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Smiknight
The Plebian Republic
33
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Posted - 2012.11.14 06:33:00 -
[91] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Remove bounties from mission rats, keep mission rewards at the same level. That way mission runners will still have isk for LP turn in & it will actually give them a reason to loot & salvage. Mission rats, and mission rats only.
Nope. All or nothing. It is disheartening to see a game once steeped in cerebral thought and innovative thinking become so homogenized by entitlement and malaise; that indidviduals should instill a theme park existence through a lack of desire to overcome any and all obstacles and instead demand things be made easier for them via nerfs. |
BoSau Hotim
The Artist's
3085
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Posted - 2012.11.14 06:50:00 -
[92] - Quote
Smiknight wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Remove bounties from mission rats, keep mission rewards at the same level. That way mission runners will still have isk for LP turn in & it will actually give them a reason to loot & salvage. Mission rats, and mission rats only. Nope. All or nothing.
All - cost $0 nothing- cost $0
beleiving that nerfing bounties will stop inflation? priceless I'm not a carebear... I'm a SPACE BARBIE -á ***DISCLAIMER*** Regarding this avatar - any resemblance or similarity to other avatars-áeither living or dead is purely coincidental.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
404
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Posted - 2012.11.14 13:29:00 -
[93] - Quote
Asuri Kinnes wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Which is why High Sec shouldn't be all that profitable, the real game (the game of EVE, a game about player conflcit) is played outside high sec, the game that high sec residents don't want to participate in. Get over yourself.
No, i am your master, deal with it.
Benny Ohu: No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Clystan: Eve is the game of chess in a universe of checkers. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
404
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Posted - 2012.11.14 13:40:00 -
[94] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:[quote=Jenn aSide][quote=LHA Tarawa]
The real EVE is a sand box with many different areas where different people can enjoy playing the game with different play styles.
And even though you CAN do different "play styles" (btw "play style" is the stupideest term in all of EVE), like in real life, EVe has an underlying reality that trumps all ideology aka play styles.
As long as you accept that underlying reality of what EVE is, there is no problem. The underlying realities of EVE are conflict and mayhem, if yo don't like or can't stand 1 or both of those, yo're playing the wrong game.
And yet many a high sec dweller rebels against the underlying reality of a game no one is forcing them to play. Rather than take the rational route of laying down the game for something better, they come to these forums and DEMAND modification to the game (regardless of the spirit of the game) for their (short sighted) comfort.
Quote: High Sec people didn't make 0.0 as low profit as high sec. The 0.0 people that make 0.0 so safe that they can mine ABCs all day and night, have made 0.0 as low profit as high sec. The 0.0 people that made 0.0 as safe as high sec forced CCP to limit anoms in 0.0.
0.0 players are what made 0.0 as low profit as high sec.
So, null sec people made incursions with pay outs almost the same (not counting LP) as what you can get in upgrade null sec?
Man, I never knew that, all null sec people are DEVS. Wow, I should get my CCP paycheck any time now, I didn't evne know I was a DEV lol.
But seriously, thats a tired old fallacy, the idea that null sec is what it is because null sec residents somehow messed it up. Null sec is fine (sov sucks but it always has), the people claiming 0.0 residents messed it up are simply lookiing to pin their space pixel cowardice on someone else.
Null sec is SUPPOSED to be hostile space that's not easd yot get into or live in, if you don't have enough (in game) sack to go there and TAKE what you want, don't blame the people who DO have the cosmic ******* to do so.
Quote: Do you even realize that this statement is logically equivalent to you arguing that my choice of favorite color is a bad one?
Being a high sec person I'm sure you favorite color is some form of Pink and yea, that's a pretty crappy choice.... Benny Ohu: No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Clystan: Eve is the game of chess in a universe of checkers. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1980
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Posted - 2012.11.14 17:54:00 -
[95] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: And yet many a high sec dweller rebels against the underlying reality of a game no one is forcing them to play. Rather than take the rational route of laying down the game for something better, they come to these forums and DEMAND modification to the game (regardless of the spirit of the game) for their (short sighted) comfort.
I don't recall having seen 1/100 of the hi seccers DEMANDS to change the game vs how many null seccers are constantly making.
Quote: So, null sec people made incursions with pay outs almost the same (not counting LP) as what you can get in upgrade null sec?
Blue balls = low conflict = higher safety => high sec alike profit.
The fact it's your alliance and not Concord making it the equivalent of hi sec does not change the unavoidable destiny to make payouts as low as hi sec. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
827
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Posted - 2012.11.14 17:58:00 -
[96] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Remove bounties from mission rats, keep mission rewards at the same level. That way mission runners will still have isk for LP turn in & it will actually give them a reason to loot & salvage. come to think of it, this is acceptable too, but the npc ships themselves need some kind of reward aside from just salvage, maybe a chance to drop faction items? albeit extremely low? (at the same time lowering a bit the price of some faction modules that are not even better than their t2 counterparts) and a just slightly increase on the rewards from the agent, i m thinking of something like lvl 1 = 500 k isk and 500 lp lvl 2 = 1 m isk and 1000 lp lvl 3 = 2 m isk and 2000 lp lvl 4 = 5 m isk and 4000 lp lvl 5 = 10 m isk and 1000 lp
except then mission rewards are effectively cut in half. and thus, dead profession. |
Lord Zim
1953
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Posted - 2012.11.14 18:42:00 -
[97] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:I don't recall having seen 1/100 of the hi seccers DEMANDS to change the game vs how many null seccers are constantly making. Pretty sure people who are in nullsec are more likely to be invested in the game than joe random hisec guy, and as such will spend more time thinking about what needs to be done to improve the gameplay itself.
Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
406
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Posted - 2012.11.14 18:57:00 -
[98] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: And yet many a high sec dweller rebels against the underlying reality of a game no one is forcing them to play. Rather than take the rational route of laying down the game for something better, they come to these forums and DEMAND modification to the game (regardless of the spirit of the game) for their (short sighted) comfort.
I don't recall having seen 1/100 of the hi seccers DEMANDS to change the game vs how many null seccers are constantly making.
Then you aren't looking. As in real life politics (where people ignore the faults of their preferred candidates but concntrate on the faults of the opponent) you see only that which you agree with.
I see a lot of "EVE would get so many more subs if" type posts (as an example), and you can go back through the last 2 months of postings and see thread after thread about ganking, miner bumping, griefing ect ect ect.
The other mistake your making is thinking these forums are popular the VAST majority of eve players will never even look at these forums,let alone post here. You are looking at maybe a few dozen to a couple hunderd null sec or high sec players posting here. What you see here is simply the most vocal parts of the community.
Quote:Quote: So, null sec people made incursions with pay outs almost the same (not counting LP) as what you can get in upgrade null sec?
Blue balls = low conflict = higher safety => high sec alike profit. The fact it's your alliance and not Concord making it the equivalent of hi sec does not change the unavoidable destiny to make payouts as low as hi sec.
Evidence that you don't understand what is being discussed. I rat in null with a mach and run in incursion fleets in empire with a make. With no disruptions like neutrals coming through, the null sec mach gets 35 to 40 mil per "wallet tick" (105 to 120 mil per hour) as opposed to the 90 to 100 mil I make doing incursions which are almost never disrupted.
that's the point, as much as I love and will continue doing this high sec incursions with some great guys in the communities I fly with, and honest and unselfish evaluation of the way of things says that just ain't right at all, my Alliance had to take major pains to upgrade my ratting system, and to defend it, where as the incursion FC just has to post "HQ fleet starting, guys X up" and make sure the logistics guys are awake and no one is war-decced lol, all under the protection of CONCORD.
*not advocating further incursion nerfs just point out a serious imbalance*
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
Super Stallion
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.11.14 19:23:00 -
[99] - Quote
Typhis Deterious wrote:You have the choice to do them and make the same money as carebears. You CHOOSE not to do them just as they CHOOSE to do them.
It's all choice and is not like you are being excluded. SO the idea of cutting bounties on NPCs only affects some, but not those who do no pve.
Tell me again how that is a fair system?
Rage against it all you want, but ISK can only be introduced into the system by PvE activities. By definition, if you are not involved with PvE, you are not generating inflation. Therefore, those who are doing PvE will feel the full force of any adjustments against inflation. Those not involved in PvE will only be affected by secondary effects.
As for it being fair? hmmm, fairness is irrelevant.
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
22
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Posted - 2012.11.15 20:49:00 -
[100] - Quote
Devon Krah'tor wrote: to all hard core hiseccers, I'm sorry but you should be making the lowest income in the game. You all know it, you just don't want to admit it publicly. Its inherently unfair that you recieve max protection, and pay nothing for it.
I will admit it. High sec should be less profitable than other areas of the game.
Unfortunately, how can CCP implement this without EXPLODING the wallet balances of the mega 0.0 alliances?
Players made 0.0 as safe as high sec. Therefore, the prices of the 0.0 minerals have been driven down to the level of high sec minerals. Players PVE in 0.0 as much or more than high sec, meaning that making 0.0 insanely profitable was creating massive ISK balance increase.
Remove L4s from high sec... okay, and deflation causes prices to fall to the new afordability level as set by L3 missions.
Nerf high sec belts, okay, then they belts get mined out shortly after they are respawned and high sec inhabitants have nothing to do all day and no reason to have 2-3 alt accounts.
Even if you are successful in getting a significant portion of carebears out of high sec and into 0.0, then they mine all day when there is no non-blue and station up as soon as a non-blue enters system.... what have we gained. How is this 'more fun' to play EVE with the carebears stationed up all day?
How does this cause more people to sign up to play EVE?
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LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
26
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Posted - 2012.11.15 20:51:00 -
[101] - Quote
Super Stallion wrote:Typhis Deterious wrote:You have the choice to do them and make the same money as carebears. You CHOOSE not to do them just as they CHOOSE to do them.
It's all choice and is not like you are being excluded. SO the idea of cutting bounties on NPCs only affects some, but not those who do no pve.
Tell me again how that is a fair system? Rage against it all you want, but ISK can only be introduced into the system by PvE activities. By definition, if you are not involved with PvE, you are not generating inflation. Therefore, those who are doing PvE will feel the full force of any adjustments against inflation. Those not involved in PvE will only be affected by secondary effects. As for it being fair? hmmm, fairness is irrelevant.
Insurance payouts?
And there are two factors that combine to create inflation... supply and demand. Something that...oh... causes less boom, could also reduce inflation. |
Josef Djugashvilis
Acme Mining Corporation
752
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Posted - 2012.11.15 22:45:00 -
[102] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Remove bounties from mission rats, keep mission rewards at the same level. That way mission runners will still have isk for LP turn in & it will actually give them a reason to loot & salvage.
Yup, I need more metal scraps This is not a signature. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
710
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Posted - 2012.11.16 11:08:00 -
[103] - Quote
I agree with OP. High sec bounties should be eliminated. In nullsec we have sov bills to pay - this is a massive ISK sink. Where is the high sec isk sink? |
Harbingour
EVE Corporation 690846961
3
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Posted - 2012.11.16 16:09:00 -
[104] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:I agree with OP. High sec bounties should be eliminated. In nullsec we have sov bills to pay - this is a massive ISK sink. Where is the high sec isk sink?
Market TAXES Meta-gaming for NULL SECCers: Whine on the forums until CCP gets sick of you and hands you everything you ask for just to shut you up. Typical NULL SEC arguement to NERF HI SEC-á-á http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csPPqdbcVwM
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OT Smithers
BLOMI
353
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Posted - 2012.11.16 17:11:00 -
[105] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Some Rando wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:The PVPers want easy targets and are demanding changes in the game that they think will create more easy targets. They are wrong. People will not play a game where they are little more than easy targets for PVPers to kill. Attempt to make more easy targets, you simply get fewer players. Don't be an easy target. vOv Also, Dinsdale alt detected. The easiest way to not be an easy target is to play a different game. Then you do not have a target at all. Correct. Which is the option that the carebears will take if the PVPers force game changes that they think will make carebears easy targets. I do not understand how people do not get this.
Many of us do. |
Marharto Kaitanau
Longbow Trading
1
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Posted - 2012.11.16 17:29:00 -
[106] - Quote
So it seems obvious that Sov bill are too low and isk concentrators like moon mining are the real problem.
If you want to deal with the preception of "inflation" deal with the real problem --- plex -- they encourage wealthy players to inject their sequestered cash into the economy -- right into the hands of newbie pilots for their next fail fit instant gratification pvp romp.
If you think ship prices are too high --- mine and build your own -- or at the very least stop messing with the miners >> i'm looking at you jimmy-quarter-past-3.
High prices on one segment of the market does not indicate inflation --- it indicates the difficulty to do business.
Mar- |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
938
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Posted - 2012.11.16 18:01:00 -
[107] - Quote
All you need is to remove from the game players concerned about inflation/deflation, suddenly trillions of isk would simply disappear.
brb |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
712
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Posted - 2012.11.17 14:10:00 -
[108] - Quote
Marharto Kaitanau wrote:So it seems obvious that Sov bill are too low
I have no idea where GP gets 800 million isk for sov bills, considering a single system is 84 million a month without any upgrades. Believe me there is more than 10 claimed systems in nullsec. Maybe he's just comparing his alliance with all of the NPC market in high sec? |
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
643
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Posted - 2012.11.17 15:23:00 -
[109] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Marharto Kaitanau wrote:So it seems obvious that Sov bill are too low I have no idea where GP gets 800 million isk for sov bills, considering a single system is 180 million a month without any upgrades. Believe me there is more than 10 claimed systems in nullsec. Maybe he's just comparing his alliance with all of the NPC market in high sec? Sov Bills: 809 billion / day transaction tax and broker fees / 5 trillion a day.
Edit for clarity.
Interdict Hi-Sec - it's the only way to be sure... |
Harland White
Circle of Fortune
13
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Posted - 2012.11.17 15:53:00 -
[110] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Remove bounties from mission rats, keep mission rewards at the same level. That way mission runners will still have isk for LP turn in & it will actually give them a reason to loot & salvage.
"They don't play the game like I do! PUNISH THEM CCP!" |
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psycho freak
Snuff Box
18
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Posted - 2012.11.17 16:12:00 -
[111] - Quote
I see all this crap from ppl isk sink this nurf bountys and inflation that
boll#cks eve is a game were most us like to kill stuff do you realy wana spend longer grinding isk and less time blowing stuff up?
Can you rember years ago when it was an achivment to earn a bill isk and t2 mods cost fortune rember old bcu2s going for 15m a pop do you realy wana go back to that?
stop the fu#king whineing and play the damn game
what will be will be adapt or gtfo |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1765
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Posted - 2012.11.17 16:13:00 -
[112] - Quote
psycho freak wrote:I see all this crap from ppl isk sink this nurf bountys and inflation that
boll#cks eve is a game were most us like to kill stuff do you realy wana spend longer grinding isk and less time blowing stuff up?
Can you rember years ago when it was an achivment to earn a bill isk and t2 mods cost fortune rember old bcu2s going for 15m a pop do you realy wana go back to that?
stop the fu#king whineing and play the damn game
what will be will be adapt or gtfo Maybe we should. At least maybe it would stop other people from blobbing titans because they become too ~elite~ Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
psycho freak
Snuff Box
18
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Posted - 2012.11.17 17:46:00 -
[113] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:psycho freak wrote:I see all this crap from ppl isk sink this nurf bountys and inflation that
boll#cks eve is a game were most us like to kill stuff do you realy wana spend longer grinding isk and less time blowing stuff up?
Can you rember years ago when it was an achivment to earn a bill isk and t2 mods cost fortune rember old bcu2s going for 15m a pop do you realy wana go back to that?
stop the fu#king whineing and play the damn game
what will be will be adapt or gtfo Maybe we should. At least maybe it would stop other people from blobbing titans because they become too ~elite~
Yea like all your guys bought all your supers running lvl 4s nothing to do with moon goo i supose ;-) |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1059
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Posted - 2012.11.17 18:25:00 -
[114] - Quote
Harbingour wrote:SOV fees = 800 million ISK
For just a system. Put in some upgrades & that number skyrockets. Some of the good ones want 300mil a day, multiply that by 100 or so. Crimewatch 2.0: Protecting stupid people & rewarding lazy people. This hurts the smart & industrious people by making their intelligence & industry provide them with less benefit over the stupid & lazy people. ~ Ruby Porto |
Borascus
Red Core Paradigm Shift Alliance
106
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Posted - 2012.11.17 20:15:00 -
[115] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
That's dumb, by that definition 99.999 # of players and most DEVs haven't either lol.
This is one of the best points about EVE, if you're unable to live as above you're more bored than the poster. In the interest of elaborating my point to avoid directly insulting you** individually I'll refer to the sandbox mechanic, the label of megalomaniac that was applied to Populous players way back when and the foundations of an "EVE is real" manifesto.
If anyone has done everything that there is to do in a freeform arena with different cultures represented everywhere they've limited what was available. I'd prefer it if 99.9 recurring % of the playerbase hadn't done everything, I'd be likely to have an experience and walk into / invite someone into an experience - indirectly. But hey it's an MMO, if it was a walkthrough 3d scroller in space.......
When Populous came out the idea was a standard format: build city from scratch, deal with surprises (baby-blap's), conduct the best visage of a city your way. As a result people adapted to the notion that their way was the best, this in turn drove social values, with the majority of 'right' ways being stratified. The term megalomaniac was used to directly address individuals who believed their own 'right way' was the limit of functionality at the upper edge of the achievable.
I understand that the posters reference to "done it all babe,..." was an experiential reference to rights of passage. EVE is a lot more diverse than it's available scripts, and the idea of bounties being cut proportionately - dependent on the location and profitability of that area - would ensure limitation in the sandbox.
Having the most ISK in-game isn't directly profitable as it's ingame. As a preparatory method making a massive amount of ISK as soon as possible is a precaution, facilitator and enabler all in one.
Personally, I've understood that null-bears pay $/-ú/currency for PLEX to make sweeping moves or keep ships up, others have prepared for that and farmed the ISK before hand, I've had billions, had 10's of thousands of ISK and loads of ships. The most profitable is having the -ú/$/currency available to make sure someone else is able to take part in a big sweeping move, at the same time I'm carrying out / taking part in / struggling to keep up with other big sweeping moves, by buying their PLEX when they need it.
Nerfing bounties would require CCP's already obtained informatics on the market, CCP's already obtained supply and demand figures etc....
It's a nice topic to discuss, but I'm still sure its a knee-jerk to the observed market more than a request to change bounties.
For example, I bought 2 PLEX at -ú14.99 each less discount at the website, sold them for a slightly lower than buy order rate and have subsequently bought one back off the market at the lowest rate available. CCP got an extra month of subscription (pound for pound) someone had a. tension alleviated b. higher investment in market control. I sat on some ISK, maybe walked away 10mil ISK higher than when I started, but.... someone else wanted the ISK when they sold me back a PLEX. Which I then removed from the market by putting it on my account.
**you = anyone reading it in it's entirety. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
868
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Posted - 2012.11.17 20:40:00 -
[116] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:Ok yes, there is some inflation. But I don't consider it 'natural' inflation because it was either caused by deliberate changes in game design or by deliberate player actions to raise prices.
The mineral prices went up because CCP changed loot drops. T2 prices went up because of OTEC. Some fuel prices went up because of the Goon ice interdiction. Goons also affected mineral prices with Hulkageddon.
But all those factors are intended effects of either CCP or player groups, so they are not a catastrophe that needs fixing, like runaway inflation in a real economy.
Besides, prices have fallen a lot from where they were at the height of speculation...
With Tech falling they should drop a fair bit more. |
SmilingVagrant
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
868
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Posted - 2012.11.17 20:41:00 -
[117] - Quote
psycho freak wrote:[quote=Alavaria Fera]
Yea like all your guys bought all your supers running lvl 4s nothing to do with moon goo i supose ;-)
Most of our supers are privately funded actually, the alliance only picks up the cost of some of the modules. |
Bane Necran
Appono Astos
728
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Posted - 2012.11.17 20:58:00 -
[118] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:I agree with OP. High sec bounties should be eliminated. In nullsec we have sov bills to pay - this is a massive ISK sink. Where is the high sec isk sink?
That's not what the OP said, at all.
It should be across the board. Nullbears generate more inflation than anyone in hisec.
"It's no use crying over spilt milk, because all the forces of the universe were bent on spilling it." ~William Maugham |
Oopsy Bear
Massively Masochistic Machos
10
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Posted - 2012.11.17 21:00:00 -
[119] - Quote
The game is always going to have isk faucets and isk sinks. I'm going to guess that the vast majority of people throwing in their $0.02 have a knowledge of economics that encompasses how to spell the word and little else (myself included). Tossing in your idea and calling it a day is possibly helpful to the people at CCP that do know something about economics. Arguing with passion rather than sense likely isn't as helpful.
Also, I think the bikeshed should be purple. |
Lord Zim
1991
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Posted - 2012.11.17 21:04:00 -
[120] - Quote
Purple with white polkadots. Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home. |
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