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Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
29
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 19:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am currently facing a problem that few players want to fight in fleets, as it (can) reduce the income etc, while I'm just getting bored after 1-2 missions alone.
What about extending Incursion rewarding system to missions as well? Together with our new AI this could encourage players gathering to fleets and so have more fun in PvE (I'm not a PvP pilot, although sometimes I'd like to go somewhere shooting boxes instead of crosses.. Dunno why not doing this). |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
799
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 19:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
Fleet missions are level V missions.
People don't run them for some reason. |
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
29
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Posted - 2012.11.18 19:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lowsec? Since level V are removed from high, they're no longer an option. |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
508
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 19:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
How about instead of applying the incursion mechanics to missions, you do incursions?
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Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
29
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Posted - 2012.11.18 20:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
They're a bit too "nervous", on missions I don't have to compete with other fleets AND so I don't have to fly a several-billion-isk battleship to actually get a reward. Also, the gap between incursion levels is like frigate-battleship-dread-titan-something (this is only an example of a really big gap) ...and still the competition hurts |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
799
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 20:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Shade Alidiana wrote:Lowsec? Since level V are removed from high, they're no longer an option.
So...you're afraid of them? |
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
29
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 20:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
Having a 1,5 billion ship to have relaxed joy of this kind will never be available in low sec. At least not "relaxed" and most likely different kind of.
Low sec automatically enables PvP, the worst kind of - piracy. CCP says "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose", but I would also add some kind of probability to the formula. In low sec it's not affordable for me to fly anything larger than BC, maybe BS (once per month). And I'm not the poorest pilot around, although not rich as well. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
799
|
Posted - 2012.11.18 22:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Shade Alidiana wrote:Having a 1,5 billion ship to have relaxed joy of this kind will never be available in low sec. At least not "relaxed" and most likely different kind of.
Low sec automatically enables PvP, the worst kind of - piracy. CCP says "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose", but I would also add some kind of probability to the formula. In low sec it's not affordable for me to fly anything larger than BC, maybe BS (once per month). And I'm not the poorest pilot around, although not rich as well.
In other words, yes, you're afraid fo them.
You don't need a 1.5 billion isk ship to do anything. What's to stop you and a handful of buddies from running level Vs in t2 fit battleships, with either a logi or two, or RR fit? Not exactly expensive, surely?
That, or try your hand at PVP. I see you don't do it, maybe you should give it a spin. You might even like it. (Either that, or you might learn how to discourage pirates in small numbers, and evade larger gangs.) |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
32
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Posted - 2012.11.19 00:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
ccp is not going to give lv 4 dual boxers more rewards to make more isk faucets. take one mission runner, mix in booster alt and any proceeeds from rewards going to 1 player.
Your most basic ghetto booster just needs 1 warfare skill at level 1 and some leadership to be a booster, not hard to train. A proper booster ofc a more involved train....but if going for "incursion" reward farming ghetto style works jsut fine. A couple days train, coding sees a "fleet" setup and there is a trash boosting alt raking in rewards with the main.
AI change not breaking this. Even If the day comes when off grid boosting fixed, lots of ways to run an afk on grid booster safely if so desired for pve. |
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
29
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 00:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ok, you got it. Lowering the rewards per player? Like 0.7 of current values. This way there will still be some boost to alt users, but lower.
And maybe there can be another way to encourage fleet mission running? |
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Dawn DiDacyria
Hybrid Flare strange tactical and research syndicate
3
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Posted - 2012.11.19 00:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Not all EVE players enjoy PvP at all, and quite a few of those don't venture into possibly dangerous areas. Yes, I know CCP wants to "push" people towards lo-sec. null-sec, and the PvP parts of EVE but even when they do that not all of us want to venture in that direction. A few extra options for those not wanting that would be good. Moving a few Level V's into high-sec again, or making Level IV's more dangerous or requiring a fleet. I'd also think that getting High-Sec players (care-bears that some like to call them) to fleet up to do some more things might make them enjoy playing together and even start looking at fleet options in low-sec or even null-sec, thus getting them more inclined to go towards the PvP parts of the game.
I'd like to see Missions being more like: Level 1: Frigates and stronger can do them. Includes a few with warning on them that a stronger ship or a friend or two could be needed. Level 2: Cruisers and stronger can do them. Includes a few with warning on them that a stronger ship or a friend or two could be needed. Level 3: Battleships and stronger can do them. Includes a few with warning on them that a friend or two is to prefer. Level 4: Small Fleet (3-5 members) and stronger can do them. Includes more than a few with warning on them that more fleet members could be needed. Level 5: Larger Fleet (6-10 members) and stronger can do them. Roughly half include a warning that larger fleets (up to 2 Squads) could be needed.
I also know this will never happen but one can hope.
Cheers |
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
29
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 00:31:00 -
[12] - Quote
Exactly what I wanted to say.. Thanks. |
Mirima Thurander
The 8th Tribe Seraphim Dragoons.
405
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 00:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Dawn DiDacyria wrote:Not all EVE players enjoy PvP at all, and quite a few of those don't venture into possibly dangerous areas. Yes, I know CCP wants to "push" people towards lo-sec. null-sec, and the PvP parts of EVE but even when they do that not all of us want to venture in that direction. A few extra options for those not wanting that would be good. Moving a few Level V's into high-sec again, or making Level IV's more dangerous or requiring a fleet. I'd also think that getting High-Sec players (care-bears that some like to call them) to fleet up to do some more things might make them enjoy playing together and even start looking at fleet options in low-sec or even null-sec, thus getting them more inclined to go towards the PvP parts of the game.
I'd like to see Missions being more like: Level 1: Frigates and stronger can do them. Includes a few with warning on them that a stronger ship or a friend or two could be needed. Level 2: Cruisers and stronger can do them. Includes a few with warning on them that a stronger ship or a friend or two could be needed. Level 3: Battleships and stronger can do them. Includes a few with warning on them that a friend or two is to prefer. Level 4: Small Fleet (3-5 members) and stronger can do them. Includes more than a few with warning on them that more fleet members could be needed. Level 5: Larger Fleet (6-10 members) and stronger can do them. Roughly half include a warning that larger fleets (up to 2 Squads) could be needed.
I also know this will never happen but one can hope.
Cheers
I truly like this idea as it promotes team play and reduces raw ISK being injected into the market.
And after u get good at lvl5 missions u would move on to incursions or possibly some form of fleet PvP. A Dark time comes. A time of terror comes. My time. If it offends you. Stop me. |
serras bang
Lucien Coven
46
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Posted - 2012.11.19 00:37:00 -
[14] - Quote
Dawn DiDacyria wrote:Not all EVE players enjoy PvP at all, and quite a few of those don't venture into possibly dangerous areas. Yes, I know CCP wants to "push" people towards lo-sec. null-sec, and the PvP parts of EVE but even when they do that not all of us want to venture in that direction. A few extra options for those not wanting that would be good. Moving a few Level V's into high-sec again, or making Level IV's more dangerous or requiring a fleet. I'd also think that getting High-Sec players (care-bears that some like to call them) to fleet up to do some more things might make them enjoy playing together and even start looking at fleet options in low-sec or even null-sec, thus getting them more inclined to go towards the PvP parts of the game.
I'd like to see Missions being more like: Level 1: Frigates and stronger can do them. Includes a few with warning on them that a stronger ship or a friend or two could be needed. Level 2: Cruisers and stronger can do them. Includes a few with warning on them that a stronger ship or a friend or two could be needed. Level 3: Battleships and stronger can do them. Includes a few with warning on them that a friend or two is to prefer. Level 4: Small Fleet (3-5 members) and stronger can do them. Includes more than a few with warning on them that more fleet members could be needed. Level 5: Larger Fleet (6-10 members) and stronger can do them. Roughly half include a warning that larger fleets (up to 2 Squads) could be needed.
I also know this will never happen but one can hope.
Cheers
makeing lvl 4's requiring a fleet would kill the game not everyone can run lvl 4's easily those than can and make a killing dont want to as lvl 4's in agroup is just not profitable ide rather blitz lvl 3's simply put wouldnt work you want a fleet to do things with incursions give you this and if done well can make you in excess of 500 mill a day. |
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
29
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 00:44:00 -
[15] - Quote
serras bang wrote:Dawn DiDacyria wrote:Not all EVE players enjoy PvP at all, and quite a few of those don't venture into possibly dangerous areas. Yes, I know CCP wants to "push" people towards lo-sec. null-sec, and the PvP parts of EVE but even when they do that not all of us want to venture in that direction. A few extra options for those not wanting that would be good. Moving a few Level V's into high-sec again, or making Level IV's more dangerous or requiring a fleet. I'd also think that getting High-Sec players (care-bears that some like to call them) to fleet up to do some more things might make them enjoy playing together and even start looking at fleet options in low-sec or even null-sec, thus getting them more inclined to go towards the PvP parts of the game.
I'd like to see Missions being more like: Level 1: Frigates and stronger can do them. Includes a few with warning on them that a stronger ship or a friend or two could be needed. Level 2: Cruisers and stronger can do them. Includes a few with warning on them that a stronger ship or a friend or two could be needed. Level 3: Battleships and stronger can do them. Includes a few with warning on them that a friend or two is to prefer. Level 4: Small Fleet (3-5 members) and stronger can do them. Includes more than a few with warning on them that more fleet members could be needed. Level 5: Larger Fleet (6-10 members) and stronger can do them. Roughly half include a warning that larger fleets (up to 2 Squads) could be needed.
I also know this will never happen but one can hope.
Cheers makeing lvl 4's requiring a fleet would kill the game not everyone can run lvl 4's easily those than can and make a killing dont want to as lvl 4's in agroup is just not profitable ide rather blitz lvl 3's simply put wouldnt work you want a fleet to do things with incursions give you this and if done well can make you in excess of 500 mill a day.
Read more carefully. We started with applying system that will not decrease payouts to a fleet(of proper size, of course). |
Dawn DiDacyria
Hybrid Flare strange tactical and research syndicate
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 00:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
serras bang wrote: makeing lvl 4's requiring a fleet would kill the game not everyone can run lvl 4's easily those than can and make a killing dont want to as lvl 4's in agroup is just not profitable ide rather blitz lvl 3's simply put wouldnt work you want a fleet to do things with incursions give you this and if done well can make you in excess of 500 mill a day.
Actually a well coordinated small fleet can take down Level 4 missions faster than if each of those had run them alone, fast enough that the income from the missions per player exceeds running them solo. There's several reasons for this, a few of them include punching through any tanking a rat is goes faster, making it less total HP in damage needed, when several members hit the same target jamming rats can make it hard to target until the rats come close enough, any other member in a fleet can take them out so the tanker can start dealing damage sooner a solo ship is usually slow when able to solo a Level 4 so a faster fleet member can get to the mission can 65 clicks away faster and either go back and jet it, or hand it over in the mission station having dedicated ships for frigate, cruiser, and BS rats means the players can set their ships up for their designated targets better and thus kill them faster while a solo runner will almost invariably have trouble getting at least one type of rat ships down, usually frigates, and will have to carry options to get all kinds of ships down
Serras, just because you'd not do fleeted Level 4 missions does not mean that having it set up that way would automatically fail. Incursions is an idea and something to skill up for but a fleeted Level 4 even newer players can join. Incursions also do not give 500 mil ISK a day to everyone, only the ones that succeed with enough Incursion things to get the rewards.
As a final point not all are looking to maximize their ISK income every time they play. Quite a few want to have fun either in between or while making ISK. Adding ways to have fun while making ISK would in my opinion benefit the game as for those that like the concept of EVE but don't like the PvP part, for whatever reasons, easily tire of the game parts they have easy access to in High-Sec.
Cheers |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
207
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 00:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
High sec income needs a nerf. Not a buff... |
Dawn DiDacyria
Hybrid Flare strange tactical and research syndicate
3
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 01:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:High sec income needs a nerf. Not a buff...
Who said anything about buffing high-sec income? *smile*
I'd also be interested to learn why you have that opinion, what you base it on?
Cheers |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
32
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 01:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Dawn DiDacyria wrote:Garviel Tarrant wrote:High sec income needs a nerf. Not a buff... Who said anything about buffing high-sec income? *smile* I'd also be interested to learn why you have that opinion, what you base it on? Cheers
THe only viable way to make lv 4 hard is moar rats. More rats, more bounty. More bounty, more isk. Have lv 4 pushing out 30 mil a tick....people will find a way to solo it. It can't be made harder any other way. CCP tried this with say gurista ecm strenght boost. Unless in certain t3's....make the missions not harder, just a are you serious pita. And they can't mix gurista with omfg scram/web from 20 rats. then you'd have even 10 man fleets jammed, locked down and popping left and right. End result.....no one is doing gurista missions anymore.
lv 5's in empire would be more isk. Why they were taken out.....they could be run by 1 person with the proper main/alt setups (when I say run mission solo...I include alts, its still only 1 person running the mission).. Rattler meat shield and the damage dealer real common. Passive rattler in fact lived for level 5's. The "hardest" part of empire level 5's was getting the mission claimer out to the low sec station to get the mission. nano inty or covert ops cloaky frig and this not even hard. Off the gate jsut like that.
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Kuro Bon
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
18
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 02:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
Dawn DiDacyria wrote: I'd like to see Missions being more like: Level 1: Frigates and stronger can do them. Includes a few with warning on them that a stronger ship or a friend or two could be needed. Level 2: Cruisers and stronger can do them. Includes a few with warning on them that a stronger ship or a friend or two could be needed.
I generally agree with your explanation of PVE centric mindsets. However, the reason current missions are no good for teams is the same reason your suggestion above is no good for teams. "includes a few with warning on them" is just frustrating.
We need to be able to ASK for team missions, or ASK for solo missions. This way, if you get a team assembled, you can push the button and get something to do with them. 100M ISK per hour is about $3US an hour. -áIt's more efficient to work at starbucks.-á Playing the game doesn't advance skills, kinda like ProgressQuest. |
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Dawn DiDacyria
Hybrid Flare strange tactical and research syndicate
4
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Posted - 2012.11.19 05:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kuro Bon wrote:
I generally agree with your explanation of PVE centric mindsets. However, the reason current missions are no good for teams is the same reason your suggestion above is no good for teams. "includes a few with warning on them" is just frustrating.
We need to be able to ASK for team missions, or ASK for solo missions. This way, if you get a team assembled, you can push the button and get something to do with them.
Nice one and I agree though for the higher level missions the option could very well be "normal fleet mission" or "harder fleet mission" so that the higher level missions still require a fleet to run.
Zan Shiro wrote:THe only viable way to make lv 4 hard is moar rats. More rats, more bounty. More bounty, more isk. Have lv 4 pushing out 30 mil a tick....people will find a way to solo it. It can't be made harder any other way. CCP tried this with say gurista ecm strenght boost. Unless in certain t3's....make the missions not harder, just a are you serious pita. And they can't mix gurista with omfg scram/web from 20 rats. then you'd have even 10 man fleets jammed, locked down and popping left and right. End result.....no one is doing gurista missions anymore.
lv 5's in empire would be more isk. Why they were taken out.....they could be run by 1 person with the proper main/alt setups (when I say run mission solo...I include alts, its still only 1 person running the mission).. Rattler meat shield and the damage dealer real common. Passive rattler in fact lived for level 5's. The "hardest" part of empire level 5's was getting the mission claimer out to the low sec station to get the mission. nano inty or covert ops cloaky frig and this not even hard. Off the gate jsut like that.
I don't agree that the only way to make things harder are by adding more rats, or by scram/web/ECM to over the top. It should be easy enough to design rats with more HP, better resistances, better tanks, higher DPS, even throwing in rat logistic ships in the fray. Basically if a Player can reach X level of something then a "superior" rat could have up to half of that. As it is now they aren't even close to half, probably not even close to a quarter, of what a player can achieve. Heck, design the toughest rats to be close to three quarters of a players capability.
Cheers |
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
29
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 14:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Any kind of better rats would be great, then I won't have to run 4s on a Hurricane or Naga to get some fun of them..
Yes, everything can be soloed with a proper fit... I've heared of a tengu soloing lvl2 incursion sites, but why should we take this as an example? That ship costed about 10 bil isk and the pilot was well skilled.
Yes, I like the idea of choice between fleet and solo missions. |
GizzyBoy
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
21
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Posted - 2012.11.19 14:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
come join my group
run missions
xxxx?
Profit. |
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
29
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Posted - 2012.11.19 18:38:00 -
[24] - Quote
I never managed to keep income in groups of more than 3, and I have top income with 2. This isn't what I'd like to see. |
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
30
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 23:34:00 -
[25] - Quote
Let me try another way: some kind of nonlinear dependency, which will keep the things as is in smaller fleets (where alts can be used), but decreasing less in larger ones (up to a squad).
Combined with some kinds of more powerful NPCs (not more of them!) this could be interesting.
P. S. or maybe introducing quality of completion, so that better (faster?) completed mission will give you more ISK. I don't really like it, but it's still an option |
serras bang
Lucien Coven
47
|
Posted - 2012.11.23 23:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
quite frankly i like running missions solo i enjoy it more i cant always get a team of players to do lvl 4s with i wont go with randoms i prefer solo mission simple as that not everyone wants to come in after work spend an hour or 2 getting a team together from there corp and then only having an hour left to play or bother about people fat assing around ect people do like doing things solo. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
805
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 00:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
serras bang wrote:quite frankly i like running missions solo i enjoy it more i cant always get a team of players to do lvl 4s with i wont go with randoms i prefer solo mission simple as that not everyone wants to come in after work spend an hour or 2 getting a team together from there corp and then only having an hour left to play or bother about people fat assing around ect people do like doing things solo.
Pretty sure no-one's asking for the current missions to all be scrapped in favour of these new fleet ones, just the option.
I guess, if you keep the isk/hr reasonable, IE not greater than you'd get with a similar fleet in null/WH, then it works. I'd rather see more people in level 5s, but from what I read on this forum from terrible missionrunners, that's just not going to happen.
Maybe, just maybe, missions like these could actually be dangerous? |
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
30
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 16:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Maybe, just maybe, missions like these could actually be dangerous? That would be great. The thing I don't like in low-sec missions is that there's nothing to predict when I'll bbe ganked with roaming fleet. Keeping constant checks etc? This could be a fun, but wastes a lot of time to react. I. e. I may spend a couple hours hiding from pirates instead of ratting, not the thing for me. |
Shade Alidiana
PROSPERO Corporation
30
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 11:24:00 -
[29] - Quote
Looking for new replies in this topic. |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
15
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Posted - 2012.11.29 14:19:00 -
[30] - Quote
I agree completely.
This game needs more game. Too much is devoted to making sure mouth breathing baby eaters get to have a good time harassing me at my expense. They should just offer free accounts limited to industrial and hauling ships so that those who do those things are not paying to support the entertainment needs of a bunch of sadists with domestic abuse fantasies.
Part of the solution is fixing the gap between pve and pvp fits. If the pve folks were not naked to the aggression of pirates such that any engagement must end in the destruction of the carebear, unless he goes and hides until the pirate tires of harassing him, then the appearance of an aggressor would not spell the end of fun for the evening. You might even see a few fights instead of docking games.
A lot of it is just plain finish the pve parts of the game. It feels lime the game is only 1/3 done, with almost no pirate pve, and even the empire pve isn't really in a complete state. There just plain needs to be more.... More missions, more environment interaction, more in game story telling, more varied and scaleable missions, more NPC danger in open space, a more dynamic universe. |
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