EVE Search - When did we become as bad as Dems v. Reps?

Check My IP Information

All Channels

Warfare & Tactics

When did we become as bad as Dems v. Reps?

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Vordak Kallager Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 460	Posted - 2012.10.31 22:47:00 - [1] - Quote I mean Christ. I remember when we were able to sit down and have a pretty decent conversation about mechanics, issues, fights, what-have-you without descending to some base level of "you suck, no you suck". It's a giant negative-feedback circlejerk that is unproductive and inefficient. Personally, I've always had a lot of respect for most of the old-guard Amarr who have always been pretty reasonable and logical (besides some of the obvious nut-cases and trolls [of which there are some from all sides]), but a lot of these new guys seem to just want to pick a fight or make accusations or cry without knowing any of the history of FW. The system used to be ***** ; now at least we're getting some love and facetime from CCP who I think have done a pretty decent job with Inferno and hoping to fix Inferno's problems with FF and Retribution. Sa souvraya niende misain ye.**
Poetic Stanziel Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1420	Posted - 2012.10.31 22:58:00 - [2] - Quote Vordak Kallager wrote: ... at least we're getting some love and facetime from CCP ... We're getting attention. But is bukkake really love? Amarr Militia
Deen Wispa Justified Chaos 355	Posted - 2012.10.31 22:58:00 - [3] - Quote Yeah, the rhetoric is pretty awful. But honestly, there are only a dozen people on any one side who complain on the forums about this stuff. That's not bad considering there are thousands of people in each militia. So that's not even 1%. I've talked privately with a couple of Caldari and they enjoy the new patch as well. Forum warfare was always just for lolz anyway. No one here takes the forum warrioring that seriously....or at least they shouldn't. FW people really don't know how great they have it relative to lowsec piracy or nullsec. Many are just ungrateful and suffer from tunnel vision. I remember the few months leading up to Inferno in Gal/Cal space. You couldn't find wartargets who were in BCs or higher. All the squids were in cruisers and below. So many Gallente pilots would go gank the poor bastards for even daring to roam our chokepoints. And if there was intel of a squid BC gang (usually Bolsterbomb's and the THE4 guys), we all thought it was major troll because all they did was fly cruisers and below. Heck, I remember nights when Gallente could camp every major chokepoint from Heyd up to Vlill w/o fear or repercussion. And now, everyone is spread out, we're all rich beyond imagination, and loads of WTs from frigs to T2 ships are found roaming. But yet, FW people still manage to complain and whine about something. Thanks CCP- I love the new patch ! Gallente FW Blog http://iamsheriff.com/blog C'est La Eve :)
Poetic Stanziel Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1420	Posted - 2012.10.31 23:05:00 - [4] - Quote It happened about the time tiered LP payouts occurred, I'd imagine. Amarr Militia
Taoist Dragon Forced Penetration 59	Posted - 2012.10.31 23:11:00 - [5] - Quote The new FW mechanics and the fixes is what has brought me back to it. Loving it so far and can only see it getting better. I still pirate from time to time as I enjoy the hunt and the unsuspecting kill/ransom but it is more of a hobby for me now. That is the Way, the Tao. Balance is everything. I'm NOT a Pirate! I'm a privateer!
Rezig Huruta Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 55	Posted - 2012.10.31 23:11:00 - [6] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: Vordak Kallager wrote: ... at least we're getting some love and facetime from CCP ... We're getting attention. But is bukkake really love? I wasn't involved in FW until fairly recently. However, is it better now than it was before? (not sarcasm, it's a real question).
Vordak Kallager Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 461	Posted - 2012.10.31 23:18:00 - [7] - Quote Rezig Huruta wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: Vordak Kallager wrote: ... at least we're getting some love and facetime from CCP ... We're getting attention. But is bukkake really love? I wasn't involved in FW until fairly recently. However, is it better now than it was before? (not sarcasm, it's a real question). Absolutely. It was great (for what it was) for maybe the 1-2 years following it's release and then it kind of stagnated into bored and bitter vets. Inferno has been great for all sides. *Sa souvraya niende misain ye.*
Poetic Stanziel Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1420	Posted - 2012.10.31 23:24:00 - [8] - Quote Rezig Huruta wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: Vordak Kallager wrote: ... at least we're getting some love and facetime from CCP ... We're getting attention. But is bukkake really love? I wasn't involved in FW until fairly recently. However, is it better now than it was before? (not sarcasm, it's a real question). There was a time, when there was no reward for taking part in FW. CCP look upon this situation and said "You do far too much PvP. We will thus make the PvE far more valuable than the PvP." I've no problem with the PvE, really. It's that CCP has weighted the PvE over the PvP by an order or two of magnitude. If someone wants to do FW PvE, they should be able to earn X LP/hour. If someone would prefer to spend their time doing FW PvP, they should be able to earn Y LP/hour. X and Y should be approximately the same. They should also get rid of tiered LP payouts. System/warzone control should be a bragging rights/e-peen/roleplay enticement, and nothing more. Amarr Militia
Krawdad The Racket 6	Posted - 2012.10.31 23:40:00 - [9] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: System/warzone control should be a bragging rights/e-peen/roleplay enticement, and nothing more. Did you play FW before Inferno? If so, did you like the FW system then? Not trying to be snide, but this is pretty much how it was before that patch if I remember correctly.
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 626	Posted - 2012.11.01 00:31:00 - [10] - Quote Vordak Kallager wrote: I mean Christ. I remember when we were able to sit down and have a pretty decent conversation about mechanics, .... Yeah and then one side was told their view would be considered but really it wasn't. Your alliances views were represented very well in the actual changes but everyone else was told to f off. Now the system is stupidly lopsided. You may have Zarnak fooled into thinking things are grand as you make 150% more isk than him for doing the same thing but others aren't so easilly duped. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815

Cearain Imperial Outlaws 626	Posted - 2012.11.01 00:35:00 - [11] - Quote Krawdad wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: System/warzone control should be a bragging rights/e-peen/roleplay enticement, and nothing more. Did you play FW before Inferno? If so, did you like the FW system then? Not trying to be snide, but this is pretty much how it was before that patch if I remember correctly. I would much prefer it to go back to inferno or pre inferno. I hate that every isk I make from occupancy will put 2 isk in my enemies coffer after as soon as I leave. But the minmatar complained that they were being punished for winning with inferno so ccp had to make sure the rules were even more lopsided in their favor. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate Drunk 'n' Disorderly 229	Posted - 2012.11.01 00:38:00 - [12] - Quote Cearain wrote: Krawdad wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: System/warzone control should be a bragging rights/e-peen/roleplay enticement, and nothing more. Did you play FW before Inferno? If so, did you like the FW system then? Not trying to be snide, but this is pretty much how it was before that patch if I remember correctly. I would much prefer it to go back to inferno or pre inferno. I hate that every isk I make from occupancy will put 2 isk in my enemies coffer after as soon as I leave. But the minmatar complained that they were being punished for winning with inferno so ccp had to make sure the rules were even more lopsided in their favor. But the minmatar make less ISK from FW now then they did before this patch. The amarr make more. Isn't this a net positive that both sides are now more equal?
Vordak Kallager Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 462	Posted - 2012.11.01 00:39:00 - [13] - Quote chatgris wrote: Cearain wrote: Krawdad wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: System/warzone control should be a bragging rights/e-peen/roleplay enticement, and nothing more. Did you play FW before Inferno? If so, did you like the FW system then? Not trying to be snide, but this is pretty much how it was before that patch if I remember correctly. I would much prefer it to go back to inferno or pre inferno. I hate that every isk I make from occupancy will put 2 isk in my enemies coffer after as soon as I leave. But the minmatar complained that they were being punished for winning with inferno so ccp had to make sure the rules were even more lopsided in their favor. But the minmatar make less ISK from FW now then they did before this patch. The amarr make more. Isn't this a net positive that both sides are now more equal? Apparently not. *Sa souvraya niende misain ye.*
Vordak Kallager Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 462	Posted - 2012.11.01 00:44:00 - [14] - Quote Krawdad wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: System/warzone control should be a bragging rights/e-peen/roleplay enticement, and nothing more. Did you play FW before Inferno? If so, did you like the FW system then? Not trying to be snide, but this is pretty much how it was before that patch if I remember correctly. He didn't. It used to be exactly like he described and everyone complained that there was no meaning. Lots of people on both sides have wanted system occupancy to mean something over the years. Ideas proposed (yes, even by Amarr) were stuff like LP rewards, station lock outs, etc. Stuff we now have; but it seems the people who were so in favor of these changes are not happy now that they have them. Grass is greener and all that. Poetic, FW was ***** terrible before Inferno. PVP was at an all time low for the 6-12 months prior to Inferno with only some brief spikes when CCP would release new expansions (which is normal for all of EVE). It was literally . You are lucky you never knew FW back then: we aren't, otherwise you wouldn't be so quick to judge how Inferno is so , and we have to listen to your ill-informed drivel. Hmmm... I started off trying to be nice in the above paragraph but, well, sorry. Sa souvraya niende misain ye.**
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 626	Posted - 2012.11.01 00:55:00 - [15] - Quote chatgris wrote: Cearain wrote: Krawdad wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: System/warzone control should be a bragging rights/e-peen/roleplay enticement, and nothing more. Did you play FW before Inferno? If so, did you like the FW system then? Not trying to be snide, but this is pretty much how it was before that patch if I remember correctly. I would much prefer it to go back to inferno or pre inferno. I hate that every isk I make from occupancy will put 2 isk in my enemies coffer after as soon as I leave. But the minmatar complained that they were being punished for winning with inferno so ccp had to make sure the rules were even more lopsided in their favor. But the minmatar make less ISK from FW now then they did before this patch. The amarr make more. Isn't this a net positive that both sides are now more equal? Amarr probably could have hit tier 5 cashouts if we worked at it under inferno and that would have given us an equal footing. To the extent we could not hit tier five Hans and ccp had the option to tweak it to help the underdog. For example they could have given fewer vp for d-plexing. This and other solutions were presented in the I hub features and ideas threads. These recomendations were ignored. Instead they went in the opposite direction and actually removed all the balancing mechanics that help the underdog. Tier 2 is not as much as even tier 4 that amarr could easilly hit. Its true minmatar now make less, but the problem with this system is there is no balance once the snowballing starts. Yay we are at tier 2! Minmatar are at tier 4. Why would people choose amarr when they can make 150% more for the same activity by joining minmatar. This was the big F you. Hans may claim he didn't want this balance removed but he was cheerleading these changes. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 626	Posted - 2012.11.01 00:57:00 - [16] - Quote Vordak Kallager wrote: Krawdad wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: System/warzone control should be a bragging rights/e-peen/roleplay enticement, and nothing more. Did you play FW before Inferno? If so, did you like the FW system then? Not trying to be snide, but this is pretty much how it was before that patch if I remember correctly. He didn't. It used to be exactly like he described and everyone complained that there was no meaning. Lots of people on both sides have wanted system occupancy to mean something over the years. Ideas proposed (yes, even by Amarr) were stuff like LP rewards, station lock outs, etc. Stuff we now have; but it seems the people who were so in favor of these changes are not happy now that they have them. Grass is greener and all that. Poetic, FW was ***** terrible before Inferno. PVP was at an all time low for the 6-12 months prior to Inferno with only some brief spikes when CCP would release new expansions (which is normal for all of EVE). It was literally . You are lucky you never knew FW back then: we aren't, otherwise you wouldn't be so quick to judge how Inferno is so , and we have to listen to your ill-informed drivel. Hmmm... I started off trying to be nice in the above paragraph but, well, sorry. I'd go back to the pre inferno rules in a heartbeat. The only reason we have more pvp now is not due to the rules. Its due to more people flocking to the feature of the season. No more station lockouts where I have to travel 5 jumps just to repair my ship. No more knowing that every plex I cap gives my enemy 2xs as much isk as I will make capping it. edit: to be clear I would probably take inferno over pre inferno but it would be close. But I would much rather have pre-inferno to this ** we have now. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Krawdad The Racket 6	Posted - 2012.11.01 01:00:00 - [17] - Quote Vordak Kallager wrote: Krawdad wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: System/warzone control should be a bragging rights/e-peen/roleplay enticement, and nothing more. Did you play FW before Inferno? If so, did you like the FW system then? Not trying to be snide, but this is pretty much how it was before that patch if I remember correctly. He didn't. It used to be exactly like he described and everyone complained that there was no meaning. Lots of people on both sides have wanted system occupancy to mean something over the years. Ideas proposed (yes, even by Amarr) were stuff like LP rewards, station lock outs, etc. Stuff we now have; but it seems the people who were so in favor of these changes are not happy now that they have them. Grass is greener and all that. That's what I was getting at. The line I quoted struck me as contrary to what I remember every other FW player saying before Inferno. I'm not currently involved in FW so I'm not weighing in on how the new system affects faction balance, but I figured I should point out that the e-peen system has been proven to be boring as hell for everyone involved.
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 626	Posted - 2012.11.01 01:15:00 - [18] - Quote Krawdad wrote: Vordak Kallager wrote: Krawdad wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: System/warzone control should be a bragging rights/e-peen/roleplay enticement, and nothing more. Did you play FW before Inferno? If so, did you like the FW system then? Not trying to be snide, but this is pretty much how it was before that patch if I remember correctly. He didn't. It used to be exactly like he described and everyone complained that there was no meaning. Lots of people on both sides have wanted system occupancy to mean something over the years. Ideas proposed (yes, even by Amarr) were stuff like LP rewards, station lock outs, etc. Stuff we now have; but it seems the people who were so in favor of these changes are not happy now that they have them. Grass is greener and all that. That's what I was getting at. The line I quoted struck me as contrary to what I remember every other FW player saying before Inferno. I'm not currently involved in FW so I'm not weighing in on how the new system affects faction balance, but I figured I should point out that the e-peen system has been proven to be boring as hell for everyone involved. Before the inferno there was allot of agreement it needed fixing but there very little agreement on what to do. Most people claimed they wanted the occupancy war to be about pvp, but somehow that is still being overlooked. Most people claimed they wanted rewards. CCP delivered that with inferno. Inferno also heeded voices who said they need to be careful or the winning side would snowball. But those voices were explicitly ignored in this last patch which removes the inferno balances. A few people asked for station lockouts pre inferno but each time that view was shouted down by the majority of fw pilots. CCP did it anyway. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
subtle turtle Imperial Outlaws 56	Posted - 2012.11.01 01:24:00 - [19] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: If someone wants to do FW PvE, they should be able to earn X LP/hour. If someone would prefer to spend their time doing FW PvP, they should be able to earn Y LP/hour. X and Y should be approximately the same. Poetic, I'm actually not sure if I could possibly disagree more. PVP should not be an ISK earning activity, other than the incidental income from drops. PVP is in all essence an ISK sink on the market, and that is what makes it special in Eve. In Eve, PVP means you are engaging in a real risk, the stakes being your investment in time. If I'm PVPing, the real consequences of my actions are that I can lose a ship that I had to EARN, not one that was given to me. This is why, 3 years and 900ish kills into Eve, my hands will still shake going into a big fight. If I know that the drake on the line represents 2 hours of boring as hell PVE, I'm that much more engaged and invested in the activity. PVP should not be self sustaining. Actually, I think the new system, where the PVE contains the inherent potential for PVP, is a really nice compromise and balance. The tension of factoring in the DPS of the rats also makes for an interesting scenario, and can help with an asymmetric engagement.
Poetic Stanziel Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1421	Posted - 2012.11.01 01:54:00 - [20] - Quote Krawdad wrote: Poetic Stanziel wrote: System/warzone control should be a bragging rights/e-peen/roleplay enticement, and nothing more. Did you play FW before Inferno? If so, did you like the FW system then? Not trying to be snide, but this is pretty much how it was before that patch if I remember correctly. You did read the paragraphs before the one you quoted, where I do state that LP rewards are still given out. Amarr Militia

Poetic Stanziel Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1421	Posted - 2012.11.01 01:58:00 - [21] - Quote Vordak Kallager wrote: Poetic, FW was ******* terrible before Inferno. Only because of some terrible bugs (locking plex spawning) and the fact that there were zero rewards. Other than that, what was wrong with it? I'm not suggesting that the rewards go away. Just suggesting that the rewards are not a) tiered, and b) pvp and pve rewards are roughly equal on an LP/hour basis. Amarr Militia
Poetic Stanziel Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth 1421	Posted - 2012.11.01 01:59:00 - [22] - Quote Vordak Kallager wrote: Hmmm... I started off trying to be nice in the above paragraph but, well, sorry. Ah. So the problems stem with you! Amarr Militia
Cearain Imperial Outlaws 626	Posted - 2012.11.01 02:06:00 - [23] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: Vordak Kallager wrote: Poetic, FW was ******* terrible before Inferno. Only because of some terrible bugs (locking plex spawning) and the fact that there were zero rewards. Other than that, what was wrong with it? I'm not suggesting that the rewards go away. Just suggesting that the rewards are not a) tiered, and b) pvp and pve rewards are roughly equal on an LP/hour basis. Faction war got better after inferno mainly because of the number of new people joining. (not because of any rule changes) It would be better than now if they would go back to pre inferno except give us a set amount of lp per plex. Done. Equal for all sides and let the best faction win. But Minmatar (who have a csm member) won't have that. They might also try to do something to make plexing more of a pvp activity. But that seems a low priority with this csm and ccp compared to giving the winning side additional advantages. Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Milton Middleson Rifterlings Damu'Khonde 137	Posted - 2012.11.01 06:14:00 - [24] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: I'm not suggesting that the rewards go away. Just suggesting that the rewards are not a) tiered, and b) pvp and pve rewards are roughly equal on an LP/hour basis. If you solo an enemy titan, at tier one your income per hour is approximately 5 billion per hour. The only one stopping you is you.
Sura Sadiva Entropic Tactical Crew 18	Posted - 2012.11.01 10:05:00 - [25] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: I'm not suggesting that the rewards go away. Just suggesting that the rewards are not a) tiered, and b) pvp and pve rewards are roughly equal on an LP/hour basis. That makes no sense. Since the idea is to give to players a chance to compete for resources, occupancy and benefits for the warzone control (LP is just only a game mechanics to simulate this). If the LP reward were the same then there were no intrest and no competition to control the warzones. On the countrary: controlling more system would simply mean having less resources (aka less plex). Then one can say "I don't like occupancy gameplay". Fine, then do not play it. But canno't cry and demand to shape everyone's gameplay on a personal dislike. Nothing in eve is symmetrical, even, balanced, with identical rewards for everyone. Otherwise we go in the direction of instanced premade battlegrounds with same rewards for everyone.
Yuri Intaki Nasranite Watch Liandri Covenant 100	Posted - 2012.11.01 12:51:00 - [26] - Quote Vordak Kallager wrote: I mean Christ. I remember when we were able to sit down and have a pretty decent conversation about mechanics, issues, fights, what-have-you without descending to some base level of "you suck, no you suck". It's a giant negative-feedback circlejerk that is unproductive and inefficient. For me it started at around 2009 when gallente militia did what they did with Ankh leading them (= crossed the line between in-game & off-game). After that I didnt need much other motivation than to poison the general athmosphere of FW everywhere I could.
Diesel47 Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 301	Posted - 2012.11.01 18:51:00 - [27] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: Vordak Kallager wrote: ... at least we're getting some love and facetime from CCP ... We're getting attention. But is bukkake really love? unfunny, gtfo.
subtle turtle Imperial Outlaws 67	Posted - 2012.11.02 04:03:00 - [28] - Quote Vordak Kallager wrote: I mean Christ. I remember when we were able to sit down and have a pretty decent conversation about mechanics, issues, fights, what-have-you without descending to some base level of "you suck, no you suck". It's a giant negative-feedback circlejerk that is unproductive and inefficient. Personally, I've always had a lot of respect for most of the old-guard Amarr who have always been pretty reasonable and logical (besides some of the obvious nut-cases and trolls [of which there are some from all sides]), but a lot of these new guys seem to just want to pick a fight or make accusations or cry without knowing any of the history of FW. The system used to be ***** **; now at least we're getting some love and facetime from CCP who I think have done a pretty decent job with Inferno and hoping to fix Inferno's problems with FF and Retribution. Look at it this way; every forum rant represents time and effort that would otherwise probably be put into some equally obnoxious anti-social behavior. Every time I read someone going off the deep end on the Eve-o forums I think "well, that's one less puppy that guy is going to punch in the face today."
Dan Carter Murray 179	Posted - 2012.11.02 10:23:00 - [29] - Quote Answer to title: because you never have to do anything for isk again and have sfi1000 while us amarr get ***** every opportunity that the csm can unzip his pants. Oh and his female alliance mate does the pushing. Oh and npc still in your favor. Oh and your ships are lolunbalanced. Oh and war zone is lolunbalanced. Etc. etc. etc. you know the answer don't ask stupid questions. And one more thing: it's been emotional.
Mehashi 'Kho Spiritus Draconis Sicarius Draconis 25	Posted - 2012.11.02 10:56:00 - [30] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: I'm not suggesting that the rewards go away. Just suggesting that the rewards are not a) tiered, and b) pvp and pve rewards are roughly equal on an LP/hour basis. Since when do PVPers spawn regularly like NPCs? The idea that you can work to an isk/lp/hr rate in pvp is fairly "lol". Maybe one day ill not kill anyone, maybe another I kill 20 in 5 minutes. That's some pretty wild fluctuation. I'd hate to see someone try to balance NPC based income to that.



Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.