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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
2463
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Posted - 2012.12.02 21:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
The New Eden Open, CCP's first cash tournament, was a great success with amazing matches, dramatic fights and fantastic visuals. Thank you to all the involved teams, the studio crew, sponsors and the EVE community as whole!
We are now curious about your impressions and feedback.
What did you like, what did you not like? What do you think went well, what do you think could be improved? How did you like the format, did you like the cash prize?
Let us know what you think! CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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Dorah Hawkwing
Old Galactic Earth Regiment
0
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Posted - 2012.12.02 21:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
I had to miss the first two weekends, and sadly the matches are not up on Youtube. Might be great if next time they would be put up like the aliance tournament ones.
Else, very interresting fights today. |
Creca
O.Z. Prizon
0
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Posted - 2012.12.02 21:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
More bans 3 each team at least :D and 10 players per team. |
William Sedgwick Vyvorant
Why Mine
2
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Posted - 2012.12.02 21:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
Managed to watch all the matches either live or via the catch up and I have to say I really enjoyed it, granted technical issues happen with e-sports but thats just the same as the weather raining off a football (soccer) game, besides I think CCP Fozzie and CCP Dolan are a great pair of commentators, well done all :) |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
3061
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Posted - 2012.12.02 21:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
A clear improvement on most levels compared to previous tournaments. The tactical information bars and bans were propably my favorite new features. I missed the always great alliance ads, but that's not a feature suited to this type of tournament anyway, so I don't really even want any change from CCP on that front. Overall a great tournament. |
Ikzor
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
17
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Posted - 2012.12.02 21:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
A friend of mine that is quite new found it very confusing and decided to not watch, one thing he mentioned was that there was no way of telling what ship is what. Now it should be said that he is very new to the game but I remember from when I watched my first alliance tournament I were very happy that it was actually pictures of the ships.
I have been watching a few years, and I think this format is great. |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
66
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Posted - 2012.12.02 21:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Can we also give feedback to the Alliance Tournament discussion?
- The biggest plus in NEO is that you can go together in one team with pilots that are not in your alliance.
NEO/AT is about small scale PvP, but lots of small scale pvpler are not in an alliance, so something like allowing "guest" in the AT would be nice.
- Not patching the camera client, causing a one hour delay was bad .. really bad.
Everything that makes it easier for small corps/groups to participate is good :)
Thank you very much for this tournament! German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Harvister
Immortalis Silens Intrepid Crossing
0
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Posted - 2012.12.02 21:24:00 -
[8] - Quote
i like it the way it is. but if your looking for improvement the simplest things to suggest are:
* climax on commentary during the match
* CG in studio (lower thread and news feed if there is new information)
* video background behind the studio showing previous matches / live feed from tranquility |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
809
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Posted - 2012.12.02 21:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Watched all of it and it was ok for me. But the delays that you guys had this weekend are kiling me. |
DrJonF Rockit
Zebra Corp Gentlemen's Agreement
0
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Posted - 2012.12.02 22:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Excellent job IMO. I do have one note so far, after the tourney you have some discussions going. I think you should post the winners from each tournament segment at the bottom of the picture with a real time rolling graphic. Something simple. It could even be behind the hosts on the blue screen a-la The ESPN channel in the form of a TV screen or just a simple rectangle image showing results from the tournament.
I make tv.
and I have to disagree with music during segment commentary as it is VERY distracting if it is too loud. |
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Destoya
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
14
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Posted - 2012.12.02 22:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
*Bans: Banning format was very refreshing, went a long way towards making this tournament more complex than the ones in the past. I think with more experience and practice from the teams themselves, it could get very interesting in future tournaments.
*Team size: While I really liked the 8-man teams for this tournament, I have to say I did not enjoy the 24 character limit per team. The aim of this tournament versus a traditional alliance tournament was to increase the viability of smaller, less known teams as serious contenders. Team flexibility is of utmost importance in a tournament with a banning format, and limiting team size to 24 characters instead of 24 members gives a decided advantage to the older characters with hundreds of millions of SP. Just seems contrary to the idea that has been preached for a long time that younger players can equal or surpass older players through their alts and specialization.
*Teams: Teams are a good idea, but they lose a lot of the meaning for most of the average viewers. In EVE, people identify themselves with their alliances (or corps), which creates interesting comradeship and rivalries between viewers. The idea of small teams is somewhat foreign to EVE, and I feel like a lot of the reason why this tournament wasn't as popular as previous was that the average pilot couldnt identify with the teams themselves. I think an average person has heard of the big names like Goonswarm, Pandemic Legion, HYDRA and formed at least some opinion on them based on their actions ingame. However, they are unable to identify who is actually on these teams and thus have no reason to cheer for one team above any other. This might change in future events after we start to get more experience with the same team names, but I'm not really sure how to solve this otherwise.
*UI: I really enjoyed the new control bars, as they quantified what a team was capable of a little better. Some things I would like to see added is a game counter in the Bo3/Bo5 matches, as well as make the banned ships a little more visible and evident (perhaps a graphic before the match with the ship portraits?).
*Bo3/Bo5: I like the idea of best of matches, but it does make for a LOT of downtime between matches with a 40 minute banning sessions. Shortening the ban reaction time is an option, but that presents other complications with making sure the people are in the right ships and etc. Post-game team interviews have been brought up,and I think there is space for more fun events between matches.
I know you already realize that you screwed up pretty badly in the time leading up to this tournament, so I'm not going to touch on it too much. Listening to player feedback through methods like this is a good start though, so I hope that next time around some of the issues are ironed out. Similarly, I want to see better publicity next time around, as there was pretty much nothing |
Samson Davis
Ouroboros Consortium
0
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Posted - 2012.12.02 22:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Completely awesome the bars were helpful the commentator were really good. Was upset that I didn't get to watch all of them live, but I did make my wife stream it on her phone while I drove places. Thank you CCP, Razer, and Own3d tv for an awesome tourney and well the teams and sponsors that lost their ships. |
Shadoo
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
233
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Posted - 2012.12.02 22:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
I tried to come up with a more elegant way of putting this, but falling short once again but I'll comment quickly on one of the points made during the last day around teams vs. alliances.
One of the reasons I tuned out completely this time around, except for the final day, was because there was little to no larger EVE context to the event. Alliances/Corporations were absent, teams were made of pilots -- but since everyone in EVE uses alts that didn't really feel relevant to me either. Alliance Tournament back from 2005 onwards to me has been around a competition which is disconnected, but still somehow relevant to the game I play rest of the year.
Without that connection, with people I know forming teams and flying in multiple teams just felt a bit meh. EVE isn't terribly interesting game to watch on a stream, being brutally honest here, at least to me -- it's always more about the grounded larger subtext. EVE is interesting to play, because the UI has so much detail to show what's going on and what your gang/fleet/etc members are telling you -- but this just doesn't to me come across well in a streamed format just yet. The control/attack/defense bars seemed interesting, but without scaling that up to individual ships -- didn't seem wildly relevant to how the match was going. Camera work was very good though, and they managed to pickup the ships in danger of flying out of boundary and caught some memorable occasions, so good work on that.
I think one of the main reasons the teams which WERE sponsored or named after alliances didn't really feel like "their" teams either, was at least from my personal experience point of view largely down to the price format. A cash price to me encourages small team work. It incentives you to attempt to win with as few real people as possible to pickup as much of the per member $ as possible.
In a game, which is ALL about team work that scales up to tens of thousands of people driving towards the same goal -- that just seems out of place. The Why Dash team which was sponsored by PL for example, did not practice, theory craft or draw much of anything aside from isk from the alliance sponsoring it. It therefore didn't feel like "our" team to me, and thus I didn't even tune in to watch the matches. I think that's largely due to the price pool. To draft in help from hundreds of pilots to test and practice would feel pretty dumb to go and win 6000$ which you then split between a dozen dudes.
I don't think that's bad, it gives smaller VERY focused teams who don't care anything about the corporation/alliance a good place to put a ton of effort in and win a competitive tournament, because the larger entities who would be able to test/practice/etc do not care enough to participate.
But... It doesn't make it very compelling viewing unfortunately, at least it didn't for me. I think that's fine, and the ~3000-4000 people tuning are probably the most hardcore/interested folks out there. Just seemed to me like the broadcast format was still targeted towards the LARGE crowd format, and thus just felt a little out of place. I would personally been happy with just an audio commentary running along the great camera work guys pulled out this time around with maybe little more put into the screen about what was happening at each of the ships (with a larger delay on stream in order to not make it competitively sensitive).
This seemed to me like a pro player tournament, so making the cast/screen better fit to that audience just would to me anyway been more relevant. Anyway, good tourney -- I did enjoy watching the last days matches. |
Sakura Nihil
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
51
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Posted - 2012.12.02 22:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
* The last weekend had way too much commentary in between fights. It was if it was a talk show, with the occaisional 10 minute interruption to have a fight.
* The schedule / brackets / standings need to be a lot more visible. During ATX, we often were shown the brackets (especially in the final day or group stages), which gave people an idea of where we stood with things. Here, it was far less clear.
* I like the double elimination and ban concepts, it got rid of the potential for shennanigans or pointless fights, as well as endless cookie-cutter matchups.
* Better scheduling next year, please avoid the holidays if at all possible. Might I suggest February for next time, with maybe August for the tournament? It would allow CCP to release an expansion, give people two months to train and figure out setups, and then go fight it out. For the open, a lot of the same meta we saw in ATX was still valid.
* Much love to Verone and Raivi for their commentary. Even MB3 wasn't terrible, so one internet to him. Soundwave, keep up the awesome .
* The bars were a very nice addition, they should definitely be used again for the next tourney.
On the whole? Not bad, would give it a 7.5/10. And I'm a harsh judge. |
Lolmer
Yahoo Inc Caffeine Nicotine and Hate
70
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Posted - 2012.12.02 23:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Loved the information in the new client, but I could barely read any of the fonts in the lower layout, and the ship/player/distance information in the top screen not at all.
Was watching the "HD" 480p (though that's not actually HD...720p is the lowest HD resolution) on my 62" 720p television, if that helps. Was also blurry on my 1440x900 MacBook Pro on 480p. |
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CCP Bro
C C P C C P Alliance
52
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Posted - 2012.12.02 23:32:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thank you guys for the feedback so far and thanks for everyone that watched and participated. As the producer of this tournament I know first hand that there were things that we could have done way better and we had ideas on how to do so but unfortunately father time wasn't good to us before this event. However with more lead up to the next event and with your feedback I think we can make the next tournament much better!
So please continue giving us your feedback!
Additionally I would like to apologize for the delays on the last 2 days, unfortunately unforeseen circumstances caused us to run a bit behind schedule but we will work towards having redundancies in place to deal with those in future events. |
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jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
167
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Posted - 2012.12.02 23:42:00 -
[17] - Quote
I thought it was good, over all. I don't think I need to tell you that the technical issues were annoying but there's only so much you can do about that. Patching the camera client would have been a good start, though.
The ban system is fantastic. It makes the meta so much more visible and intricate. 2 bans also seems well balanced for most matches. Enough to disrupt standard comps but leaves room for exciting and flexible improvisation (e.g., the Scorpion gambit in the final match).
The best of 3/best of 5 format is likewise exciting, but in the future I think it might be worth really doing something that forces the teams to get creative toward the end, and make it a real test of pilot skill. Easy solution: In multi-game matches, have the bans be cumulative. They ban two each first round, and one each every following round, but the bans carry over. It does restrict the available setups a lot and you would never see the same setup twice, which is both good and bad, but my favorite part of these tournaments is seeing the familiar minmatar rush/vargur barrage/blaster BS setups get chucked for something totally inventive and out-there. Making everyone realize that they need enough set-up depth to have all of their favorites ruled out and still find something to fly? The winners would have to really be the best of the best.
The downtime is an issue with those multi-part matches, even when there aren't technical glitches. The downtime seems basically unavoidable, and while the upcoming-patch dialogs are kind of interesting, you still end up with some blather time toward the end. Maybe have a dev frigate dueling league to run in between matches that you can show. Guard vs. Ytterbium would be a riot.
Match size was great. ATXI qualifiers should never drop below 8v8. 12v12 still seems useful for the primary tournament, because as much as this was good, there's a level of intricacy, planning, and just totally different strategies once you get up to 12v12 matches that I think is still valuable. Mostly I will be very interested to see the evolving 12v12 meta with the ban system in place.
DE format had advantages in terms of balance and number of fights but was also very confusing. At a minimum you need infographics with the match brackets so we know what the hell is going on. Maybe an interactive scenario planner on the website so we can actually predict who will be fighting what next.
Studio background was excruciatingly dull (and had constant issues). Green/blue screening is all well and good, but if you're going to do it, make sure your table and people mesh with it, and do more with it than you could have done with the static set you used for ATX. For eff's sake, put on Jitacam in the background or something. Give us the station windows we've always asked for.
EDIT: Oh, and tourney overlay was great. No real changes needed, though it'll get cramped in 12v12. Maybe get really fancy in the qualifiers and do "points needed to win" or just give commentators ability to highlight important ships to watch. Oh, and have ships flash/highlight wen taking damage. Commentators talking about something being invulnerable as it melts is funny but not exactly the effect you want. |
Seldarine
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
63
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Posted - 2012.12.03 00:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
First of all, an amazing tournament, you can read all my thanx in my special thanx thread.
As for some feedback, yeh all the delays. Made it super stressful for the teams, and dull for the viewers.
Also with the best of 3 and best of 5, along with the banning rule, the in-game prizes should have been a lot higher, since to compete effectively it required a lot more isk and preparation to participate in this tournament than the Alliance Tournament yet the prizes for this one were substantially lower.
One final point, I feel that CCP could have done more to publicise the individual teams, maybe some sort of audio round table or something to publicise the tournament and generate some hype.
Apart from those few points I felt it was an amazing tournament, and an honour to make it to the final 3
Well done CCP |
Romvex
192
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Posted - 2012.12.03 00:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
I only have one quarrel with the overall tourney; PLEASE let ships use faction and deadspace mods, I just have a fetish with super pimped out alliance tournament ships being blown up. I really don't see the reason why they can only use t1 and t2. if there is an important reason someone please explain Post with your main |
Ethan Revenant
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
22
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Posted - 2012.12.03 01:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
Overall, pretty good. Having a format where people are fielding AT ships all over the place is fantastic and we need to see more of those in action.
Here's what I'd like to see improved:
1) Capacitor information, capacitor information, capacitor information. I realize you're already losing a lot of screen real estate to all of the other overview stuff, but if you can implement this for whatever tournament comes next, this will be a huge help in following fights with capacitor warfare.
2) If you have lots of unavoidable delays, things like the Jitacam or dev exhibition matches showing off various aspects of ships work well. I missed the Jitacam. If you have a lot of time, maybe you could use the greenscreen to talk about some ships commonly used in the tournament -- show the hull, show its stats, maybe have a little animated display of it firing its lazors or whatever. Having a backup plan for when you have dead air time will really make a difference.
3) Having clear brackets that are updated throughout the tournament are direly needed. Somewhat connected to this, because the teams are independent of their in-game banners, so to speak, you may need to give a little more airtime to contextualizing the teams.
4) The cash prize seemed irrelevant to me. The Alliance Tournament feels a lot more like it's about glory and amazing prizes, even if the glory and prizes are entirely in game. This felt more like people were in it just to fight, not because they actually cared about what they got for winning. It won't have any lasting repercussion in game. |
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Lazlo Ho
Another Day Older
1
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Posted - 2012.12.03 01:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
More matches is better so consider, in the later days where there are less matches, revisiting previous ones via replay. See if you can get commentary from the pilot to go with it or something.
I can't think of anything else to offer. I like the broadcast as it is so if you change nothing I'll still tune in for the next one anyways. |
MeagerMiner
TEAM GFY
2
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Posted - 2012.12.03 04:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
I would pay 100 times over.. (oh wait, it was free).. 1000 times over to watch the next one... ..
The whole thing overall seemed to go very well. I enjoyed the whole show on the last day, delays and all.
Learned a lot from the content you guys provided..
Much thanks to the own3D TV people for makin this kick ass !!
Thanks to Razer for continued support too...
Appreciate all the hard work behind the scenes to make this happen from CCP staff .. on top of busting their asses for Retribution... |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
66
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Posted - 2012.12.03 06:11:00 -
[23] - Quote
Romvex wrote:I only have one quarrel with the overall tourney; PLEASE let ships use faction and deadspace mods, I just have a fetish with super pimped out alliance tournament ships being blown up. I really don't see the reason why they can only use t1 and t2. if there is an important reason someone please explain It's because it should be about the best piloting skills, and not who can afford the most pimped out taction ship. I like it how it is right now. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Edward Tivruskii
Sephray Industries Serenitas Solutus
0
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Posted - 2012.12.03 06:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
so what about the tournament winner prediction give aways?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=173295
and for the criticism: 1) I had a blast. Great Tournament!
2) no bracket graphics ... I have never seen any tournament without a visual of the bracket situation ... how am I supposed to keep track of the tournament? I complained about this every week and foxfour and whomever took note ... nothing changed in the course of 3 weeks. Is it that difficult to prepare them? 3) your team info slides looked ****** |
Axel Stryder
Resilience. Pandemic Legion
0
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Posted - 2012.12.03 11:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Get rid off CCP Dolan and you're good. |
HaartSp
The Deliberate Forces HYDRA RELOADED
14
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Posted - 2012.12.03 13:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
Organizing enough people to practice can be one of the biggest obstacles for many teams, especially the smaller ones. It would be good if team size in each match was kept small in future tournaments. Maybe bring it down from 12 to 10 again or even 8 for alliance tournaments. Matches will be easier to follow and each pilot will matter that much more. |
Seldarine
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
74
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Posted - 2012.12.03 13:41:00 -
[27] - Quote
HaartSp wrote:Organizing enough people to practice can be one of the biggest obstacles for many teams, especially the smaller ones. It would be good if team size in each match was kept small in future tournaments. Maybe bring it down from 12 to 10 again or even 8 for alliance tournaments. Matches will be easier to follow and each pilot will matter that much more.
Yeh this for sure.
Also some form of secure training on the test server. I do believe CCP are trying to work out something for this, and I believe secure training will encourage more teams to participate.
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xo3e
The Deliberate Forces HYDRA RELOADED
60
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Posted - 2012.12.03 13:48:00 -
[28] - Quote
make "blind" banning: teams see opponents bans only when all bans are done.
or just dont tell first ban to team that bans second, because it gives advantage that based on random.
also do something with cap transfer turtles (seriously, that last Hitama-Ronin match was absolutely not cool) Signature removed. Navigator |
cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers THORN Alliance
93
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Posted - 2012.12.03 16:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
I watched most of the matches and I have to say I enjoyed it. Some great team play from some of the teams the level of play has certainly gone up.
I would say two things.
1. I assume you are adding the videos to your youtube channel?
2. It would have been great if this tournament was advertised more in game, have Giant billboards by major stargates.
So yes looking forwards to the next Alliance tournament now. Hopefully we shall see some awesome rare ships as prizes again =D "Were not elitists, were just tired of fail" - The Sorn |
Nimbor
D.A.R.P.A.
0
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Posted - 2012.12.03 16:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
i did not like the bans i missed something exciting like the arena shrinking in size over time as the fight progresses i didnt like the reflection of the bluescreen in the table i feel alot of small hiccups could have been easily avoided with a test broadcast i am sad alot of the mistake were being repeated during the tournament like the sounds issues i did not like the middle weekend being in the Thanksgiving weekend i missed at least the big names, or the single big alliance teams |
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