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Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.04.18 21:12:00 - [1] Edited by: Ticondrius on 19/04/2005 15:32:58 Ok, first off, I am by no means an expert, so if you find errors or think I'm missing something, then by all means tell me and I'll add or fix it. As for my qualifications, I've worked in 3 POS projects in the past, and am now CEO of a corporation that is involved with NAGA's POS operations as part of the Stepstone organization. ###################################################### First, let's look at moons themselves. The problem here isn't so much finding moons with good materials, the problem is not enough variety in moons. We find countless moons with the most common stuff, that's well and good, where are the moons that have a 3, or even higher, density on the low end materials? Even in 0.0 the 3 density moons are very rare, but who's going to waste time on a POS out there for the common materials? As for the rarest stuff, you can find it in 0.0, occasionally...After some 500+ moons surveyed. These need to appear in empire space as well, but only at a density of 1, while increasing the densities in 0.0. So in short, As CCP intended, Moons in 0.0 are likly to yield the rarest materials availible, however, not in any great quantity, making it hard to turn a profit, however, some changes came in the last patch that helped solve this somewhat. I'll get to that shortly. ...And Moons in low security empire space have an abundance of moons with the low to mid-range materials, but you may need to get more than a few moons to create any useful reactions. ###################################################### To continue on Moons, let's go over Moon Surveying. In your inital planning and setup phase, you will need too, and probably will, survey MANY, MANY moons. You will need a ship that: -Has a LOT of cargo space -Can run gate blockades (Or have and use instas) -Can fit the scan probe launcher (OMG! 250 CPU! 0_0) This means you will need a cruiser or better to even begin to think about doing this. Also, the scan probe launcher is NOT considered a missile launcher, so you can fit it on any ship that has the CPU to do so. Many people recommend a Industrial, but of course they're ganked fairly easy. Remember, you can only deploy a POS in 0.3 and below..pirate and PvPer city. You NEED to be able to get in and out of the system you're working in. If you want to go the Industrial route, I recommend using a Transport ship, more specifically, the one for your skill that has the +2 to warp core stability.Don't plan on using a full rack of cargo expanders either, perhaps just enough to fit in 2 giant secure cans and a tiny bit more space. With about 6200m3 of space, you can fit in 2 giant cans, giving you a total of 8000m3 of space, leaving 200m3 outside the cans for reloading. The other option, is a cruiser or battleship. Scanning in a battleship just isn't practical. Sure, you can have lots of drones and some weapons, but the 250CPU used by the probe launcher really gimps any kind of defense fitting. Additionally, a battleship is damned slow. You fit a few cargo expanders for your probes, and it will go slower than a dead Hippo. The best option overall, IMHO, is a cruiser, and of all cruisers, the Exequror specifically. "WTH is an Exequror?" you ask, well, it's a Gallente Cruiser that gets an insane cargo bonus. At cruiser V, it has a base cargo of 900m3. With 1 or 2 expanders and maybe 1 or 2 large secure cans, you can fit quite a lot of probes, and still be able to fit a MWD and some nanofibres. You also have a decent drone bay to load up on light or medium drones, and enough CPU/grid left to fit a reasonable defensive/ECM fitting. Essentially, you're able to reasonably defend yourself, carry enough probes to make it worthwhile, and warp/move quickly...all on considerably less training and skills than what's needed to fly a Transport Ship. You don't need cruiser V to make this work. Once you have your ship, you need to get some probes. Don't waste time training skills you are not likely to use ever again, or if you do, very rarely. Train for the 40 minute probes, and no more. Why? They're small, 50m3, and by the time you've launched probes at all of the moons on one planet, more than half will have already reported in thier results. It will take you not more than 1-2 hrs to survey a 50+ moon system, with the 10 min probes, maybe 1-1.4 hrs. Just not worth it. If you plan to use the system scanning probes, however, by all means, train to the max, I'm just telling you that you really don't need to for Moon Surveying. <Continued> "If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault." (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.04.18 21:13:00 - [2] Edited by: Ticondrius on 19/04/2005 15:49:03 The process is fairly simple. Originally it was thought you had to stay within "range" of the probe, where the range was whatb was stated on the probe's attributes. We now know this to be false. You can launch probes at one moon after another without stopping until you've launched on every single moon in the system, then park your ship by a moon or planet, or even a safespot, while you wait for the last few results to come in. Just warp to a moon, try to aim your ship towards it as best you can, and launch the probe. After 40 mins, the results, if any, will show up in your Moon Scanning panel in your scanner tool. Where is that? Just click the icon on the left of your ship info doodad that looks like a small radar screen. Once you begin getting back results, remember that if you DOCK, EJECT, LEAVE THE SYSTEM, or cause any other kind of session change, your results are LOST. The best way I've found to do it, especially when you need to share the information, is to make a bookmark of the moon and in the BM info, add in the moon's material info. You then have a solid copy of the data which you can copy and share as needed within the game. I do, however, highly recommend that after ever survey session you grab a small can and copy all of your day's results into it to help avoid loss. If you organize the BMs into cans according to how you have them in thier folders, it will be that much easier to restore lost Bookmark folders if you're ever bugged. You will occasionally find other POS, and some of these are set to shoot all non-corp members. ALWAYS assume the worst. Warp to the planets and scan from their using your normal scanner set to max range and 360 degree search. You can narrow it down to which moon the POS is on by putting moons in your overview, and using the range from there in the scanner to determine which one the POS is on. You can lose your ship if you are not careful! One last thing about surverying. Bookmark EVERY Ice Field you find, and in THOSE bookmarks, list the type of ice found there. Even if you don't plan on mining your own ice at first, you'll wish you had done this earlier when you finally do begin mining it yourself. ###################################################### Ok, now you have a horde of Moon survey results, know where tons of icefields are, and probably have a pretty good idea of where to start. This is the data analyasis phase of your project. When you finish, you'll have selected the best site(s) for you to deploy at based on several factors. The first factor, is your tower. Each race's towers use different isotopes to fuel themselves. Amarr:Helium Isotopes Gallente:Oxygen Isotopes Caldari:Nitrogen Isotopes Minmatar:Hydrogen Isotopes Also, each tower has different bonuses, but keep in mind you have to wiegh the bonuses against the costs of importing fuel (either by purchasing or mining it far from your tower) if the ice nearby is the wrong type for your tower. Of the following Ice ores, you will only find the better ores in 0.0 space. Quote: Blue Ice Heavy Water: 100 Liquid Ozone: 50 Stronthium Clathrate: 1 Oxygen Isotopes: 250 Thick Blue Ice Heavy Water: 100 Liquid Ozone: 50 Stronthium Clathrate: 1 Oxygen Isotopes: 350 Glacial Mass Heavy Water: 100 Liquid Ozone: 50 Stronthium Clathrate: 1 Hydrogen Isotopes: 250 Smooth Glacial Mass Heavy Water: 100 Liquid Ozone: 50 Stronthium Clathrate: 1 Hydrogen Isotopes: 350 Clear Icicle Heavy Water: 100 Liquid Ozone: 50 Stronthium Clathrate: 1 Helium Isotopes: 250 Enriched Clear Icicle Heavy Water: 100 Liquid Ozone: 50 Stronthium Clathrate: 1 Helium Isotopes: 350 White Glaze Heavy Water: 100 Liquid Ozone: 50 Stronthium Clathrate: 1 Nitrogen Isotopes: 250 Pristine White Glaze Heavy Water: 100 Liquid Ozone: 50 Stronthium Clathrate: 1 Nitrogen Isotopes: 350 Some other factors are things such as purpose of the POS. You might want it for military or normal mining support reasons as wel as just moon mining. You might want an Intensive Refining Array, which costs a LOT of CPU to run. That is covered in a later guide where I will discuss POS deployment. <Continued> "If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault." (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.04.18 21:14:00 - [3] Edited by: Ticondrius on 18/04/2005 21:15:34 Now, you need to sort out all your survey data by star system to find the system you are going to make the best profit on. It's highly unlikely you will find a buyer for raw materials, unless it's one of the most rare materials, such as Thulium, so you'll most likely need 2 or even 3 moons to get the raw materials needed to produce a Simple Reaction. If you can manage a Complex Reaction, you've hit paydirt, as the resulting Advanced Materials are used in factories directly to build Tech 2 construction components, and do not need a POS to further refine them, as Simple Reactions do, widening your market considerably. You could even go as far as to sell your Advanced Materials on the market directly. So, with all that in mind, the very MOMENT you decide on the moons you plan to claim, run out there ASAP and anchor a giant secure can at each moon. This helps to discourage someone else from deploying a POS at that spot while you are moving things into position. However, PLEASE do not do this if you are just wanting to hog moons. It's more an annoyance than anything, as I could probably shoot up your can in a few hours with a small group of Ravens and/or Tempests (explosive damage). Remember, it's just a way to DISCOURAGE someone from setting up before you do. ###################################################### Well, that's it. I'm planning on writing 3 more guides over the next couple days which will each have thier own topic. They will be on POS Deployment, POS Profitability, and Military Uses. "If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault." (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Tenashi	Posted - 2005.04.18 23:58:00 - [4] Sticky! Good guide, even made some sense to me Everlasting Vendetta - Search
Skelator	Posted - 2005.04.19 00:07:00 - [5] Edited by: Skelator on 19/04/2005 00:07:01 run out there ASAP and anchor a giant secure can at each moon. This helps to discourage someone else from deploying a POS at that spot while you are moving things into position. However, PLEASE do not do this if you are just wanting to hog moons Kinda dumb posting this trick as I can see the WTS forums in the next 6 months Want to sell promethium moon rights 500 million isk.. Lab slot hoarding scenario anyone? Al in all A Great Post Should be Stickied..! They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards
Tenashi	Posted - 2005.04.19 00:40:00 - [6] Originally by: Skelator Edited by: Skelator on 19/04/2005 00:07:01 run out there ASAP and anchor a giant secure can at each moon. This helps to discourage someone else from deploying a POS at that spot while you are moving things into position. However, PLEASE do not do this if you are just wanting to hog moons Kinda dumb posting this trick as I can see the WTS forums in the next 6 months Want to sell promethium moon rights 500 million isk.. Lab slot hoarding scenario anyone? Al in all A Great Post Should be Stickied..! was said some where that it would be fixed, had the problem aswell but the guys were very kind to remove it after asking politly Everlasting Vendetta - Search
Reva Ortov	Posted - 2005.04.19 02:31:00 - [7] Question This system I have surveyed has 50 moons all but 2 have been checked. The last 2 give repeated communication probe failure 6 times each. Any thoughts or comments. I am using 40 min probes and all the other moons went fine. Thx
Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.04.19 03:51:00 - [8] If the planet is exceedingly small, you MUST get your ship aligned as absolutely exact as possible before launching. Difficult moons can take a ton of probes to get. Someone came up with the theory that tiny moons yield better materials, but I do not know if this is true or not. "If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault." (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Dloan	Posted - 2005.04.19 08:14:00 - [9] Originally by: Ticondrius If the planet is exceedingly small, you MUST get your ship aligned as absolutely exact as possible before launching. Difficult moons can take a ton of probes to get. Align the moon so it is at the edge of the screen so the graphic is "stretched". Click by the side of the selection box and 99% of the time you will have a good alignment so long as you let your ship finish moving into position. Quote: Someone came up with the theory that tiny moons yield better materials, but I do not know if this is true or not. Wishful thinking as far as my results go.
SPIONKOP	Posted - 2005.04.19 13:48:00 - [10] Edited by: SPIONKOP on 19/04/2005 13:48:31 Good set of notes wish I had been able to read this before I started on the 1100 moons I have now scanned. I have scanned around 1000 in empire and around 100 in 0.0 space. I negociated a deal with the gate campers to allow "safe" travel in 0.0 space. So far the moons in 0.0 space have been marginally better but no uber moons as yet. You will find on your travels other POS, some of these are set to shoot all non-corp/non-alliance members. Warp to the planets and scan from their using your normal scanner set to max range and 360 degree search. If you find other POS approach with caution, or leave well alone. You could soon lose your ship. As for Moon canning, if you block a moon with a can, you maybe advertsing a good moon and whats to stop another placing a can next to yours. Neither of you can then erect a POS. Have your control tower and other pos items and fuel located centrally with several corp members in haulers. Bookmark the dangerous part of the route and get moving and get the thing up asap. A large CT takes 1hr to get online then you got to add all the other bits such as guns and mining equipment etc Ticondrius, I would be interested to read your thoughts/recomendations on POS Weaponary and EW.
Dloan	Posted - 2005.04.19 14:46:00 - [11] One other thing, the Ice in 0.0 has changed name now to reflect that it gives better yields. White glaze is pristine now rather than impure, for example.
Reva Ortov	Posted - 2005.04.19 14:48:00 - [12] Thanks for all the info. The scans worked fine on those 2 moons.
Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.04.19 15:36:00 - [13] Edited by: Ticondrius on 19/04/2005 15:49:40 Added the bit about watching out for pontentially hostile POS, can't believe I overlooked that. Heh. EDIT: Got the new 0.0 Ice Ore names in. "If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault." (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Gangsta Boo	Posted - 2005.04.19 15:39:00 - [14] Good guide. I'm a fan of using the industrial ships for scanning. Fit all nanofibers on the lows. A fast warp is key. It's pretty hard to track somebody down when your only spending 15 seconds at each moon launching probes and then warping to the next. Also use a cloaking device. While you're waiting on your scan results to come in you can cloak and be nearly 100% safe.
Nirces Y'Tuk	Posted - 2005.04.19 21:53:00 - [15] Planet hoarding isn't an issue, its fairly easy to take out cans, takes a little time, but a single BS can take out a can in about 40minutes A friends corp cleared out a good moon they wanted that had 4 cans sitting in orbit the caladri destroyer can fit a scan probe laucher, plus mwd will good skills, found it best for scanning
Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.04.19 22:18:00 - [16] Edited by: Ticondrius on 19/04/2005 22:18:12 You won't survey more than 5 or 6 moons before you're out of probes, however. Also, the launcher does not need a launcher slot, you can fit it on anything, please note that no industrial has a launcher slot, yet the probe launcher fits on them. :) "If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault." (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Tauvo Crais	Posted - 2005.04.20 05:59:00 - [17] Is it .3 or .4 for the POS's? I have heard both but I can not find a source that tells it for sure. The item database on this website does not say what it is. Also, the item database does not say what the requirements are other then anchoring to setup a PoS. Is there any other skills that are required? Great guide and thanks for the info!
PiniclePanda	Posted - 2005.04.20 06:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Tauvo Crais Is it .3 or .4 for the POS's? I have heard both but I can not find a source that tells it for sure. The item database on this website does not say what it is. Also, the item database does not say what the requirements are other then anchoring to setup a PoS. Is there any other skills that are required? Great guide and thanks for the info! 0.3 or less. An old dev chat I read when they were originally discussing this said they were 95% confident of POSes being deployable in "0.0 - 0.4", and then maybe at a later date "0.5-0.7" with ballancing stuff (aka taxes). This was a pretty old dev chat, but some take it to mean it MIGHT mean they're going to extend it into 0.4 sometime. I want the fuel bug to be fixed first though (and the mining yield "bug" for moon harvesters on small CT)
Tauvo Crais	Posted - 2005.04.20 06:45:00 - [19] I was refering the the dev chat from here Look at almost the bottom of the post for this: Hakera> YaRisse> Will it be possible to setup Player Owned Stations within 0.1-0.4 Regions? Oveur> We had this discussion just today, and 0.1-0.4 is a 95% yes Oveur> if we can sort out the rest of the quirks associated with it, then it's in, cause we wan't to Oveur> and at this point in time, I wouldn't exclude 0.5-0.7 in exchange for a hefty "rent", where you buy the "moon mining rights" from the sovereignty Oveur> but these would be severely limited in what structures you could deploy there and a number of things would not be possible at all Oveur> I'd say ... 25% on those, at least in november release Again, I can't find anywhere in game that says we can not do it on .4 now but heck I can't find where it says .3 either
Saerid	Posted - 2005.04.20 11:33:00 - [20] On the 40 min scan duration probes: Do keep in mind if you lose connection or crash for whatever reason (any session change), you also lose connection to the probes. And obviously chances of that happening increase with the duration the probes must stay up to get their results. One reason I'm using the Discoveries (10 min scan duration). Scanned about 1800 moons so far and half of them in 0.0 in a Bestower fitted with 2 WCS,2 nanofibers and a cloak, for the most part only truly risky situations are on the exit side of gates (more specifically, gankageddons with sensor boosters can lock on an indy pretty fast). Easier to get tackled while you're accelerating into warp than landing on a gate as well. There's something to be said for expendable ships , the transport ships get a bit expensive if you lose one.
Cell Satimo	Posted - 2005.04.20 13:52:00 - [21] Another option to scanning with an indy is to use the indy to deliver giant cans full of probes to systems near where you want to scan. Anchor a few of those, then come back with your combat ship and scan away, returning to the can to load-up. Remember also that offline scan probe launchers can be used to 'hold' probes and effectively increase cargo space. \| Join eve-webring.com to promote your site.
Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.04.20 21:24:00 - [22] Originally by: Cell Satimo Remember also that offline scan probe launchers can be used to 'hold' probes and effectively increase cargo space. Nice tip, but watch CCP go and nerf ammo being loaded in offline modules next patch. "If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault." (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
TheOnyx	Posted - 2005.04.21 11:01:00 - [23] Is it possible to put up 2 POSes at 1 moon say 150-200 km from eachother if your not using harvesters ? Or is it just 1 POS per moon...? Asking because of some corps wanting to cooperate with eachother and both want a POS at the same moon....
Dantes Darkheart	Posted - 2005.04.21 11:17:00 - [24] 1 POS per moon. ====================================== Deklein Resident/POS Manager/Uber Hauler "I'm kept warm by my hatred of the POS implementation."
Ticondrius	Posted - 2005.04.21 11:58:00 - [25] Edited by: Ticondrius on 21/04/2005 12:02:09 "If I'm brutally honest and it offends you, that's not my fault." (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2005.05.31 20:05:00 - [26] Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 31/05/2005 20:06:12 Originally by: Cell Satimo Remember also that offline scan probe launchers can be used to 'hold' probes and effectively increase cargo space. Yes I do this with cap boosters. Im sick of finding buncha batteries when i loot, this is instant cargo expand. Also when I go to Empire to buy equipment its always funny to fly back to 00 in a Jaguar with 3x1400 Howitzers mounted lol. Which also means the cloak does not have to be on until you need it. Moon question. Each moon produces 2 things. That goes into the reactor. You were saying something about using stuff from 2 different moons to create complex reactions. How do you do this? Do you unload the harvester somehow into a hauler from moon 1, and then empty the hauler into the harvester at moon 2? The reaction is in the Reactor and that is fed by the Harvester right? ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
AnnaJoy	Posted - 2005.06.27 15:57:00 - [27] Edited by: AnnaJoy on 27/06/2005 15:57:16 Originally by: Imhotep Khem Edited by: Imhotep Khem on 31/05/2005 20:06:12 Moon question. Each moon produces 2 things. That goes into the reactor. You were saying something about using stuff from 2 different moons to create complex reactions. How do you do this? Do you unload the harvester somehow into a hauler from moon 1, and then empty the hauler into the harvester at moon 2? The reaction is in the Reactor and that is fed by the Harvester right? What you have to do is work with either a silo or a coupling array. you would likely leave the first harvestor pumping into the reactor. On the moon without the reactor you have the harvestor dump into a silo, when you need to empty the silo, you have to either offline it or have a coupling array or another silo to pour into. Pull out the materials from the first silo and run them over to the reactor and put the materials into the silo that isn't hooked into the harvestor and wallah, 2 moons, 1 reactor, and a simple reaction. Here is a little better picture to help Moon 1 Moon 2 Harvestor----------+ +----------Harvestor \| \| Reactor Silo \| \| Silo---------------+ \| \| \| +------------------------------Industrial-+ And while you are removing from the silo that is being fed by moon 2's harvestor, you need to have it go to either another silo or a coupling array. AnnaJoy
Trak Cranker	Posted - 2005.07.12 14:04:00 - [28] The "trick" with secure cans at moons is being regarded as an exploit by GMs. As it should be. Petition it under exploit and they will come and remove them asap. But remember that it is also a good sign to you as a probe scanner, that the moon will probably hold something more than Hydrogen Gases. :) Trak Cranker
Fire Hawk	Posted - 2005.07.14 18:11:00 - [29] Originally by: Trak Cranker The "trick" with secure cans at moons is being regarded as an exploit by GMs. As it should be. Petition it under exploit and they will come and remove them asap. But remember that it is also a good sign to you as a probe scanner, that the moon will probably hold something more than Hydrogen Gases. :) I confirm
Jim Lovell	Posted - 2005.09.03 23:25:00 - [30] When Im surveying moons I first warp to a planet or such, eject from my ship then scout the moons in my pod which wont be blow up by any hostile POS if they are there. It may be risky and even more so in low sec, but it a way whithout relying on the scanner.
Mordrake	Posted - 2005.11.16 07:14:00 - [31] I find the Cyclone to be a perfect moon probe launch platform.. it has a built in "Bore Sight" and I never miss a moon with the first probe no matter how small ; ] CNR Command Pilot - Commonwelth of Ekliptika "Arte et Marte"
Mordrake MetaForge	Posted - 2005.11.16 07:14:00 - [32] I find the Cyclone to be a perfect moon probe launch platform.. it has a built in "Bore Sight" and I never miss a moon with the first probe no matter how small ; ] "Arte et Marte"
Mordrake MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2005.11.16 07:14:00 - [33] I find the Cyclone to be a perfect moon probe launch platform.. it has a built in "Bore Sight" and I never miss a moon with the first probe no matter how small ; ] "Arte et Marte"
Ekim	Posted - 2005.11.19 23:18:00 - [34] Ok, there have been a change reciently with Moon Probes that I think should be brought up here. Moon Probes/Launcher volume has been reduced to 10% (like drones). This means the 40 minute probes take 5m3, the 10 minute drones take 10m3, and the launchers have 10m3 cargo space (one or two probes). This makes frigates a lot more viable as moon probers. You don't have to be within 5,000 KM of a moon to launch a probe. I've launched 10 min probes from 6,000+ KM away and still gotten results. I like using a Covert Ops frigate for this. With L4 in Cloaking and Covert Ops, I can use the Covert Ops Cloak and a Probe launcher and have both online at the same time. Here's my configuration: Ship Class: Helios (Gallante since it's the only frig I'm at L5) High Slots: Covert Ops Cloak & Scan Probe Launcher. Medium Slots: one 1MN AB and four Cap Rechargers. Low Slots: one Nanofiber and two CoProcessor IIs (if you have Covert Ops at L5, you don't need the CoProcessors). With this configuration, I can carry 41 40-minute probes or 20 10-minute probes by using a small can in my hold. So far, the largest number of moons I've found in a system are around 70, so it won't take many trips to probe a system. Now that I know you don't have to stay within 1AU of your probe for it to work, I'll start using the 40 minute probes. That'll cut my cost of probes in half and double the number I can carry. Warping to a planet and scanning for a PoS is a great thing. You won't get the actual range to the PoS, but you'll know it's there. You can change the range of your scanner so you can try to figure out which moon has the PoS - it's not 100%, but it can be done. If you warp to a moon in your pod (only when there is no-one else in the system), then BM the tower and then warp back to your ship, you can then warp to 100km from the tower with your Cloak on and approach the moon. When the tower leaves your scanner usually 300-500km from it), it's safe to turn off the cloak and launch your probe. I don't need to wait for the probe results to come in to know if it's a good launch. I can see it when I launch. Just put your ship just under the middle of the moon and look at the white dot of the probe. If after about 10 seconds its in the moon's picture, it's a good launch. Otherwise it's bad and launch another. For those tiny moons, move your view until the moon is on the middle of the upper edge of the screen (it starts to stretch out so you can double-click on it. I'm over 99% success rate launching this way and I've yet to have a probe fail that I didn't know in advance it was a bad launch. ____________________________________________ If you think it's broke or don't like the way it works: Submit a Bug Report, Post a Suggestion on the Forums, or quit playing!
Ekim Ekim's Enterprises LTD	Posted - 2005.11.19 23:18:00 - [35] Ok, there have been a change reciently with Moon Probes that I think should be brought up here. Moon Probes/Launcher volume has been reduced to 10% (like drones). This means the 40 minute probes take 5m3, the 10 minute drones take 10m3, and the launchers have 10m3 cargo space (one or two probes). This makes frigates a lot more viable as moon probers. You don't have to be within 5,000 KM of a moon to launch a probe. I've launched 10 min probes from 6,000+ KM away and still gotten results. I like using a Covert Ops frigate for this. With L4 in Cloaking and Covert Ops, I can use the Covert Ops Cloak and a Probe launcher and have both online at the same time. Here's my configuration: Ship Class: Helios (Gallante since it's the only frig I'm at L5) High Slots: Covert Ops Cloak & Scan Probe Launcher. Medium Slots: one 1MN AB and four Cap Rechargers. Low Slots: one Nanofiber and two CoProcessor IIs (if you have Covert Ops at L5, you don't need the CoProcessors). With this configuration, I can carry 41 40-minute probes or 20 10-minute probes by using a small can in my hold. So far, the largest number of moons I've found in a system are around 70, so it won't take many trips to probe a system. Now that I know you don't have to stay within 1AU of your probe for it to work, I'll start using the 40 minute probes. That'll cut my cost of probes in half and double the number I can carry. Warping to a planet and scanning for a PoS is a great thing. You won't get the actual range to the PoS, but you'll know it's there. You can change the range of your scanner so you can try to figure out which moon has the PoS - it's not 100%, but it can be done. If you warp to a moon in your pod (only when there is no-one else in the system), then BM the tower and then warp back to your ship, you can then warp to 100km from the tower with your Cloak on and approach the moon. When the tower leaves your scanner usually 300-500km from it), it's safe to turn off the cloak and launch your probe. I don't need to wait for the probe results to come in to know if it's a good launch. I can see it when I launch. Just put your ship just under the middle of the moon and look at the white dot of the probe. If after about 10 seconds its in the moon's picture, it's a good launch. Otherwise it's bad and launch another. For those tiny moons, move your view until the moon is on the middle of the upper edge of the screen (it starts to stretch out so you can double-click on it. I'm over 99% success rate launching this way and I've yet to have a probe fail that I didn't know in advance it was a bad launch. ____________________________________________ If you think it's broke or don't like the way it works: Submit a Bug Report, Post a Suggestion on the Forums, or quit playing!
Ekim Ekim's Enterprises LTD	Posted - 2005.11.19 23:18:00 - [36] Ok, there have been a change reciently with Moon Probes that I think should be brought up here. Moon Probes/Launcher volume has been reduced to 10% (like drones). This means the 40 minute probes take 5m3, the 10 minute drones take 10m3, and the launchers have 10m3 cargo space (one or two probes). This makes frigates a lot more viable as moon probers. You don't have to be within 5,000 KM of a moon to launch a probe. I've launched 10 min probes from 6,000+ KM away and still gotten results. I like using a Covert Ops frigate for this. With L4 in Cloaking and Covert Ops, I can use the Covert Ops Cloak and a Probe launcher and have both online at the same time. Here's my configuration: Ship Class: Helios (Gallante since it's the only frig I'm at L5) High Slots: Covert Ops Cloak & Scan Probe Launcher. Medium Slots: one 1MN AB and four Cap Rechargers. Low Slots: one Nanofiber and two CoProcessor IIs (if you have Covert Ops at L5, you don't need the CoProcessors). With this configuration, I can carry 41 40-minute probes or 20 10-minute probes by using a small can in my hold. So far, the largest number of moons I've found in a system are around 70, so it won't take many trips to probe a system. Now that I know you don't have to stay within 1AU of your probe for it to work, I'll start using the 40 minute probes. That'll cut my cost of probes in half and double the number I can carry. Warping to a planet and scanning for a PoS is a great thing. You won't get the actual range to the PoS, but you'll know it's there. You can change the range of your scanner so you can try to figure out which moon has the PoS - it's not 100%, but it can be done. If you warp to a moon in your pod (only when there is no-one else in the system), then BM the tower and then warp back to your ship, you can then warp to 100km from the tower with your Cloak on and approach the moon. When the tower leaves your scanner usually 300-500km from it), it's safe to turn off the cloak and launch your probe. I don't need to wait for the probe results to come in to know if it's a good launch. I can see it when I launch. Just put your ship just under the middle of the moon and look at the white dot of the probe. If after about 10 seconds its in the moon's picture, it's a good launch. Otherwise it's bad and launch another. For those tiny moons, move your view until the moon is on the middle of the upper edge of the screen (it starts to stretch out so you can double-click on it. I'm over 99% success rate launching this way and I've yet to have a probe fail that I didn't know in advance it was a bad launch. ____________________________________________ If you think it's broke or don't like the way it works: Submit a Bug Report, Post a Suggestion on the Forums, or quit playing!
Crom'ar Lev	Posted - 2005.12.12 07:45:00 - [37] 2005.12.12 07:37:34infoProbe did not find any material worth exploiting on ****** V - Moon 9 Does this mean that the probe failed and u have to rescan or does it actually mean what it says and that particular moon has no material? thx
Crom'ar Lev Minmatar OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2005.12.12 07:45:00 - [38] 2005.12.12 07:37:34infoProbe did not find any material worth exploiting on ****** V - Moon 9 Does this mean that the probe failed and u have to rescan or does it actually mean what it says and that particular moon has no material? thx
Crom'ar Lev Minmatar OctoberSnow Corp	Posted - 2005.12.12 07:45:00 - [39] 2005.12.12 07:37:34infoProbe did not find any material worth exploiting on ****** V - Moon 9 Does this mean that the probe failed and u have to rescan or does it actually mean what it says and that particular moon has no material? thx
Morkalum Takor	Posted - 2005.12.12 22:58:00 - [40] Means the moon is barren. Time to go search new moons. "There's more than one side to a story..."-Reporter for the InterCorp Courier Enterprises
Morkalum Takor Minmatar Kinetic Vector Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2005.12.12 22:58:00 - [41] Means the moon is barren. Time to go search new moons. "There's more than one side to a story..."-Reporter for the InterCorp Courier Enterprises
Morkalum Takor Minmatar Kinetic Vector Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2005.12.12 22:58:00 - [42] Means the moon is barren. Time to go search new moons. "There's more than one side to a story..."-Reporter for the InterCorp Courier Enterprises
probablecause	Posted - 2006.05.01 16:58:00 - [43] Has anyone put these moon scan results into a searchable database? It seems an awfully expensive and vast endeavour to do over and over. Is anyone providing their data freely?
Qolde	Posted - 2006.05.02 01:36:00 - [44] Probably not. Just like people don't tell trade routes. But this is a little more permanent than trade routes. I've seen some people sell their data though.
F lar	Posted - 2006.05.31 22:02:00 - [45] What error is returned if you miss a moon? I have received, "Probe did not find any material worth exploiting" several times. I gather that means the moon is barren. Never any other error. Thanks, -F lar
franny	Posted - 2006.06.01 05:42:00 - [46] failure to connect blah blah blah is the 'missed' msg nothing to exploit is the your moon sucks msg ----------------------------------------- TCC Diplomatic core + combat pilot talk or shoot, makes no difference to me :)
Flyhard	Posted - 2006.07.07 11:03:00 - [47] bump
Hermia HIVE	Posted - 2006.11.07 13:57:00 - [48] Originally by: Ekim Warping to a planet and scanning for a PoS is a great thing. You won't get the actual range to the PoS, but you'll know it's there. You can change the range of your scanner so you can try to figure out which moon has the PoS - it's not 100%, but it The following is important to know for new guys on the beat: You must scan the system of POS's first, it is possible to 100% determine there exact location as well just using the scanner without probes, heres how. 1) Warp to planet and open scanner. Set range to something that will encompass every moon around the planet (1 million km is adequate). Set the angle to 360 degrees, hit scan and collect data. 2) Not critical but for the love of god make sure you check the tick box "use overview setings". Also check the "Control Tower" box in your overview setings. 3) On finding control towers, you can narrow your search by shortening the angle, allignment is done on camera movement only, no need to align your ship. 4) Finally narrow your angle all the way to 30 degrees and scan single moons. Hold down left alt to highlight moon name. easy
Vyktor Abyss The Abyss Corporation Amen Anera	Posted - 2006.11.08 14:50:00 - [49] Please Sticky this! Great thread. - Ideas are my business...maybe thats why I'm always broke! Science Ships
Onan HIVE	Posted - 2006.11.10 16:40:00 - [50] Quite true, using the 'scan at the planets' method is a sure fired way not to end up looking at the outside of your pod, which i am all in favor of. I don't think anyone would willingly hand over information on moons (unless he's completely mad) it's an aweful lot of time and effort to scan moons and you'd be stupid to hand that information out to just anyone for free.
Eldrad	Posted - 2006.11.10 20:56:00 - [51] When moon scan results are returned, it's either none, or 1-4. In the 1-4 range, which is best, the 1 or the 4?
Erfnam Time Cube Syndicate Daikoku Trade Syndicate	Posted - 2006.11.10 21:03:00 - [52] Originally by: Hermia Originally by: Ekim Warping to a planet and scanning for a PoS is a great thing. You won't get the actual range to the PoS, but you'll know it's there. You can change the range of your scanner so you can try to figure out which moon has the PoS - it's not 100%, but it The following is important to know for new guys on the beat: You must scan the system of POS's first, it is possible to 100% determine there exact location as well just using the scanner without probes, heres how. 1) Warp to planet and open scanner. Set range to something that will encompass every moon around the planet (1 million km is adequate). Set the angle to 360 degrees, hit scan and collect data. 2) Not critical but for the love of god make sure you check the tick box "use overview setings". Also check the "Control Tower" box in your overview setings. 3) On finding control towers, you can narrow your search by shortening the angle, allignment is done on camera movement only, no need to align your ship. 4) Finally narrow your angle all the way to 30 degrees and scan single moons. Hold down left alt to highlight moon name. easy For the lazy. Safe spot, eject, warp directly to moon. Tower guns do not shoot pods. :) Time Cube Syndicate is recruiting
Hermia HIVE	Posted - 2006.11.11 15:12:00 - [53] Originally by: Onan Quite true, using the 'scan at the planets' method is a sure fired way not to end up looking at the outside of your pod, which i am all in favor of. I don't think anyone would willingly hand over information on moons (unless he's completely mad) it's an aweful lot of time and effort to scan moons and you'd be stupid to hand that information out to just anyone for free. LOLOLLOL, OMG he makes a post. Well done onan. For a laugh everyone click onans passed posts, its a bout 4 over the passed 3 and a half years. getting back on track, flying your pod to locations actually takes WAY LONGER than scanning the moon, honestly. Personally i only use a pod to check belt ore when flying a throw-away-alt in enemy territory.
Eldrad	Posted - 2006.11.13 03:24:00 - [54] Of the following types of scanned metals/gases, which would be the best value to try to mine (in terms of profitability)? All are abundance 1. Cobalt Hydrocarbons Atmospheric gas Evaporite deposits Thanks!
Commander Spectre	Posted - 2007.02.21 01:47:00 - [55] Ok can somone Update this guide?...it is seriously oudated with ravelations and I need to know how it works now.
Ash Donai	Posted - 2007.02.23 06:14:00 - [56] Originally by: Commander Spectre Ok can somone Update this guide?...it is seriously oudated with ravelations and I need to know how it works now. Yup, that someone is you. Since you seem to have information that indicates that the current guide is "seriously outdated", you could share than new info and thus contribute to an "updated" guide.
Vincent Almasy Gallente The Underground	Posted - 2007.03.29 21:47:00 - [57] I have heard you need to line up perfectly with a moon befor launching a probe so it will get the information. Is there something i am missing? I warp to a moon, I am always off angle I move to a range of 5200km from the moon. I try to align with the moon using warp, then stop ship as normal. I am not on angle with the moon sometimes close but others i am close to 40 degrees off angle from the moon. Is there some pay to fix this or the visual sence not matter?
Kurull Skullsplitter Minmatar Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.04.10 17:17:00 - [58] Edited by: Kurull Skullsplitter on 10/04/2007 17:15:55 Originally by: Vincent Almasy I have heard you need to line up perfectly with a moon befor launching a probe so it will get the information. Is there something i am missing? I warp to a moon, I am always off angle I move to a range of 5200km from the moon. I try to align with the moon using warp, then stop ship as normal. I am not on angle with the moon sometimes close but others i am close to 40 degrees off angle from the moon. Is there some pay to fix this or the visual sence not matter? After you warp you must move your ship in the "approach" fashion toward the moon to align the launcher. This is not always obvious how to do since you can't use most of the normal methods to approach things. However, the double click in space method still works. For the larger moons just double click very close to the square icon that represents the moon on your screen. That is the one in space appearing to be in the center of the moon. For small moons that does not work so well. In which case press Ctrl+Tab which removes all things from your screen except the space graphics. Then you can center your mouse on the moon and double click which will cause your ship to approach the moon directly at it center if you clicked right in the center of the moon in space. Then press Ctrl+Tab again to bring your normal view back. Fire the probe and watch it to see if its going toward the moon. This is important... in every case where you approach the moon to align your ship for firing the probe be sure you allow a couple seconds for your ship to actually align before you fire the probe. If you don't it will go off into space. a rule of thumb for moon probeing... "Haste makes waste" Something I not seen remarked upon... I suggest keeping ahead of your note taking on moon probe results. Keep them annotated on paper or in your ingame notepad. A couple hours of time can easily be lost if your connection gets dropped if you haven't put the info down somewhere first. . ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Relationships are ours to make; we define them, day by day, by who we choose to love and how we choose to love them. And, by these choices, define ourselves. Richard N. Patterson
Persephone Heaven	Posted - 2007.05.14 12:37:00 - [59] Forgive me if this is a noobish question but when it comes to surveying and POS setup I am a noobe I was out surveying and getting very excited abou the results I might get like a kid before he opens his christmas presents. Imagine my excitment when I found a moon with Platinum & Dysprosium. Ok heres the bummer. In my enthusiastic rush, I forgot to check the security status of the system. When I Was writing up my results, I noticed that the moon was in a 0.4 security system. Does this mean that if I set up a POS at this moon, I will not be able to online a Moon Mining array to extract these minerals? Many thanks Persephone
Toriatrix The Blackwater Brigade	Posted - 2007.05.19 00:12:00 - [60] Originally by: Persephone Heaven Forgive me if this is a noobish question but when it comes to surveying and POS setup I am a noobe I was out surveying and getting very excited abou the results I might get like a kid before he opens his christmas presents. Imagine my excitment when I found a moon with Platinum & Dysprosium. Ok heres the bummer. In my enthusiastic rush, I forgot to check the security status of the system. When I Was writing up my results, I noticed that the moon was in a 0.4 security system. Does this mean that if I set up a POS at this moon, I will not be able to online a Moon Mining array to extract these minerals? Many thanks Persephone Yep. 0.1 -> 0.7 = no moonmining. = no fun.. -Toriatrix The Blackwater Brigade.
Kael Hunter Caldari Hunter Military Industries E.A.R.T.H. Federation	Posted - 2007.07.31 11:17:00 - [61] Edited by: Kael Hunter on 31/07/2007 11:20:04 CCP Confuse me at times... If we can't mine the moon why make it mine-able. Why not simply make all the moons in hi sec barren and the 0.0 moons concentration 4 etc. Or (my personally favourite) let us mine the damn moon we already pay star base charters to use POS's some sort of one of prospectors fee would be ideal. Buy the land as it were and register the land purchase to the POS rather than the player. This could be a good dynamic it would encourage espionage and tact to get the mineral rights rather than simply decking and removing the POS the good 'ol fashioned why of removing it by using it for target practice. Might be a fun idea I don't know, but I definitely would like to mine high sec... Wonder if that capital mining barge will have a moon harvester... Prays All the best Kael Hunter P.S Hey Kurull! ---------------------------------------------------
mortitia sith kleptomaniacs	Posted - 2007.07.31 14:49:00 - [62] for small moons double click towards bottom of moon , when going that direction double click towards top of moon , ships starts alignment . before alignment is complete launch .

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