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digitalwanderer
DF0 incorporated
104
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Posted - 2012.11.10 18:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
http://vr-zone.com/articles/new-potentially-habitable-planet-discovered/17792.html
It's the latest discovery of earth like planets, and this one seems the closest of the bunch by being exactly at the right distance of the sun and it also rotates on itself, creating a day/night cycle but it is 44 light years away and 7 times earth's mass.
The thing that pisses me off is that there might be life there, and even intelligent life, and we already assume that the planet is just there waiting for us to colonize it once we figure out how to travel such a long distance....It would be funny if it isn't available and the locals put up a fight to keep it that way.
On what moral and legal authority to we have to take it from them.....Assuming we have the technological edge to do so. |
Istvaan Shogaatsu
Guiding Hand Social Club
614
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Posted - 2012.11.10 18:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Might makes right. |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
The Python Cartel.
3478
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Posted - 2012.11.10 18:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Let's kick their asses and take their planet! Oohrah!
USMC's 237th birthday today and I wanna kick something's ass "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
689
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Posted - 2012.11.10 19:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
digitalwanderer wrote:The thing that pisses me off is that there might be life there, and even intelligent life, and we already assume that the planet is just there waiting for us to colonize it once we figure out how to travel such a long distance....It would be funny if it isn't available and the locals put up a fight to keep it that way.
On what moral and legal authority to we have to take it from them.....Assuming we have the technological edge to do so.
There's a lot of people who refuse to even consider the possibility there's other intelligent life in the universe, for a variety of different reasons. For them, it would come as a big paradigm shaking surprise to find any life there, and how they'd treat any less advanced life is evident in how they treat less advanced life here on Earth. The scientific community is only now coming to the consensus other animals on Earth are just as sentient as humans, and it still hasn't caused any change in how we treat them. I can see mining operations taking place on another planet which do serious harm to resident life, but they're considered to be acceptable losses as long as just enough of them are left to avoid extinction. Like we do on Earth.
And hell, they don't even have to be less advanced, look at how we treat eachother.
Some people believe more advanced alien races keep us stuck here on Earth until we mature more as a race, specifically because of what we'd do to anything we found out there. If you can accept the idea there is more advanced races that would definitely make sense. Kind of like animal control. "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |
Onyx Nyx
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
92
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Posted - 2012.11.10 19:08:00 -
[5] - Quote
digitalwanderer wrote:
On what moral and legal authority to we have to take it from them.....Assuming we have the technological edge to do so.
The British invented a nice way to legally claim territory and it was through the clever thinking of using flags. Moral? Claim it for her Majesty and the British empire. I kill kittens, and puppies and bunnies. I maim toddlers and teens and then more. |
baltec1
Bat Country
2763
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Posted - 2012.11.10 19:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
War of the worlds.
It will end in the same way. |
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
171
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Posted - 2012.11.10 19:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
digitalwanderer wrote:http://vr-zone.com/articles/new-potentially-habitable-planet-discovered/17792.html
It's the latest discovery of earth like planets, and this one seems the closest of the bunch by being exactly at the right distance of the sun and it also rotates on itself, creating a day/night cycle but it is 44 light years away and 7 times earth's mass.
The thing that pisses me off is that there might be life there, and even intelligent life, and we already assume that the planet is just there waiting for us to colonize it once we figure out how to travel such a long distance....It would be funny if it isn't available and the locals put up a fight to keep it that way.
On what moral and legal authority to we have to take it from them.....Assuming we have the technological edge to do so.
On what moral and legal authority do you eat cute cows that say moo or torture those little green plants with your teeth? |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
The Python Cartel.
3478
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Posted - 2012.11.10 19:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:War of the worlds.
It will end in the same way.
They never nuked the entire site from orbit....
Oooooh, biological warfare will be used to beat those aliens with the audacity to live where we can reach them "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
171
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Posted - 2012.11.10 19:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:baltec1 wrote:War of the worlds.
It will end in the same way. They never nuked the entire site from orbit.... Oooooh, biological warfare will be used to beat those aliens with the audacity to live where we can reach them
Neutron bomb the whole planet. It'll be glorious! |
stoicfaux
1754
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Posted - 2012.11.10 20:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
And what gravity be like on a planet with seven times the mass of Earth?
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head. Feature Request: -áDamnation Ship Codpiece-áfor the NeX store.
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Surfin's PlunderBunny
The Python Cartel.
3479
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Posted - 2012.11.10 20:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:And what gravity be like on a planet with seven times the mass of Earth?
you'd think it might be a tad higher "Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff-á |
Trin Xi
284
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Posted - 2012.11.10 20:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
digitalwanderer wrote: On what moral and legal authority to we have to take it from them.....Assuming we have the technological edge to do so.
I suppose that depends on whether you think everything got here by statistical coincidence or not. If it did, then arrival of the fittest would mean that if we could we will as moral authority is irrelevant, and no legality is established.
If it didn't, then there is such a thing as good and bad, and we'd have neither moral nor legal authority (although the last would be guesswork).
But then it's a silly question. |
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
689
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Posted - 2012.11.10 20:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:And what gravity be like on a planet with seven times the mass of Earth?
Like every time the mainstream media talks about life on other planets, they mean microbial or plant life. Wouldn't want to spook the herd with talk of more advanced life.
But if more advanced life did arise there, it would be able to deal with the increased gravity. For every 33 feet you go underwater it adds another atmosphere worth of pressure, but the very bottom is still teeming with life. It just may not be hospitable to us surface dwellers without specialized equipment. "It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |
MinefieldS
1 Sick Duck Standss on something
171
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Posted - 2012.11.11 00:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
stoicfaux wrote:And what gravity be like on a planet with seven times the mass of Earth?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth
According to this Saturn's mass is 95x greater than Earth's and it has almost the same gravity. |
Lugia3
Shydow Imperium
59
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Posted - 2012.11.11 00:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Saturn is also by far less dense than our rocks. Gravity effects other masses by the distance between them. The planets materials are farther apart and farther from you, therefore they have less of a tug on you standing at one point. Holeysheet1 for CSNM https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=168477&find=unread |
digitalwanderer
DF0 incorporated
105
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Posted - 2012.11.11 00:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Bane Necran wrote:There's a lot of people who refuse to even consider the possibility there's other intelligent life in the universe, for a variety of different reasons. For them, it would come as a big paradigm shaking surprise to find any life there, and how they'd treat any less advanced life is evident in how they treat less advanced life here on Earth. The scientific community is only now coming to the consensus other animals on Earth are just as sentient as humans, and it still hasn't caused any change in how we treat them. I can see mining operations taking place on another planet which do serious harm to resident life, but they're considered to be acceptable losses as long as just enough of them are left to avoid extinction. Like we do on Earth. And hell, they don't even have to be less advanced, look at how we treat eachother. Some people believe more advanced alien races keep us stuck here on Earth until we mature more as a race, specifically because of what we'd do to anything we found out there. If you can accept the idea there is more advanced races that would definitely make sense. Kind of like animal control.
I think it's already obvious that the odds that there is life in other planets, in wich planets look to be made the same way as our planet is pretty high to say the least, and all we have to do is look at the dinosaur periods in our past.....According to paleotologists there's been at least 5 major extinctions in the past 700 million years that the earth had life, and the earth is 4.5 billion years old so it spent a lot of time with no life on it's surface at all, at least until we find evidence that there was something living that's even older than 700 million years.
Sometimes i do imagine if that big rock hadn't impacted the earth 65 million years ago and the dinosaurs were left to evolve even further, and mammals never had the chance to eventually take over, how advanced would they be?.....We're on this assumption that some take for certainty that we are the most advanced thing that can exist a little bit to litterally, as 99% of all species that have ever lived on earth have come and gone already.
So expecting said planet to harbour only primitive life and expecting us to easily dominate it without trouble is jumping the gun a little bit, especially considering the size and mass of the planet at 7x higher than earth, meaning life there, even if primitive, has to be pretty sturdy and the average 200 Lbs human would weigh 1400 lbs there, so it's a possibility that what lives there are species you wouldn't want to mess with in the first place....Now imagine if they're smarter than us...
As for how we treat species on earth, i don't think morality comes into it but more of practical necessity since the earth's population keeps growing and by 2040 we might be hitting 10 billion people, so if we're doing such practices now at 7 billion people( keep in mind 1 billion people don't have regular food or water as it is), imagine when there's 3 billion more to feed, house, provide water, hospitals, schools and jobs while doing all this without increasing pollution and keeping the world economy going strong for everyone.....At some point the planet will simply give us the proverbial finger as there's only so much it can handle, but we're concerned about what happends today, or next week or next year......Issues that may be reality is just over 25 years from now, most don't care about it or state that they'll likely be dead by then, so they don't care since it won't affect them at all anyhow.
So once we're done with this planet and exausted everything it can possibly sustain, we can greatly reduce the total population by the means of war or desease, we can terraform much closer planets like mars, but that takes hundreds of years to transform an entire planet, we can go to these far away planets wich are already terraformed and hope we don't get our asses kicked by the locals, or we go extinct like many other species that have come and gone over hundreds of millions of years on earth.....Take your pick.
Here's a situation that's a riot though....The species living on that planet is at a similar intelligence level as us, and they've also detected our planet as being similar to theirs and are having this exact same discussion as we are right now... |
Alara IonStorm
3435
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Posted - 2012.11.11 00:34:00 -
[17] - Quote
Maybe there is life but the chances of intelligent life are astronomical.
Our planet is what 4.5 billion years old and in that time how much of it has their even been a sentient species on it and 99.9% of the time we've been the sentient species most of that was tribal stuff. Electricity isn't that old.
I think the arrogance is they are betting that if they shuffle a deck of cards randomly 5000 times and draw a card they probably are not going to draw the Ace of Spades every single time.
Edit: DW beat me too the chances thing. |
Shalia Ripper
210
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Posted - 2012.11.11 00:48:00 -
[18] - Quote
digitalwanderer wrote:
Sometimes i do imagine if that big rock hadn't impacted the earth 65 million years ago and the dinosaurs were left to evolve even further, and mammals never had the chance to eventually take over, how advanced would they be?.....We're on this assumption that some take for certainty that we are the most advanced thing that can exist a little bit to litterally, as 99% of all species that have ever lived on earth have come and gone already.
Read Harry Harrison's Winter in Eden and Return to Eden. Why can't I just delete my signature CCP? WHYYYYYYY?
Signatures have consequences - Malcanis
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baltec1
Bat Country
2766
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Posted - 2012.11.11 00:51:00 -
[19] - Quote
MinefieldS wrote:
According to this Saturn's mass is 95x greater than Earth's and it has almost the same gravity.
Yea but if you try to stand on it you will fall into its liquid metal core. |
digitalwanderer
DF0 incorporated
105
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Posted - 2012.11.11 00:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Maybe there is life but the chances of intelligent life are astronomical.
Our planet is what 4.5 billion years old and in that time how much of it has their even been a sentient species on it and 99.9% of the time we've been the sentient species most of that was tribal stuff. Electricity isn't that old.
I think the arrogance is they are betting that if they shuffle a deck of cards randomly 5000 times and draw a card they probably are not going to draw the Ace of Spades every single time.
Edit: DW beat me too the chances thing.
Depends on what you qualify as sentience though....For instance whales and dolphins are known to communicate between eachother and dolphins actually have a larger brain than humans, and since nature and evolution in general isn't one for wasting resources if they're not needed, then there's got to be a reason why a dolphin has such a large brain but we don't know the reason.
Many other species live in large groups because they know they're safer that way when it comes to the odds of becoming dinner for tigers or lions or crocodiles, or hyenas or sharks....That requires some very basic sentience to increase the odds of survival...
Or species that stay with their offspring for extended periods of time until they grow up and can fend for themselves... |
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Webvan
State War Academy Caldari State
128
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Posted - 2012.11.11 01:07:00 -
[21] - Quote
I'll get to writing up a cook book right away! |
Agaetis Byrjun Endalaust
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
25
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Posted - 2012.11.11 01:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
if there's some form of intelligent life over there there must be some forum discussion about "hey those Terrian mofos spotted us let's go and burn them atmosphere before they reach us"
and you don't want this to happen right? ______________________________ just because you're paranoid it doesn't mean they're not after you |
digitalwanderer
DF0 incorporated
105
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Posted - 2012.11.11 01:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Agaetis Byrjun Endalaust wrote:if there's some form of intelligent life over there there must be some forum discussion about "hey those Terrian mofos spotted us let's go and burn them atmosphere before they reach us"
and you don't want this to happen right?
Given the probable gravity there as it's built like earth but 7x the mass, we'd need powered exosuits just to even walk there anyhow....I'd be scared shitless of what might be living there just for that alone, as if( huge if) there is something resembling humans there, they'd make the winners of mister olympia bodybuilding contests look like scrawny like kids by comparison.
Imagine bigger species living in the oceans there like a whale....On earth it can weigh 30 tons, other there it would weigh 210 tons so it's just a slight difference really... |
Alara IonStorm
3435
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 01:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
digitalwanderer wrote: Depends on what you qualify as sentience though....For instance whales and dolphins are known to communicate between eachother and dolphins actually have a larger brain than humans( relativee to their body size), and since nature and evolution in general isn't one for wasting resources if they're not needed, then there's got to be a reason why a dolphin has such a large brain but we don't know the reason....Nor do we know what they say to eachother for that matter.
Many other species live in large groups because they know they're safer that way when it comes to the odds of becoming dinner for tigers or lions or crocodiles, or hyenas or sharks....That requires some very basic sentience to increase the odds of survival...
Or species that stay with their offspring for extended periods of time until they grow up and can fend for themselves...
Yeah but we live with all that stuff on earth. |
digitalwanderer
DF0 incorporated
105
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Posted - 2012.11.11 01:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote: Yeah but we live with all that stuff on earth.
Hence why there's things on earth that we still don't fully understand yet like the dolphin and whale example, yet both are being hunted down to near extinction because some hold on to the belief that organs extracted from either species will cure them of something that makes them sick, or simply give them a bigger erection....
So with said planet 44 light years away, and us with all our problems right now i don't think that we'll have to worry about colonizing any other planet anytime soon.....We got ourselfves into this mess, we got to get ourselves out of it even if it means making very difficult decisions that we don't want to make.
I am impressed by the scientists that found this planet, specifically that it's 44 light years away and they managed to conclude that it rotates on it's own axis so it has a day and night cycle, wich is pretty impressive given the distance involved. |
Webvan
State War Academy Caldari State
128
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Posted - 2012.11.11 01:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
digitalwanderer wrote:I'd be scared shitless of what might be living there just for that alone Well I wouldn't worry about it. There is no life there. Better off embracing the Fermi Paradox rather than to be caught up in all this alien life, global warming, macro evolution, it's all just bunk to get you to embrace globalism. I'm more worried about the governments of this world that punish the producers, especially the producers of food for human consumption which has been happening for far too long, too much intentional starvation of our fellow man for ill purposes. Aliens are fun and fantasy for entertainment purposes, but just not rational.
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digitalwanderer
DF0 incorporated
105
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Posted - 2012.11.11 02:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Well I wouldn't worry about it. There is no life there. Better off embracing the Fermi Paradox rather than to be caught up in all this alien life, global warming, macro evolution, it's all just bunk to get you to embrace globalism. I'm more worried about the governments of this world that punish the producers, especially the producers of food for human consumption which has been happening for far too long, too much intentional starvation of our fellow man for ill purposes. Aliens are fun and fantasy for entertainment purposes, but just not rational.
Fermi paradox has many variations to it and assumes we have the technology to communicate with whatever is out there( if something is out there, even if we limit ourselves to just our galaxy at 100 000 light years across), and actually expect an answer back within our lifetimes.
Even if we sent a radio signal to that planet they just discovered it would take pretty close to 100 years for it to get to the planet, get understood by whatever intelligent life there may be( if any), and sent back to us.....The answer won't come quickly and we need a whole new level of technology to make it in a lot less time.
As for food production and starvation, how much does the population have to increase before the planet simply can't produce enough food for everyone....We already use pesticides, insecticides, fertilizers and even genetically modified fruits and vegetables that grow faster in less time, and the same goes for animals we grow wich are packed with growth hormones to make them develop quicker too.
If you want totally natural, home grown food with nothing of the above, you'll have to grown it yourself but it will take extra time for it and the crop yields won't be as good......I remember once a long time ago( about 30 years ago in fact) eating a chicken dinner made by my farther's aunt wich had a small farm back then, and all that chicken ate was whole grain, lettuce, carrots wich also were naturally grown.....It was the best chicken i ever ate in my whole life, nothing in supermarkets or restaurants even compares to it.
So if we're doing this with 7 billion on the planet, how many more do you think it can sustain in realistic terms.....10 billion, perhaps 15 billion people wich we might reach well before the end of this century perhaps?...The planet can only handle so much as it's resources are finite and we're consuming them faster than they can regenerate even right now, so you can imagine when we're twice as many |
digitalwanderer
DF0 incorporated
105
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Posted - 2012.11.11 02:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
message deleted |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
1876
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Posted - 2012.11.11 02:41:00 -
[29] - Quote
I'm kind of hoping that other worlds are more advanced and waiting for us to get our act together before making contact lest they have to deal a heinous smackdown and make us into house pets.
Since that planet has greater mass, if there is intelligent life there, the physical strength of the beings is going to be huge, meaning bigger weapons and armor.
Still, no doubt the OP has valid concerns because earth has two features that make these concerns possible:
1. no shortage of idiots who think that anyone not like them is either too dumb (the left) or too evil (the right) to survive and therefore needs to be ruled by them, and hence they will go like cannon fodder to war. 2. people will flock to that planet to live there and fight the natives rather than take up arms against the establishment that makes our present world such a shithole. That's human nature and why I would justify any existing alliance in space ready to squash us flat if we discover warp drive before cleaning our own house first. |
stoicfaux
1756
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Posted - 2012.11.11 02:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Since that planet has greater mass, if there is intelligent life there, the physical strength of the beings is going to be huge, meaning bigger weapons and armor. Or due to gravity issues, the intelligent life is actually a hive-mind of quintrillions of ants.
Given how odd the flora fauna of Australia or the ocean bottoms is, independently evolved life on another planet could be unimaginably different.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head. Feature Request: -áDamnation Ship Codpiece-áfor the NeX store.
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