Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
John Blackthorn
|
Posted - 2005.04.02 18:19:00 -
[31]
And just the oposite any time a defender field any reasonable amount of ships to counter a pirate he logs. So whats the differance?
|
Matrin III
|
Posted - 2005.04.02 19:04:00 -
[32]
Cool. So far we have miners whining they it wil be too easy for pvpers, and pvpers whining that it wil lbe too easy for miners. Great!
Shows that it is balanced.
|
Wild Rho
|
Posted - 2005.04.02 22:29:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 03/04/2005 12:17:24 I agree strongly with removing local from 0.0.
Miners and npcers are going to be harder to find if they move into the quieter areas of space since you don't see them on the map and they aren't visible on local.
Pilots going to have to actually invest some time in searching 0.0 for mining ops that can be attacked and ransomed/destroyed if they are well placed off the beaten track so for the most part they can get on with bashing their rocks in peace. The risk IS there but it's not the 100% certainty that everyone knows where they are that balance it, pilots are going to have to actually HUNT for targets.
For gate camping it becomes a 2 edged sword. Yes you are invisible and may get some kills. However, now you can't see if a force is coming at your from either direction, for all you know as you shoot down this lone cruiser a god-almighty fleet warps in and blows you're ship long before you can warp out. You run to an ss but how can you be certain they've moved away? If you have an alt on one of the gates watching it for you how do you know the frigat that engaged and destroyed it was acting alone or an advanced scout for a fleet? Often people seem to forget that the very systems "not solar system btw) that are designed to help people avoid gate camping also protect the gate campers themselves.
0.0 WILL seem alot more emptier without the local channel but it certainly won't lead to no pvp in 0.0. It WILL change the nature and rules of engagement in 0.0, single mega blobs won't work anymore when protecting alliance space as one player in a fast frigate could get through and then you have no idea where he went, so now you need to assign assets to patrol systems for him and protect ops and so on.
It will also open up 0.0 alot more for corps that can't mega blob to protect themselves by letting them hide out in 0.0 in the quieter areas and enjoy some of the riches that come from it.
I'm more or less going around in circles here so I'll stop but that's basically why I think removing local is a good thing for 0.0, in empire it's fine as it's a good social tool for newer players to get out and meet people but 0.0 it's should be cold, lonely, mysterious and well...scarey (sorta) with danger that could be lurking on the other side of a stargate etc.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Orb Lati
|
Posted - 2005.04.02 22:36:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Orb Lati on 02/04/2005 22:38:49 I would support no Local display only if there were no players in space update to the map. Unless the map was also nerfed all your creating is a easy gankage for pirates against the miners.
Nerfing the map as well would prob open up 0.0 for small ninja mining groups which i do not see as a bad thing.
however to compensate that nerf i would suggest an addition of a filter for the system scanner where you could turn off individual astorieds, moons and pilots for easier isolation of ships.
That way miners and pirates get the same effective tool to defend and hunt with
"We Worship Strength, because it is through strength that all other values are made possible" |
Matrin III
|
Posted - 2005.04.02 23:11:00 -
[35]
I fully agree with the above 2 posts. Finally, people with vision.
|
LNX Flocki
|
Posted - 2005.04.02 23:16:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Matrin III Cool. So far we have miners whining they it wil be too easy for pvpers, and pvpers whining that it wil lbe too easy for miners. Great!
Shows that it is balanced.
If everyone's whining it must be good If anything it'll make things more interesting in 0.0 - I'm all for it.
|
Warm0nger
|
Posted - 2005.04.02 23:56:00 -
[37]
Originally by: GoldHorn
Originally by: Matrin III
I enter a system and all 10 miners insta log.
I *want* good pvp in 0.0.
You want a good pvp with miners? Heh plenty of action in 0.0... but u need 2 have balls 2 go after pvp peps not miners.
LOL, my thought exactly. Ganking bastards are already getting an advantage with the '30 minute average pilots in space thing' in the new patch. Not only will travellers not be able to see a ganking blob they're about to run into, this whiner wants miners not to be able to see him coming either. ---------------------
Eve Spawn Grounds
|
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 01:40:00 -
[38]
Originally by: GoldHorn
Originally by: Matrin III
I enter a system and all 10 miners insta log.
I *want* good pvp in 0.0.
You want a good pvp with miners? Heh plenty of action in 0.0... but u need 2 have balls 2 go after pvp peps not miners.
PvP doesn't only mean shooting at another PvPer who wants to fight. PvP means hurting the opposition in every aspect of the game.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Matrin III
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 02:08:00 -
[39]
Quote: Ganking bastards are already getting an advantage with the '30 minute average pilots in space thing' in the new patch. Not only will travellers not be able to see a ganking blob they're about to run into, this whiner wants miners not to be able to see him coming either.
Warm0nger:
Way to be the SECOND person to totally splice things I said and take my words WAAAY out of context. Short summary of why you are wrong and obiously have a learning disorder and/or are either to lazy or too stupid to have read ther thread before posting:
1. I am not a pvper and have never opened fire or attempted to open fire or desired to open fire on another mining ship, or pvp ship for that matter.
2. Hiding local actually makes it easier for people to ninja mine in 0.0, not harder. Thats one of the reasons I want this change implemented. Yet at the same time I know I'm not suggesting a change that only suits my specific needs because this also helps pvp out. In addition, where log out tactics formerly prevailed (not fun for anyone), now using the skills the game gives us (andf the player skill genetics / study give us) will determine who kills who and who mines 100 million worth of crokite while 13 pks pass by unknowing.
3. I want the map in 0.0 to not display anyone. For the same reasons that I want local to hide all present.
4. Quit being so ignorant and lcose minded. Quit finding fault where there is none, and quit assumnig crap about peopel before even READING and PONDERING the thread.
Please, kind sir, explain your reasoning on why the suggested changes would make the world worse for miners and npcers and better for pvpers. Too hard for you?
|
TruthKeeper
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 03:35:00 -
[40]
In my opinion, anyone who enters 0.0 space should be aware that 0.0 IS NOT a safe space, is not a place where you can happily mine the rarest minerals in EVE without risk. 0.0 needs love: EVE Online is becoming more and more easy for all the carebears.....and right now goin' in 0.0 regions is meaningless: what's the point to risk your ship when you can earn easy money in safe Empire space?!?!? That's why I like the next map refresh addition (thanks CCP!) and I hope that even the local won't list members in 0.0 regions. 0.0 needs love.
|
|
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 09:38:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Juan Andalusian
You want a good pvp with miners? Heh plenty of action in 0.0... but u need 2 have balls 2 go after pvp peps not miners.
PvP doesn't only mean shooting at another PvPer who wants to fight. PvP means hurting the opposition in every aspect of the game.
Actually PvP meens player vs player and refers to mutually concentual fights, the term was first used in FPS games like counterstrike and then in deathmatch situations.
PK meens player killing and deals with a player hunting a player that does not necceserilly want to fight, this term has its origin in MUD, MUSH and similar games (that btw is the origin of MMO's).
Many people will say there is no difference, there is, its a very BIG difference :)
Today a whole new set of names have however been invented, such as gankers, pirates, hunters and a loong line of others.
Personally I prefer the two old and am a big fan of PvPer but a very reluctant PKer wether Im on the side hunting or being hunted.
|
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 09:53:00 -
[42]
The 30min delay on local will help the gankers alot while not doing much for the miner.
Considering a mining cycle takes 1 min that meens if you instantly teleport to within range of a good roid, have instalock and no NPC show upp for the full 30 min you will manage to clear 30 cycles before the mining op will be brightly litup for the PK player.
I may not have done much mining in my days playing eve however I have done enough to know that if you plan to do 0.0 mining it will take alot of time.
This will meen the PKer will know there were X players in system Y 30 min ago, if it was miners there is a very good chance they are still there.
If you remove local then the PKer will gain an unfair advantage as the miner cant keep an eye on the map to find out if a threat is aproching.
If the people in space option on the map was to be removed completely in 0.0 then you can remove local as that will place the hunter and the pray on the same foot but not just one.
|
Dianabolic
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 09:56:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Maya Rkell Player movements after EXODUS support my position, not yours...
For reasons completely seperate to what we are discussing here. EXODUS didn't change the way we gather intel.
Every PvP'er and miner I know supports this change, it will make the game more fun.
|
Dianabolic
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 10:00:00 -
[44]
Fester - if the miner don't have scouts out then they deserve everything they get. "Can't keep an eye on the map", that's exactly the reason this is a good change - the map knows all.
Now it doesn't.
About goddamn time, too.
And, fyi, we fight outnumbered 99% of the time, this hurts us as much as it hurts anyone else and we STILL support it.
|
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 11:05:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Dianabolic Fester - if the miner don't have scouts out then they deserve everything they get. "Can't keep an eye on the map", that's exactly the reason this is a good change - the map knows all.
Now it doesn't.
About goddamn time, too.
And, fyi, we fight outnumbered 99% of the time, this hurts us as much as it hurts anyone else and we STILL support it.
In the next patch it seems the map will not be allknowing, all info on the map will aparently be 30 min old.
This will meen you cant keep tabs on people on the move but you can spot stationary players.
This helps hunters as while they are on the move they will never be spottable on the map.
If they also remove local then somthing will have to be implemented to make it possible to have an early warning for solo players, possible a probe that can "guard" gates and give warning when someone activates the gate.
Say 3 types: smallest: reports that the gate is activated but nothing more. "X Gate activated"
midsize: reports that the gate is activated and mantions if its an incomming activation or outgoing. "Incomming activation at X gate" or "Outgoing activation at X gate"
biggest: reports name of player activating as well as incoming or outgoing. "Dianabolic arrived by X gate" "Fester Addams has just left via Xgate"
Lets say a probe would last a few hours, be highly visable (shows upp on ship scanner) and killable (say about as resistant as a shuttle), lets say each player can launch as many such probes as they have in skill.
For 0.0 use that would be more than enough.
After that if I choose to go mine in 0.0 and not bother to place a drone... well tough, the option is there.
|
ErrorS
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 11:38:00 -
[46]
oh, that would be very cool. "Gate activated" message.
i would love that.. ________
I'm strict Caldari
"The grass is always greener on the other side" - Maybe they're not as uber as you think?
-ErrorS |
Nero Scuro
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 11:39:00 -
[47]
I'm a little curious as to why removing local would mean an increase in gate ganking. Gate ganking doesn't require local. You just shoot any and everything that you see fly past. Since anyone who is in 0.0 has instas anyway, they'll always get past the opposing end of a gate gank (the one on the exit to a system), but will usually be caught at the gate on entering a system. Which would, obviously, mean that local wouldn't have helped them either way.
Local doesn't change gate ganking at all. What it does mean is that people don't automatically know if somebody else is in the system. Which can only be a good thing.
Remember, making the game easier for your self doesn't make it a better game. That's just being cheasy. Why not just go play freelancer in Godmode if you like always winning? =/ ---------------- Haha, stupid monkey! Now I'VE got the Oscar! Enjoy your worthless gun! |
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 11:47:00 -
[48]
Plced the probe launcher Idea on the Idea board, if you like it... or really dislike it go there and tell me and more importantly the devs why:
Linky
Hope I got the linky thingie to work correctly, its been a while since I coded that kind of stuff :)
|
SinBin
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 12:23:00 -
[49]
My problem with having no local is eve will become very boring as the only poeple your now are playing are the 1s that are in your channels.
That 15-30min local lag sounds nicers idea & still gives a big advantage to pirates & thats the only reason that anyone ask's for local removed. _______________________________________
Ill shutup the day CCP remove bookmarks |
Dukath
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 13:26:00 -
[50]
When I am mining i'd rather not have my presence announced to every alliance member who is passing through my system. The same with NPCing or doing agent missions.
Having no local would give me axtra cover for that.
|
|
LNX Flocki
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 13:27:00 -
[51]
Originally by: SinBin My problem with having no local is eve will become very boring as the only poeple your now are playing are the 1s that are in your channels.
That 15-30min local lag sounds nicers idea & still gives a big advantage to pirates & thats the only reason that anyone ask's for local removed.
It's not about removing local, it's about not showing people in the chat list unless they talk. And we're only talking about 0.0 space here. When was the last time you had a conversation with someone in 0.0 local? It doesn't happen that often, except in stations maybe but you can see people in the station list anyway ...
|
Gunship
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 14:51:00 -
[52]
Agree, there should be no easy count of local, and the new 30 minute avg, should be extended to two hours aswell.
CCP Petition! |
Damajink
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 14:54:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Maya Rkell I ADD, not NERF.
|
Matrin III
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 15:08:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Matrin III on 03/04/2005 15:12:53 Fester Addams, it is fairly obvious their you either did not read the contents of this thread before posting, or you did not understand them. Making it so 0.0 local only shows people who actually talk does NOT just make it easier for the pvpers. You say that it hurts miners as though it is fact, and the reasons you give show that you ignored what people previously stated.
As you said miners are the ones who are more stationary. The pvpers roam about. Assuming pvpers are even staring at the map and the second they see 1 tiny dot 15 jumps away in some remote section of 0.0 after 30 mins of you mining there, they still wont have the advantage. Any smart miner will will either be using probes or have a miner with him who is using probes. You will know exactly where to be scanning. The instant anyone enters the system you will know of their presence, yet they wont know where you are.
If you have ever mined in 0.0, 99% of the time you get destroyed it is by an interceptor or some other frigate classed ship. Probe launchers wont even FIT on most frigate class ships, and destryers. And on the ones it does, the pvper will have to fit CPUs in his low slots instead of damage mods or speed mods, and he will have to sacrifice a high slot for the probe launcher. This drains his CPU nearly 100%. It means he cant even fit a scrambler or a MWD, or even any good GUNS.
So this will limit pvpers to HAVING to come in groups of 2 (very annoying and much slower) with the correct configuration (1 scan ship 1 pure pvp ship) or it will force them to use cruisers, which we know have a longer lock on time and slower speed and STILL wont be able to fit many web/scramble mods / guns due to the probe launcher.
Understand? Even if a pvper goes to all the trouble of fitting probe scanners so he can warp right to you 3 mins after he enters the system, if you are intelligently using probes yourself you will know the instant he enters the system exactly where he is and what ship he is in, and he still wont know where you are, or if you are still even there (since the map updates slowly).
Get the picture?
PS: I am for removing pilot locations from the 0.0 map as well, which will help stationary people (miners/npcers) out even more.
BTW logistically and realisticly, its just NOT in most peoples nature to fly 15 jumps just becasue they see that 1 or 2 people are in a system 15+ jumps from them. Small groups of ninja miners will now be able to sneak past the lame blockades and actually mine. And to be 100% undetectable just move your location ever 30 mins or so. Somewhat annoying, but for increased stealth it may be worth it.
There are many tools and methods you will be able to use now to have the edge over pirates. Right now the only thing you can do is begin mining and then safespot / log once anyone you dont know enters local. Again, is that what you want? Is that fun? NO ONE wants that.
|
Fester Addams
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 20:08:00 -
[55]
Matrin III, I have not read all the posts, of that you are right, it however strikes me as odd that you first say the miners should have to work harder for what they make and in the same breath say the way to do this is to make it easier for players to hunt them.
Personally Im against removing local mainly cos I fairly often talk to the other people in the same system as me, it would be really sad if I could not see if there are others there that I can chat to.
Back in the day when I was far far out in 0.0 I would have some really nice conversations with some really imfamous players I would run into, I would hate to miss out on that.
The main problem I have is how do we keep the comunity and smalltalk going while at the same time not give one or the other side an unfair advantage.
If the map remains (30min delay or not) and local goes then hunters have an unfair advantage, if map is removed and local remains its the other way around, sadly nither version is any good.
If you remove both then I think 0.0 would have an influx of people as people would feel they can hide out there.
As for hunters not being able to use probe launchers to scan systems for miners... well friggs, tech II or not are not ment to be used like that, not unless you are part of a band of merry hunters who send a small ship ahead as a scout.
No matter, I have never before nor will I ever in the future bothered with who claims to own any space, if I want to go there I do, if I want to be there I will be, I stay as long as I like and do what I like because there are no rules that state Im not allowed to be there (I really liked the chats I had with some of the alliance people who claimed I was not allowed to be there... and oddly enough the alliances with the worst reputations were the easiest to get along with.)
Thus If I decide to go out to EB-3F5 to mine some ark I will, I have never bothered with pirates, hunters, miners and or alliances, as long as you are awake there is very little they can really do.
btw, a few posts back I linked to a gate probe Idea, what did you think about that one?
|
Warm0nger
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 20:56:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Warm0nger on 03/04/2005 23:05:57 Blah blah blah..
Removing ppl from local will kill 0.0 mining. It's not like ppl mine just anywhere. There are certain systems where the mining is profitable, and those will be the targets of ganking parties.
So, besides the fact that a miner can't see a gang of 15 ppl warp into their system, with the patch, he won't see them coming down the pipe either.
---------------------
Eve Spawn Grounds
|
TruthKeeper
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 23:00:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Warm0nger Removing ppl from local will kill 0.0 mining
Incorrect, in my opinion. Removing people from local will make 0.0 mining more difficult for sure, but also more profitable: at start fewer miners will be able to extract and sell the rarest minerals, prices will go up and those who dare to take the risk to mine in 0.0 will gain great rewards. This will also lead to force miners to become more skilled and perhaps they will need to hire a PvP squad to protect them in the dangerous 0.0 regions. Only with these changes the 0.0 will return to have a true role in EVE Online: 0.0 will become more important, populated and interesting new game dynamics will take place.
|
Danton Marcellus
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 23:05:00 -
[58]
How is larger alliances of riskmanaging miners and their nemesis the allfragging ebonix interesting dynamics?
The 30 minute delay is just another bandaid, sure we can have a scout at every gate en route to save our asses mining in 0.0 but that won't buy us more time actually mining, just send people logging a wee bit earlier.
Convert Stations
|
YuuKnow
|
Posted - 2005.04.03 23:32:00 -
[59]
Edited by: YuuKnow on 04/04/2005 00:22:33
hard thing about this issue is that it would be hard to "test" on test server. Aren't really enough people on and people don't go on test server to "hunt" other people anyway. Seems like if it takes effect, it'll have to be ingame before you could really get a feel for its implications. in all honesty, i have never lost a ship in 0.0 in part do to local, spotting them and running before they can locate me.
Local is like hunting people in broad daylight. No local is like hunting at midnight. Which is the best is.....?
I still think it should be tested in a region or 2 for feedback. Might, just might, be a spark that gets people back interested in 0.0.
|
Matrin III
|
Posted - 2005.04.04 00:26:00 -
[60]
If you have not noticed, I am also for taking the "players in space" in 0.0 off the map too.
Are we agreed that this would be both fun and fair for both sets of playstyles?
Concerning smalltalk in 0.0, you will still be able to chat with peopel in local, only you and they wont show up unless you type. If you really want to fly around 0.0 looking for pirates / people to chat with then you are free to say "Hello, anyone there?" when you enter a system.
I think in general, people do not understand what 0.0 is supposed to be. It is supposed to be the area in EVE where you can potentially make the most money and find the best equipment in the least amount of time. The risk should be great. Allow the game mechanics to be more realistic and more Intriguing and dynamic business doing / pirating will develop. More chance for being sneaky, more chance of surprise, more chance for being the #1 evasive and clever miner, more chance for true pirating to come back, you know.. where they actually scramble you and make you pay xxx isk. Had it happen to me before and eventhough I was on the "losing" end I quite enjoyed it. It opened my eyes to just how rich and dynamic a game EVE is.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |