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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Serptimis
Reds in Local
76
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
Make it 100% of the ship value, remove ship insurance. Anyone with a bounty cannot insure their ship. Yes, this means all bounties placed prevents a person insuring their ship, but hey, this is EVE right |
Alara IonStorm
3747
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:34:00 -
[32] - Quote
Serptimis wrote:Make it 100% of the ship value, remove ship insurance. Anyone with a bounty cannot insure their ship. Yes, this means all bounties placed prevents a person insuring their ship, but hey, this is EVE right I would rather not see every single persons Insurance being voided by someone placing minimum bounties on every person in local. That and losing the ability to place insurance because another mechanic.
Instead I would prefer the entire Insurance mechanic be weeded out in its entirety quick and clean like pulling a band-aid off.
|
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
783
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Stitcher wrote:So, lowsec and nullsec don't factor into your reasoning then?
We're talking about a PvP mechanic here, of course it's going to be less useful in highsec! No, they don't. My point is focues around high sec, the bounty system, and the recent news about the effects of the mining buff. Guys in low and null don't care about pvp; It's pretty safe to assume that's pvp is one of the reasons we're here, why would we care about having a bounty? Someone already wants to blow me up, they aren't waiting for me to have a bounty first. It's pretty irrelevant for me to worry if I have a bounty.
I like other people having a bounty, it makes a nice tasty treat after I blow up their ship. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
578
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Stitcher wrote:So, lowsec and nullsec don't factor into your reasoning then?
We're talking about a PvP mechanic here, of course it's going to be less useful in highsec! No, they don't. My point is focues around high sec, the bounty system, and the recent news about the effects of the mining buff. Guys in low and null don't care about pvp; It's pretty safe to assume that's pvp is one of the reasons we're here, why would we care about having a bounty? Someone already wants to blow me up, they aren't waiting for me to have a bounty first. It's pretty irrelevant for me to worry if I have a bounty. I like other people having a bounty, it makes a nice tasty treat after I blow up their ship. Pretty much right?
And effectively why low and null have zero consideration in my little rant. I mean, blue squares in my overview stress me out a little. I expect everyone to shoot me, nothings changing. |
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
91
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
I am pleased to know that the guys I marked will be hunted for a very, very long time
"It's not about the money. It's about sending a message" |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
201
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
You're looking at the bounty system as a way to make money. That's where you're wrong.
The bounty system exists so people can get revenge. With the old system, this was impossible because you could simply kill your own alt in a rookie ship to remove the bounty. Now, with the payout system only paying part of the bounty, and only paying based on the value of the loss, the person is going to get blown up multiple times.
Someone has a legitimate bounty, they're taking an even bigger risk every time they undock, especially when out of empire. It doesn't just become a cruise through low sec like you do every day, it becomes that other guy happened to see your bounty and is calling in all his friends. Whatever activities you like to do are constantly being disrupted, because the bounty is so big people just keep killing you. You try to fly cheaper ships to make the payouts less worth it, but that just makes the bounty last longer.
The payout system is just a formalized way of paying someone to take your revenge for you. It's an open contract with everyone in EVE, rather than taking out a specific hit with Noir. or GHSC or whoever. Nobody is going to do it for profit, just like people doing all the other silly little activities in the game to screw over others don't make a profit on it. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
580
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 18:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:You're looking at the bounty system as a way to make money. That's where you're wrong.
The bounty system exists so people can get revenge. With the old system, this was impossible because you could simply kill your own alt in a rookie ship to remove the bounty. Now, with the payout system only paying part of the bounty, and only paying based on the value of the loss, the person is going to get blown up multiple times.
Someone has a legitimate bounty, they're taking an even bigger risk every time they undock, especially when out of empire. It doesn't just become a cruise through low sec like you do every day, it becomes that other guy happened to see your bounty and is calling in all his friends. Whatever activities you like to do are constantly being disrupted, because the bounty is so big people just keep killing you. You try to fly cheaper ships to make the payouts less worth it, but that just makes the bounty last longer.
The payout system is just a formalized way of paying someone to take your revenge for you. It's an open contract with everyone in EVE, rather than taking out a specific hit with Noir. or GHSC or whoever. Nobody is going to do it for profit, just like people doing all the other silly little activities in the game to screw over others don't make a profit on it. I think we probably mostly disagree with the impact that a bounty is going to have on someone in Empire, I don't think that it's going to have much of one at all once the novelty of it has worn off.
Corp bounties, yes. Personal bounties, no.
It's going to depend on there being enough people flying around with a killright available on them, and I don't think therre's going to be that many.
I'm also not saying I"m right and others are wrong, only that I think it would be a better system if it was possible for multi-BILLION ISK bounties could make a person profitable to kill.
It would give us a means of pushing bakc the amount of afk and bot mining that is now happening as a result of the mining buff. A couple billion isn't an inconsequential amount of mone; not something you're going to see lots of random people have on them.
After reading the dev blog about the effects of the mining barge and exhumer changes, I'm an even stronger believer that the PLAYERS, all players, need a way to effectively fight back against afk and mining bots. Suicide ganking is obviously not cutting it, and the payout system isn't going to have much impact either.
The bounty sytem could have been the tool to keep in check what exactly what everyone kept saying would happen. To much safety in high sec has an impact on other areas of the game. CCP just released stats that prove it. |
Ana Fox
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 18:26:00 -
[38] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:You're looking at the bounty system as a way to make money. That's where you're wrong.
I think you are wrong.Bounty hunter dont care about your revenge he cares how much your revenge is lucrative for him.Someone will do that for glory but after some time when he loose xy ships he will start to look how to make that more profitable for him.
OP I personally dont like this system cause of trolling usage of this system.But ok my opinion is my only and that dont reflect is this system good or bad.My hope was that this system will bring us one more way of playing,more like new role in EVE,for now is just grief fest and toll cannon .
Maybe if they rise bounty shield on something that is more serious like 20 mil or so it can kick start new role for someone ,this way by spam of wanted so we have more ppl with that is just crap.Some people have so much isk that they can place bounty on every single person in EVE ,that is stupid to I must admit.CCP seems to like that cause omg people are using our new toy we are great ,but is that true?
I am not butthurt cause of this but it would be nice to have real bounty hunters in EVE. |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
560
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 18:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote: I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.
Your speculating just like everyone else, but obviously you forgot how your playerbase works, the guy you replied to has a valid point Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
287
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 18:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:
I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.
Just curious, but what exactly do you see as a point in a system where some idiot with more isk than sense drops bounties on anyone talking in the Help Chat? If you think that's "kewl" in the CCP design meetings, you guys really need to hire some adults to supervise the playground. This "new and improved" system is starting to unravel just like your T3 BC plan did. Fly Minmatar Air --- "Trust in the Rust!" |
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Bohoba
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 18:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
so a 20 bill bounty
hi sec gank his suttle u get what 2K and you lose a ship hummm
if in a rohk you get a few mill
and you lose sec status
system is not working as I see it needs to be better payout for it to be worth it thats for sure
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Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
312
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 19:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
Since the bounty is "permanent", meaning it can't be taken back even if it was your own alt who set up the bounty, then all we need is an expiration date.
If you are willing to place 50 bil on your Jita alt and forever lose that money unless you actually lose it anyways by blowing yourself up, then so be it. If the bounty is not collected, it expires and we have an awesome ISK sink.
The problem you described would essentially get corrected over time. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
790
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 19:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
Bohoba wrote:so a 20 bill bounty
hi sec gank his suttle u get what 2K and you lose a ship hummm
if in a rohk you get a few mill
and you lose sec status
system is not working as I see it needs to be better payout for it to be worth it thats for sure
You're proposing the old system, where people would get large bounties and then blow themselves up with an alt or with a friend. Paying more than the ship is worth is a losing proposition through nothing other than basic math. |
Bloodpetal
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal The Mockers AO
1064
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 21:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
The answer to this is clearly that you need to be able to hire dust mercs to infiltrate a station and collect the bounty.... Where I am. |
Primary Her
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Putting bounties on competing jump freighter pilots is in fact pretty awesome. |
Diamond Bull
State War Academy Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
Eh? The bounty system has had no effect on me as far as I am concerned. It is a silly thing not worthy of my attention in game. However, I think the payouts are a bit ridiculous. I mean... Why would anyone in their right mind gank someone for less than they can get for killing one rat? Even then you'd have to start subtracting the cost of the ship they used if it was a suicide gank. The only people who I see benefiting this are the people who would have ganked anyway. |
Karig'Ano Keikira
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:10:00 -
[47] - Quote
Troll or not, I wonder... anyway, EVE mechanics prevent bounty of > 20% making sense, simply due to fact that you can suicide your fully insured ship with no modules by an alt - if bounty is > 20%, it becomes profitable and there is no way around that, therefore 20% cap to payouts ofc, if insurance is removed things might become interesting, but I guess it won't happen off the topic - why the insurance mechanic anyway? |
The CandyGirl
Candy's Toy Shop
8
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:32:00 -
[48] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Serptimis wrote:Make it 100% of the ship value, remove ship insurance. Anyone with a bounty cannot insure their ship. Yes, this means all bounties placed prevents a person insuring their ship, but hey, this is EVE right I would rather not see every single persons Insurance being voided by someone placing minimum bounties on every person in local. That and losing the ability to place insurance because another mechanic. Instead I would prefer the entire Insurance mechanic be weeded out in its entirety quick and clean like pulling a band-aid off.
Just curious but did they fix the insurance payout for t2 and t3? seeing as that is almost only what i fly i haven't. Even opened the insurance window since the first time i saw how little the payout was for the actual value of the ship.
And if then havnet than you can assume that anyone flying a t2 or t3 probaly wont bother with the insurance.
Of course i am remembering when i would get a hac for 120ish mil with a max insurance payout of like 15-20mil |
Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
217
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:
I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.
Just curious, but what exactly do you see as a point in a system where some idiot with more isk than sense drops bounties on anyone talking in the Help Chat? If you think that's "kewl" in the CCP design meetings, you guys really need to hire some adults to supervise the playground. This "new and improved" system is starting to unravel just like your T3 BC plan did.
say the dude with his alt..... |
Ritsum
Perkone Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:42:00 -
[50] - Quote
Large bounty's are not pointless, sure you only get a small sum of it each time you kill them but that just means you have the chance to stalk your prey constantly and get cash for each kill making for prolonged bounty hunting.
One would think a hunter would prefer hunting the same target instead of having to dig up information on a new target after each kill. People are subject to repetition meaning you can find out the best times to gank someone after a bit of observation. So with this new system a hunter can find 2-3 targets that seem to always have bounty's and find their weaknesses and begin a long hunt essentially giving the hunter a passive income. I am a proud High Sec Pve player. Got a problem? |
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Alara IonStorm
3752
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:49:00 -
[51] - Quote
The CandyGirl wrote: Just curious but did they fix the insurance payout for t2 and t3? seeing as that is almost only what i fly i haven't. Even opened the insurance window since the first time i saw how little the payout was for the actual value of the ship.
And if then havnet than you can assume that anyone flying a t2 or t3 probaly wont bother with the insurance.
Of course i am remembering when i would get a hac for 120ish mil with a max insurance payout of like 15-20mil
Nope they still have pathetically low insurance. I hope they fix it soon so the insurance cost will be 0 and the payout 0 for all ships T1 T2 T3 and Faction Ships.
Pathetically low is too much money given free for a loss. |
Angeal MacNova
9th Fleet-Seraphins
44
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
As much as it would be nice to collect on the entire bounty, something had to be done. The old system simply didn't work. You use an alt or trusted fellow player to kill you and collect on it yourself. What else could they have done?
I think that the changes made for an adequate solution to the previous problem.
As for insurance, I think insurance needs to be next to change. I have an idea for it so gonna go post it in the suggestions section. |
Solutio Letum
Lost Dawn Chaos Stealth Syndicate
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 23:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
no just pull a 5 billion bounty on that ratting nyx pilot you know, that just sometimes once you where there camped a gate or supported a hotdrop, or 30 billions on that titan, now you got some really big corp running and spying on them all the time, or get a big bounty on that stupid carebear that kills rookies for a living canfliping them infront of stations, hes gonna be worth a couple millions sometime and hes gonna get baited sometime exactly like he does all the tim
this new bounty system is not about who is top 10, but every single guy who is under it |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
25
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 23:15:00 -
[54] - Quote
Soooo.... Bounties aren't profitable in high sec? Lets take the much loved retriever. Gankable by a single destroyer according to people. Value of a retriever, maybe 30 mil once modules and some ore in the cargo hold are taken into account. You get maybe 2-3 million in loot drops off it. You get a 6 million bounty off it. This means to make a profit, all you need is a single destroyer to cost you under 8 million.
Similar hunting mission ships. Scan them down, catch them mid mission with their tank already depleted, point them and add that little bit of extra DPS, and watch their tank collapse. Collect 15 Million bounty on that BC you just collapsed the tank of alongside the rats.
And this is without looking at the pimp mission fit pirate battleships with officer fits that are worth billions flying around high sec.
Are 'some' fits like a heavily tanked drake going to be unprofitable to gank when just flying between gates & no kill rights on them in high sec. Sure. Is this a problem? I sure don't think so. |
Merouk Baas
59
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 23:28:00 -
[55] - Quote
IMO, the impact of the bounty revolves around losing your high-sec protections, if you had any. Specifically, if you have a high bounty on you, you'll want to avoid doing anything that disables Concord.
Namely:
- Join a player corp and your corpies may try to fleet you up and blow you up for kicks (and now ISKs).
- Join a player corp and they may get wardecced, for the chance to shoot you during the war. I.E. the wardec is because of you. Don't know who's gonna recruit high-bounty players anymore.
- The top 10 list is publishing your name, in a game where anonymity is preferred. Everyone's running locator agents all the time, stalking, harrassing, etc. Ask Chribba about the unwanted attention he's getting, or that Somer Blink woman they blogged about, or anybody popular.
- Generating killrights via sucide ganking can be problematic for the ganker, as he can now get interrupted by annoying people activating killrights left and right. Activities that used to be fun are now annoying.
- Passage through low sec is now more problematic, as your bounty will attract the locals more than passers-through did in the past.
Veterans see the bounty as a chance to PVP, even profit. Unfortunately, I believe that a lot of the newbies, and quite a few of the carebears will see it as something that's not under their control but makes their character completely useless and unable to undock, be recruited, do anything in the game. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3960
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 23:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote: The guys at the top of the list dont' care.
krixtal, one of the most bountied people in eve, has already declared he is quitting in a huff |
Merouk Baas
59
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 23:41:00 -
[57] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Similar hunting mission ships. Scan them down, catch them mid mission with their tank already depleted, point them and add that little bit of extra DPS, and watch their tank collapse. Collect 15 Million bounty on that BC you just collapsed the tank of alongside the rats.
Lol, do try that.
1. In high sec, Concord.
2. New mission rat AI means they all switch to you because:
a. You've just entered the pocket. b. You're in a smaller ship. c. You're using ewar (to tackle).
If the frigate rats don't point you, the mission ship is free to defend himself and all he has to do is point you back. The rats will likely stay on you, even with his use of ewar.
EDIT: Also, the same rat AI when YOU decide to grind back your -10 so you can re-enter highsec. |
Holy One
Aliastra Gallente Federation
315
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 23:44:00 -
[58] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote: I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.
How do you hunt someone's scrubby alt that never undocks? THIS CHAR FOR SALE:-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2274095#post2274095 |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2216
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 23:48:00 -
[59] - Quote
CFC tears nonshocker. Delicious!
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
590
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 15:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:As much as it would be nice to collect on the entire bounty, something had to be done. The old system simply didn't work. You use an alt or trusted fellow player to kill you and collect on it yourself. What else could they have done?
I think that the changes made for an adequate solution to the previous problem.
As for insurance, I think insurance needs to be next to change. I have an idea for it so gonna go post it in the suggestions section. Paying out the entire bounty was a bad idea, and still is. I don't advocate that. And you are correct, the 20% payout is an addiquate solution to people blowing themselves up to collect the bounty.
Gettng 25%, 30%, 35%, etc. based on the amount of the bounty would make having large bounties really mean something.
Nevyn Auscent wrote: Soooo.... Bounties aren't profitable in high sec? Lets take the much loved retriever. Gankable by a single destroyer according to people. Value of a retriever, maybe 30 mil once modules and some ore in the cargo hold are taken into account. You get maybe 2-3 million in loot drops off it. You get a 6 million bounty off it. This means to make a profit, all you need is a single destroyer to cost you under 8 million.
Similar hunting mission ships. Scan them down, catch them mid mission with their tank already depleted, point them and add that little bit of extra DPS, and watch their tank collapse. Collect 15 Million bounty on that BC you just collapsed the tank of alongside the rats.
And this is without looking at the pimp mission fit pirate battleships with officer fits that are worth billions flying around high sec.
Are 'some' fits like a heavily tanked drake going to be unprofitable to gank when just flying between gates & no kill rights on them in high sec. Sure. Is this a problem? I sure don't think so.
That's not really an example of profiting from the bounty sytem. You're relying on the potential drops, and the more that drops the less you get from the bounty pool.
CCP was really smart about how they implemented the payout.
Merouk Baas wrote: IMO, the impact of the bounty revolves around losing your high-sec protections, if you had any. Specifically, if you have a high bounty on you, you'll want to avoid doing anything that disables Concord.
Namely:
- Join a player corp and your corpies may try to fleet you up and blow you up for kicks (and now ISKs).
- Join a player corp and they may get wardecced, for the chance to shoot you during the war. I.E. the wardec is because of you. Don't know who's gonna recruit high-bounty players anymore.
- The top 10 list is publishing your name, in a game where anonymity is preferred. Everyone's running locator agents all the time, stalking, harrassing, etc. Ask Chribba about the unwanted attention he's getting, or that Somer Blink woman they blogged about, or anybody popular.
- Generating killrights via sucide ganking can be problematic for the ganker, as he can now get interrupted by annoying people activating killrights left and right. Activities that used to be fun are now annoying.
- Passage through low sec is now more problematic, as your bounty will attract the locals more than passers-through did in the past.
Veterans see the bounty as a chance to PVP, even profit. Unfortunately, I believe that a lot of the newbies, and quite a few of the carebears will see it as something that's not under their control but makes their character completely useless and unable to undock, be recruited, do anything in the game.
I don't thinkk most of this is relevant to the bounty system.
1) That's a silly reason to not join a player corp, and you can always start your own if you're silly enough to let this prevent you from expanding you possible gameplay in EVE.
2) Individual bounties aren't going to have an impact on corp activety. A corp bounty is going to attrack a wardeck.
5) Passage through lowsec on monday morning was no easier then it is today. If your corp doesn't control the gate, you're probably getting shot. Bounties are just an added bonus. Maybe they'll encourage more people to go to these areas of space, and I do hope it does, but that effect won't really be known or accurately measured for some time. We need a few months to see how things settle.
Anyone that leaves EVE because of a mechanic that they don't have complete control over, shouldn't be playing EVE. That's not how EVE works, it's never worked that way, and it's never intended to work that way. It's the point of a sandbox; one that is lost on many.
The results of the barge and ehuamer rebalance show that even your saftey in high sec has an impact on the larger game. CCP admits that buffing them had a impact on the number of people AFK and Bot mining in high sec, and they showed how it's impacting the game as a whole.
The mining buff, and removal of profitable miner ganks, made an already large gap in the profitability of industry between null and high sec even larger. Mining in high sec, and not getting blown up has a real effect on the game.
At the same time they made it easier and safer to mine in high sec, they made it harder and less attractive to blow up a miner. CCP didn't want one ship singled out for destructin because you could almost always make a profit off of it, I agree. However, all ships isn't the same as a single ship, and if it costs many other people lots of ISK to make a single ship profitable, that wouldn't be bad.
A billion 5 isk bounty on a single person in order for someone to be able to gank them, with the right amount of value being flown, and make small profit, would be good for us. Us, as in the whole of EVE's playerbase. A mulit-billion ISK bounty would take work, coordination, and a large investment from the wider community to maintane. |
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