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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10154
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:07:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tetsuigablm wrote:I dont quite remember seeing that anywhere, ever. If someone can prove me wrong, then fine, but im pretty certain INFINATE FREE WARZ were never intented to happen, otherwise why even raise the prices.......? That's the entire point of making wars mutual: to make them free and infinite until either side surrenders, and to act as a revenge mechanism to lock in people in a war they started. It's been that way since, oh, roughly forever.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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S'Way
Bitter Vets
279
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:08:00 -
[32] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Can't you just disband the corp and make a new one? Yes he could do that.
Also he got offered 500 extra targets for free - and is complaining about it ?
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Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
50
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:08:00 -
[33] - Quote
Pretty sad that your quitting eve because your either too lazy to make a new corp or just extremely butthurt that you can't blow up 3 guys.
I could understand your complaint if you were part of an alliance, but making a new corp is really no biggie.
Decshield is basically free mercenaries, sandbox and all. Now you know that when you wage war there's 500 free mercenaries that you may have to deal with. |
Tetsuigablm
Lianowar Legion
0
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:13:00 -
[34] - Quote
and how exactly should i have KNOWN, about this,did you even read the post i linked? please go to the links first. 1st page
i just re read the patch notes, and no dont see anything about an INFINATE WAR with anyone, do you?
A: im reasonably certain you cant surrender,
B: i cant simply make a new corp, i dont think, it may be possible, but we live in a pos, which makes it complicated
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Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
953
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
Destination SkillQueue wrote:Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Tetsuigablm wrote:i deced a guys corp that was messing with some friends of mine, was a small 2-3 man corp, now he joins dec shield, dec shield takes the dec and mutuals it, then boots the 2-3 man corp out, they now PERMENATLY have a dec on my corp FOR FREE, a 500 man alliance Welp, good for them. You wanted a Dec and you got it. I fully support CCP's decision. You're not thinking it through. The problem isn't a bad wardeccer got more then they bargained for. That can happen even if you fix the system. The problem is that wardeccing anyone for any reason is becoming increasingly stupid and so is hiring mercs for defence, since you can always get a huge alliance to do it for free. Basicly all the goals the system tried to achieve are steadily turned to crap with the current implementation. Making decs is becoming stupid because instead of having a short war that aims at specific targets, you are increasingly getting a "mutual" forever war with an entity you have no issues with. Just to make it blatantly clear the problem is the forever part. Being in a war puts limits on what your corp can do even mechanically, so it's bad, that you can be locked to such state without you having any ability to change things. Your only way out is to make a new corp and make alt corps for wardeccing in the future. It's a stupid system, that could be fixed by simply making mutuality require a weekly reconfirmation from both sides.
They wanted a Dec and they got it. It's been this way for a decade, and is suddenly an ISSUE ? Sheesh................ |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10154
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:17:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tetsuigablm wrote:and how exactly should i have KNOWN, about this,did you even read the post i linked? By knowing how wardecs works and thus being familiar with the concept of making wars mutual.
Quote:A: im reasonably certain you cant surrender, Have you tried it?
Quote:B: i cant simply make a new corp, i dont think, it may be possible, but we live in a pos, which makes it complicated So not actually impossible. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
50
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tetsuigablm wrote:and how exactly should i have KNOWN, about this,did you even read the post i linked? please go to the links first. 1st page
i just re read the patch notes, and no dont see anything about an INFINATE WAR with anyone, do you?
A: im reasonably certain you cant surrender,
B: i cant simply make a new corp, i dont think, it may be possible, but we live in a pos, which makes it complicated
C: I, me not anyone else was engaging this corp, the others are all in the pos, don't try to make it sound like everyone was in on this, dont generalize if you dont know the spe3cifics please.
Take the POS down, make new corp, put new POS up, problem solved.
Like Tipia said, mutual wars been around for awhile.
YOu can just surrender, if the other side accepts it. Quit often a sum of isk may be required to grease the gears of diplomacy.
BTW you might want to edit out the message from teh GM, or eve may say goodbye to you. |
Wolvun
Crimson Cell
58
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:21:00 -
[38] - Quote
Can i have ur stuffs |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
1978
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
Tetsuigablm wrote:HOW IS BEING LOCKED INTO A PERMA WAR WITH A 500 MAN ALLIANCE VALID.
Why were you wardeccing a 3-man corp in the first place?
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Michael1995
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
43
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
Byyyeeeeee, have fun else where! One does not simply buy their way into Goonswarm. |
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Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility Casoff
378
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:The mechanic really shouldn't allow you to get stuck in free foreverwar with someone you weren't prepared to be in foreverwar with. Actually, that's pretty much exactly what it's meant to do. It's to ensure that people don't wantonly engage in wars because they don't know what they might be stuck with. I disagree. Eh, well, I agree being stuck in wars the aggressor initiated is a good mechanic. I'm fine with that, I like it. The problem, I think, is that this corp is stuck in a mutual war against an alliance they didn't declare war against.
I believe the idea behind the wardec system is that the aggressor can expect their opponent to make the war mutual or bring in allies. I do not believe the situation in the OP is a designed-for or desired feature of the new wardec system.
Dec shield, by the way, is (from what I know) a half-troll/half-serious alliance that exploited the 'war shedding' loophole of the old system on a large scale in an attempt to bring the loophole to CCP's attention. |
lanyaie
675
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:36:00 -
[42] - Quote
Can I have your stuff? Hay |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10154
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:38:00 -
[43] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:I believe the idea behind the wardec system is that the aggressor can expect their opponent to make the war mutual or bring in allies. I do not believe the situation in the OP is a designed-for or desired feature of the new wardec system. Sure, it's meant to do that too, but there has always been the option of getting into an alliance and bring in more people that way. The ally system was mainly there to make it easier to do it on a temporary, case-by-case basis.
Quote:Dec shield, by the way, is (from what I know) a half-troll/half-serious alliance that exploited the 'war shedding' loophole of the old system on a large scale in an attempt to bring the loophole to CCP's attention. I had one of those alliances goingGǪ made a good amount of money from it too.
What they're doing has very little to do with what the OP is experiencing though. Their business idea is to provide a drive-through shop for picking up wardecs; the OP is simply experiencing a mechanic that's been around forever.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
459
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:39:00 -
[44] - Quote
Spoiler alert - EVE's high sec game mechanics are broken. More somewhere else. They see me trolling, they hating... |
Tetsuigablm
Lianowar Legion
0
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:47:00 -
[45] - Quote
let me get this straight, so because the games war system is flawed, i should have to then re locate a pos, and all of its assets in order to end it.
Does that honestly make any sense? Making a new corp dosnt fix anything, its a way around the problem, what im asking isn't really all that difficult to comprehend, this was clearly not how it was supposed to be. i want it fixed, i honestly don't see how thats hard to understand.
The point is the war should end, like any other war, after a week. Don't make excuses for the devs here, there is no other way out, and paying someone to end the dec, well if it was working properly that wouldnt even be an issue would it. You are literally just making excuses for them, the system is flawed, end of story. |
Violanter
Shits N Giggles Domination..
1
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:54:00 -
[46] - Quote
My only bother with this is that the original entity can screw over the aggressor permanently for "little" hassle with no repercussions. The fact that they can swap their dec to an alliance and then run is somewhat broken imo. They took it to the alliance when they entered so they should keep it with them when they leave, ( not just some 1 week pittance) |
Blake Gates Heleneto
Clandestine Management Group
5
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Posted - 2012.10.27 11:58:00 -
[47] - Quote
Tetsuigablm wrote:let me get this straight, so because the games war system is flawed, i should have to then re locate a pos, and all of its assets in order to end it.
Does that honestly make any sense? Making a new corp dosnt fix anything, its a way around the problem, what im asking isn't really all that difficult to comprehend, this was clearly not how it was supposed to be. i want it fixed, i honestly don't see how thats hard to understand.
The point is the war should end, like any other war, after a week. Don't make excuses for the devs here, there is no other way out, and paying someone to end the dec, well if it was working properly that wouldnt even be an issue would it. You are literally just making excuses for them, the system is flawed, end of story.
You literally have the most basic understanding of Eve Online I think I've ever seen from a character old enough to anchor a POS. This game is harsh and unforgiving. It's the nature of the game. There are scams, extortion and many other things going on throughout the galaxy that people don't like. This sandbox effect is the EXACT way that CCP intended.
This "problem" you are experiencing has been around forever. Don't you think if it was "truly" broken, or an "exploit of game mechanics" as you call it, would have been fixed by now? Like so many other things that truly were broken or an exploit of game mechanics?
Come on, stop pissing and crying. You said 3 pages ago (maybe in the OP) that you were unsubbing and not playing Eve again. Please, do us all a favor.
OR STOP CRYING ON THE FORUMS. Your logic is flawed, end of story. |
Piugattuk
CLOROFLORFILAPLANKTONPLATES
82
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Posted - 2012.10.27 12:01:00 -
[48] - Quote
Listen, if that's what was really going on write to Dec Shield and have your friends who we're getting griefed write Dec Shield and plead your case as to why you should be set free, otherwise be careful what you ask for you may just get it. |
Solstice Project
Carebear Cadaver Productions
1955
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Posted - 2012.10.27 12:04:00 -
[49] - Quote
Soooo let me get this straight.
Your 20+ man corp decs a corp of less than 5. They shed the wardec and you come crying because you can't handle 500 people, who wouldn't even fight you all at once anyway.
*slaps your face*
You're an embarrassment !
Get the **** out !
Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
The Chronophage
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2012.10.27 12:05:00 -
[50] - Quote
Tetsuigablm wrote:let me get this straight, so because the games war system is flawed, i should have to then re locate a pos, and all of its assets in order to end it.
You're making this sound like moving a pos is such a big deal. Emergency pos moves happen in 0.0 all the time, and I could whine to CCP about it as well. HTFU. You probably arent even going to move the damn pos, you are just going to set it up again in the same place under a new corp.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10154
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Posted - 2012.10.27 12:08:00 -
[51] - Quote
Tetsuigablm wrote:let me get this straight, so because the games war system is flawed, i should have to then re locate a pos, and all of its assets in order to end it. No. You should have to relocate a POS and all corp assets because you entered into a wardec without being fully aware of the risks involved in doing so. You were careless, and this is now coming back to haunt you.
This makes very much sense from an EVE perspective.
Whether or not you feel that the consequences are out of proportion to your mistake is a different matter, but it's entirely in line with the spirit of the game.
Quote:The point is the war should end, like any other war, after a week. No, the point is that the war should end when the involved parties want it to end. Initially, this will be when the aggressor chooses not to extend it and/or accepts the surrender of the defender, but then we have this neat mutuality mechanic that lets the defender turn the tables and attempt to force the aggressor to give up first.
The point is also that there are a number of ways to get out of such a war, and by the sound of it, you've tried a total of zero of them. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Violanter
Shits N Giggles Domination..
1
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Posted - 2012.10.27 12:09:00 -
[52] - Quote
More war, not less is the way to go. Fighting is fun. |
S'Way
Bitter Vets
286
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Posted - 2012.10.27 12:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
Tetsuigablm wrote:let me get this straight, so because the games war system is flawed, i should have to then re locate a pos, and all of its assets in order to end it.. I'm guessing you're a ceo or director in your corp as you said that you declared the war on the 3 man corp. As a CEO or director it's your responsibility to know what the consequences of pushing buttons are. It's well known the war dec system has been like this for some time now.
Is the system flawed ? probably, but the error here was made by the OP in declaring a war without doing enough research into how the mechanics of such actions work.
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Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
50
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Posted - 2012.10.27 12:11:00 -
[54] - Quote
Tetsuigablm wrote:let me get this straight, so because the games war system is flawed, i should have to then re locate a pos, and all of its assets in order to end it..
You are required to move the POS not because the games war system is flawed, but because you are running away from a war.
You are not required to run away from the war, you obviously have an issue with dealing with a 500 man alliance.
This is not much different than if a 500 man alliance were to war dec you. The slight difference being that decshield probably isn't too interested in spending the time it takes to blow up your pos (provided its' a high sec pos, otherwise it's basically fair game for anyone to blow it up) |
Tetsuigablm
Lianowar Legion
0
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Posted - 2012.10.27 12:12:00 -
[55] - Quote
You have got to be kidding,i don't see how you can rationalize something like this, But fine, its your sandbox, as you put it, far be it for me to point something out that doesn't work. This isn't isn't something like a jita scam contract, or espionage, those all make sense, and you have forewarning before clicking that scam contract, by reading the contract carefully. how was i supposed to know something like this was coming ?
I apologize for not "knowing the mechanics" as you put it, but something like THIS, a PERMA FREE war, against people i never knew were even THERE, Is not "sandbox" its poor game design sorry. there was no way to know this was even POSSIBLE. why bother with a pay to dec system, if a war can be run for free indefinatly, that makes NO sense. But enough, defend the system, you will continue to do so anyway.
Ill grant your request in and leave eve, after playing on and off for 3 years, just remember why this game is so niche, you make it that way. |
Inquisitor Kitchner
Galaxy Punks Executive Outcomes
288
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Posted - 2012.10.27 12:13:00 -
[56] - Quote
OP is sure posting a lot in this thread for someone who is quitting. "If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10154
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Posted - 2012.10.27 12:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
Tetsuigablm wrote:You have got to be kidding,i don't see how you can rationalize something like this, But fine, its your sandbox, as you put it, far be it for me to point something out that doesn't work. The problem is that you haven't really pointed out anything that doesn't work. You've pointed out a number of things that seem to work largely as intended.
Again, the flaw that Dec Shield is trying to exploit isn't even something you've brought up!
Quote:This isn't isn't something like a jita scam contract, or espionage, those all make sense, and you have forewarning before clicking that scam contract, by reading the contract carefully. how was i supposed to know something like this was coming ? By knowing the wardec mechanics and understanding the risks involved. You might have been tripped up by what people have built using those mechanics GÇö that's where the whole sandbox thing comes in GÇö but again, you're not actually doing that but rather point to a mechanic that's been around for ages.
Quote:I am required to run away from it, because it wont end in 7 days like a war normally would, His point is that you're not in any way required to run away GÇö it's something you choose to do because you no longer want to deal with the situation you've found yourself in. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Solstice Project
Carebear Cadaver Productions
1956
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Posted - 2012.10.27 12:17:00 -
[58] - Quote
Tetsuigablm wrote:You have got to be kidding,i don't see how you can rationalize something like this, But fine, its your sandbox, as you put it, far be it for me to point something out that doesn't work. This isn't isn't something like a jita scam contract, or espionage, those all make sense, and you have forewarning before clicking that scam contract, by reading the contract carefully. how was i supposed to know something like this was coming ? I apologize for not "knowing the mechanics" as you put it, but something like THIS, a PERMA FREE war, against people i never knew were even THERE, Is not "sandbox" its poor game design sorry. there was no way to know this was even POSSIBLE. why bother with a pay to dec system, if a war can be run for free indefinatly, that makes NO sense. But enough, defend the system, you will continue to do so anyway. Ill grant your request in and leave eve, after playing on and off for 3 years, just remember why this game is so niche, you make it that way. Quote:You are not required to run away from the war, you obviously have an issue with dealing with a 500 man alliance. I am required to run away from it, because it wont end in 7 days like a war normally would,
Whiny little ***** ! Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Schalac
Apocalypse Reign
108
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Posted - 2012.10.27 12:17:00 -
[59] - Quote
It's funny because when this happened to the goons and half of new eden was dogpiling onto a free wardec with them, it was a glitch and immediately patched out of the game. |
Solstice Project
Carebear Cadaver Productions
1956
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Posted - 2012.10.27 12:18:00 -
[60] - Quote
Schalac wrote:It's funny because when this happened to the goons and half of new eden was dogpiling onto a free wardec with them, it was a glitch and immediately patched out of the game. Apples are exactly like oranges, especially in winter. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
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