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Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
276
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Posted - 2012.12.07 04:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Drones have had major issues for a long long time. They suck in a multitude of areas such as:
- Drone management- Ever try to organize a carrier with around 100 drones of different types into groups? Gotta be un-docked for that too!
- Drone Usage- It is significantly harder to use drones. The window is a pain to use!
- Drone Performance- The amarr drones have no use at all. Caldari for long range sentry, Gallente for damage, minmitar for speed.
- Drones Stats- They have a surprisingly large signature and are weak. One medium smart bomb can cripple a drone ship/fleet. (In a lag fest it can be hard to see that too)
- Drone Damage- A drone has to fly all the way over to that ship to hit anything. By the time a drone starts doing anything (except sentries) the target or you are almost dead
- Drone Repair- In order to fix a drone you either gotta dock , remote rep, or destroy a drone. Why can we not use nanite repair paste to fix a drone while it's in our hold?
The fact is drones are significantly harder to use. They cannot be overheated like a gun, they can be destroyed and there's a very limited number that can be fielded by a ship (While better for the servers, the fact is a Dominix losses more damage when it can only field 5 drones instead of 10), they cannot be repaired when broken, and the only real way to see them being hurt is if the window shows an update to their shields or visually.
Prior to the change drones have only had 2 consistent and effective uses; structure bashing and player versus enviroment combat.
1) Structure bashing- Drones make killing pos guns, structures (except poses when the shields are up), caps, and super caps much easier. In a contest over a tech moon, where does the FC have everybody put their drones while they call targets?
2) PvE- Except wormhole sleeper ai and sometimes Incursions, drones were pretty good for PvE; excluding belt ratting. They'd kill tackle frigs and slowly chip away at a random target in a room of a mission/complex.
As of now, only structure bashing remains the primary role for drones now. Yes they do help with killing off the tackle interceptor (unless your drakes 5 drones die or the ship is too fast). But as far as gang warfare, it's not an effective weapon platform. Those 800 dps ishtars/gilas are using heavy drones (the slowest and biggest movable drone in existence) or sentries which tend to get left behind in a mobile fight which kills drone ships considering how big sentries are in a drone hold.
C.C.P. approaches drone fixes as a politician will approach clean coal. It's a hot button issue that scores them points when they talk about it at Fan Fest, but nothing really gets done. They've given out drone damage amplifiers but those really feel like a token drake module. Didn't C.C.P. promise removing the drone management window entirely in favor of something that goes on the same buttons as your guns/points/dc2?
I really think drones are a bigger issue than is given discussion. I think it's time for C.C.P. to sit down and decide what to do with drones in a comprehensive manner and present their plan to the community or remove drones all together; adjusting ships to compensate as need be.
TL;DR: Drones need a complete overhaul. There just isn't anything intresting on the front page of the GD anymore. Yawn! |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1097
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Posted - 2012.12.07 04:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Amarr drones are actually useful, so you should probably drop that bullet point
EDIT: Also the thing about drone augmentation mods being split across multiple things and gun mods being wrapped up into one is also wrong, so I'd drop that too. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
2065
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Posted - 2012.12.07 04:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Amarr drones are actually useful How? Is there a non-PvE situation in which, instead of Warrior II's, you'd use the slower, lower damage, higher sig, worse tracking, but marginally tankier Acolyte II's?
EV drones don't count (and their use is marginal at best). Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1097
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Posted - 2012.12.07 04:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Amarr drones are actually useful How? Is there a non-PvE situation in which, instead of Warrior II's, you'd use the slower, lower damage, higher sig, worse tracking, but marginally tankier Acolyte II's? EV drones don't count (and their use is marginal at best).
Sure, say you're out hunting ratters in the North, they're not tanked for EM at all, they tank Kinetic and Thermal, so using EM works better.
There are other situations where you'd want them, most involve neutralizing shield ships until their hardeners go off.
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
2065
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Posted - 2012.12.07 04:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Amarr drones are actually useful How? Is there a non-PvE situation in which, instead of Warrior II's, you'd use the slower, lower damage, higher sig, worse tracking, but marginally tankier Acolyte II's? EV drones don't count (and their use is marginal at best). Sure, say you're out hunting ratters in the North, they're not tanked for EM at all, they tank Kinetic and Thermal, so using EM works better. There are other situations where you'd want them, most involve neutralizing shield ships until their hardeners go off. Mmyes, ganking defenseless PvE ships in a small area of Eve is a totally acceptable niche for a quarter of all combat drones in Eve. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
FluffyDice
Psykotic Meat Fatal Ascension
241
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Posted - 2012.12.07 04:47:00 -
[6] - Quote
Build a bridge and get over it. |
Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
277
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Posted - 2012.12.07 04:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Amarr drones are actually useful How? Is there a non-PvE situation in which, instead of Warrior II's, you'd use the slower, lower damage, higher sig, worse tracking, but marginally tankier Acolyte II's? EV drones don't count (and their use is marginal at best). Sure, say you're out hunting ratters in the North, they're not tanked for EM at all, they tank Kinetic and Thermal, so using EM works better. There are other situations where you'd want them, most involve neutralizing shield ships until their hardeners go off.
Just going to counter the energy vamp drones with a small tod bit about how the vamp drones receive diminishing returns the more are used. So, to that end, using a ship with a utility slot will get a much more effective neut/drain than the drones version. There just isn't anything intresting on the front page of the GD anymore. Yawn! |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings Damu'Khonde
2065
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Posted - 2012.12.07 04:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Why not have them at least match Minmatar drones in damage, so for ships with two flights (Ishkur?) they can deploy an anti-armor, or an anti-shield set?
There's also the issue of the Amarr drones simply not fitting into the progression from light/fast drones to heavy/slow drones. Rifterlings - small gang frigate PvP - low/nullsec operations, newbie-friendly, free ship program; Join today! www.rifterlings.com
Accidentally The Whole Frigate (blog) - Learning how to pew pew, one loss at a time - www.thewholefrigate.com |
Riddick Liddell
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.12.07 04:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
FluffyDice wrote:Build a bridge and get over it.
I don't have an answer either. |
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
168
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Posted - 2012.12.07 07:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Amarr drones are actually useful, so you should probably drop that bullet point.
Actually, I agree with her. Unless you're fighting rogue drones, Ammar drones are pretty useless. There isn't anything else with enough of a EM vulnerability to make up for the difference between the pathetic Ammar drone DPS and the awesome Gallente drone DPS.
EvE Forum Bingo |
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Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
278
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Posted - 2012.12.07 10:29:00 -
[11] - Quote
Katran Luftschreck wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Amarr drones are actually useful, so you should probably drop that bullet point. Actually, I agree with her. Unless you're fighting rogue drones, Ammar drones are pretty useless. There isn't anything else with enough of a EM vulnerability to make up for the difference between the pathetic Ammar drone DPS and the awesome Gallente drone DPS.
The only two things you'd want from the move drones is either speed or damage. Sentries would probably be damage at range so either caldari or minmitar; Gallente if you know you're going to have a good warp in. There just isn't anything intresting on the front page of the GD anymore. Yawn! |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
238
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Posted - 2012.12.07 10:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Amarr drones are actually useful How? Is there a non-PvE situation in which, instead of Warrior II's, you'd use the slower, lower damage, higher sig, worse tracking, but marginally tankier Acolyte II's? EV drones don't count (and their use is marginal at best).
Is there a non-PvE situation where carrier pilot would use Caldari/Gallente fighters over Amarr/Minmatar? |
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
579
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Posted - 2012.12.07 10:38:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP :
* Releases officer drone modules
* Makes drones useless for PVE
trollface.jpg FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
410
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Posted - 2012.12.07 10:43:00 -
[14] - Quote
Petrus Blackshell wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Amarr drones are actually useful How? Is there a non-PvE situation in which, instead of Warrior II's, you'd use the slower, lower damage, higher sig, worse tracking, but marginally tankier Acolyte II's? EV drones don't count (and their use is marginal at best).
Hunting guristas ratters, but mainly amarr t2 frigies. Still amarr/caldari are clearly very limited, i personally think they should be (much) tougher while having the same sort of combat effectiveness they do now. That way playershave a reason to use them.
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Zagdul
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
1149
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Posted - 2012.12.07 10:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Grath, you must be trolling. There's no situation that a Valkrye or Warrior wouldn't put an Amarr drone to shame. I don't know very many people who focus on explosive damage as their primary tank. Not to mention how many hulls are weak to it.
Good post. However, it belongs in Features and Ideas. Dual Pane idea: Click!
CCP Please Implement |
Methelic Mahyisti
Fiscal Fisting Inc. Imperial Protectorate
1
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Posted - 2012.12.07 11:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
I agree with OP. |
Debora Tsung
The Investment Bankers Guild
3
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Posted - 2012.12.07 11:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Acac Sunflyier wrote: Drone Repair- In order to fix a drone you either gotta dock , remote rep, or destroy a drone. Why can we not use nanite repair paste to fix a drone while it's in our hold?
That one would actually be cool, or maybe something like a drone repair module... There's nothing a million chinese guys can't do cheaper. |
Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
282
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Posted - 2012.12.07 18:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zagdul wrote: Good post. However, it belongs in Features and Ideas.
I disagree, I'm outlining everything wrong with drones. Not suggesting a fix. Basically I'm whining! There just isn't anything intresting on the front page of the GD anymore. Yawn! |
Dave stark
Black Nova Corp. R O G U E
765
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Posted - 2012.12.07 18:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
a little fix that would be nice; having drone groups as drag and droppable "modules" so that when you activate the "module" it launches that group of drones, and if they are already launched the button makes them attack/mine/salvage/repair etc and then right click to dock them like you right click to reload your turrets/asb etc. i think that'd go a long way to making drones slightly more intuitive. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
539
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Posted - 2012.12.07 18:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
Acac Sunflyier wrote:C.C.P. approaches drone fixes as a politician will approach clean coal. It's a hot button issue that scores them points when they talk about it at Fan Fest, but nothing really gets done. They've given out drone damage amplifiers but those really feel like a token drake module. Didn't C.C.P. promise removing the drone management window entirely in favor of something that goes on the same buttons as your guns/points/dc2?
They didn't really promise anything (they never do) and the image they showed was a mock-up. That is, just an artificially assembled image, not even a prototype. The way I see it, the approach to drone issues in EVE is as follows:
Drone users: Fix drones! Non-drone users: Drones are fine! L2P! CCP: There's drones in EVE?!
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1856
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Posted - 2012.12.07 19:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Acac Sunflyier wrote:C.C.P. approaches drone fixes as a politician will approach clean coal. It's a hot button issue that scores them points when they talk about it at Fan Fest, but nothing really gets done. They've given out drone damage amplifiers but those really feel like a token drake module. Didn't C.C.P. promise removing the drone management window entirely in favor of something that goes on the same buttons as your guns/points/dc2? They didn't really promise anything (they never do) and the image they showed was a mock-up. That is, just an artificially assembled image, not even a prototype. The way I see it, the approach to drone issues in EVE is as follows: Drone users: Fix drones! Non-drone users: Drones are fine! L2P! CCP: There's drones in EVE?! They changed the sounds, and there's sounds in EVE? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
1100
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Posted - 2012.12.07 19:24:00 -
[22] - Quote
Zagdul wrote:Grath, you must be trolling. There's no situation that a Valkrye or Warrior wouldn't put an Amarr drone to shame. I don't know very many people who focus on explosive damage as their primary tank. Not to mention how many hulls are weak to it.
Whats the most common ratter ship type up north?
When its invulns are off whats it weakest to damage wise?
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Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
283
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Posted - 2012.12.07 19:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Yoou know another thing? Back when they changed the drone boats to dmg over swarm, they changed drone interfacing to give 25% per level. But did it give a bonus to drone survivability as well? There just isn't anything intresting on the front page of the GD anymore. Yawn! |
Xercodo
Xovoni Directorate
1532
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Posted - 2012.12.07 19:34:00 -
[24] - Quote
Drone revamp:
Make drones into a point defense system, they essentially fly around in circles around the parent ship in a tight orbit. They never leave this orbit and fire from this position. Their engagement range will be made to match that of the old drone control range, much like sentries, but their tracking will reflect the old versions. The actual optimal will be effected by the drone navigation skill which will be renamed and respeced to work for these essentially stationary units.
Sentries will remain completely stationary and will be largely unchanged.
Signature radii are greatly reduced, with light drones being about the size of pods and ogres not being much larger than a small frigate (like a condor). To go with this all of their EHPs are greatly reduced as well. This way it'll be harder to hit one but if you do they'll likely insta pop. The Drake is a Lie |
Tanthalassa
State War Academy Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2012.12.08 03:08:00 -
[25] - Quote
UI, and not just the drone UI, was always my biggest turn offs in EvE. Now after a whole decade they decided to update targeting UI, which does look better, but far from perfect.
Drone UI itself is just an abomination. Can one even call it an interface? Let's see...
Groups of drones can be controlled with just attack/orbit/recall shortcuts.. Then the player has to put drop downs in good use - manually expanding/collapsing the groups so to see the health bars. Then one would have to use selected item menu for any particular drone to actually target it if the drone needs repairs or has to be individually recalled/whatever else. In case of repairs, one has to actually target your own drones and for whatever reason it takes longer than rats, lol.
Basically drone UI is massive clickfest through dropdowns.
There're plenty of ships that use drones as primary "weapon system." So why we are into the 2nd decade of Eve and the ships aren't even finished? No proper UI = unfinished. It was hardly acceptable before the Retribution. CCP decides to update AI, but UI wasn't and isn't a priority clearly.
It's interesting to see people posting the "adapt" lines on the subject. Well, sure. I still have a use to a small part of my 11.5kk drone sp, it is mostly sentries now. They work OK-ish on Ishtar with MWD, painter and 2 remote armor reps.
So, idc really if rat ai is changed - we'll get used to it, but i will never get used to stupendously clunky drone interface.
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Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
494
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Posted - 2012.12.08 03:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Drones have been crap for a long time. Now it's worse I suppose, but crap is crap any way you look at it, sniff it, touch it, taste it... zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Maggeridon Thoraz
Reconfiguration Nation Transmission Lost
32
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Posted - 2012.12.08 07:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:Grath Telkin wrote:Amarr drones are actually useful How? Is there a non-PvE situation in which, instead of Warrior II's, you'd use the slower, lower damage, higher sig, worse tracking, but marginally tankier Acolyte II's? EV drones don't count (and their use is marginal at best). Sure, say you're out hunting ratters in the North, they're not tanked for EM at all, they tank Kinetic and Thermal, so using EM works better. There are other situations where you'd want them, most involve neutralizing shield ships until their hardeners go off.
ratting is non-pve ? ah ok, you are baiting, lol |
Trillian Torres
Infinite Potential
1
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Posted - 2012.12.09 15:29:00 -
[28] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:Zagdul wrote:Grath, you must be trolling. There's no situation that a Valkrye or Warrior wouldn't put an Amarr drone to shame. I don't know very many people who focus on explosive damage as their primary tank. Not to mention how many hulls are weak to it.
Whats the most common ratter ship type up north? When its invulns are off whats it weakest to damage wise? You're focusing on a region and not a damage system. And what player with at least half a brain would go into a combat situation without hardeners on? |
Pretty GuyYeah
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.12.09 15:37:00 -
[29] - Quote
I agree with OP, CCP, please look to it. |
TheBreadMuncher
Boxxed Up Industries EPIC Alliance
414
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Posted - 2012.12.09 16:22:00 -
[30] - Quote
Zagdul wrote: I don't know very many people who focus on explosive damage as their primary tank. .
Every non-amarr-t2 armour tanker...? "We will create the introduction thread if that is requested by the community. Also, we will have an ISD Seminar about the CCL team in the coming weeks in which you can ask your questions about the CCL team and provide some constructive feedback to us." - Countless pages of locked threads and numerous permabanned accounts later, change is coming. |
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