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Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1415
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Posted - 2012.10.30 20:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/10/faction-warfare-fixing-minmataramarr.html
One of the longstanding problems with the Minmatar/Amarr warzone is the geography. The Amarr warzone (Devoid and The Bleak Lands) is quick and simple to traverse. It's very circular in nature with multiple paths between systems available. The Minmatar warzone (Heimatar and Metropolis), other than the Dal-Amamake-Auga-Siseide loop, consists of a single pipe. The only access to the majority of the warzone, through a single chokepoint at Hofjaldgund. A number of cul-de-sacs from this pipe. It's a very difficult section of the warzone to attack, while being exceptionally easy for the Minmatar to defend. Other than the occasional roam, the Amarr generally ignore the majority of the Minmatar warzone.
The following map is the current state of the Minmatar-Amarr warzone geography.
IMAGE: http://i.imgur.com/Kj57r.png
The Minmatar have more systems under their control by default. I'm not overly concerned about this particular inequity. The larger problem is the geography itself. The difficulty of waging war within the Minmatar regions versus the Amarr regions.
What needs to be accomplished is broadening the Minmatar warzone, creating more stargate connections to allow for multiple points of ingress (or egress, as the case may be) into Metropolis in particular. This eliminates Hofjaldgund as a chokepoint, and opens up Minmatar systems to same level of access as systems in the Amarr regions.
I've added four new systems connections in the map below, coloured green.
IMAGE: http://i.imgur.com/xENQi.png
Now, I don't suggest that this is the solution. It's a possible solution, but may have problems of its own. I do offer it up as a starting point of discussion.
Apparently CCP approached Hans, back at the CSM Summit, with questions about the warzone, what might be done to fix it. They were more than willing to look at ways to fix the geography. Hans' response, according to the Hans Visits Fweddit discussion, was to ignore the request, because no Amarr had come to him specifically to discuss the issue or offer up changes that might work.
Hans wonders why he's called out for his Minmatar bias at times. He's stated that he himself knows the Minmatar-Amarr geography to be problematic, but he wasn't about to offer up any solutions of his own accord. The Amarr were going to have to come to him first. What an amazing representative we elected. Why should he move forward on the issue alone, or make public appeals to the Amarr about the geography problems? He's Minmatar, the warzone inequities are to his side's advantage, after all. So, he was going to wait for the Amarr themselves to bring it up, which they never did. (I doubt any Amarr even knew it was an issue that CCP had placed upon the table, something they were willing to devote resources to fixing.) I hope that it isn't too late to fix the issue, given Hans dropping the ball in this regard.
So, before it's too late. Let's discuss the warzone. Maybe this is something that could get done for Retribution 1.2 or 1.3. Let's see if we can not push CCP towards making changes, let's as a community succeed where Hans has failed. Caldari Militia |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
349
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 21:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
TL:DR. I HATE HANS ! Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
311
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Posted - 2012.10.30 21:05:00 -
[3] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:TL:DR. I HATE HANS !
No. 'tis
TL;DR: I hate Eszur
ASIDE: I hate Hans |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1415
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Posted - 2012.10.30 21:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:TL:DR. I HATE HANS ! Are you his White Knight? :)
The warzone geography is borked. Hans had an opportunity to bring the issue to public discussion, but chose not too. CCP was willing to look at the geography, invest resources into "fixing" the problems. Even though Hans knew there were problems with the map, he chose to pretend there were no problems until the Amarr came to him specifically on the issue. That's just bad representation.
Caldari Militia |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1076
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 21:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't know if this is just me... but when I read something written by Poetic I can't help but hear an uptight, shrill little girl who has been starved of attention.
Instead of complaining about the war zone take it by using that 20+ man Blackbird and Griffin Fweddit fleet (instead of spamming local). Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
350
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 21:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
No. I'm just a white hat wizard who fights the onslaught of my enemy who tend to be black hat; Caldari.
Trolling aside, you would gain more credibility if your blog entries didn't contain so much vitriol towards Hans or Susan. If you want to write with credibility, then do so but avoid the constant rhetoric that only results in polarizing both sides. You have solid creative writing skills but you waste so much of it with this passive aggressive anger you have towards two people who once took you in when you were just a pvp noob.
PS- You need to change your tagline. You're back in Amarr militia....again Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1415
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 21:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:Trolling aside, you would gain more credibility if your blog entries didn't contain so much vitriol towards Hans or Susan. If you want to write with credibility, then do so but avoid the constant rhetoric that only results in polarizing both sides. You have solid creative writing skills but you waste so much of it with this passive aggressive anger you have towards two people who once took you in when you were just a pvp noob. Susan? I don't talk about her that often. I mostly just mock her, because it's fun. (She had nothing to do with my joining AUTOZ.)
Hans. He's failing as an FW representative. Plain and simple. He works hard. No doubt. But only on issues he cherry-picks. And often on the wrong fights. Dude is more politician than advocate.
But I don't hate Hans. Mostly disappointed. And wishing we had a representative with more backbone.
Caldari Militia |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
350
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 21:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Do you intend to run for CSM 8? Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1415
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 21:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:Do you intend to run for CSM 8? I doubt it.
The current plan is the throw up another viable FW candidate, if Hans decides to run again. Split the vote. The point to keep Hans out of CSM8, if possible. There'll be no FW focus next year anyhow, so no real need to have Hans there.
My hope is that Goonswarm takes the chair next year, returning backbone to the CSM. It is in zero supply this year.
Anyhow, this is an Amarr/Minnie warzone discussion. And you're Gallente. Amarr Militia |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
622
|
Posted - 2012.10.30 22:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
Isn't minmatar going to get a sizable advantage due to having more temperate planets in their war zone?
If not then I don't really mind the map too much. Give us way to avoid the lame minmatar gate camp in eszure and the problem is solved. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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kraiklyn Asatru
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
20
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Posted - 2012.10.30 22:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Were you always like this Poetic??
Also see Pinky Feldmans suggestions. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
622
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 00:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:No. I'm just a white hat wizard who fights the onslaught of my enemy who tend to be black hat; Caldari.
Trolling aside, you would gain more credibility if your blog entries didn't contain so much vitriol towards Hans or Susan. If you want to write with credibility, then do so but avoid the constant rhetoric that only results in polarizing both sides. You have solid creative writing skills but you waste so much of it with this passive aggressive anger you have towards two people who once took you in when you were just a pvp noob.
PS- You need to change your tagline. You're back in Amarr militia....again
Susan pretty much admits she is biased.
The problem is hans and her are like a package deal. He is oflten on her blog defending her and taking afront at any amarr who might like to explain how bad these ideas are from the losing sides perspective. Its just been the course. It is not surprising to me that Hans managed to get lp for defensive plexing accomplished early. Making sure minmatar were not "punished" for winning was a top priority for hans and Susan.
He trys to deny the connection but go ahead and read her blogs. Especially the comments where her ideas get shot down as too slanted for the winning side but hans keeps defending her.
Don't get me wrong I like Hans. I will probably vote for him again since he is the only one on csm that even has a remote clue about fw. But he has been almost constantly siding with Susan and at odds with amarr.
This is why we now have a system that helps the winning side solidify their advantage even thogh there was never any substantial support for these ideas on the forums.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
351
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 00:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Why do you guys feel like you're still losing? You have T2 now and you own about 20+ systems. These are systems that are stable and that allows you guys to move into w/o fear of being farmed to death. I know it's not everything but I sure don't think you guys are 'losing'.
I would like to see you guys get as many systems as we do up here in Gal/Cal space. But I don't see that happening so yes, CCP should break those chokepoints up.
Susan only trolls because she knows she can rile you guys up. And it works. And she continues to laugh at you guys while you continue to read her blogs thus continuing the cycle. Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
622
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 01:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Deen Wispa wrote:Why do you guys feel like you're still losing? You have T2 now and you own about 20+ systems. These are systems that are stable and that allows you guys to move into w/o fear of being farmed to death. I know it's not everything but I sure don't think you guys are 'losing'..
There are seventy systems in play in our war. 20 systems out of 70 is losing. We get about half the lp the minmatar do for the exact same things.
Minmatar has been able to cash out all their lp at tier 5. They are trillions ahead of the amarr. Now amarr just had the lp they all worked for and for the most part never cashed out devalued big time.
How many are in amarr and how many are in minmatar. Because hans took Susans advice and adopted a system that has absolutely not economic balance how is that going to change?
Deen Wispa wrote: Susan only trolls because she knows she can rile you guys up. And it works. And she continues to laugh at you guys while you continue to read her blogs thus continuing the cycle.
No one in amarr cares about susan. The problem is its clear Hans doesn't realize she is trolling when she writes things like minmatar are being punished for winning and minmatar are trying to give away systems so we need lp for defensive plexing.
And lo and behold in ccps dev blog they claim that is some sort of big concern and they immediately start awarding lp for defensive plexing which will just cement the winner's position.
To the extent anyone flipped a systems so they coudl farm it again was the result of plexing being farmville and was no reason to create a snowball effect where the winners cement their lead.
This was all explained to hans yet he took Susan's blog posts, apparently verbatim, to ccp and ccp acted on them.
So now instead of a faction war that involves pvp we still have occupancy involving pve. Its just that there is absolutely no economic incentive to join the losing side. No balance at all. Really dumb. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
487
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 03:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
I still say they should combine the miltias and make one warzone. Now the warzone is 171 systems or whatever. CalAmarri vs Mingallentar.
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Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
459
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 03:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
If you read the minutes of the last summit, Hans acknowledges the problem of the warzone geography (for both warzones) but recommends problems such as FWarmville, NPC balancing, Tier balancing and etc. are more urgently needed than to remodel the FW map(s). As far as I can tell, everyone has agreed that the geography is bad; everyone has also agreed that the mess of Inferno needs to be patched up and that the geography is something that, while problematic, is something everyone has been dealing with and can continue to deal with as long as the other bullshit gets fixed up. Most of that bullshit is getting fixed up through Fast Forward and Retribution.
Hans - damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. There is just no winning with you.
Also, Hans and Susan are not joined at the hip and to imply that they are is quite disingenuous. A lot of the things CCP are doing are healthy for the entirety of FW and are not biased towards one faction of the other. The only reason people like to say that CCP is helping the Minmatar is because we took advantage of the announcements pre-Inferno and used our superior coordination, morale and numbers to make sure we would have the advantage going into Inferno. If you want to be mad at us for using publicly available information to coordinate and plan our victory and domination of the SovWar, well, so be it. Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
3267
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 03:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
This would make a great story, if it weren't for the fact that I've already discussed map changes with Amarr players and made recommendations to CCP. Poe's once again several months late to the party and really testing the boundaries with what players will believe without bothering to fact check any of his bullshit.
As I mentioned in the recording Poe is using as "evidence", Pinky Feldman gave me these maps when we discussed this back in September:
http://i.imgur.com/aM9Ir.jpg
Pinky and I talked not only about specific map changes, but also about my interest in CCP hosting a Live Event to kickoff the opening of these gates. Pinky sent his maps to CCP Fozzie (and I followed up with Fozzie on Skype to be sure he had them), Fozzie liked what he saw but cautioned that this would likely have to come in a 1.1 or 1.2 release. It's been clear from the beginning that CCP is interested in opening up the map between the Amarr and Minmatar territories, and they have all the resources they need from players to design these changes.
Pinky however, was not the first to bring up the map - other Amarrians had also contacted me with information that I've passed on to CCP.
I'll be honest here - I did make one mistake in my Fweddit talk. I said that I didn't have an answer to give to CCP at the summit when they asked about the changing the map. This is true, I didn't go into the summit with map changes on my agenda - because I was preoccupied with addressing the concerns that I was hearing about on a daily basis at the time. My inaccuracy though in talking to Fweddit was that I did actually have information about specific map changes at the time of the summit - I ran a quick forum search and it turns out that I had already given them this information before the summit even took place.
Bottom line is, the issue was never ignored, and in fact the need to circumvent the Hof pipe was a suggestion I forwarded to the developers in April. It's been discussed since than, CCP has what they need to work on this, and has for some time. The only reason it's not on the list for Retribution is a shortage of resources, not in CCP's lack of information or unwillingness to address this. This is by far the most ridiculously dishonest post Poetic has made to date.
Here is the copypasta from the internal CCP forums (which doesn't break NDA since its my own words):
#57 Posted: 2012.04.20 19:39 | Report | Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen I also wanted to link to this post, a set of excellent concerns from the community regarding docking rights, and the territory map. I think their request for knowing about this early enough to move everything they own around is a fair one and should be clarified publicly as soon as the matter is decided upon.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1162642#post1162642
Cearain wrote: Cearain wrote: Uppsy Daisy wrote: On the subject of maps, you really should get CCP thinking about the Amarr-Minmatar system layout Hans.
There are too many chokepoints at the moment!
Some of the chokepoint gates are regional gates, and very hard to camp successfully; these ones don't need changing.
e.g. Kourmonen - Auga, Vard - Ezzara, Hofjaldgund - Dal,
However, there are some other non-regional gates that totally dictate movement across the whole zone.
Hofjaldgund - Eszur and Frerstorn - Ardar are the main cuplrits.
On this point I think its pretty clear that the minmatar will have some advantage if Docking rights are really taken away if a system is occupied by the enemy.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Amarr_VS_Minmatar#sec
Minmatar will always have 2 key staging points that Amarr will never be able to do anything about. Specifically Egghelende which means minmatar will alway be past the hofjalgund choke point. And Gratesier which means they will always be able to base right in our back yard.
Unless CCP intended to specifically give minmatar an advantage these maps were not designed with the idea that you would entirely lose docking rights if a system was taken.
Edit: Actually I guess its not so bad since we have akkio in Minmatar's back yard. But all the same It would be more even if we had a choke point past the hofjalgund chokepoint or at least one into that dal-vard-siseide cluster.
When I made this post I was thinking that we would not be able to dock in systems controled by the other race that were not part of the faction war front. I think I was wrong on this but it would be nice to know for sure.
For example will an amarr fw pilot be able to dock in Rens? Dodixie? Egghelende (lows sec system that is part of gallente space and not in either faction war front)? Gultratren (low sec minmatar system not part of fw space.)
I assume Amarr will not be able to dock anywhere caldari cant dock within gallente amarr faction war space.
If this change is going through I have lots of stuff to move so if ccp could let us know it would be nice.
Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
|
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
459
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 04:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:This would make a great story, if it weren't for the fact that I've already discussed map changes with Amarr players and made recommendations to CCP. Poe's once again several months late to the party and really testing the boundaries with what players will believe without bothering to fact check any of his bullshit. As I mentioned in the recording Poe is using as "evidence", Pinky Feldman gave me these maps when we discussed this back in September: http://i.imgur.com/aM9Ir.jpgPinky and I talked not only about specific map changes, but also about my interest in CCP hosting a Live Event to kickoff the opening of these gates. Pinky sent his maps to CCP Fozzie (and I followed up with Fozzie on Skype to be sure he had them), Fozzie liked what he saw but cautioned that this would likely have to come in a 1.1 or 1.2 release. It's been clear from the beginning that CCP is interested in opening up the map between the Amarr and Minmatar territories, and they have all the resources they need from players to design these changes. Pinky however, was not the first to bring up the map - other Amarrians had also contacted me with information that I've passed on to CCP. I'll be honest here - I did make one mistake in my Fweddit talk. I said that I didn't have an answer to give to CCP at the summit when they asked about the changing the map. This is true, I didn't go into the summit with map changes on my agenda - because I was preoccupied with addressing the concerns that I was hearing about on a daily basis at the time. My inaccuracy though in talking to Fweddit was that I did actually have information about specific map changes at the time of the summit - I ran a quick forum search and it turns out that I had already given them this information before the summit even took place. Bottom line is, the issue was never ignored, and in fact the need to circumvent the Hof pipe was a suggestion I forwarded to the developers in April. It's been discussed since than, CCP has what they need to work on this, and has for some time. The only reason it's not on the list for Retribution is a shortage of resources, not in CCP's lack of information or unwillingness to address this. This is by far the most ridiculously dishonest post Poetic has made to date.Here is the copypasta from the internal CCP forums (which doesn't break NDA since its my own words): #57 Posted: 2012.04.20 19:39 | Report | Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen I also wanted to link to this post, a set of excellent concerns from the community regarding docking rights, and the territory map. I think their request for knowing about this early enough to move everything they own around is a fair one and should be clarified publicly as soon as the matter is decided upon.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1162642#post1162642
Cearain wrote: Cearain wrote: Uppsy Daisy wrote: On the subject of maps, you really should get CCP thinking about the Amarr-Minmatar system layout Hans.
There are too many chokepoints at the moment!
Some of the chokepoint gates are regional gates, and very hard to camp successfully; these ones don't need changing.
e.g. Kourmonen - Auga, Vard - Ezzara, Hofjaldgund - Dal,
However, there are some other non-regional gates that totally dictate movement across the whole zone.
Hofjaldgund - Eszur and Frerstorn - Ardar are the main cuplrits.
On this point I think its pretty clear that the minmatar will have some advantage if Docking rights are really taken away if a system is occupied by the enemy.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/map/Amarr_VS_Minmatar#sec
Minmatar will always have 2 key staging points that Amarr will never be able to do anything about. Specifically Egghelende which means minmatar will alway be past the hofjalgund choke point. And Gratesier which means they will always be able to base right in our back yard.
Unless CCP intended to specifically give minmatar an advantage these maps were not designed with the idea that you would entirely lose docking rights if a system was taken.
Edit: Actually I guess its not so bad since we have akkio in Minmatar's back yard. But all the same It would be more even if we had a choke point past the hofjalgund chokepoint or at least one into that dal-vard-siseide cluster.
When I made this post I was thinking that we would not be able to dock in systems controled by the other race that were not part of the faction war front. I think I was wrong on this but it would be nice to know for sure.
For example will an amarr fw pilot be able to dock in Rens? Dodixie? Egghelende (lows sec system that is part of gallente space and not in either faction war front)? Gultratren (low sec minmatar system not part of fw space.)
I assume Amarr will not be able to dock anywhere caldari cant dock within gallente amarr faction war space.
If this change is going through I have lots of stuff to move so if ccp could let us know it would be nice.
Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
/thread
Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |
Susan Black
KA POW POW Inc Late Night Alliance
58
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 04:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
do you live under a rock?
www.gamerchick.net Follow me on Twitter! @gamerchick42 |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1417
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 04:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:I still say they should combine the miltias and make one warzone. Now the warzone is 171 systems or whatever. CalAmarri vs Mingallentar. Calmari vs. Galmatar.
Amarr Militia |
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Susan Black
KA POW POW Inc Late Night Alliance
58
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 05:00:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
No one in amarr cares about susan.
www.gamerchick.net Follow me on Twitter! @gamerchick42 |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1417
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 05:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Susan Black wrote:do you live under a rock? Hans talks to you every single day. Of course you're privy to every thing he's doing, and can weigh in on it live (so to speak.)
If he has talked about the geography in September (wow, long wait since CCP first asked about it back in May/June), then he didn't make that public. But then, the lack of transparency with this CSM has been unsurprising. Amarr Militia |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1417
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 05:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
Susan Black wrote:Cearain wrote:No one in amarr cares about susan. I like mocking you. That's sort of like caring.
Amarr Militia |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1417
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 05:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:This is by far the most ridiculously dishonest post Poetic has made to date.[/i] http://soundcloud.com/poetic-stanziel/hans-visits-fweddit
42:03 (I placed a comment at the location, so that folks can start listening at that point.)
Not so dishonest. You state when CCP first approached you about the issue. And that you decided not to make it a topic of public discussion, because you, more or less, didn't feel it very important, compared to you own personal hot-button issues like "visual notification of plexing" and "rewind timers on plexes."
I'm paraphrasing that last part, but those are two issues you pushed hard with CCP as required fixes for this upcoming expansion. Apparently, you'll get at least one of them. Being Minmatar, the warzone geography has never been an issue for you, thus it fell down the list of importance.
Like I said elsewhere. Your job is not to time manage for CCP. Your job is simply to present every problem/issue to CCP, preferably in a reasonable timeframe after they first ask you about it, and it's their job to decide what they can and cannot get accomplished given the resources they want to toss at faction warfare. Amarr Militia |
Rathin
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 06:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote: Your job is simply to present every problem/issue to CCP
Ever noticed how the more someone talks the less people listen?? If we want anything done at all we have to trust the CSM's to prioritise what is raised with CCP otherwise it will all just be lost in the noise. |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1417
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 07:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
I see the puffins are coming out of the woodwork.
Rathin wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote: Your job is simply to present every problem/issue to CCP
Ever noticed how the more someone talks the less people listen?? If we want anything done at all we have to trust the CSM's to prioritise what is raised with CCP otherwise it will all just be lost in the noise. That's taken out of context. Granted, I could have wrote what I did more clearly.
Quote:Your job is simply to present every problem/issue to CCP, preferably in a reasonable timeframe after they first ask you about it ... I was referring to issues that CCP specifically ask Hans about. I assume when CCP asked Hans about the warzone geography, they were expecting him to dialogue with the community in June ... not wait until late September. (And as it turns out, Pinky took the bull by the horns himself, sending his information directly to CCP Fozzie, rather than using Hans as the preferred intermediary.)
Obviously sending every player complaint/issue/problem to CCP would be a bad idea. But when CCP specifically asks you about something they feel might be an issue ... seems to me, you'd want to jump on that. It's not often CCP seeks out player input on a problem at the beginning of the iterative process. Usually CCP waits until they've decided on the fix and then devblogged about it, they let players have their say at the end of the iterative process. Amarr Militia |
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
459
|
Posted - 2012.10.31 07:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:I see the puffins are coming out of the woodwork. Rathin wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote: Your job is simply to present every problem/issue to CCP
Ever noticed how the more someone talks the less people listen?? If we want anything done at all we have to trust the CSM's to prioritise what is raised with CCP otherwise it will all just be lost in the noise. That's taken out of context. Granted, I could have wrote what I did more clearly. Quote:Your job is simply to present every problem/issue to CCP, preferably in a reasonable timeframe after they first ask you about it ... I was referring to issues that CCP specifically ask Hans about. I assume when CCP asked Hans about the warzone geography, they were expecting him to dialogue with the community in June ... not wait until late September. (And as it turns out, Pinky took the bull by the horns himself, sending his information directly to CCP Fozzie, rather than using Hans as the preferred intermediary.) Obviously sending every player complaint/issue/problem to CCP would be a bad idea. But when CCP specifically asks you about something they feel might be an issue ... seems to me, you'd want to jump on that. It's not often CCP seeks out player input on a problem at the beginning of the iterative process. Usually CCP waits until they've decided on the fix and then devblogged about it, they let players have their say at the end of the iterative process.
If you had read Hans' post, you would have seen he already has presented the information provided by Pinky himself to CCP ages ago. Cearain has also raised this issue as well as lots of other people on both sides of the warzone. I don't understand why you insist on claiming this is an issue Hans has ignored. Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |
Poetic Stanziel
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
1417
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Posted - 2012.10.31 07:36:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vordak Kallager wrote:If you had read Hans' post, you would have seen he already has presented the information provided by Pinky himself to CCP ages ago. Cearain has also raised this issue as well as lots of other people on both sides of the warzone. I don't understand why you insist on claiming this is an issue Hans has ignored. I listened to him during his visit to Fweddit. I read his post.
You and I disagree on what Hans did with regards the problem of geography. It's cool that you're defending him and all. I understand that.
But ...
He did ignore warzone geography. From the time CCP asked him about it in May/June, until September when Pinky brought it up with him. (Hans did not broach the subject with Pinky. Let's be clear about that.) Pinky sent his documents straight to Fozzie, not through Hans. (For obvious reasons.) Amarr Militia |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
353
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Posted - 2012.10.31 07:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Susan Black wrote:Cearain wrote:No one in amarr cares about susan. I like mocking you. That's sort of like caring.
Stalking her like a scorned lover is more like it. Not sure why you let her get under your skill all the time. Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :) |
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
459
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Posted - 2012.10.31 08:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:He did ignore warzone geography. From the time CCP asked him about it in May/June, until September when Pinky brought it up with him. (Hans did not broach the subject with Pinky. Let's be clear about that.) Pinky sent his documents straight to Fozzie, not through Hans. (For obvious reasons.)
Then I am confused what you think that internal CCP forums post Hans linked (non-NDA breaking) dated to April is. I am also curious how you think the geography is the be-all end-all topic of FW's success when we have had so many problems with Inferno which are being rectified with Fast Forward and Retribution.
Are you blind, deaf or dumb? All three? Are you the Pinball Wizard?
Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |
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