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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Rayzilla Zaraki
Tandokuno
1
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Posted - 2013.05.10 22:40:00 -
[421] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:
Shrink the map? 500 systems isn't enough for a noob? Then on top of that how hard is it to go through lowsec by shuttle?
You may "know" there are 500 systems, but when someone, especially a noob, looks at the map, they see how small "their" space is. But, I don't see a really clean way to allow some sort of free travel between empires.
Having one or two safe routes between empires is an idea, but it would create huge choke points in those system as all players would use them, even ones more than capable of safely passing through low sec space. The solution there would be to make the safe routes a couple dozen jumps long while the dangerous ones would be but a handful.
It sure would elevate piracy as a profession, that's for sure! Not a bad thing. |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
682
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 05:28:00 -
[422] - Quote
Rayzilla Zaraki wrote:[quote=Commander Ted]
Having one or two safe routes between empires is an idea, but it would create huge choke. Thats how it already is. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Tenris Anis
Schattenengel Clan
61
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 19:36:00 -
[423] - Quote
Pinky Denmark wrote:Gate camping =! True piracy
True Scotsman fallacy. And ironically it would be actually real piracy if people start to gate camp for trade goods instead of for the lulz.
Remove insurance. |
Voith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
86
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 20:44:00 -
[424] - Quote
This idea is always regurgitated by bad PvPers.
Most people don't want to PvP, so some Wow Kiddie "ELITE PVPer" (who runs from any fight that they don't out number the other team 5:1) comes up with the brilliant idea to **** all over the "sandbox" aspect of Eve and force players to play his way. |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
683
|
Posted - 2013.05.11 21:45:00 -
[425] - Quote
Voith wrote:This idea is always regurgitated by bad PvPers.
Most people don't want to PvP, so some Wow Kiddie "ELITE PVPer" (who runs from any fight that they don't out number the other team 5:1) comes up with the brilliant idea to **** all over the "sandbox" aspect of Eve and force players to play his way.
Says the bad ass using a toon who never left the NPC corp to post that has 0 killboard history.
Also most people actually do want to pvp. Proof : http://youtu.be/7MZD6-vGQms?t=8m36s https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
683
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 04:09:00 -
[426] - Quote
The Breath wrote:JITA is not high sec, JITA = low sec in ccp mind, In fact, ccp is doing this in other ways , so.....
I have no idea what this means. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Altered Ego
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 04:49:00 -
[427] - Quote
disregard |
Erutpar Ambient
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance
14
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 16:50:00 -
[428] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:Be there no rebuttles?
Does this mean everyone is on board with a change like this? There is plenty of rebuttal. Supporters of this idea have chosen to downplay, ignore, or outright delude themselves regarding the glaring flaws. It's been pointed out repeatedly that a change like this would not have the intended effect. It will screw up the markets for no real gain except a few pirates get some more targets. It's entirely possible to work toward the goal of making a low sec trading hub already, but the kind of people that like rolling freighters are too risk adverse to put their own ISK on the line making it happen. It's as simple as investing in a few bulky and expensive items and putting them up on a sell order for a very good price, then catching the freighters that come to get them on the way out, in turn putting whatever they have in their holds when you catch them back up for sale at bargain prices... Get together with friends, pool resources, hire traders to stock your station, supplement with the proceeds of your piracy, attract Null Sec business with shorter supply chains that can be more easily secured with jump freighters, etc... It does mean effort, financial risk, and doing something other than shooting anything that lights up your gate, but nothing in life or in EVE is free. It's a suggestion meant to boost the temporary satisfaction of a small segment of toxic players at the expense of the majority, and will result in large alliances owning trade routes and freezing smaller operators out---probably to the ultimate conclusion of overall cancelled subscriptions and dissatisfied customers on all levels.
I have stated plainly why i think this is a good idea. Please state plainly why it's a bad idea. Your arugment that it doesn't "feel" like a good idea. Is not what we're looking for. Neither is "everyone will unsub" and things like that.
When you say it will screw up the markets you'll have to explain more plainly why. Currently lowsec pirating is the way it is because it's out of the way and if someone get's ganked nobody is bothered. But if we put low sec in the path between trade hubs there's going to be a lot of people out there who will be bothered.
This change would not force anyone to go to low sec. All that it would do is make you think twice about flying to another space.
Think of old world trade from eurpoe to china. If you could get silk and spices in europe you wouldn't need to trade. If there was no risk in the transport, they wouldn't really be worth trading anyways. Nothing is worth trading in eve right now. |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
685
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 18:50:00 -
[429] - Quote
Hey, after nearly 10,000 views can I see a dev response? https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Aria Ning
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 19:29:00 -
[430] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Erutpar Ambient wrote:Be there no rebuttles?
Does this mean everyone is on board with a change like this? There is plenty of rebuttal. Supporters of this idea have chosen to downplay, ignore, or outright delude themselves regarding the glaring flaws. It's been pointed out repeatedly that a change like this would not have the intended effect. It will screw up the markets for no real gain except a few pirates get some more targets. It's entirely possible to work toward the goal of making a low sec trading hub already, but the kind of people that like rolling freighters are too risk adverse to put their own ISK on the line making it happen. It's as simple as investing in a few bulky and expensive items and putting them up on a sell order for a very good price, then catching the freighters that come to get them on the way out, in turn putting whatever they have in their holds when you catch them back up for sale at bargain prices... Get together with friends, pool resources, hire traders to stock your station, supplement with the proceeds of your piracy, attract Null Sec business with shorter supply chains that can be more easily secured with jump freighters, etc... It does mean effort, financial risk, and doing something other than shooting anything that lights up your gate, but nothing in life or in EVE is free. It's a suggestion meant to boost the temporary satisfaction of a small segment of toxic players at the expense of the majority, and will result in large alliances owning trade routes and freezing smaller operators out---probably to the ultimate conclusion of overall cancelled subscriptions and dissatisfied customers on all levels. I have stated plainly why i think this is a good idea. Please state plainly why it's a bad idea. Your arugment that it doesn't "feel" like a good idea. Is not what we're looking for. Neither is "everyone will unsub" and things like that. When you say it will screw up the markets you'll have to explain more plainly why. Currently lowsec pirating is the way it is because it's out of the way and if someone get's ganked nobody is bothered. But if we put low sec in the path between trade hubs there's going to be a lot of people out there who will be bothered. This change would not force anyone to go to low sec. All that it would do is make you think twice about flying to another space. Think of old world trade from eurpoe to china. If you could get silk and spices in europe you wouldn't need to trade. If there was no risk in the transport, they wouldn't really be worth trading anyways. Nothing is worth trading in eve right now.
The value of china silk had very little to do with the risk in the transport. It had more to do that silk was a popular item and only the Chinese knew the secret of its manufacture. However, I do agree that the value of an item due to the associated risk involved does increase the value of it, but first the item needs to have value, not the other way around. The current suggestion won't create any real value of items from trade. Items in Eve don't hold much value from trade simply because they're common in every area of space. The only thing that is not that I can think of (and that's common) is something like Racial Ice. In which case the idea would create some trade value in Racial Ice.
For this idea to work certain high sec regions of space need to have access to items while other regions don't. Otherwise, all you will see are local regions of trade and very few cross regional trade. In other words, Minmatar will stop shipping goods to Jita and only ship them to Rens/Hek and other factions will do the same in their local regional markets. In simple terms this idea will basically be just a nerf to Jita. |
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Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
686
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 19:40:00 -
[431] - Quote
There is a huge abundance of things only found in one region.
LP Store Rewards, Ice, Exploration loot, datacores, and other things are found only in one spot. Not to mention some minerals are more abundant in certain regions, making racial variants of ships cheaper in some regions. This price difference would create an incentive to conduct trade.
Right now you would think that Republic fleet firetails would be cheaper in rens than in Jita, but they aren't. Why is this? Because people get the blueprints in minmatar space and move them to Jita.
If their was lowsec you would see an incentive to sell them in rens, and people would buy them there and move them to Jita for profit.
Things like battleships that have ungodly mineral costs would be cheaper to be built in there home regions. Due to the difficulty of moving battleships over low sec in bulk, people would start moving the ores that are easier to obtain in some empires to the market they want to sell them in, creating trade. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Aria Ning
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 20:02:00 -
[432] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:There is a huge abundance of things only found in one region. LP Store Rewards, Ice, Exploration loot, datacores, and other things are found only in one spot. Not to mention some minerals are more abundant in certain regions, making racial variants of ships cheaper in some regions. This price difference would create an incentive to conduct trade. Right now you would think that Republic fleet firetails would be cheaper in rens than in Jita, but they aren't. Why is this? Because people build them in minmatar space and move them to Jita.
All those items you mentioned are small m3 items except for ice. A blockade runner or even a frigate can haul those items without any real risk associated (unless they're mass transporting it, which I am getting into my next paragraph).
Now... Lets get to the manufacture side of this (or mass transit). Lets say I have dozens of different ships/ammo/rigs/modules etc built and I see that the market in Jita is in demand for the items I built (from doing my research of course). Currently the price it costs me to ship 800km3 worth of goods is between 11mil-14mil (using Red Frog or PushX) which is chump change because I can easily make millions of isk from the items made.
However, with your idea of low sec being the gap between empires the price of hauling the goods will skyrocket. Because now I am charged for jump freighter service which is usually around 50-60 million isk and can hold only 320k m3 goods severely crippling my profits. You think I will produce goods or transport goods in Jita? No. At least not mass transit. Instead, I am just going to product for the local market, since I get more profits that way.
Also Firetails are cheaper in Jita because Jita has the highest trade volume. Meaning there are more sellers and buyers and depending on the item(s) demand there could to be more sellers than buyers which lowers the price. For example, Jita sells about 100-300 Firetails per day, while Rens will sell only 50-150 per day. Not to mention Jita has about over 2k firetails on the market while Rens has only about 100. If you look at the ratio of Firetails sold per day to what's on the market it's only common that Jita prices of firetails will drop since it only sells about 100-300 but has over 2k on the market. |
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 20:08:00 -
[433] - Quote
I like the idea of having a no mans land between each races territory. Make the boundary maybe three to five jumps deep. Make the Frontier Territory 0.0 security status in all territories and place Frontier outposts of neutral standing in system. Control of all of the outposts in a system would then give the owning race control of the systems where after several months of occupation the systems would slowly achieve a better security status rating eventually becoming high security status with Concord and the occupying races Navy moving in to secure the Frontier Territory. |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
686
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 20:34:00 -
[434] - Quote
Aria Ning wrote:
Also Firetails are cheaper in Jita because Jita has the highest trade volume. Meaning there are more sellers and buyers and depending on the item(s) demand there could to be more sellers than buyers which lowers the price. For example, Jita sells about 100-300 Firetails per day, while Rens will sell only 50-150 per day. Not to mention Jita has about over 2k firetails on the market while Rens has only about 100. If you look at the ratio of Firetails sold per day to what's on the market it's only common that Jita prices of firetails will drop since it only sells about 100-300 but has over 2k on the market.
Exactly my point, their is no point in selling things locally because no matter where it comes from, it makes the most sense to sell it in Jita.
Also those small m3 items matter to trade. Also not all LP store items are small m3, ammo can take up quite a lot of space. Not to mention ships will still be cheaper in their home empires because of how much more common there appropriate minerals are.
Also you must consider that even for generic items like t2 modules there would be new trade opportunities. If someone in Amarr buys out every t2 warp core stab there is, it will take time for the local production to make up for the loss, opening up an opportunity for people to cross low sec and make profit. Normally someone would probably have bought all the warp core stabs from Jita and then moved them to amarr space for use, or within an hour someone would have seen the shortage on eve central and moved in one obelisk.
Since economies will be more isolated, they will be more vulnerable to things like a manufacturer going out of business or price manipulation, making it easier for traders to take advantage of such changes. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Aria Ning
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 20:51:00 -
[435] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Aria Ning wrote: However, with your idea of low sec being the gap between empires the price of hauling the goods will skyrocket. Because now I am charged for jump freighter service which is usually around 50-60 million isk and can hold only 320k m3 goods severely crippling my profits. You think I will produce goods or transport goods to Jita? No. At least not mass transit. Instead, I am just going to produce for the local market since I get more profits that way.
Also Firetails are cheaper in Jita because Jita has the highest trade volume. Meaning there are more sellers and buyers and depending on the item(s) demand there could to be more sellers than buyers which lowers the price. For example, Jita sells about 100-300 Firetails per day, while Rens will sell only 50-150 per day. Not to mention Jita has about over 2k firetails on the market while Rens has only about 100. If you look at the ratio of Firetails sold per day to what's on the market it's only common that Jita prices of firetails will drop since it only sells about 100-300 but has over 2k on the market.
Exactly my point, their is no point in selling things locally because no matter where it comes from, it makes the most sense to sell it in Jita. However if low sec is in the way Jita will die as a super hub. People making things for local consumption will also be a good thing for non traders, since now all four empires will have decent trade hubs. Also those small m3 items matter to trade. Also not all LP store items are small m3, ammo can take up quite a lot of space. Not to mention ships will still be cheaper in their home empires because of how much more common the appropriate minerals are. Also you must consider that even for generic items like t2 modules there would be new trade opportunities. If someone in Amarr buys out every t2 warp core stab there is, it will take time for the local production to make up for the loss, opening up an opportunity for people to cross low sec and make profit. Normally someone would probably have bought all the warp core stabs from Jita and then moved them to amarr space for use, or within an hour someone would have seen the shortage on eve central and moved in one obelisk. Since economies will be more isolated, they will be more vulnerable to things like a manufacturer going out of business or price manipulation, making it easier for traders to take advantage of such changes.
Well first off there are regional trade hubs. Are they as big as Jita? No.
Second what you're suggesting is basically a way for those who are currently rich and wealthy to take over markets. It'll be like the an EvE version of Wall Street and the Big Banks. Which means everyone will be screwed while the few will benefit. The game will turn from ships in space to the rich in space.
Pretty cool idea but I rather see something like this imposed in null sec space maybe not with trade (since there is no trade) but with resources and have the alliance fight it out. At least there are ships in space. |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
687
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 20:53:00 -
[436] - Quote
Aria Ning wrote: Well first off there are regional trade hubs. Are they as big as Jita? No.
Second what you're suggesting is basically a way for those who are currently rich and wealthy to take over markets. It'll be like the an EvE version of Wall Street and the Big Banks. Which means everyone will be screwed while the few will benefit. The game will turn from ships in space to rich in space.
Pretty cool idea but I rather see something like this imposed in null sec space maybe not with trade but with more resources.
If this change were added they would become as big as Jita. You said so yourself that if this were done you couldn't move things to Jita if this change were added, so it would be starved of supply and the demand from other empires would be cut off as well.
Also how am I suggesting anything of the sort? Explain in detail because otherwise your just wildly speculating my intentions. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Aria Ning
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 20:58:00 -
[437] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Aria Ning wrote: Well first off there are regional trade hubs. Are they as big as Jita? No.
Second what you're suggesting is basically a way for those who are currently rich and wealthy to take over markets. It'll be like the an EvE version of Wall Street and the Big Banks. Which means everyone will be screwed while the few will benefit. The game will turn from ships in space to rich in space.
Pretty cool idea but I rather see something like this imposed in null sec space maybe not with trade but with more resources.
If this change were added they would become as big as Jita. You said so yourself that if this were done you couldn't move things to Jita if this change were added, so it would be starved of supply and the demand from other empires would be cut off as well. Also how am I suggesting anything of the sort? Explain in detail because otherwise your just wildly speculating my intentions.
How can they become as big as Jita? All the sellers/buyers will disperse throughout the regions. You will see an increase of market activity in the local regions but they certainly won't be nearly as big as Jita currently.
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Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
687
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 21:00:00 -
[438] - Quote
Aria Ning wrote:
How can they become as big as Jita? All the sellers/buyers will disperse throughout the regions. You will see an increase of market activity in the local regions but they certainly won't be nearly as big as Jita currently.
They would be as big because Jita would shrink. Your not understanding what I mean. All the hubs would be equal, probably about 700 people each. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Aria Ning
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 21:03:00 -
[439] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Aria Ning wrote:
How can they become as big as Jita? All the sellers/buyers will disperse throughout the regions. You will see an increase of market activity in the local regions but they certainly won't be nearly as big as Jita currently.
They would be as big because Jita would shrink. Your not understanding what I mean. All the hubs would be equal, probably about 700 people each.
Yes while Jita is around 2k sometimes more (or would be if the servers could handle more). So as I said they will increase but no where near the level of what Jita is currently.
By the way do you know what the population levels are? If Minmatar space is more active than others or less active then you have some imbalances. Especially with factional warfare. |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
687
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 21:06:00 -
[440] - Quote
Aria Ning wrote: Yes while Jita is around 2k sometimes more (or would be if the servers could handle more). So as I said they will increase but no where near the level of what Jita is currently.
By the way do you know what the population levels are? If Minmatar space is more active than others or less active then you have some imbalances. Especially with factional warfare.
Yea i never meant that.
All the empires have populations proportional to the number of systems (excluding Jita). Although caldari space has slightly more people than Amarr. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
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Aria Ning
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 21:15:00 -
[441] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Aria Ning wrote: Yes while Jita is around 2k sometimes more (or would be if the servers could handle more). So as I said they will increase but no where near the level of what Jita is currently.
By the way do you know what the population levels are? If Minmatar space is more active than others or less active then you have some imbalances. Especially with factional warfare.
Yea i never meant that. All the empires have populations proportional to the number of systems (excluding Jita). Although caldari space has slightly more people than Amarr.
Still a bad idea. Overall, it will limit game play activity for some or even many. If what I play between two empires? (Techincally I sometimes do). So if I want to go to another empire space faction with my Battleship or BC. I can a take a chance of flying it through lowsec or B. Buy another BS or BC and established a second HQ in the other empire space, or C. Just limited my stay in my own regional space (basically creating a high sec within a high sec). It will also remove hauling services as there wouldn't be much activity with industrial or freighters.
Some may try A. and B. but only those who have the isk for it. |
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
687
|
Posted - 2013.05.12 21:29:00 -
[442] - Quote
Aria Ning wrote:
Still a bad idea. Overall, it will limit game play activity for some or even many. If what I play between two empires? (Techincally I sometimes do). So if I want to go to another empire space faction with my Battleship or BC. I can a take a chance of flying it through lowsec or B. Buy another BS or BC and established a second HQ in the other empire space, or C. Just limited my stay in my own regional space (basically creating a high sec within a high sec). It will also remove hauling services as there wouldn't be much activity with industrial or freighters.
Some may try A. and B. but only those who have the isk for it.
What if...
Well why would you want to live in two empires? It's really pointless, and the game shouldn't be designed around letting you do pointless things. In the first i put it as, "Do you seriously need to run Damsel in Distress once for every empire?"
Their is no good reason to need combat ships in multiple empires unless your a hisec pvp pilot.
Also your hauling services would not be anywhere close to dead, you will actually make more money. There will be more demand for people to hire others to move goods, and there are ways of moving freighters from empire to empire without low sec, you can use a wormhole and the likelyhood you will be caught is low if not zero. (especially if its an empire to empire direct connect).
Also if your any good at hauling, maybe you could afford a jump freighter?
What if I wanna build 100 maelstroms in Amarr space but I mined the ore in minmatar space because its easier? What if someone wants to setup a second base of operations for their industrial enterprise in another empire and is reusing a pos they already owned? What if someone just evac'ed from a wormhole but they didn't get a wormhole to the place they wanted? What if I found out my friend plays eve but he lives in another empire? What if I am moving to nullsec but the staging area is very far away and I own to much stuff to liquidate?
All perfectly good reasons to hire someone to move things.
If anything right now it is hard to get jobs hauling other peoples **** unless your black frog. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Erutpar Ambient
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance
16
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 06:08:00 -
[443] - Quote
Aria Ning wrote: Still a bad idea. Overall, it will limit game play activity for some or even many. If what I play between two empires? (Techincally I sometimes do). So if I want to go to another empire space faction with my Battleship or BC. I can a take a chance of flying it through lowsec or B. Buy another BS or BC and established a second HQ in the other empire space, or C. Just limited my stay in my own regional space (basically creating a high sec within a high sec). It will also remove hauling services as there wouldn't be much activity with industrial or freighters.
Some may try A. and B. but only those who have the isk for it.
This does not show that it's a bad idea at all. Infact all it shows is that you're risk adverse and/because buy ships you can't afford to lose.
You should have a little bit of risk if you want to be in all places. High sec has no risk, but it does have everything. This whole idea is in the spirit of eve. But in the spirit of carebears, you could still go with option C until you can afford option A or B. OR you could find a corp/other people that will go with you. Yeah, thats right you have more options.
The best part about this would be the possible build-ups you can do around this. Say for instance war dec'ing. What if you wardec a corp and it's only in a certain faction's space. That'll appease the carebears but also allow wardec's to continue. I really think if they changed Security Status loss to not drop when you attack someone with a negative sec status. That way when you go to low sec you can shoot people that look shootable and not lose your own sec status. Infact if they did that you'd end up with a +sec vs -sec type of area where pirates be pirates but other people would be less likely to shoot +sec guys. That would really add some elements to the whole trade route thing between the empires.
But really the only negative implications brought up of this idea are based on the "Old People Hate Change" mentality. Don't be afraid of a little change!
Are they any real negative implications anyone can think of? Please be Objective, don't subjective and talk about your feelings. |
Aria Ning
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 11:13:00 -
[444] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:Aria Ning wrote: Still a bad idea. Overall, it will limit game play activity for some or even many. If what I play between two empires? (Techincally I sometimes do). So if I want to go to another empire space faction with my Battleship or BC. I can a take a chance of flying it through lowsec or B. Buy another BS or BC and established a second HQ in the other empire space, or C. Just limited my stay in my own regional space (basically creating a high sec within a high sec). It will also remove hauling services as there wouldn't be much activity with industrial or freighters.
Some may try A. and B. but only those who have the isk for it.
This does not show that it's a bad idea at all. Infact all it shows is that you're risk adverse and/because buy ships you can't afford to lose. You should have a little bit of risk if you want to be in all places. High sec has no risk, but it does have everything. This whole idea is in the spirit of eve. But in the spirit of carebears, you could still go with option C until you can afford option A or B. OR you could find a corp/other people that will go with you. Yeah, thats right you have more options. The best part about this would be the possible build-ups you can do around this. Say for instance war dec'ing. What if you wardec a corp and it's only in a certain faction's space. That'll appease the carebears but also allow wardec's to continue. I really think if they changed Security Status loss to not drop when you attack someone with a negative sec status. That way when you go to low sec you can shoot people that look shootable and not lose your own sec status. Infact if they did that you'd end up with a +sec vs -sec type of area where pirates be pirates but other people would be less likely to shoot +sec guys. That would really add some elements to the whole trade route thing between the empires. But really the only negative implications brought up of this idea are based on the "Old People Hate Change" mentality. Don't be afraid of a little change! Are they any real negative implications anyone can think of? Please be Objective, don't subjective and talk about your feelings.
Don't be subjective? I am not talking about my feelings I am simply talking about behavior and how many could react. This change won't draw out more people to low sec. If people don't go to Low sec now why on earth would they then? It would just create a high sec within a high sec.
Besides if your claiming my argument is subjective, then yours is no more or less subjective than mine. As there is no real proof that players will respond in the sense that you think either. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
227
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Posted - 2013.05.13 11:19:00 -
[445] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:GizzyBoy wrote:join test concord's not getting in the way of them hitting freighters 300 + so far? Sounds like extremely boring emergent gameplay. Wouldn't you rather be a pirate in a armada of warships trying to take down the caravan of cargo haulers? Or maybe you and a small band of frigates are cruising the space lanes looking for a lone trader who has stuffed his cargo hold with the federation navy stasis webs that are in short supply in jita. Instead of filling the freighter, setting destination, clicking autopilot, then halfway their you get your massive ship bumped like a tennis ball underwater while a group of ships 1 shot you which interrupts you watching tv. I wanna be a pirate, not some guy who runs around looking for asshats running missions to gank or to play grabass with other so called "pirates". I wanna be a adventurous trader looking to make my fortune using my wits to navigate dangerous deep space without pouring over data tables and spread sheets trying to manipulate prices by moving **** from homogenous trade hub to trade hub.
You cannot simply ignore the players psycology. Given what players have shown on risk aversion that woudl simply kill parts of empire and create 2 separated empires with very little communication ebbetween them.. ammarr and calddari. You would NOT get that heavy traffict you expet in low sec. Most players woudl simply live as if empire got shrinked massively.
Those that do not leave now.. would not leave anyway.
The game is already made partially as you wante. The routes trough high sec are much longer than low sec ones. Make the low sec ones have 2-3 different paths and you will already get as much extra traffic as you coudl expect to ever get.
BTw do not think the empire pipes between the great trade hubs are much safer than average low sec.. if you rtavel too much there with too much valuable cargo.. we will one day or other war dec you . |
Aria Ning
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
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Posted - 2013.05.13 11:22:00 -
[446] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Commander Ted wrote:GizzyBoy wrote:join test concord's not getting in the way of them hitting freighters 300 + so far? Sounds like extremely boring emergent gameplay. Wouldn't you rather be a pirate in a armada of warships trying to take down the caravan of cargo haulers? Or maybe you and a small band of frigates are cruising the space lanes looking for a lone trader who has stuffed his cargo hold with the federation navy stasis webs that are in short supply in jita. Instead of filling the freighter, setting destination, clicking autopilot, then halfway their you get your massive ship bumped like a tennis ball underwater while a group of ships 1 shot you which interrupts you watching tv. I wanna be a pirate, not some guy who runs around looking for asshats running missions to gank or to play grabass with other so called "pirates". I wanna be a adventurous trader looking to make my fortune using my wits to navigate dangerous deep space without pouring over data tables and spread sheets trying to manipulate prices by moving **** from homogenous trade hub to trade hub. You cannot simply ignore the players psycology. Given what players have shown on risk aversion that woudl simply kill parts of empire and create 2 separated empires with very little communication ebbetween them.. ammarr and calddari. You would NOT get that heavy traffict you expet in low sec. Most players woudl simply live as if empire got shrinked massively. Those that do not leave now.. would not leave anyway. The game is already made partially as you wante. The routes trough high sec are much longer than low sec ones. Make the low sec ones have 2-3 different paths and you will already get as much extra traffic as you coudl expect to ever get. BTw do not think the empire pipes between the great trade hubs are much safer than average low sec.. if you rtavel too much there with too much valuable cargo.. we will one day or other war dec you .
Exactly, what I've been trying to say as well! |
Erutpar Ambient
Real Nice And Laidback Corporation Black Core Alliance
17
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Posted - 2013.05.13 19:18:00 -
[447] - Quote
The psychology is exactly what's wrong with highsec. High sec is too big of a safe bubble, risk adverse activity doesn't really inhibit anything anymore. If you break it down into 4 quadrants then it would give inscentive to risk through reward, or in another point of view you'd lose some freedom by being too risk adverse. This is eve, its about fighting with space ships and junk. And if they really are planning to end war decs then highsec violence will go away to a large extent. And if pirates end up concentrating in an area then people will know where to go to get fights (vs pirates even). If this game was designed around the psychology of the average risk adverse pilot then this would just be a space flight simulator, not a space ship blowing up game.
As for the trade pipes, like you said, if you're transporting expensive stuff in large quantities you'll get dec'd. That means its safe for anyone not doing that. Good job! No risk some reward for small guys, some risk same reward for big freighters. This needs changing and highsec wardecs also need to be changed. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
1087
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 19:41:00 -
[448] - Quote
Erutpar Ambient wrote:The psychology is exactly what's wrong with highsec. High sec is too big of a safe bubble, risk adverse activity doesn't really inhibit anything anymore. If you break it down into 4 quadrants then it would give inscentive to risk through reward, or in another point of view you'd lose some freedom by being too risk adverse. This is eve, its about fighting with space ships and junk. And if they really are planning to end war decs then highsec violence will go away to a large extent. And if pirates end up concentrating in an area then people will know where to go to get fights (vs pirates even). If this game was designed around the psychology of the average risk adverse pilot then this would just be a space flight simulator, not a space ship blowing up game.
As for the trade pipes, like you said, if you're transporting expensive stuff in large quantities you'll get dec'd. That means its safe for anyone not doing that. Good job! No risk some reward for small guys, some risk same reward for big freighters. This needs changing and highsec wardecs also need to be changed.
I am the boss of what Eve is all about, and everyone should play their internet spaceship game that they paid for the way I want. Because I am right, and their free time belong to me.
Get over yourself... Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
148
|
Posted - 2013.05.13 19:42:00 -
[449] - Quote
Xavier Thorm wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:This could make it worse. I'm honestly not sure how. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I don't see a reason for it. If moving a bunch of stuff that only exists in one region (like faction goods) or is easier to produce in that region to Jita suddenly involves crossing lowsec, I think less people will do it. Yes, trade across Empires will still exist, and should become more profitable for those who partake in it, but Jita/Rens/Amarr/Dodixie will not be the one-stop-shopping super-hubs they currently are.
I was thinking just about Jita as a trade hub for T1/T2 goods. LP store items will likely be one of the few things that people can use a transport to cross the low sec systems. Might even remain a big seller of all faction goods simply due to the fact that it is currently a super-hub.
Teckos Pech wrote:This is not a requirement, but more likely a result of the fact that:
1. Null sec manufacturing sucks. 2. High sec manufacturing is so damn easy. 3. Manufacturing in general is not alot of fun for most players.
Odyssey might change that, hopefully. And as a result places like Jita and Amarr might lose some of their market share. Maybe.
You just supported my point... One of the reasons I would like to see this change is that High sec manufacturing is so easy. This wouldn't change the manufacturing directly, but it would change the distribution, which would encourage more industry in other regions. Including nullsec. Entirely theoretical, I know, and yes I would want to see other changes as well, but I think this is a good direction to start in.
Teckos Pech wrote: I don't get the issue with this one.
Commander Ted already answered this (sort of) but yeah, basically homogeneous prices make trade (in the traditional sense of loading up your ship in one region, selling your supply where it is valued, picking up whatever is manufactured there, and moving to where that is needed) largely nonexistent.
If it was more difficult to move everything from any point in the galaxy to any other, doing so would be more profitable for people willing to take the risk.[/quote]
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Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1427
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Posted - 2013.05.13 19:54:00 -
[450] - Quote
Yes there should be lowsec dividing the different empires. Improving NPE |
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