Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Aslaug Torgersen
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 23:58:00 -
[121] - Quote
Where is a Taggart [TTI] when you need one... |
Torvin Yulus
State War Academy Caldari State
84
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 02:49:00 -
[122] - Quote
the hatred is stroung but we can beat it miners
the miners and incursion runners will unite and we willa ppoint our own fcs who won't yell at us and we will fit our ships how we like instead of the mittani tellking us what to fly and we will win.
quake in fear gewns im a pubby and im proud |
Freakdevil
Aliastra Gallente Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 03:07:00 -
[123] - Quote
Torvin Yulus wrote:the hatred is stroung but we can beat it miners
the miners and incursion runners will unite and we willa ppoint our own fcs who won't yell at us and we will fit our ships how we like instead of the mittani tellking us what to fly and we will win.
quake in fear gewns
I wish you luck and suggest you deploy as many miners as you can. Leet miner fleets with FCs screaming on comms.
You know somebody in another thread suggested a space anchor module to prevent a ship from moving. That stupid idea is still better than yours.
You guys are better than my meds. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
128
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 06:38:00 -
[124] - Quote
Noriko Satomi wrote: My turn: Hahahahaha. So you're saying that the Soviet Union, Eastern European nations under communism, Cuba, and 1970s China are all paragons of happiness? Or if you prefer socialism, and not actual communism, that Spain, Greece, Italy and France are paragons of happiness today? (Granted they have significantly more fantastic food than I'm used to, but I don't think that's attributable to socialism.)
I think the mods have made it quite clear that this subforum is not for hashing out real world politics. My own opinion is that real world politics isn't as real as most people think. That what people call communism, socialism, capitalism, democracy, and freedom are often just myths. More often then not, they can best be described as jingoism.
Quote: I was under the impression that you replaced ships expended in combat in the pursuit of goals compatible with the profitability of your coalition. Or do you just give out free ships, which I'd agree would have a good analogy with welfare? I tend to view CFC in-game as a simple monopoly, which you achieved through unconstrained capitalistic practices, including market manipulation. And before you put words in my mouth I'm not arguing that unconstrained capitalism is good either (see modern China).
Some ships (frigates and destroyers) are just free. We have an in-game chat channel where you state what race of ship you can fly and you'll get a contract with a few suitable ships.
And we have 2 tiers of reimbursement. One is the standard strategic reimbursement for the standard sov warfare stuff. The other is "peacetime", which covers things like goofing off in Syndicate.
We also have a few more specialized reimbursement and distribution systems for specialized squads.
Nothing about our "monopoly" was attained through capitalist means. Tech moons were often taken by straight up warfare. Killing people and taking their stuff. Not really doctrinaire capitalism, although I think it can be argued that most practical capitalism is really theft.
Quote: If I buy your analogy of CFC as government, then the tech moon monopoly and the wealth that comes with it have more in common with some middle eastern despotisms than socialism. What happens if you lose your monopoly? Granted, for CFC that's probably not going to have as big an impact as it might have given your external SA community. But would you lose players?
Your argument is that "free stuff is great!" My argument is that that stuff isn't really free, and freedom is more important. This extends to the Eve marketplace.
Again, I don't want to run afoul of forum rules, but I'll briefly use oil production as an example because I think that is what you are getting at mentioning middle eastern despots. Virtually all oil extraction in the world is either done by plain old state owned companies, or by nominally private companies that are granted monopolies by a government and are often so intertwined with government as to be indistinguishable from state owned corporations.
I would agree that part of my argument is that free stuff is great. The "stuff isn't really free" comment is dumb because this debate is around socialism/communism, which are economic systems specifically built on the idea of putting capital and the means of production and the fruits those into the hands of the common person. Of course the stuff doesn't appear out of thin air. It is paid for with tech moons and taxes. But rather than the proceeds from those going to the pockets of the "owners", as capitalism would dictate, they are used to provide for the basic needs of our members.
And not only does the stuff appear free of charge, or at least easily replaced, it also gives us more freedom. It frees us from having to slowly grind our way into low level ships. It keeps us from being forced to grind every time we lose a ship in what are supposed to be fun group activities. And any of us that want to do a grind are free to do so. It gives us more opportunity to try things and find what we really enjoy doing and that we have the means to do it well.
So maybe we have to give up the freedom to gouge our members for equipment, or stab them in the back to increase our private tech incomes. Personally, I don't miss the freedom to be exploited. And I don't see any benefit in the freedom to exploit our friends, teammates or coworkers. |
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion Of Mordor
61
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 09:47:00 -
[125] - Quote
High sec is a free market capitalistic zone where the invisible hand of capitalism is free and unfettered. What I see in goon-communism is a slow rot in null sec of zombie serfs slithering through the stars munching on the brains of the last remaining free player alliances. This has to stop before all EVE is consumed by this madness. |
Solstice Project
Carebear Cadaver Productions
1992
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 09:52:00 -
[126] - Quote
I blew up a hauler with large rigs and salvage in cargo, both dropped, worth 100 Million ISK ! I screamed FREE LOOT AT THE EYSTUR GATE and somebody came and took it.
He even shared a bit with me, which i believe was nice, because i don't give a crap about it.
Anyway, communism.
Made by the people, for the people ... am i doing it right ? Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
128
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 19:06:00 -
[127] - Quote
Merovee wrote: High sec is a free market capitalistic zone where the invisible hand of capitalism is free and unfettered. What I see in goon-communism is a slow rot in null sec of zombie serfs slithering through the stars munching on the brains of the last remaining free player alliances. This has to stop before all EVE is consumed by this madness.
Typical slander.
In a way, I love it, because it means we are doing our job, You can't make an omelet without killing a few capsuleers.
But I think the players of Eve online could learn something from us. Our economic system allows us more fun and more freedom and creates news worthy content for what is otherwise another boring grindy RPG.
|
Dar Manic
Republic University Minmatar Republic
15
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 19:11:00 -
[128] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Merovee wrote: High sec is a free market capitalistic zone where the invisible hand of capitalism is free and unfettered. What I see in goon-communism is a slow rot in null sec of zombie serfs slithering through the stars munching on the brains of the last remaining free player alliances. This has to stop before all EVE is consumed by this madness. Typical slander. In a way, I love it, because it means we are doing our job, You can't make an omelet without killing a few capsuleers. But I think the players of Eve online could learn something from us. Our economic system allows us more fun and more freedom and creates news worthy content for what is otherwise another boring grindy RPG.
So why the changes? Your post seems to indicate Eve is ok. Adapting is playing the game as is.. whining is screaming adapt or die while fighting loudly for lots of changes!! :) Adapt or die... I love it when people using that phrase are loudly advocating great changes in the game!-á It's not adapting if you are crying for change, it's called whining.-á :) |
Proteus Maximus
Rusty Knickers Malicious Intent Gentleman's Club
123
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 19:27:00 -
[129] - Quote
OP and his genetic line should be wiped from the earth. The war on stupid needs to start some where. Thats is communism. If Goons were around when God said, "Let there be light" they'd have called the light gay, and plunged the universe back into darkness by squatting their nutsacks over it. |
Den Arius
Forestry Commision The Grizzly Bears
13
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 19:27:00 -
[130] - Quote
Goons are capitalists at heard. Remember the ice drama a few months ago - market manipulation is something done to damage and exploit the working peoples. Inside of their internal forums, they have an entire section titled "EVE - Capitalism" - inside this section there are forums such as "Home Economics". Goon communism is merely a public identity to deceive the real working capsuleers. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75231886/Untitled-6.gif ----- Proud supporter of James 315's New Order of High Sec | Shareholder and Agent -----á |
|
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
128
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 19:52:00 -
[131] - Quote
Den Arius wrote:Goons are capitalists at heard. Remember the ice drama a few months ago - market manipulation is something done to damage and exploit the working peoples. Inside of their internal forums, they have an entire section titled "EVE - Capitalism" - inside this section there are forums such as "Home Economics". Goon communism is merely a public identity to deceive the real working capsuleers. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75231886/Untitled-6.gif
We do ruthlessly exploit capitalist ideas on those outside of our alliance.
We'll manipulate markets for our gain, but only if it screws over non-goons. For us, capitalism is like the weapons you put on a ship. It is only used to destroy non-goons for the benefit of goons.
You should have got some screen shots of inside some of those forums. You'll find them packed with goods and services at reasonable prices for goons, and ways to squeeze every last drop of isk from anything that isn't a goon.
Seriously try to find any instance where we have used capitalist principles in a way that wasn't ultimately used to harvest tears. At the end of the day, we are communists to ourselves because it creates a better environment to build and maintain one of the most powerful alliances in all of Eve. We foster capitalism outside our alliance because it creates division, alienation, exploitation and tears. We have no serious threats so long as the rest of the players are stabbing each other in the backs over scraps. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
128
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 19:54:00 -
[132] - Quote
Dar Manic wrote: So why the changes? Your post seems to indicate Eve is ok. Adapting is playing the game as is.. whining is screaming adapt or die while fighting loudly for lots of changes!! :)
Sorry, but I read this 4 times and still can't really parse it. Could you put this in some context? |
Desimus Maximus
State Protectorate Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 19:55:00 -
[133] - Quote
In other words, you want to end the game...
Do you have any idea how many players play EvE solely for the challenges and fun of the market simulation?
This is not the best suggestion... |
Den Arius
Forestry Commision The Grizzly Bears
14
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 19:58:00 -
[134] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Den Arius wrote:Goons are capitalists at heard. Remember the ice drama a few months ago - market manipulation is something done to damage and exploit the working peoples. Inside of their internal forums, they have an entire section titled "EVE - Capitalism" - inside this section there are forums such as "Home Economics". Goon communism is merely a public identity to deceive the real working capsuleers. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75231886/Untitled-6.gif We do ruthlessly exploit capitalist ideas on those outside of our alliance. We'll manipulate markets for our gain, but only if it screws over non-goons. For us, capitalism is like the weapons you put on a ship. It is only used to destroy non-goons for the benefit of goons. You should have got some screen shots of inside some of those forums. You'll find them packed with goods and services at reasonable prices for goons, and ways to squeeze every last drop of isk from anything that isn't a goon. Seriously try to find any instance where we have used capitalist principles in a way that wasn't ultimately used to harvest tears. At the end of the day, we are communists to ourselves because it creates a better environment to build and maintain one of the most powerful alliances in all of Eve. We foster capitalism outside our alliance because it creates division, alienation, exploitation and tears. We have no serious threats so long as the rest of the players are stabbing each other in the backs over scraps.
The three pillars of Goon Capitalism:
1) Bribes - getting most basic things done requires a bribe: getting a title, getting an alt corp, getting a pos, being able to moon-mine. Bribing is required to do things. Full stop. Period.
2) Loans - Goons are actively loaning to eachother with interest. Demanding things like a collateral as well - this is a very capitalist idea which implies the ownership of private property.
3) Shares - Goons are selling shares of their corporation. This is the essentially the privatization (capitalization) of the entire corporation. ----- Proud supporter of James 315's New Order of High Sec | Shareholder and Agent -----á |
Desimus Maximus
State Protectorate Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 20:01:00 -
[135] - Quote
Wouldn't it still involve players selling their stuff to the players offering the most money or at a cost that the seller is happy with selling the product?
It's still a free-market, just one that will make it a full weeks work just to find mods to fit a ship that took you 3 days to find at a reasonable price... |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
435
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 20:06:00 -
[136] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Dar Manic wrote: So why the changes? Your post seems to indicate Eve is ok. Adapting is playing the game as is.. whining is screaming adapt or die while fighting loudly for lots of changes!! :)
Sorry, but I read this 4 times and still can't really parse it. Could you put this in some context? Thought I was the only one that read that and felt like my brain split in two.
We need a translate button. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
128
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 20:21:00 -
[137] - Quote
Desimus Maximus wrote:Wouldn't it still involve players selling their stuff to the players offering the most money or at a cost that the seller is happy with selling the product?
It's still a free-market, just one that will make it a full weeks work just to find mods to fit a ship that took you 3 days to find at a reasonable price...
First off, markets are not unique to capitalism. Lots of economic systems have markets. Capitalism is mostly defined in terms of ownership. If we were capitalist then our corporate and alliance level income would be used to benefit the directors and shareholders rather than the line members.
Second, we don't have a free market. It is manipulated by reimbursement payouts and overt efforts at creating price ceilings. We also have a website that tracks prices in our market hubs and flags items that have high margins and/or low stocks. Also, people found manipulating our markets to get higher profits are kicked out of the alliance. This extends to entire corporations if they are found to be selling strategic assets to our enemies.
So we do engage in market trading, but their is a very visible hand slapping down exploitative behavior. |
Dar Manic
Republic University Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 21:24:00 -
[138] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Dar Manic wrote: So why the changes? Your post seems to indicate Eve is ok. Adapting is playing the game as is.. whining is screaming adapt or die while fighting loudly for lots of changes!! :)
Sorry, but I read this 4 times and still can't really parse it. Could you put this in some context? Thought I was the only one that read that and felt like my brain split in two. We need a translate button.
Not that hard really.
1)People come on forums 2)Same people rant about changes that need to be made to save Eve 3)Same people from 1 and 2 tell everyone else (call them carebears first) adapt or die.
My sig is saying this: when you start advocating major game changes (not minor changes), you are not adapting. You are whining.
Isn't really that hard to understand actually. It's poking fun at the people who are being very hypocritical but probably wouldn't recognize it or admit it. Adapt or die... I love it when people using that phrase are loudly advocating great changes in the game!-á It's not adapting if you are crying for change, it's called whining.-á :) |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
439
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 21:32:00 -
[139] - Quote
Dar Manic wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Dar Manic wrote: So why the changes? Your post seems to indicate Eve is ok. Adapting is playing the game as is.. whining is screaming adapt or die while fighting loudly for lots of changes!! :)
Sorry, but I read this 4 times and still can't really parse it. Could you put this in some context? Thought I was the only one that read that and felt like my brain split in two. We need a translate button. Not that hard really. 1)People come on forums 2)Same people rant about changes that need to be made to save Eve 3)Same people from 1 and 2 tell everyone else (call them carebears first) adapt or die. My sig is saying this: when you start advocating major game changes (not minor changes), you are not adapting. You are whining. Isn't really that hard to understand actually. It's poking fun at the people who are being very hypocritical but probably wouldn't recognize it or admit it. That made a lot more sense.
I agree. No change should be "drastic" they should be thought out and implimented in a way that doesn't adversely effect other aspects or parts of the game. Even when a drastic change is good it tends to alienate people. We're all inherently weary of change, some of us just aren't willing to admit it.
I thought the OP was just joking around in the same way I'm just joking when I make my communist high sec rants, it's still a horrible idea though. Some people really do like to spend their time spamming a trade chanell to sell stuff, but I like to think that most of use would prefer to put our stuff on a market and then BS on a forum while it actually sells.
And I stand by my assertion that high sec industry is the most communistic area of the game. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
128
|
Posted - 2012.11.01 22:38:00 -
[140] - Quote
Dar Manic wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Dar Manic wrote: So why the changes? Your post seems to indicate Eve is ok. Adapting is playing the game as is.. whining is screaming adapt or die while fighting loudly for lots of changes!! :)
Sorry, but I read this 4 times and still can't really parse it. Could you put this in some context? Thought I was the only one that read that and felt like my brain split in two. We need a translate button. Not that hard really. 1)People come on forums 2)Same people rant about changes that need to be made to save Eve 3)Same people from 1 and 2 tell everyone else (call them carebears first) adapt or die. My sig is saying this: when you start advocating major game changes (not minor changes), you are not adapting. You are whining. Isn't really that hard to understand actually. It's poking fun at the people who are being very hypocritical but probably wouldn't recognize it or admit it.
Still sort of confused, and maybe you meant to quote some one else.
Everything I have been talking about is stuff that can be done now within the existing game mechanics. We do it, and didn't need to whine at CCP to make is possible.
And with regards to the OP's complaint about miner bumping, the miners could just join one big alliance and operate as a sort of trade union. Nothing is really stopping them accept their own greed and primitive notions of "freedom". |
|
Dar Manic
Republic University Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 15:56:00 -
[141] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Dar Manic wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Dar Manic wrote: So why the changes? Your post seems to indicate Eve is ok. Adapting is playing the game as is.. whining is screaming adapt or die while fighting loudly for lots of changes!! :)
Sorry, but I read this 4 times and still can't really parse it. Could you put this in some context? Thought I was the only one that read that and felt like my brain split in two. We need a translate button. Not that hard really. 1)People come on forums 2)Same people rant about changes that need to be made to save Eve 3)Same people from 1 and 2 tell everyone else (call them carebears first) adapt or die. My sig is saying this: when you start advocating major game changes (not minor changes), you are not adapting. You are whining. Isn't really that hard to understand actually. It's poking fun at the people who are being very hypocritical but probably wouldn't recognize it or admit it. Still sort of confused, and maybe you meant to quote some one else. Everything I have been talking about is stuff that can be done now within the existing game mechanics. We do it, and didn't need to whine at CCP to make is possible. And with regards to the OP's complaint about miner bumping, the miners could just join one big alliance and operate as a sort of trade union. Nothing is really stopping them accept their own greed and primitive notions of "freedom".
I wasn't quoting anyone. It was a poke at the hypocritical posters in GD. Nothing more, nothing less. Not aimed at a specific person.
I just don't understand null sec players.
Please note: Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up.-á Thank you. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
138
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 18:55:00 -
[142] - Quote
Den Arius wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Den Arius wrote:Goons are capitalists at heard. Remember the ice drama a few months ago - market manipulation is something done to damage and exploit the working peoples. Inside of their internal forums, they have an entire section titled "EVE - Capitalism" - inside this section there are forums such as "Home Economics". Goon communism is merely a public identity to deceive the real working capsuleers. https://dl.dropbox.com/u/75231886/Untitled-6.gif We do ruthlessly exploit capitalist ideas on those outside of our alliance. We'll manipulate markets for our gain, but only if it screws over non-goons. For us, capitalism is like the weapons you put on a ship. It is only used to destroy non-goons for the benefit of goons. You should have got some screen shots of inside some of those forums. You'll find them packed with goods and services at reasonable prices for goons, and ways to squeeze every last drop of isk from anything that isn't a goon. Seriously try to find any instance where we have used capitalist principles in a way that wasn't ultimately used to harvest tears. At the end of the day, we are communists to ourselves because it creates a better environment to build and maintain one of the most powerful alliances in all of Eve. We foster capitalism outside our alliance because it creates division, alienation, exploitation and tears. We have no serious threats so long as the rest of the players are stabbing each other in the backs over scraps. The three pillars of Goon Capitalism: 1) Bribes - getting most basic things done requires a bribe: getting a title, getting an alt corp, getting a pos, being able to moon-mine. Bribing is required to do things. Full stop. Period. 2) Loans - Goons are actively loaning to eachother with interest. Demanding things like a collateral as well - this is a very capitalist idea which implies the ownership of private property. 3) Shares - Goons are selling shares of their corporation. This is the essentially the privatization (capitalization) of the entire corporation.
1) What do you mean by "bribes"? Buying avatars and custom titles for people? The Scotch Fund? A lot of that has more to do with goon culture than with anything capitalist. Pretty much every government in history, regardless of economic system, has had bribes/fees are various sorts.
2) We do allow members to loan isk and assets to each other, but it is heavily regulated. Only enforceable if spelled out properly in the correct forum. So yah, that is the one subforum that specifically states "Capitalism ITT" but it comes with the Eve equivalent of government regulation.
3) Member corps can do what ever with their shares. But I doubt you have any meaningful shares in anything GSF.
So your 3 pillars are more like part of 1. Yah, we have a regulated loan market. But how does that balance out with free frigates and destroyers, free books and implants, a massive social insurance program for ship reimbursement, nationalized resource extraction and higher taxes than NPC corps.
We are definitely a mixed economy and a I hate "no true Scotsman" style debates. But the economics systems that make us unique, and give us such an edge over our competition, are undeniably from the left end of the political/economic spectrum. We rely a lot more on our socialism and welfare system than we do on the loans subforum. Our strategic reimbursement keeps people in the sov fights. Our peacetime reimbursement keeps our members subscribed when their is nothing strategic to do. Our free stuff lets newbees try and fail and try again without going broke. We even have "welfare" in the form of free financial advice with shared access to our own market databases.
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
489
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 19:16:00 -
[143] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: 1) What do you mean by "bribes"? Buying avatars and custom titles for people? The Scotch Fund? A lot of that has more to do with goon culture than with anything capitalist. Pretty much every government in history, regardless of economic system, has had bribes/fees are various sorts.
2) We do allow members to loan isk and assets to each other, but it is heavily regulated. Only enforceable if spelled out properly in the correct forum. So yah, that is the one subforum that specifically states "Capitalism ITT" but it comes with the Eve equivalent of government regulation.
3) Member corps can do what ever with their shares. But I doubt you have any meaningful shares in anything GSF.
So your 3 pillars are more like part of 1. Yah, we have a regulated loan market. But how does that balance out with free frigates and destroyers, free books and implants, a massive social insurance program for ship reimbursement, nationalized resource extraction and higher taxes than NPC corps.
We are definitely a mixed economy and a I hate "no true Scotsman" style debates. But the economics systems that make us unique, and give us such an edge over our competition, are undeniably from the left end of the political/economic spectrum. We rely a lot more on our socialism and welfare system than we do on the loans subforum. Our strategic reimbursement keeps people in the sov fights. Our peacetime reimbursement keeps our members subscribed when their is nothing strategic to do. Our free stuff lets newbees try and fail and try again without going broke. We even have "welfare" in the form of free financial advice with shared access to our own market databases.
A socialist system wouldn't explicity deny the ability to "loan", and capitalism isn't the only economic system that allows for loaning.
Once upon a time it was considered unethical to enforce interest on a loan. In fact, it wasn't until fairly recently that it become legal for banks to charge interest on loans in many countries.
There is no single socialist ideal; socialism is extremely vaired in how it's governed and fucntions. I would assumed that in a socialist system the loaning of money would be regulated to minimize the amount of intrest one can charge on a loan, to prevent loaning money from becoming stricly a beneficial, and privatized act designed to make select individuals wealthy without benefiting the rest of society as a whole.
For example. In a socialist system if I wanted to produce something, I could borrow the money from the governement, or whatever institution that the government or more importantly the people deem acceptable. That loan would be used to build a business, which would hire people, who would in turn not just work for the company but can also "own" a part of the company, otherwise known as a cooperative. Inerestingly, in our own real world economy, the business that were effected least by the recession and continued to show growth and profit were those that used a cooperative model.
Paraphrased as: No economy can get around the need to issue loans, and the regulating of loaning money so that everyone is able to borrow would be more socialist than capitalist.
It's more about the intent, and less about the act itself.
So yeah, even our loaning is socialist by nature.
PS: The fact that ISK is money and not currency allows for socialism to exist in EVE as well. You can't have a select group deciding what the value of something is that no one has any ownership of. You can't have ownership of currency, but you can with money. |
Lugia3
Shydow Imperium
44
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 19:36:00 -
[144] - Quote
Can we just let this thread die already? Holeysheet1 for CSNM https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=168477&find=unread |
Dar Manic
Republic University Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 19:38:00 -
[145] - Quote
Lugia3 wrote:Can we just let this thread die already?
Agreed. They've defined both socialism and communism in ways that don't fit anyway. I just don't understand null sec players.
Please note: Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up.-á Thank you. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
138
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 19:50:00 -
[146] - Quote
Dar Manic wrote:Lugia3 wrote:Can we just let this thread die already? Agreed. They've defined both socialism and communism in ways that don't fit anyway.
What is more tiring is the no true Scotsman defense that people keep throwing up. To many people have been brain washed into the idea that having social services is bad for society. Our little experiment in socialism in the Eve sandbox is a resounding success. |
Dar Manic
Republic University Minmatar Republic
32
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 19:51:00 -
[147] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Dar Manic wrote:Lugia3 wrote:Can we just let this thread die already? Agreed. They've defined both socialism and communism in ways that don't fit anyway. What is more tiring is the no true Scotsman defense that people keep throwing up. To many people have been brain washed into the idea that having social services is bad for society. Our little experiment in socialism in the Eve sandbox is a resounding success.
We don't have socialism inherent in EVE. You may have in your Alliance/Corp but we don't have socialism inherent in the game of EVE. I just don't understand null sec players.
Please note: Anytime I use the phrase PvP in a post, I'm talking about shooting/combat/killing things/blowing things up.-á Thank you. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
489
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 19:52:00 -
[148] - Quote
Dar Manic wrote:Lugia3 wrote:Can we just let this thread die already? Agreed. They've defined both socialism and communism in ways that don't fit anyway.
Fact, There is no single definition of socialism. Not as an economic theory, nor as a governmental one.
That's not an opinion, it is a fact. It is not possible to sum up socialist with a single ideal or definition. Group ownership and equality are only the basis upon wich the rest of a socialist system are founded upon.
Loaning at high interest rates, by privatized banks is capitalism, and socialism says nothing about the ability of a group to offer loans. Only that the loan have some benefit to society as a whole, and isn't in place for the benefit of a single person or entity that isn't working for the benefit of whole.
Socialism means many different things to many different people, and can lead to a variety of sytems of government and economies in the same way that democracy can. In fact socialism doesn't mean no democracy, because democracy itself is a socialist act. A goernement for the people, by the people is a VERY socialist idea.
That is why the GSF can look like a very capitalist alliance, but actually be socialist in nature. It's more abut the end results and less about a singular activity. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
489
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 19:54:00 -
[149] - Quote
Dar Manic wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:Dar Manic wrote:Lugia3 wrote:Can we just let this thread die already? Agreed. They've defined both socialism and communism in ways that don't fit anyway. What is more tiring is the no true Scotsman defense that people keep throwing up. To many people have been brain washed into the idea that having social services is bad for society. Our little experiment in socialism in the Eve sandbox is a resounding success. We don't have socialism inherent in EVE. You may have in your Alliance/Corp but we don't have socialism inherent in the game of EVE. He's not saying that.
He's talking about the GSF; not EVE as a whole. You're makign an arguement against something that he's not argueing. I'm assuming that's a part of what he means by scotsman defense. |
Opertone
Aurora Empire Fuzzy Nut Attack Squirrels
187
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 19:58:00 -
[150] - Quote
you miners are mindless robots with fine written scripts. You are no more than asset deprived slave-like, chained to the belt ants.
And the builders, they are unlike you rich and powerful, they are capitalist pigs that exploit your work force. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |