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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2102
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:01:00 -
[31] - Quote
AndromacheDarkstar wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:AndromacheDarkstar wrote:Just felt the need to point something out here, the reason you are losing drones from your drone boats is because the AI is actually acting intelligently. Its doing somthing PVP`ers would do when faced with a boat that does its DPS through drones and removing the threat. This provides a challenge, if you dont like challenging gameplay then eve is not for you and you are welcome to leave, the door is over there.
I never thought a Malestrom or Vargur did their DPS through drones. That has clearly to be the reason why the intelligently acting AI shoots some Warriors I, while 8 x 800mm autocannons farm them like a meatgrinder. They cant remove your ship DPS as quickly as they can remove your drone DPS
I have yet to see anyone in PvP being fixated killing my Minmatar ship's drones. Maybe because it's stupid? So why do you say AI is acting intelligently if they can't even adapt to who is attacking them?
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
10541
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:13:00 -
[32] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:As a related question, are the NPC's only switching their targets to your drones if they are closer to them than you are? No, they switch to the drones if they perceive them to be either a bigger threat than anything else on the field or if they see them as "new arrivals" (which is one of their main pet peeves and which will often trigger their ire).
One of the ways to keep fire off the drones is to ensure that something else looks like a bigger problem - something like, say, an ewar ship or a remote support ship or some other kind of force multiplier that the AI feels the need to take care of first to cut down on the difficulty of the opposition. When such a target is identified, the AI will conclude that it needs to be killed first, and that the relatively weak drone DPS can wait until later. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan. |
Planktal
Kenshao Industries
55
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
All interesting comments but for the fact the new NPC AI is broken right out the door. Just have to, after getting the first aggro, is launch mediums, wait for them to catch aggro (usually takes about 10-15 seconds) retrieve then wait 10 seconds then relaunch, aggro free for the rest of the room. May have to pull back and relaunch if a new wave spawns. even lights work if you wait until the second launch cause they die fast if launched first. Here sanity, nice sanity.....*THWOOK* Got the bastard |
Rensari
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
At least OP is recognizing that drones are not viable for pve anymore.
They need to add an overheat mechanism to guns so they become worthless after 10 seconds and we will see if the OPs attitude changes. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
487
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:54:00 -
[35] - Quote
AndromacheDarkstar wrote:Just felt the need to point something out here, the reason you are losing drones from your drone boats is because the AI is actually acting intelligently. Its doing somthing PVP`ers would do when faced with a boat that does its DPS through drones and removing the threat. This provides a challenge, if you dont like challenging gameplay then eve is not for you and you are welcome to leave, the door is over there.
Until ALL NPCs also begin to "intelligently" attack your turrets' ability to do damage by TDing them, AND also ALL NPCs "intelligently" begin to spam defender missiles to reduce your launchers' ability to do damage, you have no case. Better luck next time. |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
488
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
Planktal wrote:All interesting comments but for the fact the new NPC AI is broken right out the door. Just have to, after getting the first aggro, is launch mediums, wait for them to catch aggro (usually takes about 10-15 seconds) retrieve then wait 10 seconds then relaunch, aggro free for the rest of the room. May have to pull back and relaunch if a new wave spawns. even lights work if you wait until the second launch cause they die fast if launched first.
you do know that's a bug ccp is going to fix soon right? Check out the thread in the Test Server Feedback forum.
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
787
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
Tippia wrote:JC Anderson wrote:As a related question, are the NPC's only switching their targets to your drones if they are closer to them than you are? No, they switch to the drones if they perceive them to be either a bigger threat than anything else on the field or if they see them as "new arrivals" (which is one of their main pet peeves and which will often trigger their ire). One of the ways to keep fire off the drones is to ensure that something else looks like a bigger problem - something like, say, an ewar ship or a remote support ship or some other kind of force multiplier that the AI feels the need to take care of first to cut down on the difficulty of the opposition. When such a target is identified, the AI will conclude that it needs to be killed first, and that the relatively weak drone DPS can wait until later.
TY
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
489
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:56:00 -
[38] - Quote
Tippia wrote:JC Anderson wrote:As a related question, are the NPC's only switching their targets to your drones if they are closer to them than you are? No, they switch to the drones if they perceive them to be either a bigger threat than anything else on the field or if they see them as "new arrivals" (which is one of their main pet peeves and which will often trigger their ire). One of the ways to keep fire off the drones is to ensure that something else looks like a bigger problem - something like, say, an ewar ship or a remote support ship or some other kind of force multiplier that the AI feels the need to take care of first to cut down on the difficulty of the opposition. When such a target is identified, the AI will conclude that it needs to be killed first, and that the relatively weak drone DPS can wait until later.
Doesn't quite work that way. Sometimes you can stop them from switching, sometimes you can't, a few times i've even unloaded a boatload of threat (ecm, webs, mach dps, remote repping) and STILL watched noc frigs continue to chew my light drones up. CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
513
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:59:00 -
[39] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:AndromacheDarkstar wrote:Just felt the need to point something out here, the reason you are losing drones from your drone boats is because the AI is actually acting intelligently. Its doing somthing PVP`ers would do when faced with a boat that does its DPS through drones and removing the threat. This provides a challenge, if you dont like challenging gameplay then eve is not for you and you are welcome to leave, the door is over there.
I never thought a Malestrom or Vargur did their DPS through drones. That has clearly to be the reason why the intelligently acting AI shoots some Warriors I, while 8 x 800mm autocannons farm them like a meatgrinder.
Drone tanking? Bumping, leave it alone. |
cBOLTSON
Star Frontiers THORN Alliance
94
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Posted - 2012.12.05 13:59:00 -
[40] - Quote
Humm Im on the fence with this issue. Its great that AI is stronger now and yes they should shoot drones, but lets be honest here -
The idea is that NPC AI acts somewhat more like people, it would be a rare day that a FC calls a whole fleet to primary a single drone.
I dont know, either drones are a separate true weapon system next to guns and missiles, or they are just a 'sidearm' either way more needs to be done! "Were not elitists, were just tired of fail" - The Sorn |
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2104
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:02:00 -
[41] - Quote
cBOLTSON wrote:Humm Im on the fence with this issue. Its great that AI is stronger now and yes they should shoot drones, but lets be honest here -
The idea is that NPC AI acts somewhat more like people, it would be a rare day that a FC calls a whole fleet to primary a single drone.
And the day a FC calls a single drone as primary, it'll be an Acolyte. Because it begins with "A" Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
513
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 14:03:00 -
[42] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:
The thread title led me to believe I would be posting in another "oh nose my drones!" thread - but what you said a thousand times! Those poor little mission runners - suddenly, their predictable little missions aren't predictable anymore. Too bad they won't listen, though, because making excuses for their just being generally bad at EVE (hence why they run missions and don't like change) is all they're really good at.
So them liking a different style of play than you makes them bad at Eve? Conceited much? Bumping, leave it alone. |
De'Veldrin
East India Ore Trade The East India Co.
513
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:04:00 -
[43] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:Kitty Bear wrote:[the only place where there is zero risk in eve is INSIDE a station but that doesn't make nulsec sound as badass, so therefore nulsec dwellers declared that nulsec risk is riskier risk because it's riskier risk.
For some reason this reminded me of known knowns, and known unknowns, along with unknown knowns.
Let's discuss the unknown risks with this project.
Sadly, I actually had a manager say that in a meeting once. Bumping, leave it alone. |
destiny2
50
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Posted - 2012.12.05 14:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
AndromacheDarkstar wrote:Just felt the need to point something out here, the reason you are losing drones from your drone boats is because the AI is actually acting intelligently. Its doing somthing PVP`ers would do when faced with a boat that does its DPS through drones and removing the threat. This provides a challenge, if you dont like challenging gameplay then eve is not for you and you are welcome to leave, the door is over there.
Alternatively you could think about how you play the game and maybe, just maybe try something new when running your 450th mission in a row in you drone boat you havent ever lost with the 1 set of drones you bought 3 years ago. Maybe pick up a ship with guns, get some friends in to share the reward, maybe use your drone boat for pvp.
Which brings me to the next point, drone boats are not dead, just dead to you. I still love drones in PVP. Your playing EVE ladies and gents. Man up
looseing light,heavy,med,sentry drones arent as bad as looseing some fighters lol. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
141
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 15:27:00 -
[45] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:The thread title led me to believe I would be posting in another "oh nose my drones!" thread - but what you said a thousand times! Those poor little mission runners - suddenly, their predictable little missions aren't predictable anymore. Too bad they won't listen, though, because making excuses for their just being generally bad at EVE (hence why they run missions and don't like change) is all they're really good at.
Uh-huh. I can't wait for CCP to make NPCs start shooting down missiles. New Eden will drown in your tears. EvE Forum Bingo |
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9 Quantum Cafe
114
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Posted - 2012.12.05 16:17:00 -
[46] - Quote
The reason they are loosing drones is because they are use to autopiloting their way through EVE isk making.
Situational awareness is the problem. The desire to actually be active in something is the problem. Pay more attention to the battle-space. Problem solved.
Flying with a group helps. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
Lord Okinaba
46
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Posted - 2012.12.05 16:50:00 -
[47] - Quote
AndromacheDarkstar wrote:Just felt the need to point something out here, the reason you are losing drones from your drone boats is because the AI is actually acting intelligently. Its doing somthing PVP`ers would do when faced with a boat that does its DPS through drones and removing the threat. This provides a challenge, if you dont like challenging gameplay then eve is not for you and you are welcome to leave, the door is over there.
Alternatively you could think about how you play the game and maybe, just maybe try something new when running your 450th mission in a row in you drone boat you havent ever lost with the 1 set of drones you bought 3 years ago. Maybe pick up a ship with guns, get some friends in to share the reward, maybe use your drone boat for pvp.
Which brings me to the next point, drone boats are not dead, just dead to you. I still love drones in PVP. Your playing EVE ladies and gents. Man up
Oh right, so why do they still go after my drones when most of my DPS is coming from my turrets?
There's nothing smart or intelligent about this new AI. Frigs have been programmed to attack drones at all cost, that's it.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. This update doesn't just effect drone boats it effects all boats which use drones of any kind, which is most of them.
Congratulation on making Drones for all boats kamikaze drones. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
1939
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Posted - 2012.12.05 16:56:00 -
[48] - Quote
AndromacheDarkstar wrote:, the reason you are losing drones from your drone boats is because the AI is actually acting intelligently. Its doing somthing PVP`ers would do when faced with a boat that does its DPS through drones and removing the threat.
LOL!
I can't remember the last time an FC called my drones as primary. Come back with your theory when you actually learn to PVP.
Mr Epeen
-ávOv |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
142
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 16:57:00 -
[49] - Quote
BoBoZoBo wrote:The reason they are loosing drones is because they are use to autopiloting their way through EVE isk making.
You've just revealed just how much you really know about being a drone captain. Or rather how little.
BoBoZoBo wrote:Situational awareness is the problem. The desire to actually be active in something is the problem. Pay more attention to the battle-space. Problem solved.
No, problem is not solved and that is the problem. It no longer matters if you're paying attention or not. Drones are drawing aggro from 12+ ships at once and getting insta-killed in one salvo. Drone Durability 4, Battlecruisers 5, using Navy Drones in a Myrmidon and watching Navy Drones die in one second flat tells me that this crap is crap.
BoBoZoBo wrote:Flying with a group helps.
Yes, now you can use your drones as aggro-fodder for your buddies while they rack up kills. I'd rather just fly a logi and save myself a few million ISK per mission in replacement expenses. EvE Forum Bingo |
Alysa Taal
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2012.12.05 17:06:00 -
[50] - Quote
Just found that salvage drones are insta popped too, even before they salvage.
Only by frigs too.
Something tells me the npc frigs arent working right, its overkill, I heard someone say sleepers arent too high on the frigs? maybe this is the problem, the AI is new on the frigs and a little high?
Not crying yet, the problem will be found, if they say its working right (which would be hard to believe) then I will cry like my lolipop had been stolen!
:) |
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Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
491
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 17:10:00 -
[51] - Quote
Alysa Taal wrote:Just found that salvage drones are insta popped too, even before they salvage.
Only by frigs too.
Something tells me the npc frigs arent working right, its overkill, I heard someone say sleepers arent too high on the frigs? maybe this is the problem, the AI is new on the frigs and a little high?
Not crying yet, the problem will be found, if they say its working right (which would be hard to believe) then I will cry like my lolipop had been stolen!
:)
Maybe so. I've had light drones popped almost as soon as I launched them despite the massive dps coming from my mach, the TP on the mach being active, remote reppping and dps from a second ship i was dual boxing ect ect. I could put them in fast enough.
It so irritating i've found other ways to deal with npc frigs. The same thing doesn't happen with sentries, I damn near can't get npcs to aggro sentries.
CCP Gargant:-á this game requires a certain amount of simply going out there and chatting with people. You will get scammed, destroyed, cheated, trolled, and blown up but that is just a part of the essence of this game. -á |
Abyssum Invocat
Justified Chaos
44
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Posted - 2012.12.05 17:29:00 -
[52] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:The thread title led me to believe I would be posting in another "oh nose my drones!" thread - but what you said a thousand times! Those poor little mission runners - suddenly, their predictable little missions aren't predictable anymore. Too bad they won't listen, though, because making excuses for their just being generally bad at EVE (hence why they run missions and don't like change) is all they're really good at. Uh-huh. I can't wait for CCP to make NPCs start shooting down missiles. New Eden will drown in your tears. They already do, it's called defender missiles. |
Lord Okinaba
47
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Posted - 2012.12.05 17:37:00 -
[53] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:
It so irritating i've found other ways to deal with npc frigs. The same thing doesn't happen with sentries, I damn near can't get npcs to aggro sentries.
I'm finding this too. They're quite happy to watch my sentries go to work, but as soon as a light drone comes out they're all over it.
It's quite amusing that people are getting kicks out of drone boats apparently being dead, when true drone boats like the Dominix are probably the least affected by this new AI.
AFKing in drone boats is just as viable than ever. Its the none dedicated drone boats with smaller bays and which rely on primarily small drones which are the most affected. |
Konrad Kane
Dirt Nap Squad
30
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Posted - 2012.12.05 18:06:00 -
[54] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:dexington wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:dexington wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:High sec PVE'ers moan about how they lose isk/hr from the AI changes, never admitting that they weren't really supposed to be able to make that much in the first place. to be fair null sec pve'ers whine just as much about the fact the hi-sec'ers are making almost as much isk as they are for significantly less risk Fixed. are you trying to say the null-sec pvp'ers are bad at pve, and this is not really a game balance problem but l2p issues? Try again.
Can you post your last lost mail while ratting, that'll help show everyone how risky Tenal is for ratters. |
Skex Relbore
Space Exploitation Inc Get Off My Lawn
196
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Posted - 2012.12.05 18:32:00 -
[55] - Quote
This was a stupid change, not that this surprises me much. The idea that rats are shooting drones to better simulate a real PVP players is idiotic, Most PVPers don't even have drones on their overview so we sure as hell aren't focusing fire on them. Generally if any attention is paid to drones in PVP at all it's by fitting smart bombs on some ships to dust them off. Further for the most part the ships that really rely on Drones for damage tend to have sufficient spares that can be launched that you just end up wasting time shooting the drones that could be better spent shooting the ship launching them.
Now I get the want to make PVE more interesting and harder to do afk/semiafk but let's get real. The only reason for PVE content (At least missions and ratting) in this game is to inject currency into the economy and provide a way for people who don't want to play the markets or manufacture stuff to make a little isk to do the stuff that actually is interesting to do.
In the end this was a solution in search of a problem.
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Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
1516
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Posted - 2012.12.05 18:39:00 -
[56] - Quote
Skex Relbore wrote:This was a stupid change, not that this surprises me much. The idea that rats are shooting drones to better simulate a real PVP players is idiotic, Most PVPers don't even have drones on their overview so we sure as hell aren't focusing fire on them. Generally if any attention is paid to drones in PVP at all it's by fitting smart bombs on some ships to dust them off. Further for the most part the ships that really rely on Drones for damage tend to have sufficient spares that can be launched that you just end up wasting time shooting the drones that could be better spent shooting the ship launching them.
Now I get the want to make PVE more interesting and harder to do afk/semiafk but let's get real. The only reason for PVE content (At least missions and ratting) in this game is to inject currency into the economy and provide a way for people who don't want to play the markets or manufacture stuff to make a little isk to do the stuff that actually is interesting to do.
In the end this was a solution in search of a problem.
I dunno about you but if I'm flying in a frig and I'm caught into an engagement, drones are gonna be pretty damn high on my list. The Drake is a Lie |
Skex Relbore
Space Exploitation Inc Get Off My Lawn
196
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Posted - 2012.12.05 18:44:00 -
[57] - Quote
Xercodo wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:This was a stupid change, not that this surprises me much. The idea that rats are shooting drones to better simulate a real PVP players is idiotic, Most PVPers don't even have drones on their overview so we sure as hell aren't focusing fire on them. Generally if any attention is paid to drones in PVP at all it's by fitting smart bombs on some ships to dust them off. Further for the most part the ships that really rely on Drones for damage tend to have sufficient spares that can be launched that you just end up wasting time shooting the drones that could be better spent shooting the ship launching them.
Now I get the want to make PVE more interesting and harder to do afk/semiafk but let's get real. The only reason for PVE content (At least missions and ratting) in this game is to inject currency into the economy and provide a way for people who don't want to play the markets or manufacture stuff to make a little isk to do the stuff that actually is interesting to do.
In the end this was a solution in search of a problem.
I dunno about you but if I'm flying in a frig and I'm caught into an engagement, drones are gonna be pretty damn high on my list.
Well that would certainly help to explain your killboard. |
Villaseni
Gallente 16th
0
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Posted - 2012.12.05 18:54:00 -
[58] - Quote
Just use a target painter on one rat...and your drones will never be aggro'd |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2112
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 19:00:00 -
[59] - Quote
Villaseni wrote:Just use a target painter on one rat...and your drones will never be aggro'd
Can you also give me 1 mid slot? Because I have to use 1 less hardener than any other race as is. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
1517
|
Posted - 2012.12.05 19:08:00 -
[60] - Quote
Skex Relbore wrote:Xercodo wrote:Skex Relbore wrote:This was a stupid change, not that this surprises me much. The idea that rats are shooting drones to better simulate a real PVP players is idiotic, Most PVPers don't even have drones on their overview so we sure as hell aren't focusing fire on them. Generally if any attention is paid to drones in PVP at all it's by fitting smart bombs on some ships to dust them off. Further for the most part the ships that really rely on Drones for damage tend to have sufficient spares that can be launched that you just end up wasting time shooting the drones that could be better spent shooting the ship launching them.
Now I get the want to make PVE more interesting and harder to do afk/semiafk but let's get real. The only reason for PVE content (At least missions and ratting) in this game is to inject currency into the economy and provide a way for people who don't want to play the markets or manufacture stuff to make a little isk to do the stuff that actually is interesting to do.
In the end this was a solution in search of a problem.
I dunno about you but if I'm flying in a frig and I'm caught into an engagement, drones are gonna be pretty damn high on my list. Well that would certainly help to explain your killboard.
You mean the KB with 90% of my losses being PVE fits or lol fits? (Still no regrets about the Burn Jita bhaalgorn xD)
That and the last several losses I had I was either caught by gang of players or there were no drones to speak of worth going for. My tactic doesn't really explain my KB at all from that standpoint. The Drake is a Lie |
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