick around. I'm full of bad ideas. ~Isaac Clarke |
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Lord Zim
1993
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Posted - 2012.11.17 22:57:00 -
[1091] - Quote
s/Don't have to/Can't/; Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Kenneth O'Hara
Bareback Pornstars Fade 2 Black
4876
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 22:59:00 -
[1092] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:s/Don't have to/Can't/; or won't... Best thread ever!!!
Stick around. I'm full of bad ideas. ~Isaac Clarke |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1274
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 23:04:00 -
[1093] - Quote
Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan
Damn, I'm having so much fun!
Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan
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SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
869
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 23:04:00 -
[1094] - Quote
No I'm pretty sure the first time you piled your stockpile of four dreads and 30 man fleet up against a hardened pos only to realize that there are 20 more to kill in that system alone you'd stand up and leave. |
Lord Zim
1993
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 23:04:00 -
[1095] - Quote
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:Lord Zim wrote:s/Don't have to/Can't/; or won't... Can't. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
942
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 23:05:00 -
[1096] - Quote
Kenneth O'Hara wrote: No those are the red sites that we have to scan down. We have anoms. All you do is run your basic ship scans without probes and no, not d-scans. Sometimes they're are 10 or there is like 3 or 4. We still have the same risk of a cloaky coming into the site without them showing up on d-scans. Most of those default greens or anoms as you call them are within d-scan ranges of the "temp gates" or Wh entrances. Which means if you are running your d-scans about every 5 to 10 secs, you can pick up the cloaky as they enter the system when they have to remove auto-cloak and throw on their own cloaks. I swore I explained this once before.
You are trying to explain something to null seccers, at least majority around already know. It's not like if some of them haven't already lived there, never go there or have entire alt corps running in.
Quote:As far as cynojamming, having people who know what they are doing scouting gates and running d-scans in the other systems and then relaying intel via teamspeak. Plain and simple and much faster than using in game chat. Plus, you can't tell if they are red or blue. In a Wh tough, it doesn't matter. They are all your enemy regardles of status.
You never heard about NBSI? -well it's exactly the same thing, every one who's not blue/purple/green is a target. yay ! Now tell me all about teamspeak and 10000 players in, relaying information read in their awesome D-Scan. Sry to repeat my self, but you have absolutely no idea what are the differences in between K-Space mechanics, and WH mechanics.
Once you do understand properly and correctly these differences, then you will understand why all these different posts and answers about "remove local" from "some" wh dudes are by far the best troll ever in this forum. The second part I like the most in this trolling thing is about probing, dear god, started living in WH my self and let me tell you if I've learned something about scanning and pvp it's not in WH's.
I finally find this thread entertaining. Keep posting, it's fun. brb |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
130
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 23:15:00 -
[1097] - Quote
- Nerf instant cynos
- redesign/modernize directional scan
- remove gate/covops cloaks from local
- remove local by default
- introduce structures that reestablish local
- make the structures easy to incapacitate, easy to repair
I love to-do lists. |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1274
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 23:40:00 -
[1098] - Quote
Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan
I love this game!
Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan Scan
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1767
|
Posted - 2012.11.17 23:58:00 -
[1099] - Quote
Sheynan wrote:
- introduce structures that reestablish local
- make the structures easy to incapacitate, easy to repair
Don't do this, the structure needs to have TONS of hitpoints so that Boat will be occupied in shooting every..single...one... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
131
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 00:00:00 -
[1100] - Quote
Quote: Scan Scan
I love this game!
Scan Scan
Scan
Indeed, that is why the direction scanner needs to be overhauled, before local can be touched.
It should reward active participation and skill and punish the unattentive without being a terrible, tedious pain to use. |
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1769
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 00:13:00 -
[1101] - Quote
Sheynan wrote:Indeed, that is why the direction scanner needs to be overhauled, before local can be touched.
It should reward active participation and skill and punish the unattentive without being a terrible, tedious pain to use. Let's just use the the approved manner and not do that, just hammer local, I'm sure it'll work out despite all claims to the contrary. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1763
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 00:16:00 -
[1102] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Sheynan wrote:Indeed, that is why the direction scanner needs to be overhauled, before local can be touched.
It should reward active participation and skill and punish the unattentive without being a terrible, tedious pain to use. Let's just use the the approved manner and not do that, just hammer local, I'm sure it'll work out despite all claims to the contrary. It's like people just look for reasons to reinvent the wheel for invention's sake.
2-Ēr.
Pretty basic. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Lord Zim
1996
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 00:18:00 -
[1103] - Quote
http://cisolutions.co.uk/FCKfiles/Image/reinvent_wheel.jpg
:colbert: Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
MasterEnt
The Scope Gallente Federation
107
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 01:00:00 -
[1104] - Quote
LOL 55 pages of this.. can pretty much be summed up here:
Pro Delayed Local Camp - Makes things a tad more interesting and risky - Use teamwork to replace it
Con Delayed Local Camp - Can't solo bear - Can't be bothered to use probes and Dscan - Can't be bothered to work as a team because some aspects are not "fun" - If you don't agree, you have never lived in null - If you don't have the right corp tag, you never have lived in null - If you don't agree you are stupid - If you don't agree you are not reading correctly
Lets face it, some (individuals) of the big alliances here not wanting to remove their magic intel box blame everyone else for not understanding them or blame CCP for not making conditions right. You guys own the space, are given the gift to make what you want out of it and have managed to turn it into a vast empty wasteland that for some reason, does not seem to make to profit you wish it did, despite the ownership of lucrative moons and planets and not many people around to challenge your daily activities in most systems.
Pathetic and delightfully delicious. |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
1764
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 01:04:00 -
[1105] - Quote
MasterEnt wrote:LOL 55 pages of this.. can pretty much be summed up here:
Pro Delayed Local Camp - Makes things a tad more interesting and risky - Use teamwork to replace it
Con Delayed Local Camp - Can't solo bear - Can't be bothered to use probes and Dscan - Can't be bothered to work as a team because some aspects are not "fun" - If you don't agree, you have never lived in null - If you don't have the right corp tag, you never have lived in null - If you don't agree you are stupid - If you don't agree you are not reading correctly
Lets face it, some (individuals) of the big alliances here not wanting to remove their magic intel box blame everyone else for not understanding them or blame CCP for not making conditions right. You guys own the space, are given the gift to make what you want out of it and have managed to turn it into a vast empty wasteland that for some reason, does not seem to make to profit you wish it did, despite the ownership of lucrative moons and planets and not many people around to challenge your daily activities in most systems.
Pathetic and delightfully delicious. ITT: We want to add challenge without adding consumate compensatory value to your space where we don't live because we think it would be neat.
You're right. Pathetic and delightfully delicious. He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
648
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 01:13:00 -
[1106] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:Read this post and tell me dose this not cover all the bases and STILL remove the free instant knowing if that solo guys red or not. Requiring more alts to sit cloaked on gates to visually inspect each jump is not "emergent game-play" and would, in fact and practicality, result in *fewer and fewer* targets at all....
This mechanic would *only* favor large groups that have the numbers to be able to afford slots/alts to sit on gates. And if you think they wouldn't, you have no clue about the tenacity (Ok, I'll say it) and the skill of players who make their in game time in Null sec.
WH's work because there aren't static gates/routes in and out - you *never* know where your "gate" is going to show up, you can't place 100% bookmarks around them and they aren't permanent.
Kenneth O'Hara wrote:No, the WHers would come out and take over. We already know how to operate without local. We already have space in 0.0, without going to Nullsec... Tell me again why we want to go to Sov 0.0?
tl;dr: If we wanted to, we would already be there.
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Scan &Scan ad infinitum... It's actually *not* that bad when you get understand Wormhole mechanics well enough. Also playing with friends (where have I heard that before?) makes it much better.
Last but not least (hardest part for me to believe, really) some people *LIKE* Scanning! .
So it's not quite *that* bad, but yes, you do learn to depend on your D-Scan and keep your situation awareness up (at least, that's my experience).
MasterEnt wrote:LOL 55 pages of this.. can pretty much be summed up here:
Pro Delayed Local Camp - Makes things a tad more interesting and risky - Use teamwork to replace it
Con Delayed Local Camp - Can't solo bear - Can't be bothered to use probes and Dscan - Can't be bothered to work as a team because some aspects are not "fun" - If you don't agree, you have never lived in null - If you don't have the right corp tag, you never have lived in null - If you don't agree you are stupid - If you don't agree you are not reading correctly
Lets face it, some (individuals) of the big alliances here not wanting to remove their magic intel box blame everyone else for not understanding them or blame CCP for not making conditions right. You guys own the space, are given the gift to make what you want out of it and have managed to turn it into a vast empty wasteland that for some reason, does not seem to make to profit you wish it did, despite the ownership of lucrative moons and planets and not many people around to challenge your daily activities in most systems.
Pathetic and delightfully delicious. /sarcasm Dam, must've missed the Scope's occupation of WH's while I've been AFK. /sarcasm
You sir, are wrong.
vOv
I can't do anything about that, but it's the truth.
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
James Amril-Kesh
RAZOR Alliance
1277
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 01:26:00 -
[1107] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:It's actually *not* that bad when you get understand Wormhole mechanics well enough. No, I understand that. I was more referring to what you'd have to do to be even remotely safe without local in nullsec, and that's not even counting the fact that anoms are often not in dscan range of gates and therefore you won't be able to detect that cloaky hot dropper until it's too late.
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Also playing with friends (where have I heard that before?) makes it much better. Sure, if there's enough isk gained from the PVE activities where everybody can make a reasonable profit.
Asuri Kinnes wrote:So it's not quite *that* bad, but yes, you do learn to depend on your D-Scan and keep your situation awareness up (at least, that's my experience). The only real difference between WH d-scanning and local in nullsec is that one requires you to press a button. Both of them require you to pay attention. |
Lord Zim
1996
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 01:29:00 -
[1108] - Quote
Actually, it's more like this: Pro WH local camp: - Sucks at ganking - Tries to petition CCP to cover up for this lack - Continually ignores differences which make quite a difference (since, obviously, this is why they're pushing for the change)
Con WH local camp: - Continually tells the pro wh local camp about the differences - Continually tells the pro wh local camp that increasing effort in null for the same reward will make more people either move to whs proper, hisec for l4s etc or lowsec for fw Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
648
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 01:30:00 -
[1109] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Asuri Kinnes wrote:It's actually *not* that bad when you get understand Wormhole mechanics well enough. No, I understand that. Ah, my bad - I thought you were responding directly about living in WH's.
apologies.
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
153
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 01:42:00 -
[1110] - Quote
MasterEnt wrote:LOL 55 pages of this.. can pretty much be summed up here:
Pro Delayed Local Camp - Makes things a tad more interesting and risky
Actually, this is completely false, and is more inline with the Con of "- If you don't agree you are stupid".
How many times do we, the people who actually live in nullsec, have to explain that the reason you can't find any ratters to gank is because most of the guys in you see on you short little trips to nullsec are PvP alts.
Most nullsecers keep there money making alts where the money is. They are day trading in Jita, afk drone boat mission running in highsec, grinding FW in lowsec, ninja looting sleeper sites in w-space. They used to do incursions and research agents before they got nerfed. We gank freighters in highsec because that is where the freighters full of loot are.
It won't make it any more risky. If anything it will make it more boring because you'll have to go through all this probing/scanning crap to just figure out if there is a fleet to pick a fight with. It will mean way less risk for anything fitting a covops cloak. It sure as hell won't be interesting because all the people who actually live in nullsec know what the extremely predictable result would be. Even more people give up on undocking and earning isk in nullsec.
We are already, right now, living the results of high risk for little reward. |
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