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Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
417
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Posted - 2012.11.02 00:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
Was good while it lasted. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
1342
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 00:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
Explain? |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
418
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Posted - 2012.11.02 00:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Explain?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2123982#post2123982
Post #136
I highlighted the important part.
Ok, so here's our current complete plan:
Corp hangars *on ships* are now fleet hangars Volumes will all stay the same Divisions are gone, as is any other reliance on corp roles Ship fitting array is always available to everyone in your corp and/or your fleet Ship fitting arrays on ships and starbases no longer restrict the number of characters that can use them simulataneously Fleet hangars and ship maintenance arrays on ships both now have "allow fleet member use" and "allow corp member use" in the inventory UI We're adding five new non-compressive containers (from 250k m3 down to 1k m3) For containers in a fleet hangar, only the pilot will ever be allowed to open or remove the container; other characters will only be able to drop into the container (with a warning) Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them)
We're hoping this will be the final set of adjustments, but obviously we're reading the feedback here :)
-Greyscale |
Maggeridon Thoraz
Reconfiguration Nation Transmission Lost
30
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Posted - 2012.11.02 01:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
what a nightmare. now logistics in this game becomes even more worse...
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Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
799
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 01:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Maggeridon Thoraz wrote:what a nightmare. now logistics in this game becomes even more worse...
Even more worse? Wanna get back to pre-JF era? That was an awesome time, btw... 14 |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
750
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Posted - 2012.11.02 01:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
bad change is bad... the scannability thing is annoying but the worst part is the corp role removal as it totally removes the ability to have any sort of security on what is already an insecure hanger system.
there are def some good changes there but the scannability and security changes are fail. |
Maggeridon Thoraz
Reconfiguration Nation Transmission Lost
30
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Posted - 2012.11.02 01:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote:Maggeridon Thoraz wrote:what a nightmare. now logistics in this game becomes even more worse...
Even more worse? Wanna get back to pre-JF era? That was an awesome time, btw...
yes why not. remove the jf from game, will give even more targets to gank .
Alekseyev Karrde wrote: The design changed, mostly based on the feedback in this thread. I have to agree, that it makes much more sense to be able to scan stuff in the fleet hangars and that this stuff drops as loot.
I agree, this is a logical change. It's not really a nerf or buff to suicide ganking, just expanding the potential range of targets. If anything, this might take some pressure off the freighter and hauler guys since they're not the only game in town anymore.[/quote] |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10235
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Posted - 2012.11.02 02:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:the scannability thing is annoying but the worst part is the corp role removal as it totally removes the ability to have any sort of security on what is already an insecure hanger system. The new containers fix that. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
759
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Posted - 2012.11.02 03:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jack Miton wrote:the scannability thing is annoying but the worst part is the corp role removal as it totally removes the ability to have any sort of security on what is already an insecure hanger system. The new containers fix that. at BEST the new containers make it more annoying. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
768
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 03:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
You were never meant to have 100% safe hauling. |
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rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
822
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 04:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Maybe they felt this was safe to do, due to the incoming bounty system.
As in more people are gonna be able to gank orca for phat lootz, but people can place a bounty on them, or the fact if you steal from that container the whole system can shoot you for it.
So in a theoretical way it is fair for this to happen, but I wonder how it will play out. I'm not shitposting. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
174
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 05:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:You were never meant to have 100% safe hauling.
They never had 100% safe hauling. |
Freakdevil
Aliastra Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 05:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:You were never meant to have 100% safe hauling.
It's about the hangar's security not the hauling. They probably worried that their corp will figure out how much faction **** they hiding.
Pinata party!!! |
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 05:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zyella Stormborn wrote:They never had 100% safe hauling. We both know that perfect ISK tanking was meant and I kinda agree that it shouldn't be the case. Speaking of access rights, nothing stops pilot from closing that totally. |
TomyLobo
Posthuman Society
25
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Posted - 2012.11.02 05:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
About time I got a JF. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
759
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 07:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:You were never meant to have 100% safe hauling.
it isnt about the gank 'safety', it's about shared hanger safety. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
424
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 11:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Jack Miton wrote:the scannability thing is annoying but the worst part is the corp role removal as it totally removes the ability to have any sort of security on what is already an insecure hanger system. The new containers fix that.
Not even close. The containers are at best a half assed attempt that doesn't address security or organization very well.
For security it's horrible. Basically nobody can have take rights from a container. So where before someone could be given full access to a specific tab, you can't organize with containers and have that same functionality. The pilot of the ship in question would have to move items someone needed out of the container into the main fleet cargo, or jetcan it. This adds potentially a good bit more tedious work to the cap pilot.
For organization they are **** poor as well. The hangar tabs have the huge advantage that they are not a fixed size. I can put as much or as little as I want in each tab, as long as it all fits within the overall size. Containers just add a layer of tedious frustration as you will have to take into account the size of the items you want to put in your various "tabs" and try to match to the appropriate sized container.
|
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
39
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 15:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:it isnt about the gank 'safety', it's about shared hanger safety. Well, I'd expect many people ITT to think of gank "safety" first, especially since OP highlighted the part about scannable and droppable hangar.
Derath Ellecon wrote:The pilot of the ship in question would have to move items someone needed out of the container into the main fleet cargo, or jetcan it. This adds potentially a good bit more tedious work to the cap pilot. Not that pilot has a whole lot of stuff to do aside from that, I think. Though it's indeed interesting what's going on with "alts online". Pulling boosters on grid, making Orca pilot do something... Who knows, maybe we'll indeed live to see mining overhaul
To be serious though, interface team seems to be thinking about scam / corp thieft first, intended usage second ("intended" from original owner's PoV anyways). |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
413
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 15:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
byebye 75k cargohold, hello 200k EHP.
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Maeltstome
the unified Negative Ten.
110
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 17:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
JF's ruined 0.0 - logistics in this game are a joke now. This is insanely minor in comparison to the buffs that moving large volumes of assets have had in recent years. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10235
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 17:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Not even close. Actually, very close. It means that there is security GÇö just not the kind given through corporation roles (which incidentally means that it'll be more versatile for mixed-fleet use).
Daniel Plain wrote:byebye 75k cargohold, hello 200k EHP. Expanding on the Orca's cargo hold is a bad idea at the moment anyway, so that's pretty much always been the caseGǪ well, except that it's closer to 300k EHP if you fit it properly. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Jerick Ludhowe
The Nyan Cat Pirates Nyanpire
188
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 17:41:00 -
[22] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:JF's ruined 0.0 - logistics in this game are a joke now. This is insanely minor in comparison to the buffs that moving large volumes of assets have had in recent years.
This this and this. JF were almost as massive a mistake as super carriers and titans.
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Katabrok First
Apukaray Security
20
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 18:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Not even close. Actually, very close. It means that there is security GÇö just not the kind given through corporation roles (which incidentally means that it'll be more versatile for mixed-fleet use). Daniel Plain wrote:byebye 75k cargohold, hello 200k EHP. Expanding on the Orca's cargo hold is a bad idea at the moment anyway, so that's pretty much always been the caseGǪ well, except that it's closer to 300k EHP if you fit it properly. How do yout set it for max EHP? My usual setup is:
[Orca, Actual Setup] Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I Damage Control II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Gist C-Type 100MN Afterburner
Small Tractor Beam II Improved 'Guise' Cloaking Device II Salvager II
Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Low Friction Nozzle Joints I Large Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
I usually fly it to sell stuff in Jita, never on autopilot. I know that the astronautic rigs lowers my armor, I'm just curious about how you do it... |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. R O G U E
532
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 18:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
Katabrok First wrote:Tippia wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Not even close. Actually, very close. It means that there is security GÇö just not the kind given through corporation roles (which incidentally means that it'll be more versatile for mixed-fleet use). Daniel Plain wrote:byebye 75k cargohold, hello 200k EHP. Expanding on the Orca's cargo hold is a bad idea at the moment anyway, so that's pretty much always been the caseGǪ well, except that it's closer to 300k EHP if you fit it properly. How do yout set it for max EHP? My usual setup is: [Orca, Actual Setup] Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I Damage Control II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Gist C-Type 100MN Afterburner Small Tractor Beam II Improved 'Guise' Cloaking Device II Salvager II Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Low Friction Nozzle Joints I Large Low Friction Nozzle Joints I I usually fly it to sell stuff in Jita, never on autopilot. I know that the astronautic rigs lowers my armor, I'm just curious about how you do it...
replace that istab with bulkheads. you can get an orca to almost 200k ehp without any of the relevant hp skills at 5 with just the bulkheads and dcu. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10235
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 18:37:00 -
[25] - Quote
Katabrok First wrote:How do yout set it for max EHP? [Orca, Pfft]
Damage Control II Reinforced Bulkheads II
100MN Microwarpdrive I Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II
Prototype Cloaking Device I Salvager II Small Tractor Beam II
Large Ancillary Current Router I Large Core Defense Field Extender I Large Core Defense Field Extender I
The problem with your fit is that you're wasting an awful lot of slots on stuff that makes no difference GÇö istabs, and nozzle joints in particular GÇö and on an item that makes it more worth-while to gank. If you just fit a standard T1 MWD, you can get into warp in 10 seconds, and no amount of agility bonuses will let you do that. Taking off from a station would take a bit more since you undock at speed, but you should insta-warp to aGǪ wellGǪ an insta at that point, so it won't matter. Once you get out of warp, you can use the MWD to align to wherever you're going. Exactly how you get that MWD on there is up to you. I prefer Ancillary Routers because it's handy for a few other fits as well and it lets you completely maximise that precious hull HP. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
19
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 18:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Gonna put a JF alt on character bazaar this evening. Ugleb > and TDR won't log in so long as their core members are demotivated for whichever reason is in flavour this week |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
234
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 18:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
Allow jump freighter use of cyno in high... problem solved. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10235
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 18:49:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Allow jump freighter use of cyno in high... problem solved. What problem? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. R O G U E
532
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 18:50:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:Allow jump freighter use of cyno in high... problem solved. What problem?
the problem that moving items isn't totally risk free... i know, i know. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
234
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 18:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:Allow jump freighter use of cyno in high... problem solved. What problem?
Threads START at the top of the page, on page One.
No need to thank me. |
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Chuc Morris
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 19:52:00 -
[31] - Quote
Maggeridon Thoraz wrote:what a nightmare. now logistics in this game becomes even more worse...
Was about time to nerf Jita, awesome news...
Bad ideas are bad and this one gets the Nobel price for being the worst of them. Should have worked on gate guns instead, that would be profitable to all eve and not only to a little group. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10235
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 20:02:00 -
[32] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:Threads START at the top of the page, on page One. Indeed they do, and no problem is presented there.
Quote:No need to thank me. Of course not, since the question was left unanswered.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
883
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 20:10:00 -
[33] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Was good while it lasted.
Yeah like Hulks, awesome work !!
Indeed... brb |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
424
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 20:40:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Not even close. Actually, very close. It means that there is security GÇö just not the kind given through corporation roles (which incidentally means that it'll be more versatile for mixed-fleet use).
I fail to see how you can say the containers they will introduce are anywhere near the functionality of the CHA divisions. These containers will have no configurable security. They are fixed at "ship owner can access the contents. Nobody else can access the contents".
That is not even close to the level of control we have with the CHA divisions, which can be set individually per division. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10235
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 21:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:I fail to see how you can say the containers they will introduce are anywhere near the functionality of the CHA divisions. Simple: by not saying that at all.
The claim was that there would no longer be any way to have any security in the orca's hangar. The new containers provide such security: the pilot picks and chooses what's available for people to take from the hangar by actively managing the inventory and taking things out on request. Therefore, the claim was incorrect GÇö this change does not GÇ£totally remove the ability to have any sort of securityGÇ¥.
In fact, in some ways it offers more flexible security than the current corp-role based one does. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings Situation: Normal
424
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 21:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:I fail to see how you can say the containers they will introduce are anywhere near the functionality of the CHA divisions. Simple: by not saying that at all. The claim was that there would no longer be any way to have any security in the orca's hangar. The new containers provide such security: the pilot picks and chooses what's available for people to take from the hangar by actively managing the inventory and taking things out on request. Therefore, the claim was incorrect GÇö this change does not GÇ£totally remove the ability to have any sort of securityGÇ¥. In fact, in some ways it offers more flexible security than the current corp-role based one does.
Well maybe that was a claim somewhere else in the thread, but certainly not what I was getting at. And I still don't see how this gives any better flexibility to security.
Under the current system for example, I could give you access to corp tab 1. And I could give player B access to corp tab 2. And I can easily get the items each of you needs without concern for someone taking something they shouldn't
With the new Fleet hangar, the best I can do is give you both access to the fleet hangar, which is global. I would then have to drag an item for you out of a container, and hope you can grab it before someone else who has access potentially snags it instead. Yea that is way more flexible. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10235
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 22:39:00 -
[37] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Well maybe that was a claim somewhere else in the thread, but certainly not what I was getting at. Too bad. It was what I was getting at and your protestations to what I said fall rather flat if you talk about something else.
Quote:And I still don't see how this gives any better flexibility to security. Because it's no longer tied to the need to dole out corp roles, which means you don't need to be in the same corp GÇö help, you don't need any corp GÇö to use the security features. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Petrified
At River's Edge TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.02 23:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:Explain? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2123982#post2123982Post #136 I highlighted the important part. Ok, so here's our current complete plan: Corp hangars *on ships* are now fleet hangars Volumes will all stay the same Divisions are gone, as is any other reliance on corp roles Ship fitting array is always available to everyone in your corp and/or your fleet Ship fitting arrays on ships and starbases no longer restrict the number of characters that can use them simulataneously Fleet hangars and ship maintenance arrays on ships both now have "allow fleet member use" and "allow corp member use" in the inventory UI We're adding five new non-compressive containers (from 250k m3 down to 1k m3) For containers in a fleet hangar, only the pilot will ever be allowed to open or remove the container; other characters will only be able to drop into the container (with a warning) Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them) We're hoping this will be the final set of adjustments, but obviously we're reading the feedback here :) -Greyscale
The change is not crippling. It mainly removes the invisible - and if you kill me it is gone *poof* cargo hold. While I will miss the simplicity of having the corporate divisions for mining expeditions, I like the splitting of the option to allow fleet or corp use.
The Orca was always gankable, it just was not profitable (or knowable) when someone was moving BPOs and other valuables in the corporate hangers. This change mainly means your Orca pilots will need to tank more - a DCU at least to make it harder to be ganked. |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
26
|
Posted - 2012.11.03 00:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:For organization they are **** poor as well. The hangar tabs have the huge advantage that they are not a fixed size. I can put as much or as little as I want in each tab, as long as it all fits within the overall size. Containers just add a layer of tedious frustration as you will have to take into account the size of the items you want to put in your various "tabs" and try to match to the appropriate sized container.
Pretty much this. |
WhaleCommander
Caucasian Culture Club Transmission Lost
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.03 05:29:00 -
[40] - Quote
As a hauler, I hate using containers. This is lazyness, instead of CCP fixing division they go "hurr durr, lets makes EVERYTHING accessable and then throw in containers to "fix" that problem."
Containers offer nowhere near the accessibility or convenience of a division hangar, not to mention containers have limitations on how much you can put in it, while divisions are limited by the maximum size of the corp hangar bay.
Fleet hangars will have the issue of people taking crap they weren't supposed to take and creating a bunch of issues. |
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Weiland Taur
Taur Industries Rebel Alliance of New Eden
104
|
Posted - 2012.11.03 16:51:00 -
[41] - Quote
There is something boring in being able to scan everything. CCP is rapidly removing the element of chance and excitement in finding out what the pinata holds as it cracks open. Simply making the Corp. Hangar drop items like a regular cargo hold would have been a wonderful change. |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. R O G U E
532
|
Posted - 2012.11.03 17:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
Weiland Taur wrote: There is something boring in being able to scan everything. CCP is rapidly removing the element of chance and excitement in finding out what the pinata holds as it cracks open. Simply making the Corp. Hangar drop items like a regular cargo hold would have been a wonderful change.
uh, that's exactly what they've done.. made it drop loot. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
413
|
Posted - 2012.11.03 17:17:00 -
[43] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Expanding on the Orca's cargo hold is a bad idea at the moment anyway why?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
883
|
Posted - 2012.11.03 20:01:00 -
[44] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Weiland Taur wrote: There is something boring in being able to scan everything. CCP is rapidly removing the element of chance and excitement in finding out what the pinata holds as it cracks open. Simply making the Corp. Hangar drop items like a regular cargo hold would have been a wonderful change.
uh, that's exactly what they've done.. made it drop loot.
+can be scan, witch once again is a huge buff to ganking but most people will not realise it before it happens.
I'm not against ganking but against brainless ganking when the gankee is being punished and nerf by whatever means just to get new awesome pixel explosions stats... yeah awesome
You're clearly being told to never undock with your stuff, you'll become bounty/gank profitable no matter how mutch effort you put in the moment pixels explode. That's what's wrong, brainless stuff from conception to execution to please multi account ragequit nerds.
Whatever. brb |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10235
|
Posted - 2012.11.03 20:51:00 -
[45] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:You're clearly being told to never undock with your stuff, you'll become bounty/gank profitable no matter how mutch effort you put in the moment pixels explode. That's what's wrong, brainless stuff from conception to execution to please multi account ragequit nerds. Nah. You're being told GÇ£don't undock without due careGÇ¥. All this change does is make Orcas sane again. You can still ISK-tank your hauls just fine.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
|
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
886
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 16:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
[awesome forums are awesome] brb |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
886
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 16:54:00 -
[47] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:You're clearly being told to never undock with your stuff, you'll become bounty/gank profitable no matter how mutch effort you put in the moment pixels explode. That's what's wrong, brainless stuff from conception to execution to please multi account ragequit nerds. Nah. You're being told GÇ£don't undock without due careGÇ¥. All this change does is make Orcas sane again. You can still ISK-tank your hauls just fine.
I'm not complaining because there are idiots loving to spend hours in their day hauling crap around right and left.
This adds nothing positive to the game or player experience, does not improve the tedious part but makes it even harder.
So where is the awesome player experience and removal of the tedious farming fest a-la-Aion-Wow and click fest a-la-Diablo III with this change? I clearly don't get it why this is so awesome apart from the awesome gank buff. The ship is not getting a bigger Ship Hangar, is not getting bigger cargo haul, nor is getting it's align/warp buff for the "give it" part, I only see a "take it" one. brb |
Songbird
61
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 17:16:00 -
[48] - Quote
fukcing containers - I thought we got rid of containers with the new hangars - apparently not. 1 step forward 3 sideways. Thanks a lot asholes |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10240
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 17:50:00 -
[49] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:I clearly don't get it why this is so awesome apart from the awesome gank buff. Because it removes a silly black spot in the cargo carrying mechanics. Sweet and handy as it was, it was also hilariously broken.
Songbird wrote:fukcing containers - I thought we got rid of containers with the new hangars - apparently not. 1 step forward 3 sideways. Thanks a lot asholes Quite the opposite: the new inventory system was meant to make containers much more useful as GǣfoldersGǥ for your stuff. Now if only the uninventory had worked properlyGǪ but it's getting a whole lot better with this update as well, so it might all come together in the end.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan.
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Weiland Taur
Taur Industries Rebel Alliance of New Eden
104
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 18:05:00 -
[50] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Maeltstome wrote:JF's ruined 0.0 - logistics in this game are a joke now. This is insanely minor in comparison to the buffs that moving large volumes of assets have had in recent years. This this and this. JF were almost as massive a mistake as super carriers and titans.
I don't have enough experience to know what this means. What is wrong with JF's or how did they ruin 0.0? In my limited time in Null they seem like a lifeline. How else would you get needed materials into null especially since local production is usually sort of a joke?
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Songbird
61
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 18:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
we already had folders and they were not limited by size - in fact the system was quite good. Now if you're in a fleet with anybody better hope they're honest people and will not steal whatever you put in the hangars. Goddamit |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
159
|
Posted - 2012.11.04 18:26:00 -
[52] - Quote
Weiland Taur wrote:Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Maeltstome wrote:JF's ruined 0.0 - logistics in this game are a joke now. This is insanely minor in comparison to the buffs that moving large volumes of assets have had in recent years. This this and this. JF were almost as massive a mistake as super carriers and titans. I don't have enough experience to know what this means. What is wrong with JF's or how did they ruin 0.0? In my limited time in Null they seem like a lifeline. How else would you get needed materials into null especially since local production is usually sort of a joke?
Because null logistics became 'ship to lowsec station next to highsec, transfer to JF, undock, light cyno, jump to friendly jumpbridge (repeat those two for as many times as you need to hit the null region you want), light cyno, jump to dest, dock' repeated in reverse on the way back.
Ive heard many tales of freighter escort ops from old hands and while they were in part a boring chore they also gave vastly more opportunities for things to happen enroute. It also means you actually had to work to maintain a decent sized null region rather than just shipping in everything from high sec at vastly reduced risk. |
Melina Lin
Universal Frog
42
|
Posted - 2012.11.05 21:30:00 -
[53] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote:Ive heard many tales of freighter escort ops from old hands and while they were in part a boring chore they also gave vastly more opportunities for things to happen enroute.
I wonder what tales the old hands would sing, had they run their freigther escorts in an environment where even small alt corps are capable of a sizeable dread hot drop.
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LuckyQuarter
Lucky Galactic Expeditions
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 02:18:00 -
[54] - Quote
I'm fine with this change, and don't see any need to buff freighters or orca's against ganking. All we need to do to balance things is to get rid of cargo scanners all together -- they've always seemed like a cheat to me - especially since they don't generate aggro or cause standing loss when activated despite their being at least somewhat of a hostile act....if pirates want to gank, go ahead...but they should live with whatever chance brings them in terms of loot/cargo and not be able to know in advance what loot is likely to drop. |
Alua Oresson
Demon-War-Lords Fatal Ascension
146
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 03:27:00 -
[55] - Quote
Darek Castigatus wrote:Weiland Taur wrote:Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Maeltstome wrote:JF's ruined 0.0 - logistics in this game are a joke now. This is insanely minor in comparison to the buffs that moving large volumes of assets have had in recent years. This this and this. JF were almost as massive a mistake as super carriers and titans. I don't have enough experience to know what this means. What is wrong with JF's or how did they ruin 0.0? In my limited time in Null they seem like a lifeline. How else would you get needed materials into null especially since local production is usually sort of a joke? Because null logistics became 'ship to lowsec station next to highsec, transfer to JF, undock, light cyno, jump to friendly jumpbridge (repeat those two for as many times as you need to hit the null region you want), light cyno, jump to dest, dock' repeated in reverse on the way back. Ive heard many tales of freighter escort ops from old hands and while they were in part a boring chore they also gave vastly more opportunities for things to happen enroute. It also means you actually had to work to maintain a decent sized null region rather than just shipping in everything from high sec at vastly reduced risk.
Bolded the relevant part. When we ran freighter runs it was the most god awful boring experience. There weren't epic battles, there weren't hot drops. It was just 8+ hour ops where if a neut came within 2 systems of you, the freighter was docked up/logged off so that the shipment of Zydrine that you were carrying wouldn't be destroyed. Why Zydrine you ask? Because you mined it, that was the most lucrative thing you could do. There were no anomalies, everyone sat around and mined all week to have money to PVP on the weekend. The good old days weren't that good. I prefer having jump freighters available. It means I can stay in 0.0 to PVP or whatever and not have to make a weekly trip to empire to pick up a ship because the stations never had anything for sale.
http://pvpwannabe.blogspot.com/ |
LuckyQuarter
Lucky Galactic Expeditions
9
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 04:55:00 -
[56] - Quote
Alternatively, some of you in null sec could..you know...actually research blueprints and manufacture everything locally. Yeah, it might mean some of you have to spend some time mining and training industrial skills rather than spending all your time pew-pewing... oh, the horror of acting like those bears in highsec!
All you really need to get for most things is blue prints and maybe minor t2 components..would fit easily in a viator, and a viator with covops cloak and warp speed implant would make logistics simple.
But instead..we went with JF's, and now everyone from nullsec has time to gank in high sec because hey..they have to go to highsec anyway to get their stuff....yay. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
498
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 06:42:00 -
[57] - Quote
When I lived in dullsec 12 months ago briefly, I made 16 billion in 3 months running logistics. I did one JF run, gave it up as a bad joke of a carebear activity, and went back to probing my ass through wormholes, which worked out cheaper, and got me a few ganks of my own enroute. I would get a route to Empire from Delve every 3-4 days and from Etherium Reach every 2-4.
I hear tales that IRC deploys draconian national socialist policies with regards to reporting wormholes, because it gives people in their space an ability to circumvent their carebear empire's massive industrial base, and to compete directly with their carebears on market using cheaply manufactured goods from Empire.
Seriously, if people are crying about JFs it should only be because of the fuel cost, not yearning for days of old when you couldn't survive well in dullsec because the market was borked because no one could even get a mining laser to go do this alleged mining in order to kickstart a foodchain of modules and hulls.
The biggest joke in nullsec? Hauler spawns. This is why no one really mines. A decent alliance worth of nullbears humping belts 23.5/7 can unearth enough hauler spawns to drop ridiculous volumes of low-end minerals, and make squillions in bouties while doing it. Taking submissions for "Trinkets friendly Advice Column" via evemail or private convo in-game. Anonymity sorta guaranteed.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10256
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 07:36:00 -
[58] - Quote
LuckyQuarter wrote:Alternatively, some of you in null sec could..you know...actually research blueprints and manufacture everything locally. The problem with that is that it would be braindead to do so since it would needlessly increase costs and make logistics even more horrible.
Sobaseki, one system one jump away from Jita has 250 fixed production slots. This makes a single system better for production purposes than an entire region of space, and the inconvenience of manufacturing at a POS does not make up for this massive imbalance.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Muad 'dib
The Imperial Fedaykin
620
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 09:33:00 -
[59] - Quote
im not a hauling geek or anything, but couldnt you just make courier contracts for stuff instead? http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4375/mynewsig2.jpg |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. R O G U E
571
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 10:36:00 -
[60] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Dave stark wrote:Weiland Taur wrote: There is something boring in being able to scan everything. CCP is rapidly removing the element of chance and excitement in finding out what the pinata holds as it cracks open. Simply making the Corp. Hangar drop items like a regular cargo hold would have been a wonderful change.
uh, that's exactly what they've done.. made it drop loot. +can be scan, witch once again is a huge buff to ganking but most people will not realise it before it happens. I'm not against ganking but against brainless ganking when the gankee is being punished and nerf by whatever means just to get new awesome pixel explosions stats... yeah awesome You're clearly being told to never undock with your stuff, you'll become bounty/gank profitable no matter how mutch effort you put in the moment pixels explode. That's what's wrong, brainless stuff from conception to execution to please multi account ragequit nerds. Whatever.
the person being ganked is only being punished for gross stupidity, every one should be punished for being stupid. if you want to put 30bn isk of anything in any ship, you deserve to get shot at.
if you're really that worried about the time ti takes to haul high value cargo in multiple trips, or how risky it is to haul that officer module... then throw it in a courrier contract and pay some one else laughably poor isk to take all the risk. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5017
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 10:40:00 -
[61] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Corina Jarr wrote:Explain? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2123982#post2123982Post #136 I highlighted the important part. Ok, so here's our current complete plan: Corp hangars *on ships* are now fleet hangars Volumes will all stay the same Divisions are gone, as is any other reliance on corp roles Ship fitting array is always available to everyone in your corp and/or your fleet Ship fitting arrays on ships and starbases no longer restrict the number of characters that can use them simulataneously Fleet hangars and ship maintenance arrays on ships both now have "allow fleet member use" and "allow corp member use" in the inventory UI We're adding five new non-compressive containers (from 250k m3 down to 1k m3) For containers in a fleet hangar, only the pilot will ever be allowed to open or remove the container; other characters will only be able to drop into the container (with a warning) Fleet hangars will now behave like normal cargo hold when it comes to ship scanners and loot drops (ie, will be scannable, and loot will drop from them) We're hoping this will be the final set of adjustments, but obviously we're reading the feedback here :) -Greyscale
It's a good change. There was never any justification for magic undetectable hangars that didn't drop loot like "proper" cargo bays; it was just never fixed. And now it has been
+1 CCP MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5017
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 10:50:00 -
[62] - Quote
LuckyQuarter wrote:Alternatively, some of you in null sec could..you know...actually research blueprints and manufacture everything locally. Yeah, it might mean some of you have to spend some time mining and training industrial skills rather than spending all your time pew-pewing... oh, the horror of acting like those bears in highsec!
I invite you to try this sometime.
MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5017
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 10:59:00 -
[63] - Quote
LuckyQuarter wrote:Alternatively, some of you in null sec could..you know...actually research blueprints and manufacture everything locally. Yeah, it might mean some of you have to spend some time mining and training industrial skills rather than spending all your time pew-pewing... oh, the horror of acting like those bears in highsec!
All you really need to get for most things is blue prints and maybe minor t2 components..would fit easily in a viator, and a viator with covops cloak and warp speed implant would make logistics simple.
But instead..we went with JF's, and now everyone from nullsec has time to gank in high sec because hey..they have to go to highsec anyway to get their stuff....yay.
I invite you to try this sometime.
So, seriously, contact me ingame, I'll get you into VANIS, you can tootle up to Querious and see how you find the experience of manufacturing in sov space.
HINT: training skills is not the issue here. We all have industrial alts. A substantial fraction of "hi-sec" population is actually the alts of 0.0 people using hi-sec to manufacture because the facilities are so vastly superior that it's more efficient to manufacture BATTLESHIPS 40 jumps from where they're actually needed. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Nimrod vanHall
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
6
|
Posted - 2012.11.06 15:59:00 -
[64] - Quote
Weiland Taur wrote:Jerick Ludhowe wrote:Maeltstome wrote:JF's ruined 0.0 - logistics in this game are a joke now. This is insanely minor in comparison to the buffs that moving large volumes of assets have had in recent years. This this and this. JF were almost as massive a mistake as super carriers and titans. I don't have enough experience to know what this means. What is wrong with JF's or how did they ruin 0.0? In my limited time in Null they seem like a lifeline. How else would you get needed materials into null especially since local production is usually sort of a joke?
Ehhhm why produce yourself when its easier and cheaper just to JF it all in from Jita. |
Oopsy Bear
Massively Masochistic Machos
1
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 06:14:00 -
[65] - Quote
Derath Ellecon wrote:Was good while it lasted.
I would support CCP making items drop from every kill and at a higher rate in exchange for cargo scanners being removed from the game. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
178
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 06:34:00 -
[66] - Quote
Oopsy Bear wrote:Derath Ellecon wrote:Was good while it lasted. I would support CCP making items drop from every kill and at a higher rate in exchange for cargo scanners being removed from the game.
Or flagging the ship that scans. ;) |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
899
|
Posted - 2012.11.09 19:58:00 -
[67] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Dave stark wrote:Weiland Taur wrote: There is something boring in being able to scan everything. CCP is rapidly removing the element of chance and excitement in finding out what the pinata holds as it cracks open. Simply making the Corp. Hangar drop items like a regular cargo hold would have been a wonderful change.
uh, that's exactly what they've done.. made it drop loot. +can be scan, witch once again is a huge buff to ganking but most people will not realise it before it happens. I'm not against ganking but against brainless ganking when the gankee is being punished and nerf by whatever means just to get new awesome pixel explosions stats... yeah awesome You're clearly being told to never undock with your stuff, you'll become bounty/gank profitable no matter how mutch effort you put in the moment pixels explode. That's what's wrong, brainless stuff from conception to execution to please multi account ragequit nerds. Whatever. the person being ganked is only being punished for gross stupidity, every one should be punished for being stupid. if you want to put 30bn isk of anything in any ship, you deserve to get shot at. if you're really that worried about the time ti takes to haul high value cargo in multiple trips, or how risky it is to haul that officer module... then throw it in a courrier contract and pay some one else laughably poor isk to take all the risk.
I'm a space mendicant, I only kill red crosses to replace my stuff. If I ever get some faction stuff in my cargo or hangar it always comes from other players ship drop.
Doesn't mean I shouldn't have an opinion (yep I do own an Orca to move my ships left and right), but whatever.
I only ask for NPC stations to be destructible, everything else, I care more or less.
brb |
DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
438
|
Posted - 2012.11.10 19:33:00 -
[68] - Quote
Songbird wrote:fukcing containers - I thought we got rid of containers with the new hangars - apparently not. 1 step forward 3 sideways. Thanks a lot asholes
You forgot a step backwards I too thought that the UI would help in seperating crystals but they don't help jack there you can't switch to unused crystals w/o new crystals being pushed in ( don't believe the lies that the right clickwindow tells you ! ) making a mess of your crystal managemnt w/o cargo containers Meta-gaming for NULL SECCers: Whine on the forums like a little ***** until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up.-á Typical NULL seccer whine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u299-o66wo&feature=related |
Piugattuk
CLOROFLORFILAPLANKTONPLATES
91
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 06:26:00 -
[69] - Quote
As of today I sold mine, and I'm selling off my entire industrial fleet, tired of CCP giving upper hand to griefers. |
Weiland Taur
Taur Industries Rebel Alliance of New Eden
106
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 12:55:00 -
[70] - Quote
They need to get rid of ship scanners and simply introduce a dedicated scanning ship, maybe one of those fairly useless hulls like the Primea that are sitting in people's hangars collecting dust. Gankees should know they are being scanned and be able to respond in some way even if it's just trying to get into alignment and warp. Gankers should either be totally surprised by the drop or have to find a more creative way to find out what is in the package, i.e. some of that espionage we are always hearing about. A sort of counter broadcast unit that gives off signals to make the scan ship think you have something you don't might be fun as well as a Gank bait device.
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Escomboli
Hammer Holding Wrong Hole.
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 13:08:00 -
[71] - Quote
SmilingVagrant wrote:You were never meant to have 100% safe hauling.
No hauling was ever safe, regardless of the ability to scan. People gank just to gank sometimes. Especially with the bump mechanics. Can keep someone stuck in a spot until the servers shut down while others just go to refit and shoot again. |
Weiland Taur
Taur Industries Rebel Alliance of New Eden
106
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 13:12:00 -
[72] - Quote
Escomboli wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:You were never meant to have 100% safe hauling. No hauling was ever safe, regardless of the ability to scan. People gank just to gank sometimes. Especially with the bump mechanics. Can keep someone stuck in a spot until the servers shut down while others just go to refit and shoot again.
And please, CCP, can we get rid of bumping. If you want to bump another ship it should be with a dedicated ship or a ship outfitted with a specific set of modules that allows it to only do that. Bumping is one of the DUMBEST MECHANICS EVER. While I applaud players making something of this horrible coding it makes absolutely no sense. Giant metal ships smash into each other and fly around like bumper cars instead of doing what giant metal things do when they hit each other at speed, which of course is break. |
Lexa Hellfury
Adversity.
168
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 03:12:00 -
[73] - Quote
Weiland Taur wrote: I don't have enough experience to know what this means. What is wrong with JF's or how did they ruin 0.0? In my limited time in Null they seem like a lifeline. How else would you get needed materials into null especially since local production is usually sort of a joke?
For starters, the ability to cyno from Jita directly to a deathstar POS in sov space, and from there take a jump bridge directly to your destination system basically removes all risk in nullsec logistics. Jump Freighters and Jump Bridges are the two worst changes to ever happen to nullsec. Prior to those, if people wanted things in nullsec, they either had to manufacture it in their space, or they had to use these crazy things called stargates to bring it in from somewhere else. The number of fights that have been lost over the years due to JFs and JBs is immeasurable. And yes, I'm talking about actual fights, not just hauler ganks (although there would certainly be more of those, too).
Imagine, if you would, a world without JFs or JBs. Alliance X needs to do some logistics (say, for instance, POS fuel). They purchase it in jita, load it into a freighter(s), and start making their way to their destination. They then have to have a fleet meet their freighter at the first lowsec system along the route. They have to clear out every gatecamp along the route, and be prepared to fight any roaming gangs they come across. The obvious downside is that there's more :jumps: for whoever is stuck flying the freighter, but the upside is that the alliance as a whole has to actual put in effort beyond "lol i lit a cyno" to get shit to and from Jita.
Now enter Corporation/Alliance Y, a group of pilots that specializes in small-gang PvP. As things stand right now, the only thing that roaming through enemy space does is force ratters to warp to a POS, and catch the occasional moron not reading intel channels, and maybe, if somebody has an FC online and feels like fighting you, you'll get a ~good fight~. This happen maybe 2-3 times a week with the current system. With the removal of JFs and JBs, there would actually be a purpose behind roaming in enemy space. Not only would there be convoys as described above to go out and fight, there would be individual pilots doing their personal hauling to disrupt. While 90% of the time this results in nothing more than a ~hauler gank~, if you push somebody often enough they eventually are forced to defend their shit, or have their alliance collapse.
Gatecamping would also have a place in Eve once again. As it stands right now, gatecamping serves next to no purpose. You sit on a gate while watching pornography on your second monitor, and every once in a while a shuttle jumps into you and if you're paying enough attention you maybe get on the killmail. However, if gatecamping actually disrupted something, you would not only get a few more ganks, but people would have to come and try to clear you out at some point.
While this obviously wouldn't spawn constant fights, and people would still blob/run away/other bullshit, it would increase the potential for fights tenfold from what it is right now. Alliances would have to be more self-sufficient in terms of defending themselves. You can batphone your entire coalition whenever your structures are shot, but you cant batphone your entire coalition every time you want to move something. Alliances would have to actually be able to stand on their own 2 feet if they wanted to live in nullsec, and it would present more opportunities for small-mid sized fights in both not only sov space, but also npc space and lowsec, and that would definitely be a good thing for Eve-Online overall, even if a few freighter pilots have to spend a few more hours a week at the keyboard and get the occasional adrenaline rush. |
Ant4r3s
Corporation for Public Broadcasting What Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 05:35:00 -
[74] - Quote
Lexa Hellfury wrote: Gatecamping would also have a place in Eve once again. As it stands right now, gatecamping serves next to no purpose. You sit on a gate while watching pornography on your second monitor, and every once in a while a shuttle jumps into you and if you're paying enough attention you maybe get on the killmail. However, if gatecamping actually disrupted something, you would not only get a few more ganks, but people would have to come and try to clear you out at some point.
While this obviously wouldn't spawn constant fights, and people would still blob/run away/other bullshit, it would increase the potential for fights tenfold from what it is right now. Alliances would have to be more self-sufficient in terms of defending themselves. You can batphone your entire coalition whenever your structures are shot, but you cant batphone your entire coalition every time you want to move something. Alliances would have to actually be able to stand on their own 2 feet if they wanted to live in nullsec, and it would present more opportunities for small-mid sized fights in both not only sov space, but also npc space and lowsec, and that would definitely be a good thing for Eve-Online overall, even if a few freighter pilots have to spend a few more hours a week at the keyboard and get the occasional adrenaline rush.
disagree on this part - just look at damn HED-GP between 10PM and 6 AM Eve Time. There's a gian collection of like 10 bubbles and a handful pilots permacamping at the Keberz gate. And while it would be extremely simplified to fight those gatecamps, no one rarely ever does it(except maybe 1 or 2 times an evening to take the gate camp over). While Pilots both from nullsex and from empire space have it easy to break down that camp(because getting a new ship is really cheap, and a tradehub is in direct reach) , no one really does it. so no, forcing people to do risky logistics doesnt make GCs more exciting. It just makes routes partially impassable |
Lexa Hellfury
Adversity.
169
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 15:22:00 -
[75] - Quote
Ant4r3s wrote:Lexa Hellfury wrote: Gatecamping would also have a place in Eve once again. As it stands right now, gatecamping serves next to no purpose. You sit on a gate while watching pornography on your second monitor, and every once in a while a shuttle jumps into you and if you're paying enough attention you maybe get on the killmail. However, if gatecamping actually disrupted something, you would not only get a few more ganks, but people would have to come and try to clear you out at some point.
While this obviously wouldn't spawn constant fights, and people would still blob/run away/other bullshit, it would increase the potential for fights tenfold from what it is right now. Alliances would have to be more self-sufficient in terms of defending themselves. You can batphone your entire coalition whenever your structures are shot, but you cant batphone your entire coalition every time you want to move something. Alliances would have to actually be able to stand on their own 2 feet if they wanted to live in nullsec, and it would present more opportunities for small-mid sized fights in both not only sov space, but also npc space and lowsec, and that would definitely be a good thing for Eve-Online overall, even if a few freighter pilots have to spend a few more hours a week at the keyboard and get the occasional adrenaline rush.
disagree on this part - just look at damn HED-GP between 10PM and 6 AM Eve Time. There's a gian collection of like 10 bubbles and a handful pilots permacamping at the Keberz gate. And while it would be extremely simplified to fight those gatecamps, no one rarely ever does it(except maybe 1 or 2 times an evening to take the gate camp over). While Pilots both from nullsex and from empire space have it easy to break down that camp(because getting a new ship is really cheap, and a tradehub is in direct reach) , no one really does it. so no, forcing people to do risky logistics doesnt make GCs more exciting. It just makes routes partially impassable
The HED-GP camp is actually a huge pain in the ass to go bust. You either have to go through something like 10-15 jumps of empire (which is a massive hassle when half your fleet has to best-speed to HED because they're -5 and would die to police if they slow down, thus resulting in your fleet being spread out over multiple systems by the time they reach Keberz, where they still can't stop and wait), or you have to go the long way through either Curse or Provi, both of which are more enticing to stay in and PvP than to go to HED and have the camp go "lol, we're jumping into highsec, bye". It's just quite a ways out of the way to go, because if you don't get a fight there you basically have to turn around and go back the way you came.
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Lord Calus
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
50
|
Posted - 2012.11.15 17:18:00 -
[76] - Quote
Weiland Taur wrote:Escomboli wrote:SmilingVagrant wrote:You were never meant to have 100% safe hauling. No hauling was ever safe, regardless of the ability to scan. People gank just to gank sometimes. Especially with the bump mechanics. Can keep someone stuck in a spot until the servers shut down while others just go to refit and shoot again. And please, CCP, can we get rid of bumping. If you want to bump another ship it should be with a dedicated ship or a ship outfitted with a specific set of modules that allows it to only do that. Bumping is one of the DUMBEST MECHANICS EVER. While I applaud players making something of this horrible coding it makes absolutely no sense. Giant metal ships smash into each other and fly around like bumper cars instead of doing what giant metal things do when they hit each other at speed, which of course is break.
Not sure if you are serious or just being a troll. Bumping is a perfectly legit mechanic which has been in the game forever. I am terribly sorry that you feel like you know better than the game designers, and have not adapted to almost 10 years of game mechanics.
Next time try one of the following: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose. Never haul more than 2bil isk worth of stuff at a time. Don't mine AFK. Don't aggress people in your bling ship. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
If the people who want to gank couldn't bump, they would still be able to gank. Your suggestion just reeks of impotent rage because you died to something and you want that something nerfed/removed. Have a nice day!
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