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Eridanii
Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita
10
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Posted - 2012.11.18 19:03:00 -
[31] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Theorycrafting around bombers is cool, however theorycrafting around ships able to spank those ass is the best way to start to then figure the bombers buff in fact it's not really one. They're not either getting nerf, they will be at a status quo of their current situation which is rather balanced.
As far as balance, I think they aren't as useful as they should be. This change makes them a bit more useful. They can still be popped by a lot of ships but I think these changes open up the list of targets people would be willing to uncloak and fight against. Should see more bombers killed and more ships killed by bombers. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
950
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Posted - 2012.11.18 23:37:00 -
[32] - Quote
Eridanii wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Theorycrafting around bombers is cool, however theorycrafting around ships able to spank those ass is the best way to start to then figure the bombers buff in fact it's not really one. They're not either getting nerf, they will be at a status quo of their current situation which is rather balanced. As far as balance, I think they aren't as useful as they should be. This change makes them a bit more useful. They can still be popped by a lot of ships but I think these changes open up the list of targets people would be willing to uncloak and fight against. Should see more bombers killed and more ships killed by bombers.
Well I didn't said it in my previous post because I thought it was implied that you would understand it, but as far as I'm concerned by this buff, and I do because I use those in a regular basis, with OGB/Dead Space mods/combat boosters these ships will make a lot of talk about, probably too much because when you can easily kill frigates with a ship delivering so much dps at such stupid ranges it will obviously become a ship people will tend to fly over many others.
You will then be able to cumulate (while OGB is still available, and this will not change next year) Cloack ability, long range points, interceptors speed, battles cruiser dps, capable to annihilate frigate sized ships at even longer range than now and still fit bombs.
If no one sees any problem with this then I'm ok. brb |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
207
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Posted - 2012.11.18 23:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Eridanii wrote:Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:Theorycrafting around bombers is cool, however theorycrafting around ships able to spank those ass is the best way to start to then figure the bombers buff in fact it's not really one. They're not either getting nerf, they will be at a status quo of their current situation which is rather balanced. As far as balance, I think they aren't as useful as they should be. This change makes them a bit more useful. They can still be popped by a lot of ships but I think these changes open up the list of targets people would be willing to uncloak and fight against. Should see more bombers killed and more ships killed by bombers. Well I didn't said it in my previous post because I thought it was implied that you would understand it, but as far as I'm concerned by this buff, and I do because I use those in a regular basis, with OGB/Dead Space mods/combat boosters these ships will make a lot of talk about, probably too much because when you can easily kill frigates with a ship delivering so much dps at such stupid ranges it will obviously become a ship people will tend to fly over many others. You will then be able to cumulate (while OGB is still available, and this will not change next year) Cloack ability, long range points, interceptors speed, battles cruiser dps, capable to annihilate frigate sized ships at even longer range than now and still fit bombs. If no one sees any problem with this then I'm ok.
^ This.
Stealth bombers should be exactly that, Bombers. Useful to come out of stealth and take out or wound very large targets, but should be vulnerable to small / mid sized ships. Namely because they already are stealthers with speed and firepower to start. |
Songbird
61
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Posted - 2012.11.19 10:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
everybody uses ogb - come on - you know the old saying - if you're not cheating you're not trying hard enough. Those guys in battlecruisers killed by a bomber are just too lazy to get a proper setup. I'm sure the bomber guy ignored a lot of targets defended by interceptors or a loki with long web or some similar way. That's the beauty of sb- you choose your targets . |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
951
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Posted - 2012.11.19 14:51:00 -
[35] - Quote
Songbird wrote:everybody uses ogb
That's why it's terrible for the game and needs to get nerf to the ground and beyond that. OGB is for sure the major factor of why so many stupid anger misunderstanding and bad talking about Tengus and in general T3 ships.
It's undeniable T3 command sub needs a huge nerf stick right in the face but every other configuration of whatever T3 becomes a true killing machine when you add overpowered off grid boosting (T3) on top of already exponentially powerful dead space mods. The video you just linked clearly show how bad this is for the game:
-A stealth bomber with AB at 4km/s speed? -A stealth bomber with 40Km+ point?
Add shield links+implants and it's obvious it becomes an overpowered tool, none should be able to cumulate so many self positive effects and if this now is still possible it's only because of a terrible game mechanic implementation=OGB
This is in no shape or form something valuable to this game. It makes it only look like those old private servers where random pawn could create his own character with specific attributes instaklling everything while having little risk to die. It's nothing more than than an authorised hack witch leads me once again to observe how silly this game is witch such potential being wasted with such poor man mechanics. Not requiring any sort of positive intellectual to make those mechanics work at best for you but rather some sort of perverted or marginal intellectual state of mind. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to be any sort of paladin of whatsoever or trying to moralise this game, first because it would be a pure waste of my time and I've got better to do, and second because someone with a couple neurons working correctly and reading this forum would clearly see how much Darwin would be convulsed in his coffin if he could ever read it. brb |
Songbird
61
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Posted - 2012.11.19 16:02:00 -
[36] - Quote
yeah ogb is terribly broken - that's why I called it cheating. OTH they make money from those ofb accounts and probably will never change the mechanic. And boy do I wish it went away. - all these command ships will see some use. But then again it is in the spirit of the game - the prepared, the rich, the one with extra isk to sponsor such off grid booster are also the ones who have purchased the IWin button. I'm sure they will continue to win even if it became on grid booster- they'll put in the effort and find the tactic and purchase the ships and probably practice a lot. They just won't have the ace up their sleeve but it will be right there on the table - for you to counter it, but still an ace. After all would it matter if the booster is 20 AU away or 200 km away - you still won't be able to reach it - sitting out there out of your reach - ready to warp away at the first sign of trouble while the combat ships are in your face killing ya :P. |
Zyella Stormborn
Alpha Strategy In Umbra Mortis
207
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Posted - 2012.11.19 16:13:00 -
[37] - Quote
http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73530
wrote:As a side note, as we announced a while ago, we are not pleased by having Warfare Links work outside the battlefield zone, and will be investigating options to move them on grid. Command and Tech3 ships providing that much of an advantage should commit to an engagement instead of being safely parked inside a POS bubble.
\0/
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Matthias Vilmet
Parallax Shift The Periphery
1
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Posted - 2012.11.20 14:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
Eridanii wrote:So with the changes to all missile skills, implants, and rigs affecting all sub-cap missiles, it seems that Stealth Bombers are going to be a whole lot more useful in a few weeks. Right now their DPS is laughable at most ships below BC's due to the 450m explosion radius of torps. By my calculations, you can reduce that to about 203m with level 5 guided missile skill, a 6% implant, and two Rigor Catalyst II rigs on your bomber. With a standard crash booster, you're looking at 162m!!! Welcome to the full force of torpedos against cruiser sized targets (assuming they are moving slowly...). Small ships who are smart can still speed-tank well against the bomber, unless we see some brave bomber pilots fitting webs :-X One TP should effectively replace the gain of the booster for those of you who don't partake in the smuggling of contraband goods. Should see some amazing alpha damage combined with a bomb launcher (which keeps its 400m explosion radius).
Am I missing something?
You are missing the fact that Rigor Catalyst and Guided Missile Precision only work for guided missiles, light, heavy, and cruise missiles.
Javelins are better to use anyway, because they will do higher actual damage. |
Gypsio III
Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
435
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Posted - 2012.11.20 15:55:00 -
[39] - Quote
Eridanii wrote:Gypsio III wrote:Eridanii wrote: I forgot they were changing the T2 missiles as well. Makes Rages even worse for a bomber. But most people don't look into the details
If you had looked at the details, you'd have realised that an explosion radius of 600 m (actually it's 580.5 m with GMP V) is better than one of 650 m... What exactly are you talking about?
You stated that Rage would be "even worse for a bomber". This is wrong. |
Matthias Vilmet
Parallax Shift The Periphery
1
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Posted - 2012.11.20 15:58:00 -
[40] - Quote
Rages are worse for a bomber. On everything smaller than a battleship. Which is what most people fly. Might as well go with Javelins, which do better damage across the board .... AND have amazing range. |
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Gypsio III
Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
435
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Posted - 2012.11.20 16:14:00 -
[41] - Quote
Matthias Vilmet wrote:Eridanii wrote:So with the changes to all missile skills, implants, and rigs affecting all sub-cap missiles, it seems that Stealth Bombers are going to be a whole lot more useful in a few weeks. Right now their DPS is laughable at most ships below BC's due to the 450m explosion radius of torps. By my calculations, you can reduce that to about 203m with level 5 guided missile skill, a 6% implant, and two Rigor Catalyst II rigs on your bomber. With a standard crash booster, you're looking at 162m!!! Welcome to the full force of torpedos against cruiser sized targets (assuming they are moving slowly...). Small ships who are smart can still speed-tank well against the bomber, unless we see some brave bomber pilots fitting webs :-X One TP should effectively replace the gain of the booster for those of you who don't partake in the smuggling of contraband goods. Should see some amazing alpha damage combined with a bomb launcher (which keeps its 400m explosion radius).
Am I missing something? You are missing the fact that Rigor Catalyst and Guided Missile Precision only work for guided missiles, light, heavy, and cruise missiles.
You are missing the fact that Rigours and GMP will affect all subcap missiles in a few weeks. |
Matthias Vilmet
Parallax Shift The Periphery
1
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Posted - 2012.11.20 16:18:00 -
[42] - Quote
oh can you link that! |
Matthias Vilmet
Parallax Shift The Periphery
1
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Posted - 2012.11.20 16:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
Javelin's still better. While you spent all that time wasting rig space to make the rage missiles do the damage of the javelins.... you forget that you can increase the DPS of the javelins instead.
Although, against battleships, with a 580.5 explosion radius, Rage Torps are now a ltitle better. |
Gypsio III
Chemikals Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
435
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Posted - 2012.11.20 16:58:00 -
[44] - Quote
Matthias Vilmet wrote:oh can you link that!
Summarised on first page of this thread. Note the googledoc link with specific numbers. Don't try to read the rest of the 300-odd pages, it's literally the worst thing on the internet.
For Rage torps, their base explosion radius is going up a bit, but with GMP trained, their current 650 m explosion radius will fall to 580.5 m. Still tricky to apply it all, but certainly easier than before.
Also summarised in recent blevdog.
Quote:All missile skills, rigs and implants will now affect all subcapital missiles across the board.
An unwarranted boost to rockets IMO, but we'll see. |
Eridanii
Firebird Squadron Terra-Incognita
10
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Posted - 2012.11.22 11:49:00 -
[45] - Quote
Faction missiles still do more damage than Javelins, and don't have the added con of having to fit T2 launchers. Their range (60km) is plenty for the engagement range of a bomber. Unless you have an Arazu in support, you're going to need to be closer than 28km anyway (the overheated range of a T2 point). Jav's would be good for a small gang of bombers + an Arazu or two to make sure you can't be targeted or for firing pot shots at 90km when you're supporting a regular gang. |
ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation Unclaimed.
267
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Posted - 2012.11.22 12:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
Whats all this chatter about? A stealth bomber will do some more dmg to smaller things, but still not enough to be a real threat on its own. It will however be awesome adding dps in a frig/des roam.
Also for 0.0 belt ratting its going to be even better (T2 launchers, BCU's, AB, TP's) - Nulla Curas |
Kan'loch Lacoud
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
21
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Posted - 2012.11.25 18:29:00 -
[47] - Quote
I like how no one in this thread has any idea on how to actually fit or fly a bomber. |
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery Swift Angels Alliance
614
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Posted - 2012.11.26 03:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
I noticed that too.
It amazes me how many people lose bombers so regularly. For a start, they think DPS wins the game from the get-go, so simply undocking in a tankless DPS boat like a bomber means instant win, right? Thus they pop.
I've seen faction-fitted solo bombers. There's a couple of guys who make a career out of camping wormholes for ganks with pimped bombers. When we saw them in the hole they both managed to kill a T1 hauler each, then we got them. I killed one (380M killmail) and a 2 month old noob in my corp killed the other guy with a T1 crappy fit Moa (290M killmail + expensive pod). One of the guys hadn't lost a bomber that I could tell in 6 months.
So what, you say? Well, pimping and OGBing your bomber (where I agree totally with Yin Long Borovska) only does so much. The key is picking idiots to shoot who have no idea what they are doing, are a weak target, and where you know no one is logged off in, eg, the ladar site you are attacking the bait gassing Ferox with T1 hobbies. Attacking actually decent PVP-thinking people and it doesn't matter how much you pimp your ship, you'll die in a fire and make their killboard look great.
This discussion about bombers blotting out the sun? Nothing about the bomber has changed. Nothing. It is still a tankless DPS ship, you will apply a smidge more DPS to smaller targets, but the moment you get sneezed on, you are toast. Taking submissions for "Trinkets friendly Advice Column" via evemail or private convo in-game. Anonymity sorta guaranteed.
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