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Crunac Arclight
Swedish Aerospace Inc The Kadeshi
0
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Posted - 2011.10.05 17:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
When is it right to use an afterburner in a vanguard fitted Legion? Is it a big difference having it running and "speedtanking" or is it viable to skip the afterburner and just sit still or orbit at normal speed without having to overtank it in other ways?
At which EHP point are you gonna have to begin orbiting (with or without afterburner) to maintain some amount of safety as opposed to sitting still.
I've heard lots of different opinions but none satisfying...
Some say that you HAVE to orbit with AB or you become a sitting duck. Some of these people have deadspace resistance plates and 1600mm plates + armor rigs. Some have one or two resistance modules and that's it.
Others say that the incoming damage reduction gained from orbiting with afterburner is very small and just sit still with Tracking Comps or Webifiers instead of an AB. I've seen both overtanked fittings and fittings that seemed a bit chancy at best for a billion+ ISK ship.
Could it be as simple as: If no 1600mm plate, then AB and vice versa?
Whats the verdict?
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Lugalzagezi666
7
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Posted - 2011.10.05 17:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
No. Fit another web or tracking computer. |
Sin Meng
Creative Assembly
10
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Posted - 2011.10.05 18:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'm my experience with the legion or any T3 for that matter, I've rarely had to move at all. If I did have to move it wasn't so urgent that I needed a propulsion mod to get there in time, base speed has always been enough. That said my legion now has a MWD on it but thats for my specific role as the ore dropoff guy in NMCs. Elements of the past and the future combining to make something not quite as good as either. |
JackStraw56
Bayesian Motion Knights of Tomorrow
9
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Posted - 2011.10.05 20:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
No afterburner required for tanking. Sit still in order to maximize tracking unless you are really taking a pounding, then start to orbit something to reduce damage a bit. An afterburner does add a decent amount of tank, but it's just not needed on a Legion. |
Sturmwolke
15
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Posted - 2011.10.05 23:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
Crunac Arclight wrote: Whats the verdict?
You don't strictly need an AB for the Legion in vanguards, it has plenty of tank to survive the Tamas - it's mainly the Augas and Romis that you need to sweat about (EM/Therm lasers). The AB (if equipped) in vanguards is mainly for mobility e.g. dropping ore, getting closer to the spawn points .... if you speed tank with it, you'll ruin your tracking. Gunboats are not missile boats.
Lots of folks tend to refer to EHP amount. Imo, for armor ships - it is better to look at total armor HP and resists, and also look at the RR defence efficiency. The basic rule of thumb for battleship class is a MINIMUM of 10K armor (15K or above is more comfortable) with MINIMUM 70% resist for EM, Therm, Kin and Exp (75% or above is recommended). The RR defence efficiency that you need to aim for is 300 or above from a single Meta4 Large Solace, lower will work .... but you may annoy some logi pilots.
For cruiser class (don't confuse with battlecruisers), you can easily get away with probably 6-8K armor as minimum .... but I'd recommend at least 10K armor for increased safety margin and you don't have to swap config for assaults or higher. The standard Incursion Legion has between 17-20K armor, which makes it tough enough for use in ALL sites without needing to meddle with refits. It's one of the primary reasons why 1600mm plate is standard on it.
Word of caution, if you take your Legion to Assaults, HQs or even the Kudalini site, always always fit an AB. Kick-in the AB when you get primaried, don't underestimate the alpha damage as your time to get repped may be as long as 10-15secs after broadcast.
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Lugalzagezi666
7
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Posted - 2011.10.06 09:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
Try to get 50k armor ehp. It will be enough. If you trust your logi pilots you can do with less.
Also leave ore transportation to logis, every movement messes your tracking and posibly moves you away from optimal range.
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Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2011.10.06 14:27:00 -
[7] - Quote
I use 2 fed navy webs and 2 speed scripted tracking computers. Had a couple people comment/whine that I didn't have an AB, but it works just fine. With propulsion systems 5, and the fact that you're in a cruiser you sig tank plenty of damage without the extra speed.
Does it help? Of course. But don't let anyone tell you it's necessary. There are plenty of other FC's out there that aren't morons. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
116
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Posted - 2011.10.07 01:14:00 -
[8] - Quote
not to derail your question, but could you post your fit, as for the question, for vanguards i don think its needed, anything more i would have one though |
Crunac Arclight
Swedish Aerospace Inc The Kadeshi
0
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Posted - 2011.10.07 13:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
After some tinkering I am probably gonna go with this fit when flying with my regular FC with fleetboosts and known logis.
Gives 49,2K EHP (With fleetboost I should be well above that)
[Legion, Vanguard Legion 1] Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Corelum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Corelum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Armor Thermic Hardener II
Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed Tracking Computer II, Tracking Speed True Sansha Stasis Webifier
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Medium Anti-EM Pump I Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II
Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization
If I am going with randoms, I will probably switch out a Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane for a 1600mm plate.
With that fit resists will drop a bit but still be above 70 by a fair margin, instead I will have 76,3K EHP. |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
121
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Posted - 2011.10.07 14:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
hm, i would think u shuld always fit 1600mm plate, the raw armor HP u get will be huge, its just hard to fit without AWU 5. |
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Mina Sebiestar
Mactabilis Simplex Cursus
8
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Posted - 2011.10.07 16:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
at least one buff mod for the times when you don't run with people you usually do or for o'sht moments. |
Marcus Gideon
Federal Defense Operations Gentlemen's Interstellar Nightclub
2
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Posted - 2011.10.08 16:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
This is pretty much the standard issue VG Legion fit...
[Legion, Incursion- Pulse] Damage Control II Imperial Navy Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink Imperial Navy Heat Sink 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M Heavy Pulse Laser II, Conflagration M
Medium Anti-Thermic Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating Legion Electronics - Tactical Targeting Network Legion Engineering - Power Core Multiplier Legion Offensive - Liquid Crystal Magnifiers Legion Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
All V says... 70/71/77/88 97k ehp, 20k armor 730 dps, 2100 volley
200m/s w/o AB, 580 w/ AB
These numbers are easily improved with some LG/HG Slaves and laser buffing implants.
As far as the AB is concerned...
I leave it off during most of the site, only orbiting the anchor. If I draw wave aggro, then I'll fire it up until the aggro clears. The speed boost combined with the orbit makes it easy as pie for the Logi to keep you repped without worry.
Sure, you can leave the AB off and let your base speed tank for you. But I find this fit more than adequate for making my wallet blink! =) |
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