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Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
16
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 12:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello,
I hate align time of my orca, and i hear its even worse on freighters and on top of that their warp speed is extremely slow. Its like double nerf. On top of that freighters are extremely expensvive and require somewhat expensive skills. Thats actually triple nerf.
There is no reason they should be nerfed in this manner, because moving stuff around is not a bad thing. Realistically freighters should have a slower align time and possibly slow warp speed, i agree with that, but the state they are in currently is beyond reason. To be honest CCP should consider putting a cap on align time of all ships, because current align times have become overinflated.
Basically Align time = downtime. Its time where you just sit and stare at the screen, its boring and discouraing. You cant measure how many people leave the game because of the align times, and its likely not a sole reason for people giving up on the game, but it is no doubt a contributing factor as align time is actually a nuisance.
Imo CCP needs to readress wetrher they are designing a nuisance or an obstacle. There is a difference between the two imo. Having a game with too many nuisances will eventually make people quit. Having a game with obstacles will make people play. Basically what i mean is, a nuisance is something you cant do anything about where as an obstacle is a challange and something you can do something about. Thats the essence of any game, a challenge at the core consisting of obstacles players can overcome.
So the align times especially on freighters are a nuisance. It should be turned into an obstacle. And it could be done by giving pilots the ability to fit their freighters. First of all lets make it clear that the freighters have huge cargo-bays, meaning a 5% increase to cargo capacity is alot. For this matter a 5% decrease is also alot. Thats why i believe any attribute that affects cargo bay, regardless of its a bonus or "debonus" should not affect a freighter. This means there is no penalty in using an overdrive, however there is no bonus in using a cargo expander either. Its not unbelievable either, from the games perspective as because of the large and "special" cargo bay of the freighter, modules does not affect it.
So o keep things simple freighters shouldnt get too many slots. And to be honest the only slots that really matters as far as i can tell are the low-lots because thats where you improve align times and what not. However i actually suggest frieghters get high slots and med slots as well just to give people something to experiment with. I mean, even the old school industrial ships have high slots. So,1 slot each. 1 high, 1 med, 1 low on each freighter. I realise 1 istab is not going to make a difference on a freighter, it certainly doesent on my orca. This is why i believe their default align times should be lowered. Even if 1 slot/istab still does not significantly improve align time, the new default reduction to lets say 15-20 secs will have freighter owners rejoice, and as if that isnt enough the ability for them to expirement with fits although pretty limited, will just add to their satisfaction. Well, thats why i think long align times are bad, and freighters at least could use an overhaul. |
Warde Guildencrantz
TunDraGon
152
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 12:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
ur not fitting freighters ever, because they are supposed to align at a set, huge amount of time, because otherwise they could just troll through low and null without issues. As well, they could end up doing the cloaky warp trick and becoming invincible, however impossible that seems...
and its not just your convenience that is being screwed up by your obelisk taking 30 seconds to get into warp, its the speed of movement of items. Too many things moving too quickly would make the market move much too quickly respectively.
Your align times won't change, because they make sense for such massive ships, they prevent people from just flying around dangerous space willy nilly without support, and they limit market movement. |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
16
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 12:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Really? 20 seconds is too little for a gate camp. I think you are understimating them. Gatecampers can catch cloaking frigs and what not atm. Its called instalocking. Once the align times goes beyond 10-15 seconds it doesnt add anything but a noisance for players |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1557
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 14:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
OP doesnt understand what 'nerf' means TK is recruiting |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
24
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Posted - 2012.10.26 14:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
What does it mean? |
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
9
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 15:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Souisa wrote:... Its like double nerf. ... Thats actually triple nerf.
There is no reason they should be nerfed in this manner, ...
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
25
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 16:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
You cant figure out what i mean? |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Air The Unthinkables
2043
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 17:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
freighters are a specialist ship, like most ships in EVE
freighters are so specialized that they can only do one thing: haul lots and lots of cargo
complaining that a freighter is too slow is like complaining about a tier 3 BC having too few EHP, or being unable to fit a 100mn AB to your frigate |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
26
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 17:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
The question is not wether or not the frieghter has a legimitate role. I believe it has. But the question is wether or not it does it sufficiently |
Jin alPatar
Entertainment 7wenty
9
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 18:49:00 -
[10] - Quote
Souisa wrote:You cant figure out what i mean?
Nerfing something refers to making it worse or less than it was. Freighters have never received a nerf, they were designed with poor align time and poor speed. But they haven't been lowered from where they started. Hence, no nerfs here.
Aside from semantics: Freighters are "Working as Designed".
The design is for a ship that moves enormous amounts with very specific weaknesses. Given the huge load these things can carry, it makes sense for the align time to be what it is. It's related to mass ... well, it's related to the moment of inertia, but if we assume density is consistent then we can use mass for moment.
A Charon's mass is 10x the mass of a Raven. A Raven has an align time of 12 seconds. If we want to be realistic, the Charon should have an align time around 120 seconds.
(for anyone that cares: Align time is directly related to the angular acceleration of a ship. It's the same formula you're used to (F=ma) we we replace mass with the moment of inertia (F=Ia). (technically a different 'a' too, but I don't care that much for the details). Anyway, a Charon would assumedly have a larger engine than a Raven. For a 40 sec align time to make sense, the engine on the Charon would need to be 3x more powerful than a Raven's. This seems realistic)
Strangely enough, I agree that freighters should have some limited fittings slots (2 low, 2 mediums, 3 large rigs). It gives you the ability to speed it up or tank it up. |
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Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
26
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 19:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
Align times that take longer than 20 secs is poor design tho |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1065
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 19:41:00 -
[12] - Quote
Souisa wrote:Align times that take longer than 20 secs is poor design tho Bear in mind that you can move entire fleets inside a freighter (repackaged of course) and/or seed entire local markets in far flung locations. ~900k cubic meters is nothing to sniff at. In fact... the freighter is actually faster than some industrials per cubic meter even though it is slower... all due to its massive cargohold.
Now... there is a trick to make freighters effectively "instawarp"... but if you want it you have to send me 20 million ISK. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade Intrepid Crossing
436
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 19:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Souisa wrote:Align times that take longer than 20 secs is poor design tho Bear in mind that you can move entire fleets inside a freighter (repackaged of course) and/or seed entire local markets in far flung locations. ~900k cubic meters is nothing to sniff at. In fact... the freighter is actually faster than some industrials per cubic meter, per jump when large cargos need to be moved... all due to its massive cargohold. Now... there is a trick to make freighters effectively "instawarp"... but if you want it you have to send me 20 million ISK.
Or send me 40 million.
No, wait...15? Right? Am I scamming correctly? Unsub or don't.-á I don't care what your reasons are, and neither does anyone else.-á Just click the button and go away - or don't. |
Jadzia Narys
Grim Determination Nulli Secunda
6
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 20:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Freighters are the largest ship that can be allowed in high sec. They were designed to hold cargo not warp fast. Im sorry if you dont like this you dont you give blockades runners a try? |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
26
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 20:24:00 -
[15] - Quote
It seems that people do not understand the core problem which is freighters are dull. You could easily improve the align time and warp time, without it wrecking the economy. The problem is freighters are boring and way too time consuming and they dont have to. I understand that they shouldnt be insta warpers, but they wont be with align time >20 secs. They would simply become less excrutiating to pilot, whereas they can still be tackled, ganked and what not |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
26
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 20:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Souisa wrote:Align times that take longer than 20 secs is poor design tho Bear in mind that you can move entire fleets inside a freighter (repackaged of course) and/or seed entire local markets in far flung locations. ~900k cubic meters is nothing to sniff at. In fact... the freighter is actually faster than some industrials per cubic meter, per jump when large cargos need to be moved... all due to its massive cargohold. Now... there is a trick to make freighters effectively "instawarp"... but if you want it you have to send me 20 million ISK.
Its also very expensive so it better be better. It takes how many normal industrials to buy 1 freighter? It takes at least 70 just to afford the skills. Anyway my point is the freighter is dull and that an align time of 20 seconds rather than 40 has a positive impact for the pilot, and no negative impact on the economy, piracy, ganks and so on |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1066
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 20:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Souisa wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:Souisa wrote:Align times that take longer than 20 secs is poor design tho Bear in mind that you can move entire fleets inside a freighter (repackaged of course) and/or seed entire local markets in far flung locations. ~900k cubic meters is nothing to sniff at. In fact... the freighter is actually faster than some industrials per cubic meter, per jump when large cargos need to be moved... all due to its massive cargohold. Its also very expensive so it better be better. It takes how many normal industrials to buy 1 freighter? Hell, it takes about 70 normal industrials just to afford the skills for a freighter. You seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of "diminishing returns" in EVE. If you want to be more and more effective you must pay exponentially more. And even then, it's no guarantee.
For example: my carrier costs about 2 billion ISK. It has around 1.2 million EHP, can repair about 2k DPS (9K while in triage), and field about 900 DPS in fighters. However... I can be pinned down indefinitely by a 30 million ISK Malediction (T2 Frigate) using a warp disruptor and my fighters (valued at 15 million ISK a pop) won't even scratch it. Hell... Warrior II drones won't either if that interceptor is speed fit.
Souisa wrote:Besides my point is the freighter is dull and that an align time of 20 seconds rather than 40 makes a huge difference for the pilot, not for the economy nor gankers etc. Actually, 20 seconds makes a HUMONGOUS difference for traders. The distance between Jita and Amarr is... what? 30 or so jumps? Assuming that a Freighter pilot doesn't use the "instawarp" trick...
40 seconds x 30 jumps = 1200 seconds ( 20 minutes) just aligning.
20 seconds x 30 jumps = 600 seconds (10 minutes) just aligning.
And yes... you're right... not many players want to sit through 20 minutes of watching their ship just point in the right direction. HOWEVER... this is INTENTIONAL. It is this time sink that restricts trade between different regions and causes price differences... which allows those traders who ARE willing to put the effort into sitting through 20 minutes of aligning to profit. This same reasoning can also be applied when the freighter is being used as a corporate/alliance asset to move war materials across the map.
Now... you may point towards Jump Freighters and their ability to use a jump drive to bypass all the aligning and warping. What about their ability to move ships and goods? Well... there is a reason they cost upwards of ten times as much as a normal freighter and have around a third of their T1 brethren's cargo capacity. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
762
|
Posted - 2012.10.26 21:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Can any of you freighter pilots tell us how much faster you align when webbed by a friendly?
Isn't that enough of an align buff? |
Phased Veldspar
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 01:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Can any of you freighter pilots tell us how much faster you align when webbed by a friendly?
Isn't that enough of an align buff?
Isn't that considered an exploit leading to bannishment?
|
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1071
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 04:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Phased Veldspar wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Can any of you freighter pilots tell us how much faster you align when webbed by a friendly?
Isn't that enough of an align buff? Isn't that considered an exploit leading to bannishment? It's a... "grey area" in the rules... shhhhhhhhhhh. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
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Gerrick Palivorn
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
338
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 05:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Phased Veldspar wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Can any of you freighter pilots tell us how much faster you align when webbed by a friendly?
Isn't that enough of an align buff? Isn't that considered an exploit leading to bannishment? It's a... "grey area" in the rules... shhhhhhhhhhh.
Their are a lot of 'grey areas'
MWD+Cloak instawarp
MWD Warp trick on the Orca
The forementioned Webbing trick
All happily ignored by the GM's and Dev's, I say if no one is being banned for it, use it.
If you're unhappy with your align speed, use the friendly web trick. If you are unfamiliar with this, please send me 13.5 Mil isk and I will be happy to give you the details on how to do it properly. Also it is relatively cheap for the reward you get from it. MMOs come and go, but Eve remains.-á -Garresh- |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
27
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 06:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Souisa wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:Souisa wrote:Align times that take longer than 20 secs is poor design tho Bear in mind that you can move entire fleets inside a freighter (repackaged of course) and/or seed entire local markets in far flung locations. ~900k cubic meters is nothing to sniff at. In fact... the freighter is actually faster than some industrials per cubic meter, per jump when large cargos need to be moved... all due to its massive cargohold. Its also very expensive so it better be better. It takes how many normal industrials to buy 1 freighter? Hell, it takes about 70 normal industrials just to afford the skills for a freighter. You seem to be unfamiliar with the concept of "diminishing returns" in EVE. If you want to be more and more effective you must pay exponentially more. And even then, it's no guarantee. For example: my carrier costs about 2 billion ISK. It has around 1.2 million EHP, can repair about 2k DPS (9K while in triage), and field about 900 DPS in fighters. However... I can be pinned down indefinitely by a 30 million ISK Malediction (T2 Frigate) using a warp disruptor and my fighters (valued at 15 million ISK a pop) won't even scratch it. Hell... Warrior II drones won't either if that interceptor is speed fit. Souisa wrote:Besides my point is the freighter is dull and that an align time of 20 seconds rather than 40 makes a huge difference for the pilot, not for the economy nor gankers etc. Actually, 20 seconds makes a HUMONGOUS difference for traders. The distance between Jita and Amarr is... what? 30 or so jumps? Assuming that a Freighter pilot doesn't use the "instawarp" trick... 40 seconds x 30 jumps = 1200 seconds ( 20 minutes) just aligning. 20 seconds x 30 jumps = 600 seconds (10 minutes) just aligning. And yes... you're right... not many players want to sit through 20 minutes of watching their ship just point in the right direction. HOWEVER... this is INTENTIONAL. It is this time sink that restricts trade between different regions and causes price differences... which allows those traders who ARE willing to put the effort into sitting through 20 minutes of aligning to profit. This same reasoning can also be applied when the freighter is being used as a corporate/alliance asset to move war materials across the map. Now... you may point towards Jump Freighters and their ability to use a jump drive to bypass all the aligning and warping. What about their ability to move ships and goods? Well... there is a reason they cost upwards of ten times as much as a normal freighter and have around a third of their T1 brethren's cargo capacity.
What. Price. Differences? You need to proove that the excrutiating align time of freighters means price differences. How come the price on republic fleet phased plasma M is roughly the same in Jita and Rens, but if you go to molden heath which is just 5 jumps from rens, the prices are completely different. Its not true that the excrutiating freighter align time creates diversity in prices. Its not the driving factor.
On my opinion the only thing restricting flow of items and ships does is increase prices. And this is not even a significant change to the freighters, it will just make it an overall more enjoyble experience. Because first of all you can experiment with fits, but second of all you dont have to spend half the evening staring at the screen. In order words it will have minimal effect on the economy, but from the freighter pilots perspective who play an extremely important role in the economy, flying and owning the ship becomes a much more enjoyable experience. |
GizzyBoy
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
19
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 07:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Phased Veldspar wrote:Danika Princip wrote:Can any of you freighter pilots tell us how much faster you align when webbed by a friendly?
Isn't that enough of an align buff? Isn't that considered an exploit leading to bannishment? It's a... "grey area" in the rules... shhhhhhhhhhh.
Not a grey area its allowed.
If you roll a corp fleet one with say a command ship, and (skirmish links?) you get faster align, faster warp times, combine with webbing your freighter, its all good, but now you need 2 specialized chars. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1071
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 09:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
Souisa wrote:You need to proove that the excrutiating align time of freighters means price differences. How come the price on republic fleet phased plasma M is roughly the same in Jita and Rens, but if you go to molden heath which is just 5 jumps from rens, the prices are completely different. Its not true that the excrutiating freighter align time creates diversity in prices. Its not the driving factor. You're looking at the issue too narrowly. Look at the bigger picture. Some items like ammo may be more or less the same price in many different areas due to the ease by which they can be manufactured (or that they there is such great supply that they have bottomed out in price and can't fluctuate at all).
Other items like ores, ice, ships... bulky items... tend to see a larger range of price differences due to the fact that they are a ***** to move around. And here are freighters... the answer to moving mass quantities of such items from place to place. The only two penaltoes you pay for such capability is in being SLOOOOOOOOOOW and not being able to do much outside of hauling.
Taking all this into account... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how faster align times for ships with enormous cargo capacities equals faster travel times and thus more stuff being moved around. It also doesn't take a rocket scientist to see how more stuff being moved around means that the "bar" in the trading profession will be set higher and that making profits off of market hub differences will become more of a game of volume rather than smart investment and effort. Oh yeah... and alliance scale war becomes even easier because your enemies can move more stuff quicker.
Souisa wrote:On my opinion the only thing restricting flow of items and ships does is increase prices. Which is a sometimes a good thing (and quite intentional when looking at how Freighters and Jump Freighters are designed). If prices are depressed too much then the only profit that can be earned is through the selling of mass quantities of stuff and scraping the pennies off the bottom.
Souisa wrote:And this is not even a significant change to the freighters, Cutting the align time of what is technically a capital ship down to that of a battleship is quite a significant change. Also... read my previous posts. Those seconds adds up.
Souisa wrote:it will just make it an overall more enjoyble experience. Making gobs of money after a painful freighter run is very enjoyable. Making pennies off a less painful freighter run is less enjoyable in my opinion.
Souisa wrote:Because first of all you can experiment with fits, So long as you can't gain enough cargo space to bring a capital into high-sec I do not disagree with limited fitting options for freighters.
but second of all you dont have to spend half the evening staring at the screen.
See above. This is intentional.
In order words it will have minimal effect on the economy, but from the freighter pilots perspective who play an extremely important role in the economy, flying and owning the ship becomes a much more enjoyable experience.
You are vastly underestimating the the logistical capabilities of Freighters and how much they can effect markets on the local level. I've seen a single freighter turn a massive profit in far flung areas with one load. And the only reason this is possible is because almost no one wants to take the time and effort to slowboat a freighter into the ass end of nowhere and back. This is good IMO. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
350
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 10:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
Souisa wrote:It seems that people do not understand the core problem which is freighters are dull. You could easily improve the align time and warp time, without it wrecking the economy. The problem is freighters are boring and way too time consuming and they dont have to. I understand that they shouldnt be insta warpers, but they wont be with align time >20 secs. They would simply become less excrutiating to pilot, whereas they can still be tackled, ganked and what not
They are meant to be dull, freighters are probably the most game breaking and hard to balance ship in eve. Give them fitting variation and that balancing becomes impossible.
|
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
360
|
Posted - 2012.10.27 16:14:00 -
[26] - Quote
I agree that Freighters need some fitting, while also probably requiring a corresponding nerf to allow for fitting without making them stupid.
I disagree that Freighters should be able to align and warp fast, even with fitting capability. I also disagree that being able to align faster will make them "troll through lowsec and Null" as suggested. Even faster they would pretty much instalock. That doesn't mean they should align better than an unfit Orca
Solution:
1. Grant fitting.
2. Lower cargo capacity.
3. Decrease tank by dropping all shield and armor resists, then reducing structure amount.
4. Increase Inertia.
End result should allow for fitting better than current in any one area, but only marginally, and at a cost to something else. Make them marginally better, but not so much that it ends up being overkill, so much as less predictable. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
28
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 03:23:00 -
[27] - Quote
An overhaul will come sooner or later because every freighter pilot you talk to agree they ******* suck |
Alexila Quant
Strategic Acquisitions Group
13
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 05:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
Souisa wrote:Hello,
I hate align time of my orca, and i hear its even worse on freighters and on top of that their warp speed is extremely slow. Its like double nerf. On top of that freighters are extremely expensvive and require somewhat expensive skills. Thats actually triple nerf.
There is no reason they should be nerfed in this manner, because moving stuff around is not a bad thing. Realistically freighters should have a slower align time and possibly slow warp speed, i agree with that, but the state they are in currently is beyond reason. To be honest CCP should consider putting a cap on align time of all ships, because current align times have become overinflated.
Basically Align time = downtime. Its time where you just sit and stare at the screen, its boring and discouraing. You cant measure how many people leave the game because of the align times, and its likely not a sole reason for people leaving, but it is no doubt a contributing factor as align time is actually a nuisance.
Imo CCP needs to consider wether they are designing a nuisance or an obstacle. There is a difference between the two imo. Having a game with too many nuisances will eventually make people quit. Having a game with obstacles will make people play. Basically what i mean is, a nuisance is something you cant do anything about where as an obstacle is a challange and something you can do something about. Thats the essence of any game, a challenge at the core consisting of obstacles players can overcome.
So the align times especially on freighters are a nuisance. It should be turned into an obstacle. And it could be done by giving pilots the ability to fit their freighters. First of all lets make it clear that the freighters have huge cargo-bays, meaning a 5% increase to cargo capacity is alot. For this matter a 5% decrease is also alot. Thats why i believe any attribute that affects cargo bay, regardless of its a bonus or "debonus" should not affect a freighter. This means there is no penalty in using an overdrive, however there is no bonus in using a cargo expander either. Its not unbelievable either, from the games perspective as because of the large and "special" cargo bay of the freighter, modules does not affect it.
So to keep things simple freighters shouldnt get too many slots. And to be honest the only slots that really matter as far as i can tell are the low-lots because thats where you improve align times and what not. However i actually suggest frieghters get high slots and med slots as well just to give people something to experiment with. I mean, even the old school industrial ships have high slots. So,1 slot each. 1 high, 1 med, 1 low on each freighter. I realise 1 istab is not going to make a difference on a freighter, it certainly doesent on my orca. This is why i believe their default align times should be lowered. Even if 1 slot/istab still does not significantly improve align time, the new default reduction to lets say 15-20 secs will have freighter owners rejoice, and as if that isnt enough the ability for them to expirement with fits although pretty limited, will just add to their satisfaction. Well, thats why i think long align times are bad, and freighters at least could use an overhaul.
TL;Didnt read the whole thing but I did read these:
1:Quote: You cant measure how many people leave the game because of the align times
You can not substantiate that ludicrous claim in any way shape or form.
2:Quote: Basically what i mean is, a nuisance is something you cant do anything about where as an obstacle is a challange and something you can do something about. Thats the essence of any game, a challenge at the core consisting of obstacles players can overcome. Actually align times on ANY ship can be reduced to next to zero with one alt (or friend because, you know, Eve is an ONLINE game) with a few webs.
And that's where I stopped reading when I realized you know nothing about warp/align mechanics.
|
usrevenge
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
7
|
Posted - 2012.10.28 05:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
been suggested before to allow rigs on freighters while nerfing them so that cargo rigs would = what their cargo is now... im all for it but many are not... hit or miss.... |
Souisa
WESCORP 2.0
28
|
Posted - 2012.10.29 00:23:00 -
[30] - Quote
Alexila Quant wrote:Souisa wrote:Hello,
I hate align time of my orca, and i hear its even worse on freighters and on top of that their warp speed is extremely slow. Its like double nerf. On top of that freighters are extremely expensvive and require somewhat expensive skills. Thats actually triple nerf.
There is no reason they should be nerfed in this manner, because moving stuff around is not a bad thing. Realistically freighters should have a slower align time and possibly slow warp speed, i agree with that, but the state they are in currently is beyond reason. To be honest CCP should consider putting a cap on align time of all ships, because current align times have become overinflated.
Basically Align time = downtime. Its time where you just sit and stare at the screen, its boring and discouraing. You cant measure how many people leave the game because of the align times, and its likely not a sole reason for people leaving, but it is no doubt a contributing factor as align time is actually a nuisance.
Imo CCP needs to consider wether they are designing a nuisance or an obstacle. There is a difference between the two imo. Having a game with too many nuisances will eventually make people quit. Having a game with obstacles will make people play. Basically what i mean is, a nuisance is something you cant do anything about where as an obstacle is a challange and something you can do something about. Thats the essence of any game, a challenge at the core consisting of obstacles players can overcome.
So the align times especially on freighters are a nuisance. It should be turned into an obstacle. And it could be done by giving pilots the ability to fit their freighters. First of all lets make it clear that the freighters have huge cargo-bays, meaning a 5% increase to cargo capacity is alot. For this matter a 5% decrease is also alot. Thats why i believe any attribute that affects cargo bay, regardless of its a bonus or "debonus" should not affect a freighter. This means there is no penalty in using an overdrive, however there is no bonus in using a cargo expander either. Its not unbelievable either, from the games perspective as because of the large and "special" cargo bay of the freighter, modules does not affect it.
So to keep things simple freighters shouldnt get too many slots. And to be honest the only slots that really matter as far as i can tell are the low-lots because thats where you improve align times and what not. However i actually suggest frieghters get high slots and med slots as well just to give people something to experiment with. I mean, even the old school industrial ships have high slots. So,1 slot each. 1 high, 1 med, 1 low on each freighter. I realise 1 istab is not going to make a difference on a freighter, it certainly doesent on my orca. This is why i believe their default align times should be lowered. Even if 1 slot/istab still does not significantly improve align time, the new default reduction to lets say 15-20 secs will have freighter owners rejoice, and as if that isnt enough the ability for them to expirement with fits although pretty limited, will just add to their satisfaction. Well, thats why i think long align times are bad, and freighters at least could use an overhaul. TL;Didnt read the whole thing but I did read these: 1: Quote: You cant measure how many people leave the game because of the align times
You can not substantiate that ludicrous claim in any way shape or form. 2: Quote: Basically what i mean is, a nuisance is something you cant do anything about where as an obstacle is a challange and something you can do something about. Thats the essence of any game, a challenge at the core consisting of obstacles players can overcome. Actually align times on ANY ship can be reduced to next to zero with one alt (or friend because, you know, Eve is an ONLINE game) with a few webs. And that's where I stopped reading when I realized you know nothing about warp/align mechanics. I get the gist of your post tho. You want a freighter buff because a ship that can carry 900,000+ M3 of cargo doesn't warp fast enough for you. Giving freighters fitting slots would be stupid. They don't have Power grid or CPU capacity because they are made to be hollow tin cans that move things from point A to point B. Allowing them to fit modules is ludicrous and nonsensical. I understand that they can be easily suicide ganked in Hisec but that's why you run with an escort squad when you're flying a 1.7 billion isk brick, or at the very least a rapier with 2 webs so you don't sit there for 10 minutes aligning. It's not a 'nuisance' as you so eloquently put it, it's an 'obstacle' that is easily overcome with a corp mate or an alt. If you're in an NPC corp well tough luck. It's the price you pay for being un-decable.
Read the whole thing maybe you will understand |
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