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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
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ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1170
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Posted - 2012.12.08 02:38:00 -
[61] - Quote
- ISD Suvetar Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Caliph Muhammed
Carebear Clown Posse
314
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Posted - 2012.12.08 15:03:00 -
[62] - Quote
Strenuously? I think before I pat you on the back for working so hard at zealously over-applying the no trolling off topic rule to hide customer dissatisfaction i'll invite you to my corporation instead.
Theres precisely three pages in this thread and you modified slightly the opening post and deleted maybe two posts outright.
I think you added the word strenuous to cover for prematurely locking a thread that didn't deserve it to begin with. |
Murk Paradox
Dvice Shipyards No Value
64
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Posted - 2012.12.08 15:49:00 -
[63] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Theres no guarentee a killright purchased can be claimed. Not through any mechanic the purchaser has to do with. (IE pvp skill)
It requires an activation to use which immediately notifies the target of who activated it. The activation lasts for 15 minutes. On top of the amateur local intel chat you now have a second form of free intel in a system advertised to bring new life to pvp. The double fail safe of local chat and the notification means almost all of the potential fights that could happen won't. The act of Retribution will be one of so rare occurence as to be almost non existent. Ill back up my claim. Someone drop a few billion bounty on me. You'll never ever get one killmail that was directly linked to someone exacting your revenge. You may eventually reward someone who happened to kill me in a fleet battle. But thats hardly Retribution now is it?
when someone activates a kill right on you the suspect timer starts ticking and there's a subtle notify saying "Kill right activated on you. You can temporarily be attacked without CONCORD intervention." only to explain why you're now a suspect it doesn't tell you who activated it, so I'm not sure where you're going with this. people just have to make sure not to activate a kill right on someone where and when they can quickly dock or escape
Unless you're in Dodixie when that happens and even 5km off dock you get mauled by 10 people in a slicer. Yes this is kind of tears worthy (I'm not really mad, just griping) but it's still flawed. The actual control of kill right assignments makes it to where you don't want to go to lowsec or acquire kill rights against you unless you do it fulltime. Which I personally think becomes a bigger pain than fun.
In a game of player created emergent gameplay and markets ran by players, it becomes I think a larger obstacle and forces more people to avoid main trade hubs and enforces a mentality of having to double check and rethink which places you go to.
I figured we wanted MORE pvp, not less. (KR ganking is not pvp).
I don't mind the selling or making it available to public, that part I actually do like a lot. I don't like the activation part though. Too hindering in my book. I think a KR timer should be activated on purchase and be on for a longer amount of time than GCC/Aggression timers (few hours maybe) as a fitting punishment (if you choose to dock it out), or escalate it to a reverse kill right bounty or make the bounty buyout-able by the guy the KR is on. IE; give me the option of buying out the paid KR transaction at a 3x cost or something. "I say tomato, you say tomaCCP BAN ALL TOMATOES THEY ARE HARASSING ME I WANT TOMATO FREE HIGHSEC."-á -TheGunslinger42 Proud enforcer of the Code, see [url]http://www.minerbumping.com[/url] for details. |
Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
836
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Posted - 2012.12.08 15:58:00 -
[64] - Quote
Please continue to tell us how impossible it is to catch people with killrights.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18197021 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18181692 http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18200286#mail "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Caliph Muhammed
Carebear Clown Posse
314
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Posted - 2012.12.08 16:00:00 -
[65] - Quote
You aren't targeting a specific individual, your activating killrights on those who just so happen... theres a difference. See if you can figure out why its important. |
Mirima Thurander
Estrada Dynamics - Exploration and Acquisition
445
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Posted - 2012.12.08 16:04:00 -
[66] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:In null sec you get a warning when someone else enters local. In high sec you get a warning when someone activates kill rights on you. What is the issue here? Remove them both. There both safety nets to the stupid. A Dark time comes. A time of terror comes. My time. If it offends you. Stop me. |
Azrael Dinn
The 20th Legion Mildly Sober
18
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Posted - 2012.12.08 16:06:00 -
[67] - Quote
I just had an anoying idea. It concerns abit this killright thing.
How long does it take into effect that if someone places a bounty on me and then can start shooting at me? |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
741
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Posted - 2012.12.08 17:49:00 -
[68] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Good luck finding anyone with a killright redeemable in the only place it matters, high sec...
Er, the only place you would need one in order to shoot at someone is high sec. What do kill rights mean in low/nullsec? That makes your point sort of self-defeating. |
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CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3996
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Posted - 2012.12.08 18:02:00 -
[69] - Quote
Azrael Dinn wrote:I just had an anoying idea. It concerns abit this killright thing.
How long does it take into effect that if someone places a bounty on me and then can start shooting at me?
bounties alone don't mean anyone can shoot you Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
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YoYo NickyYo
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
64
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Posted - 2012.12.08 18:20:00 -
[70] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:You missed his point the systems fine besides the one part that warns your target before you even open fire.
You aren't capable of starting your target lock and activating the killright at the same time? hmmm....
"Working as intended" |
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Arduemont
Rotten Legion Ops
836
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Posted - 2012.12.08 18:36:00 -
[71] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:You aren't targeting a specific individual, your activating killrights on those who just so happen... there's a difference. See if you can figure out why its important.
They're still someone's "specific individual". Just because they're not the person you want dead, doesn't mean the system doesn't work. The new KR system doesn't guarantee a kill. Why should it? It's significantly more useful than the old system, that's for damn sure. "In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
608
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Posted - 2012.12.08 18:52:00 -
[72] - Quote
I took the OP as being a poorly worded way of saying that bounties on people living in high sec are rarely ever going to make suicide ganking them worthwhile.
I dont' think that guy in a merlin is going to get ganked regardless of how much his bounty is, and that you're going to end up having to rely on people suicide ganking for a bounty to be worth collecting, which is also the same situation you'll be primarilly relying upon for killrights as well in high sec.
If you want to hunt bounties, you're probably going to need to go to low or null, or be able to wardec a high sec corp -which I expect to end up being the primary way people collect bounties-.
I think the bounty system's biggest flaw is that it will drive more people back into the NPC corps where they wont have to worry about bounties. I hope I"m wrong, I don't think I will be though. I do think that the driving force behind people staying in high sec is to minimize risk, and being in the NPC corps just increased that level safety by a lot due to the bounty system.
It'll end with the same results as inferno had on mining. People taking advantage of whatever provides the greatest possible safety. It's human nature. |
Julius Priscus
26
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Posted - 2012.12.08 19:00:00 -
[73] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Yesterday some friends saw a freighter undock from Jita with a buyable kill right. Neither the freighter or the kill right still exist.
Oops. Fraps or it didn't happen. That being said though, how often is that going to occur? 99% of the time its going to be a game of chase the guy with the killright in his frigate until he's killed and the killmail no longer exists. Because with a 15 minute window of opportunity the chance of any real preparation and catching of people off guard and in something worthwhile Retributing against isn't going to happen. Im sure the most inane of the platerbase will fall but you won't catch any real target thats knows the game with this system. do all the prepping before you activate and then you have 15 minutes to do the killing
that 15 minutes extends once engaged. |
Caliph Muhammed
Carebear Clown Posse
315
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Posted - 2012.12.08 19:52:00 -
[74] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:I took the OP as being a poorly worded way of saying that bounties on people living in high sec are rarely ever going to make suicide ganking them worthwhile.
I dont' think that guy in a merlin is going to get ganked regardless of how much his bounty is, and that you're going to end up having to rely on people suicide ganking for a bounty to be worth collecting, which is also the same situation you'll be primarilly relying upon for killrights as well in high sec.
If you want to hunt bounties, you're probably going to need to go to low or null, or be able to wardec a high sec corp -which I expect to end up being the primary way people collect bounties-.
I think the bounty system's biggest flaw is that it will drive more people back into the NPC corps where they wont have to worry about bounties. I hope I"m wrong, I don't think I will be though. I do think that the driving force behind people staying in high sec is to minimize risk, and being in the NPC corps just increased that level safety by a lot due to the bounty system.
It'll end with the same results as inferno had on mining. People taking advantage of whatever provides the greatest possible safety. It's human nature.
Bounties are fine, killright ganking passing itself off as a bounty hunting profession is the problem. |
Pyre leFay
The Scope Gallente Federation
90
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Posted - 2012.12.08 21:56:00 -
[75] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote: the new concept of killright ganking as bounty hunting in its current implementation and CCPs refusal to add any real risk to Hisec, even for those who have committed an act to generate a killright.
That would be the sellers fault. Apart from easily deduced scams. If it is public and a nominal price, it wont taking long for the "criminal" to either pay off his own killright, or gets killed in a cheep ship getting some extra fights from hunters going after killrights passing by. Mild annoyance or amusement against the perpetrator.
Or you can make the killright private and free to a real bounty hunter, And pay a hunter to do optimal damage at just the right time when applicable. Give 500m to a third party and agree to a payout of value and a half of the kill value. It'll make the real hunter do some foot work for a decent payoff.
Selling a kill to just anyone is the lazy hope you get something out of it. Like selling or buying on market in simple mode and relying on the average of the region without any real input. If you actually put effort into revenge the tools are there. |
Angeal MacNova
9th Fleet-Seraphins
46
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Posted - 2012.12.09 00:09:00 -
[76] - Quote
Arduemont wrote:Caliph Muhammed wrote:You aren't targeting a specific individual, your activating killrights on those who just so happen... there's a difference. See if you can figure out why its important. They're still someone's "specific individual". Just because they're not the person you want dead, doesn't mean the system doesn't work. The new KR system doesn't guarantee a kill. Why should it? It's significantly more useful than the old system, that's for damn sure.
It never did, nor would it ever, guarantee a kill. If you can't beat them, you don't get the kill. The point is that the kill right system is too opportunistic when it shouldn't be. |
Imrik86
Underdog Corp
33
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Posted - 2012.12.09 19:39:00 -
[77] - Quote
CCP introduces way too many complicated rules and mechanisms with every new feature.
Take for instance kill rights. It's a simple idea: payback. Then, CCP manages to introduce two different mechanics just for this. Why?
CCP has to understand that a game with fewer rules is both easier to understand, more rewarding to play and has less flaws to exploit. Haven't they learned anything with the FW fiasco? |
Mirima Thurander
Estrada Dynamics - Exploration and Acquisition
448
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Posted - 2012.12.11 00:32:00 -
[78] - Quote
I for one dislike the fact they get a warning the most warning they should get is my rounds impacting there shields. A Dark time comes. A time of terror comes. My time. If it offends you. Stop me. |
Caliph Muhammed
Carebear Clown Posse
322
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Posted - 2012.12.12 22:26:00 -
[79] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Renier Gaden wrote:Activate the kill right while you are locking them and before you point them. Passive targeters with an alpha strike fleet anyone? You got a good chance of catching people who are trying to scam killrights that way. Its almost like setting up a gank fleet: Kill the target fast before the opportunity goes away. Except you will not be losing a ship to CONCORD.
Yeah because you know if im scamming killrights and baiting in space im not going to notice that alpha strike fleet sitting near me. Parrot more null talk you've heard.
Would you like to join my corporation? |
Officer Szun
Center Haus Apocalypse Now.
0
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Posted - 2012.12.13 09:02:00 -
[80] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:No one bothered to fraps it. I did see the KM, so I believe it did happen. The 4 ships that killed the freighter could not have done it if it was a suicide gank (insufficient dps to drop a freighter at Jita before CONCORD calls), so the freighter must have been a valid target.
One oddity: The freighter dropped a battleship, tritanium and pyerite. Before it could be recovered a Jita vulture salvaged the wreck. The cans that were left were yellow, and could not be recovered without the freighter doing the recovery becoming a suspect. Is this the intent? I thought what was dropped by a suspect was free for all. Note that the wreck was not yellow, it was the can left after the salvage that was yellow. Edit: There is no way to hide the fact that I have a purchasable killright on me from me. It shows on the overview, as it must so other players can know about it giving them the opportunity to activate it. If I have any doubt, all I need to is ask a friend if I show up on the overview as having a purchasable killright.
So Caliph, how do you propose this information be hidden from the target so there is absolutely no way for him to know about it? Make the transfer of killrights completely discrete between two parties. The victim and their hired Retribution. No warnings to the original aggressor, no notifications. Nothing. The killright expires on the date it would normally expire, basically as normal but the killmail is transfered from one persons record to the hired gun/corp. The original aggressor maintains the same level of knowledge they had before which is that they've killed an innocent and could face retaliation. They'd just lack the knowledge of how or when that will come. They would have the original date of course to know when they are in the clear. As such the original aggressor could more safely fly knowing the entire EVE universe can't activate their public killright on a whim. Which would result in increased likelyhood of the aggressor flying something worth killing while at the same time giving more ability for the bounty hunters to carefully plan and execute the Retribution. Maybe make killrights like corporate shares, a physical object in which only one can exist per incident. It can be sold to the individual or the corporation alliance and is good until its expired or redeemed. Agreed. This is the way it should work...and hopefully ccp will change things to make it so. However, the way it currently works will still affect the hi-sec types and null sec types that don't use an alt to transport their ill gotten gains to jita. I foresee a lot of transport deaths in and around jita. Carebear revenge is twice as sweet for being delayed for so long. |
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Caliph Muhammed
Carebear Clown Posse
323
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Posted - 2012.12.13 11:41:00 -
[81] - Quote
Caliph Muhammed wrote:Edit: Snipped discussion of moderation.
If you want to discuss moderation then raise a petition using the Other Issues -> Community or Forum category.
ISD Suvetar
I win. You resorted to Dev hacks. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
804
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Posted - 2012.12.13 12:21:00 -
[82] - Quote
Nova Fox wrote:People for Years have whined for sell-able kill rights.
Now they have it.
It's just sad it was introduced combined with Failwatch. AFK-cloaking in a system near you. |
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ISD TYPE40
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3303
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Posted - 2012.12.13 12:23:00 -
[83] - Quote
Forum Rules wrote:
29. Personal attacks and abuse of CCP staff.
There has been a worrying trend of increased personal attacks on developers on our own forums as of late, this will not be tolerated. Our forums are an area for players to exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who abuse staff will receive a permanent forum ban across all of their accounts which will not be subject to review at any time.
Thread is locked - ISD Type40. ISD Type40 Lt. Commander Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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