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Koujjo Dian
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
18
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Posted - 2012.11.07 21:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
The more I play the less happy I become with my chosen race of ships. I like to fly solo because I believe it gives you a greater sense of achievement and possibly teaches you more about PVP. I still have much to learn about PVP but I'm beginning to wonder if by restricting myself to Amarr ships is handicapping my progress. I've been told before that Amarr was better suited to fleet combat but I thought surely there must be some ships that perform well enough solo to get by.
I think now it is not the ships themselves but other factors that make the race ill suited to solo combat. Lets look at the primary weapon system first. Lasers have only one attribute that can be called an advantage, damage projection. This is all fine and well and probably works well with a fleet. But when you look at it from a solo PVP standpoint it is only a brief advantage at best. This is due to the inability of Amarr ships to dictate range. Amarr ships are naturally slow and when armor tanked they become even slower.
Now lets talk about damage type. Most frequency crystals do primarily EM damage with some component of thermal. This is great against shield tanks but horrible against armor, which leaves me to believe that you can't catch what you can kill and can't kill what you can catch.
And now the poor tracking speed of lasers. Again not really a problem in itself but when coupled with ships inability to dictate range it becomes highly exploitable by enemies with faster ships and better tracking. This can be reduced by fitting a web but then brings me to the point of............
Low midslot count. Although I'm still a noob I've become convinced that every Amarr solo boat must have a web fitted. This is impossible on most frigates and some cruisers but even the few you can fit a web on leave you without a way to fit a cap booster to address the cap issues and the vulnerability to neuts that all laser ships share.
There are exceptions to all this, T2 missile boats, slicers ect but for the most part a large majority of Amarr ships suffer these problems. I could be suffering from misconceptions or "grass is greener" syndrome but that's part of the reason I posted this. Am I wrong? Amirite? Should I be looking at it differently? I just don't see the upcoming ship balancing addressing any of this. |
Goldensaver
Vorbild Industries Inc.
90
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Posted - 2012.11.07 21:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Kinda grass is greener, kinda true.
Personally, if I were looking for solo Amarr boats, I'd be looking at:
Tormentor Executioner Arbitrator Retribution Vengeance Nomen
I've seen or flown all of these to pretty good effect in solo PvP, and I'd figure that the Sacrilege would do pretty well as well. I'd stay away from much bigger than that, due to cost and the odds of getting jumped by a group the moment you engage, but if you want the Nano-Harb works well, as does an Oracle, and probably a few other ships that I can't be bothered to think of.
In some ways, they aren't as good. But they still have a few reliable, capable solo ships. |
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
50
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Posted - 2012.11.07 21:51:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yep, Amarr ships are generally **** poor for solo work. With the exception of their Drone based ships and a couple of others.
For instance the Arbitrator is awesome, the TD bonus means you can kill some really crazy **** with it without too much trouble.
The Pilgrim needs to pick its targets well but it's another amazing ship from Amarr.
The Curse with 3x HML 3x Neuts can also fare very well against a huge variety of targets.
The Ashimmu with neuts + nice dps + 90% web speaks for itself, though it's unfortunately quite slow.
The Slicer is another awesome ship vs frigates. Though I'm not quite sure how it fares recently.
The Oracle can deal some sick sniper DPS too, so might be worth looking in too. Excellent in small gangs anyhow.
Harbinger http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/19961-PVP-Harbinger-620dps-72-8k-EHP-rigged-55k-unrigged.html |
Koujjo Dian
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
18
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Posted - 2012.11.07 21:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
Gabrielle Lamb wrote:Yep, Amarr ships are generally **** poor for solo work. With the exception of their Drone based ships and a couple of others.
For instance the Arbitrator is awesome, the TD bonus means you can kill some really crazy **** with it without too much trouble.
Yeah I tried an arby recently. Tried to 1 v 1 a stabber fleet issue. The combination of its web and tracking bonus pretty much made my TD useless. Kinda scratched arbitrator off my list because of the sheer numbers of SFIs in FW. |
Lady Spank
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
2884
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Posted - 2012.11.07 22:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
For Amarr solo frigs look at the AF's, both are pretty cool but definitely look at the Slicer too. It has range, speed and LASERS. I don't fly them often but probably should do so more often because I always have fun in them. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ (my spaceblog) http://bit.ly/RB6X4C ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
50
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Posted - 2012.11.07 22:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
Koujjo Dian wrote:Gabrielle Lamb wrote:Yep, Amarr ships are generally **** poor for solo work. With the exception of their Drone based ships and a couple of others.
For instance the Arbitrator is awesome, the TD bonus means you can kill some really crazy **** with it without too much trouble.
Yeah I tried an arby recently. Tried to 1 v 1 a stabber fleet issue. The combination of its web and tracking bonus pretty much made my TD useless. Kinda scratched arbitrator off my list because of the sheer numbers of SFIs in FW.
How'd you fit it? Neuts are supposed to take care of that web-problem, and once the web is gone orbit with an AB should be enough for the TD to work pretty well. The only real problem it has is missile ships and to some degree other drone users. |
Koujjo Dian
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
18
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Posted - 2012.11.07 22:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Gabrielle Lamb wrote:Koujjo Dian wrote:Gabrielle Lamb wrote:Yep, Amarr ships are generally **** poor for solo work. With the exception of their Drone based ships and a couple of others.
For instance the Arbitrator is awesome, the TD bonus means you can kill some really crazy **** with it without too much trouble.
Yeah I tried an arby recently. Tried to 1 v 1 a stabber fleet issue. The combination of its web and tracking bonus pretty much made my TD useless. Kinda scratched arbitrator off my list because of the sheer numbers of SFIs in FW. How'd you fit it? Neuts are supposed to take care of that web-problem, and once the web is gone orbit with an AB should be enough for the TD to work pretty well. The only real problem it has is missile ships and to some degree other drone users.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15119953
Was a fit I got from a blog I read. If I were to do it again I think I would go with an all passive armor tank. Also I think I need at least 2 med neuts. I was slow getting the smalls activated because of the range. I think he overshot me and passed out of range and I was slow realizing they had turned off. |
Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
50
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Posted - 2012.11.07 22:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
May you know, wanna try the most popular fit on Battleclinic instead?
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/32471-Solo-Arbitrator.html
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Koujjo Dian
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
18
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Posted - 2012.11.07 23:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
I also plex while fighting. Doing so with a passive armor tank can be difficult.
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Gabrielle Lamb
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
50
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Posted - 2012.11.07 23:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Koujjo Dian wrote:I also plex while fighting. Doing so with a passive armor tank can be difficult.
Kinda besides the point really, never said the ship would be usable in a situation such as that. That said as a Drone user you have excellent damage projection within 45km and quite decent damage too. You could simply sit at the warp in ******* people up with neuts and scram while having drones on assist mode on a friend. |
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Maeltstome
the unified Negative Ten.
111
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Posted - 2012.11.08 17:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bringing an AB to PVP is definitely bringing a knife to a gun fight.
[Arbitrator, Double TD]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II
Tracking Disruptor II, Optimal Range Disruption Script Tracking Disruptor II, Optimal Range Disruption Script J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Small Nosferatu II Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Hammerhead II x5
Why:
Nos and not a neut? You have no cap booster, a small nos can feed your scram once you use all your cap to neut. No cap booster? It feeds your cap, which makes nos more effective against you. 1600 plate? Don't be half assed, you require a totally cappless tank, which requires much higher EHP than you get from 800. DDA and not EANM? The DPS boost outweights the EHP gain. Fights will be over quicker, requiring less EHP. If you die before they die, the EANM wouldn't have changed that - since your drones are doing much less damage. Also the higher DPS makes them burn their own can faster without running neuts for ever. 2x TD? it requires 2 before you even notice a big difference. Inzi was the pionerring king/queen of this.
There are lots of reason why the above is better for solo - but takes too long to explain and its home time :) |
Seraph Castillon
Ghost Headquarters The Ghost Army
2
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Posted - 2012.11.08 17:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Before you say: "It has not point." No it hasn't. Often times your opponent will stick around anyway, or will simply melt before he can warp out. The couple of escapes you will have to take with it. Come december it will have a second mid for a point, but that will also ruin it's DPS.
Pro's:
-Great damage projection, up to 15km with Scorch. This is optimal, not falloff like with Minmatar. If you can start the fight at around this range you've basically won. -Amazing short range DPS with Conflag or IN Multi Freq -Great counter for ASB fits.
Cons: -No point -Very weak to TDs
[Coercer, Don't Even ...] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Damage Control II Heat Sink II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Trimark Armor Pump I Small Trimark Armor Pump I Small Trimark Armor Pump I
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Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
61
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Posted - 2012.11.08 17:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Not true solo but I know of a guy that used to do insanely well with a setup that consisted of dual boxing a kitsune with a tricked out navy omen (purely setup for speed, sig tank and dps, no plate, etc.) with halos, skirmish links and sig reduction drugs that navy omen was basically a frig with a lot of EHP for a frig and cruiser levels of dps/dps range (obviously not the tracking of frig sized guns but when you can out manouver most frigs transversal and sig becomes less of an issue).
If your looking for truly solo your playing the wrong game imo (or your crazy skilled) - even if you find what you think is a 1v1 fight the other guy will probably pop his cyno or uncloak his falcon alt once it turns against him. |
Koujjo Dian
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
19
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Posted - 2012.11.08 18:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Maeltstome wrote:Bringing an AB to PVP is definitely bringing a knife to a gun fight.
[Arbitrator, Double TD]
1600mm Reinforced Steel Plates II Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Drone Damage Amplifier II
Tracking Disruptor II, Optimal Range Disruption Script Tracking Disruptor II, Optimal Range Disruption Script J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I
Small Nosferatu II Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Hammerhead II x5
Why:
Nos and not a neut? You have no cap booster, a small nos can feed your scram once you use all your cap to neut. No cap booster? It feeds your cap, which makes nos more effective against you. 1600 plate? Don't be half assed, you require a totally cappless tank, which requires much higher EHP than you get from 800. DDA and not EANM? The DPS boost outweights the EHP gain. Fights will be over quicker, requiring less EHP. If you die before they die, the EANM wouldn't have changed that - since your drones are doing much less damage. Also the higher DPS makes them burn their own can faster without running neuts for ever. 2x TD? it requires 2 before you even notice a big difference. Inzi was the pionerring king/queen of this.
There are lots of reason why the above is better for solo - but takes too long to explain and its home time :)
I like this fit. I can definitely see how that would work. Thanks.
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Koujjo Dian
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
19
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Posted - 2012.11.08 18:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Seraph Castillon wrote:Before you say: "It has not point." No it hasn't. Often times your opponent will stick around anyway, or will simply melt before he can warp out. The couple of escapes you will have to take with it. Come december it will have a second mid for a point, but that will also ruin it's DPS.
Pro's:
-Great damage projection, up to 15km with Scorch. This is optimal, not falloff like with Minmatar. If you can start the fight at around this range you've basically won. -Amazing short range DPS with Conflag or IN Multi Freq -Great counter for ASB fits.
Cons: -No point -Very weak to TDs
[Coercer, Don't Even ...] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Damage Control II Heat Sink II
Limited 1MN MicroWarpdrive I
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Small Trimark Armor Pump I Small Trimark Armor Pump I Small Trimark Armor Pump I
Yes I fly a similar fit and like it very much. The only problem I have with it is running into fast frigs with TDs. Really waiting on the next patch that gives it two mids so that I can fit a MWD and a WEB. I agree it doesn't even need a point. By the time something realizes they're in trouble they're usually dead. |
Koujjo Dian
The Forsworn Protectorate Imperial Protectorate
19
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 18:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Not true solo but I know of a guy that used to do insanely well with a setup that consisted of dual boxing a kitsune with a tricked out navy omen (purely setup for speed, sig tank and dps, no plate, etc.) with halos, skirmish links and sig reduction drugs that navy omen was basically a frig with a lot of EHP for a frig and cruiser levels of dps/dps range (obviously not the tracking of frig sized guns but when you can out manouver most frigs transversal and sig becomes less of an issue).
If your looking for truly solo your playing the wrong game imo (or your crazy skilled) - even if you find what you think is a 1v1 fight the other guy will probably pop his cyno or uncloak his falcon alt once it turns against him.
Interesting out of the box thinking. I may try something similar although I do not dual box. |
Noisrevbus
282
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Posted - 2012.11.09 00:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Here's a thing that i belive alot of players do a bit backward these days...
Amarr have one incredibly useful solo-esque ship: The Curse.
It can be fit in many ways and should become the bread and butter of your trade. It may cost a pretty penny and many players know it's potential so they can shy away from it, but it's well worth the money to get into the style of play and perfect the trade.
Engageability is a fair point, the same goes for "picking your fights", but i think those concepts have become exaggerated in EVE - and particularily for newer players who listen to older pilots, with established names, who have trouble getting fights. As a new player you won't have trouble "getting into trouble".
Next to "picking fights" what the Curse enable you to do is "take fights", which have really come to play second fiddle reading around on these forums - but is the place where you should start. Use a good ship, learn how to use it and become comfortable: first.
There are too many players these days who pre-gimp themselves and then have trouble managing the fights they get, questioning themselves or the choices they've made.
Trust me, as a new player in a lonely environment you will get fights - and those fights will not be fair. Make sure you initially have a good tool for your trade; hone it, reach a steady performance level and work from there.
Curse gives you that, and it gives you alot of mileage (in learning to utilize different modules, and training new skills to fit and play around with new modules) with options between tank types, tank-to-EW and EW-to-spank. |
Christine Peeveepeeski
The Imperial Fedaykin
160
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Posted - 2012.11.09 03:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
Amarr have some amazing ships for solo work.
Slicer punisher Vengeance retribution Arbitrator Navy omen Harbinger Pilgrim
To name but a few. I've probably missed some too :)
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Moonlit Raid
State War Academy Caldari State
43
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Posted - 2012.11.09 09:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
If you're playing call of duty, bringing a knife to a gunfight is highly advisable. |
Lavitakus Bromier
The Scope Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2012.11.09 15:25:00 -
[20] - Quote
Punisher is pretty good. I have a gatling punisher with a neut Web and ab. Yes no scram. Majority of the time the person IM fighting the foe either fights to the death or the run away witch I still count as a victory. I also run a executioner with beams or artillery. Disrupter ab and a mwd. No point of a Web if I can outrun them. Cap stable till I run mwd then last 1:20 |
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Degnar Oskold
Justified Chaos
7
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Posted - 2012.11.09 18:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Honestly, your arbitrator's tank was pretty poor. For an armour arb, you need at least a 800mm plate, even if you are active tanking. A single medium armour repper will never get you through a fight, and the 400mm plate is more of a destroyer mod than a cruise mod.
Also, the Fleet Stabber quite rightly outperforms the Arbitrator anyway - it costs 10 times more than a T1 cruiser for a reason. I don't think any race's T1 cruiser could ever reliably solo a Fleet Stabber.
Amarr have good frigates in the Executioner, Tormentor, Punisher and especially the Slicer.
Their T1 cruisers (except the Arbitrator) are the worst, but the winter balance should help with that. Navy Omen is a beast too.
The Harbinger is a fine battlecruiser. Even given the limited damage types, its high DPS and good sized drone bay helps to compensate. The Prophecy sucks but the winter patch makes it interesting.
And most Amarr T2 ships are also powerful enough.
All the cruiser-sized and larger ships I fly are Amarr (except Drakes), and I never have the feeling of bringing a knife to a gunfight.
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Jason Ozran
Pragmatic Kernel Rat Pack Renegades
0
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Posted - 2012.11.19 10:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
I read the first post of this topic, and I felt like you just described what's in my mind.
I started Eve 5 months ago and choose Amarr, cause I liked the way ships were looking (Arma Navy, Abaddon, Omen...). After 1 month, I entered a corporation where I learned how to PVP and discovered how Amarr is one of the worst if not the worst race for solo PVP. Why that? You say it all: slow because of armor tank, great optimal range but low "applied" dps because of tracking problems, and a bunch of useless ships (Maller, Omen, Prophecy...). Oh, and what an horrible capacitor we've got...cause we are slow, so that means you fight mostly close range above frigates, so you get neut, so you can't shoot...so you're dead. Yeh!
But still, I said to myself: ok, nobody will expect you to solo pvp in a long-range punisher, or an executioner, so let's do it. And actually, it worked pretty well for me, as I know got around 850 kills and all with T1 and T2 frigates, and sometimes cruisers and battlecruisers, and most of them solo. But you have to pick your ships very, very carefully: amarr has been created to fly in fleets, not solo. For me, the only interesting ships are:
- Executioner - Punisher - Retribution - Arbitrator - Omen (after the "Retribution" update in 2 weeks, it will give it a try) - Harbinger, despite the way he moves as fast as a titan - All BS...but who solo in a BS those days?
So yes, Amarr kind of sucks, and their faction and pirate faction ships are not better either: Cruor is useless and weak, Phantasm not even cap stable with a mwd activated, and so on...
So better advice I can give: if your goal is to PVP solo, choose Matar or Gallente. They have strong ships, with good dps and/or good speed, and are very fun to use. |
jjohnpaul xvii
CTRL-Q Iron Oxide.
41
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Posted - 2012.11.19 11:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Not true solo but I know of a guy that used to do insanely well with a setup that consisted of dual boxing a kitsune with a tricked out navy omen (purely setup for speed, sig tank and dps, no plate, etc.) with halos, skirmish links and sig reduction drugs that navy omen was basically a frig with a lot of EHP for a frig and cruiser levels of dps/dps range (obviously not the tracking of frig sized guns but when you can out manouver most frigs transversal and sig becomes less of an issue).
If your looking for truly solo your playing the wrong game imo (or your crazy skilled) - even if you find what you think is a 1v1 fight the other guy will probably pop his cyno or uncloak his falcon alt once it turns against him.
Highlighted the important part for you.
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Reuqh Dew
Fiscal Fisting Inc. Imperial Protectorate
16
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Posted - 2012.11.19 14:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
Can't belive no one has mentioned Malediction yet! Malediction! Sure it doesn't have a lot of paper dps, but it has pretty decent tank, good damage projection and it's often underestimated.
And it's soooooo cute. |
Jason Ozran
Pragmatic Kernel Rat Pack Renegades
0
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Posted - 2012.11.19 18:38:00 -
[25] - Quote
Reuqh Dew wrote:Can't belive no one has mentioned Malediction yet! Malediction! Sure it doesn't have a lot of paper dps, but it has pretty decent tank, good damage projection and it's often underestimated.
And it's soooooo cute.
I'll prefer close-range crusader, who also doesn't need any SP in rockets. Killed a cynabal with it recently and it was pretty awesome! |
Lugia3
Shydow Imperium
117
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Posted - 2012.11.23 02:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
1400mm Artillery Abaddon, best Abaddon.
Not much can survive 10k alpha at 110km. Points are obsolete with it. Give drones some love: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2176396&#post2176396 |
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