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Charlie Crewes
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
6
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Posted - 2012.11.07 21:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm no ship or fitting expert or anything, but I was looking to try something different and get a Bhaalgorn to use as a level 4 mission runner. Hit Google to look into the viability of such an idea, and found that peoples heads seem to explode when this is considered, citing it's a PvP boat. Why is this? Just because it's usually used for PvP doesn't inherently make it bad for PvE. I see it as something akin to an expensive Abaddon, minus the armor bonus.
Sure - others will outperform the Bhaalgorn for less isk, but I'm not looking to buy a shiny because I need the isk. That being said, I don't want to buy a shiny that can't perform either. Was between the Nightmare and the Bhaalgorn, and decided on the Bhaalgorn as I thought the NOS would help mitigate the cap drain of my lasers.
My thought was to fit is as a dual rep dual web with 4 tachyon's and 3 meta 4 heavy NOS. Since the rats have unlimited capacitor, just sick the NOS on a rat and go to town on all of the other rats. Other damage, tank, and cap mods as needed.
What's the big deal? I'm not saying you folks are wrong...I'm merely asking for more of an explanation than "it's a PvP boat". What is it that makes it excel at PvP, but suck at PvE? |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
266
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Posted - 2012.11.07 21:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Only 8 effective guns and crappy bonuses for L4 PVE. Expensive hull.
Same money gets you better alternatives for L4 laser combat like navy apoc, paladin, nightmare, navy geddon. |
Goldensaver
Vorbild Industries Inc.
89
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Posted - 2012.11.07 21:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
No damage bonuses, neut bonuses, no tanking bonuses.... Why would you use it over anything else that could be similarly equipped. It's much better off as a webbing neuting PvP ship that shuts down its opponents. |
Riot Girl
RADIO RAMPAGE Initiative Mercenaries
375
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Posted - 2012.11.07 21:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
It's fine for PvE if you like neuting and webbing NPCs. |
Alara IonStorm
3410
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Posted - 2012.11.07 21:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
All that talk of NoS giving it a big tank but you don't need that to get the minimum tank. Once you know your ship can survive which any T1 Battleship can do it is all about Dmg projection.
A long Web would help but Dmg helps more. Is the Bhaal a bad ship for PvE, no not really Tach's are high Dmg it will do the missions reasonable enough. Is it a good ship, for 1Bil, you can get much more killing power then effective 8 Guns with Tach's.
The Faction Apoc can fit 8 Tach's and hit at long range and be stable enough in tank for instance so the Bhaal just isn't that spectacular. If you want to fly one and you are not an ISK Per Hour person then absolutely. I use a Navy Scorp over a CNR for the lazy tank so I can watch youtube while I grind, I want to train up an MWD Cap Stable Proteus Blaster Fit to replace it for the hell of it even if it is slower then the Tengu, so go with which ship you will prefer even if that preference is aesthetics, or combat style or weapons choice or whatever.
If it is ISK per Hour Absolutism then something else. |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
2884
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Posted - 2012.11.07 22:01:00 -
[6] - Quote
Waste of money and hull for level 4's. Look at the Navy Geddon if you want something similar. If you want a badass pirate ship for missions then consider the Rattlesnake or Machariel. Although for the Machariel it makes more sense to run with a x-l burst tanked maelstrom. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ (my spaceblog) http://bit.ly/RB6X4C ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
748
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Posted - 2012.11.07 22:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Bhaalgorn: 4 guns * 2 from bonus = 8 turrets
Nightmare: 4 guns * 2 * 1.25 from bonuses = 10 turrets (plus extra tracking)
(N)Apoc: 8 guns, no bonus to damage but range to offset = 8 longer range turrets
(N)Geddon: 7 turrets * 1/.75 from bonus = 8.67 turrets (plus sentries)
Abaddon: 8 turrets * 1.25 from bonus = 10 turrets
Conclusion: Bhaalgorn does Apoc damage without the range bonus, which effectively cuts damage. But it's easy on cap with the nos, I guess. |
Jack Miton
Aperture Harmonics K162
770
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Posted - 2012.11.07 23:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Because it doesnt get a damage bonus, or tank bonus, or tracking bonus. for starters... |
Akuma Tsukai
Viziam Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2012.11.07 23:42:00 -
[9] - Quote
What mann said. Bhaal just dont have any bonuses for it. But all blood ships are good at low sec/zero sec pve simply cause any solo ganker attacking you would be out of cap before he knows it Generaly just fly bloodies in "leach" style and ure good to go. |
Charlie Crewes
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
6
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Posted - 2012.11.08 01:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
Thanks for the information. |
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TomyLobo
Posthuman Society
25
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Posted - 2012.11.08 03:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Simply because it's not. |
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
233
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Posted - 2012.11.08 10:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
On the contrary, its a great ship for PvE.
Just not solo PvE.
Maybe SOV nulsec/Incursions fleets.
For solo, the tracking is pretty bad, in a group, just shoot bigger stuff, PvPish fit it and hope some one drunk hotdrops your fleet. |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
104
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Posted - 2012.11.08 17:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:It's fine for PvE if you like neuting and webbing NPCs.
How much benefit is there in neuting NPCs?
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Lady Spank
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
2889
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Posted - 2012.11.08 18:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
None. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ (my spaceblog) http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.co.uk/~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
61
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Posted - 2012.11.08 21:39:00 -
[15] - Quote
There is no good reason to use it in PVE except maybe some very marginal situations where it can be used in a fleet for the web bonus (usually done better by having an extra support pilot in loki or rapier). In pretty much every other case theres a cheaper hull that will do exactly the same thing or better. |
Akuma Tsukai
Viziam Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2012.11.08 23:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
Salpad wrote:Riot Girl wrote:It's fine for PvE if you like neuting and webbing NPCs. How much benefit is there in neuting NPCs? Nex to none. Itd does affects they rep cycle but cmon, since when NPC rep is a prob? NOS all the way for PVE, if memory serves its actually possible to have dual perma rep bhaal, on conditioa you have someone to suck dry close by |
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
104
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Posted - 2012.11.09 02:43:00 -
[17] - Quote
Akuma Tsukai wrote:Salpad wrote:Riot Girl wrote:It's fine for PvE if you like neuting and webbing NPCs. How much benefit is there in neuting NPCs? Nex to none. Itd does affects they rep cycle but cmon, since when NPC rep is a prob? NOS all the way for PVE, if memory serves its actually possible to have dual perma rep bhaal, on conditioa you have someone to suck dry close by
It is actually known for a fact that neuting an NPC prevents it from self-repping?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5073
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Posted - 2012.11.09 07:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Salpad wrote:Akuma Tsukai wrote:Salpad wrote:Riot Girl wrote:It's fine for PvE if you like neuting and webbing NPCs. How much benefit is there in neuting NPCs? Nex to none. Itd does affects they rep cycle but cmon, since when NPC rep is a prob? NOS all the way for PVE, if memory serves its actually possible to have dual perma rep bhaal, on conditioa you have someone to suck dry close by It is actually known for a fact that neuting an NPC prevents it from self-repping?
IIRC it reduces their chance to rep. An NPC rat will have an x% chance of repping y hit points every z seconds. NOSing or Neuting reduces (but cannot eliminate) x. If memory serves, there's no difference between the effect NOS and neuts have on this, so you might as well use NOS steal their pathetic amount of cap and not murder your own. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Hakaimono
Stillwater Corporation
21
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Posted - 2012.11.09 08:08:00 -
[19] - Quote
Why? Because Bhaalgorn says NO! |
Hakaimono
Stillwater Corporation
21
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Posted - 2012.11.09 08:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
If anything, the Bhaalgorn would be great AGAINST mission runners. |
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Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
42
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Posted - 2012.11.09 12:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Some incursion runners use skirm boosted Bhaalgorn with FN webs in moving armor fleets so that they can web stuff from 40+ km instead of waiting for it to come closer (and having to deal with transversal they gain in the process). Pretty advanced stuff in terms of coordination and support required (boosters, resebos and such) and probably isn't that much benefical in terms of isk/hour comparing to regular moving fleets that are heavy on ships like Vindicators, but it is still an option, and not bad one, or so I heard.
Another use for it in "PvE" is probably baiting ninjas, but your risk is pretty high due to sheer hull price.
Other than that, I can't really think of PvE application of this ship. |
Raziel Walker
Grey Templars Fidelas Constans
2
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Posted - 2012.11.09 13:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
It has already been mentioned there are other ships better fit for mission running since it has no real damage bonus but only the marauder damage doubler.
But maybe http://jestertrek.blogspot.nl/2011/08/fit-of-week-incursion-bhaalgorn.html can give some ideas about a fit. Although that fit would be best served dualboxing because it's not a solo fit.
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Ristlin Wakefield
Wanderers of the Eternal Darkness Eternal Pretorian Alliance
134
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Posted - 2012.11.09 14:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
Akuma Tsukai wrote:Salpad wrote:Riot Girl wrote:It's fine for PvE if you like neuting and webbing NPCs. How much benefit is there in neuting NPCs? Nex to none. Itd does affects they rep cycle but cmon, since when NPC rep is a prob? NOS all the way for PVE, if memory serves its actually possible to have dual perma rep bhaal, on conditioa you have someone to suck dry close by
Something big and slow close by to suck. I have a lover, her name is EVE. I see her every night and all she asks in return is that I have a pilot's license. |
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