Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
577
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 16:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
While everyone's crying about the wanted sign, I just wanted to point out that the guy with 18b on his head is no more worth shooting than the guy with 500m.
Because, from what I understand, you only get 20% of the value of what is destroyed; bounty amount doesn't impact anything other than the number of times you can blow someone up relative to the cost of the what's being destroyed. 100k or 1b, doesn't real mean much.
Once that top 10 spot stops moving, and things settle down, I expect that the most wanted list is going to end up like the old one. Bragging rights.
I am of the belief that this will happen, primarilly because the bounty total doesn't impact the payout in any way; eventually people are going to realise that the most wanted guys aren't worth hunting down. The guy with a few million bounty on him is worth just as much to a bounty hunter as the guys in the top 10 slots.
However, I do understand that the primary reason the top 10 won't matter is because it'll be comprised of people who don't undock, have a large sum of ISK, and put the bounty on themselves. No one ever involved in regular pvp is going to sit at the top of the list, they'll likely be constantly clearing bounties on themselves by doing what they already do.
People keep complaining about "wanted" not meaning anything, and they're the same people that are the reason the bounty system is the way it is. Large bounties would be common and "wanted" would really mean something if your bounty actually modified what a bounty hunter got for blowing you up.
In order to keep you guys from becoming profitable to destroy in high sec the bounty sytem can't payout over the value of your ship, hence only 20% of your value from a pool.
If you guys want meaningful, then let CCP do meaningful. You can't get your cake and eat too. As long as you guys are unwilling to assume some small level of risk in high sec, then tools like the bounty system will always have little meaning there.
If you guys would have been willing to assume that little bit of risk, then the bounty system could have included a modifier that raised the payout on a wanted individual. Sinking a crap ton of money into an individual could have made them profitable as long as the pool exceeded a high enough value.
Not to mention the value in being able to remove AFK miners and bots from the game. In case you missed it: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=74033
Quote:The mining ship changes have led to a very large increase in mined volume. The new versions of the ships clearly provide useful mining alternatives to pilots willing to trade off some mining output for a reduced risk of suicide ganks or less workload shoveling ore to a jet can. Of course, the last part means greater opportunities for AFK-mining. That, in turn, probably explains why the Retriever has become the most commonly used mining ship, and also why the increase in mining activity is focused on high-security space.
Who knew buffing the barges would lead to more AFK and bot mining in high sec.
The bounty system could have been an excellent tool. If only... |
Gangname Style
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
41
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 16:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
okay. |
Gotch Urarse
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 16:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
I have little combat PvP xp (unless you count refitting and clone updating), so take what I have w/ a grain of salt.
Just a thought, maybe 20% is to low? If it was higher, closer to 50% value, would that change application? How did CCP come up with 20%? If this was covered in prior threads, I must have missed it. |
Bloodpetal
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal The Mockers AO
1064
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 16:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well, the difference is when you put that bounty on yourself, it's not recoverable like it used to be.
So, if you want to pay 50b to be on the top of a list - I guess you can have the money to do that.
I'm sure CCP will come up with a solution for this as it comes, because they do want the best targets on the top. Just give it time and recommendations to improve the system.
Where I am. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
577
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 16:43:00 -
[5] - Quote
Gotch Urarse wrote:I have little combat PvP xp (unless you count refitting and clone updating), so take what I have w/ a grain of salt.
Just a thought, maybe 20% is to low? If it was higher, closer to 50% value, would that change application? How did CCP come up with 20%? If this was covered in prior threads, I must have missed it.
How about if the higher your bounty got the further up it pushed the payout percentage.
I gues my point kind of boiled down to "it doesn't matter". People are arguing over the value of being "wanted" and seem to think that it has anything to do with the minimum amount. One billion is no more meaningful a bounty as 100k in high sec.
The only reason for it to be this way is so that you can't profit from it in high sec.
The only reason to not allow us to profit from it in high sec is the players.
And we know which players they are.
I just think people should know who's at fault while they complain to CCP about the meaningfulness of the bounty system, and being wanted. |
Othran
Route One
262
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 16:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Large personal bounties are mainly useless.
Corp bounties however are a different matter - just like wardecs its only a matter of time until someone forgets and undocks something shiny and entirely inappropriate for the situation |
HollyShocker 2inthestink
State War Academy Caldari State
65
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 16:50:00 -
[7] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:While everyone's crying about the wanted sign, I just wanted to point out that the guy with 18b on his head is no more worth shooting than the guy with 500m. Because, from what I understand, you only get 20% of the value of what is destroyed; bounty amount doesn't impact anything other than the number of times you can blow someone up relative to the cost of the what's being destroyed. 100k or 1b, doesn't real mean much. Once that top 10 spot stops moving, and things settle down, I expect that the most wanted list is going to end up like the old one. Bragging rights. I am of the belief that this will happen, primarilly because the bounty total doesn't impact the payout in any way; eventually people are going to realise that the most wanted guys aren't worth hunting down. The guy with a few million bounty on him is worth just as much to a bounty hunter as the guys in the top 10 slots. However, I do understand that the primary reason the top 10 won't matter is because it'll be comprised of people who don't undock, have a large sum of ISK, and put the bounty on themselves. No one ever involved in regular pvp is going to sit at the top of the list, they'll likely be constantly clearing bounties on themselves by doing what they already do. People keep complaining about "wanted" not meaning anything, and they're the same people that are the reason the bounty system is the way it is. Large bounties would be common and "wanted" would really mean something if your bounty actually modified what a bounty hunter got for blowing you up. In order to keep you guys from becoming profitable to destroy in high sec the bounty sytem can't payout over the value of your ship, hence only 20% of your value from a pool. If you guys want meaningful, then let CCP do meaningful. You can't get your cake and eat too. As long as you guys are unwilling to assume some small level of risk in high sec, then tools like the bounty system will always have little meaning there. If you guys would have been willing to assume that little bit of risk, then the bounty system could have included a modifier that raised the payout on a wanted individual. Sinking a crap ton of money into an individual could have made them profitable as long as the pool exceeded a high enough value. Not to mention the value in being able to remove AFK miners and bots from the game. In case you missed it: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=74033Quote:The mining ship changes have led to a very large increase in mined volume. The new versions of the ships clearly provide useful mining alternatives to pilots willing to trade off some mining output for a reduced risk of suicide ganks or less workload shoveling ore to a jet can. Of course, the last part means greater opportunities for AFK-mining. That, in turn, probably explains why the Retriever has become the most commonly used mining ship, and also why the increase in mining activity is focused on high-security space. Who knew buffing the barges would lead to more AFK and bot mining in high sec. The bounty system could have been an excellent tool. If only...
Posting in stealth nerf hi-sec thread 8907654312
What does hi-sec have to do with how the bounty system is broken? Same mechanics for low/high with the exception you have to do a little math to make sure you do enough dps before concord and that the gank is profitable. |
Derek Quaid
Discreet Bounties
37
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 16:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Gotch Urarse wrote:I have little combat PvP xp (unless you count refitting and clone updating), so take what I have w/ a grain of salt.
Just a thought, maybe 20% is to low? If it was higher, closer to 50% value, would that change application? How did CCP come up with 20%? If this was covered in prior threads, I must have missed it. The old bounty system was simply a way of giving money to your target. The player would pod himself with an alt and walk away with the money. Tying the payout per kill to destroyed ISK value means that making a profit would require market manipulations similar to what the Goons did to game the FW system.
Now, CCP has supposedly changed the way in which item values are calculated to mitigate manipulations of value-based payouts, and I imagine the low percentage is a further buffer in that respect.
I find the system rather ingeniuos in having to essentially destroy 5x the bounty value to fully clear the bounty. This will result in targets being inconvenienced more than once or being chased down in their most pimped ships in hopes of a one-time sweep of an entire bounty.
Regardless of whether the payout calculations are satisfactory, however, be sure to avoid retaliatory bounties by placing your bounty anonymously through Discreet Bounties. CEO, Discreet Bounties In-game Channel: Discreet Bounties |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
577
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 16:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Bloodpetal wrote: Well, the difference is when you put that bounty on yourself, it's not recoverable like it used to be.
So, if you want to pay 50b to be on the top of a list - I guess you can have the money to do that.
I'm sure CCP will come up with a solution for this as it comes, because they do want the best targets on the top. Just give it time and recommendations to improve the system.
The people in the top spots weren't recovering the bounty.
What is a few billion virtual numbers in a game where I have several billion? Not to mention that putting 20 billion on myself, and flying around, doesn't make me any more viable a target as the guy with 10 million right next to me, if we're both flying cheap ships.
There's no reason to shoot the guy with the higher bounty if it's not going to effect your payout.
There's no way to fix it. Even if it expired, if someone's going to put it up once, they'll likely do it again. There's nothing that can be done to get around it. You can only hope to get as many people into the system as you can, so that it has an opportunity to be used.
But my point laid more in the area of it not mattering as long as you can't profit from it in high sec. If you want it to matter, then it needs to be able to be used to allow for a profit, even if it's a little profit based off of multi-billion isk bounties. Then the top 10 guys may actually end up being real bounty targets.
I'm sure people would invest to curb the afk and bot mining that CCP confirmed the barge and exhumaer buffs dramatically increased. |
Cutter Isaacson
Nouvelle Rouvenor
2168
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 16:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Gotch Urarse wrote:I have little combat PvP xp (unless you count refitting and clone updating), so take what I have w/ a grain of salt.
Just a thought, maybe 20% is to low? If it was higher, closer to 50% value, would that change application? How did CCP come up with 20%? If this was covered in prior threads, I must have missed it. How about if the higher your bounty got the further up it pushed the payout percentage. I gues my point kind of boiled down to "it doesn't matter". People are arguing over the value of being "wanted" and seem to think that it has anything to do with the minimum amount. One billion is no more meaningful a bounty as 100k in high sec. The only reason for it to be this way is so that you can't profit from it in high sec. The only reason to not allow us to profit from it in high sec is the players. And we know which players they are. I just think people should know who's at fault while they complain to CCP about the meaningfulness of the bounty system, and being wanted.
Rather than making blanket statements about high sec dwellers and assuming your conclusion is the only correct one, try remembering something else. If payouts increased dependant on the size of the bounty pool, the system would be hilariously open to abuse by large alliances with a penchant for bending/abusing the rules, or those with an excess of real life cash to spend.
Do you want EVE to be pay to win?
Personally I'd rather people had to make some kind of effort at least some of the time.
"The truth is usually just an excuse for a lack of imagination." Elim Garak.
|
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
577
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 16:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Othran wrote:Large personal bounties are mainly useless. Corp bounties however are a different matter - just like wardecs its only a matter of time until someone forgets and undocks something shiny and entirely inappropriate for the situation I don't deny this at all, and presonally feeel this is probably the single best feature of retribution.
HollyShocker 2inthestink wrote: Posting in stealth nerf hi-sec thread 8907654312
What does hi-sec have to do with how the bounty system is broken? Same mechanics for low/high with the exception you have to do a little math to make sure you do enough dps before concord and that the gank is profitable.
Didn't think it was very stealthy at all. Thought I was being pretty obvious.
While I'm not asking for anything, I am saying that high sec is the reason the bounty system works how it works.
Nor did I ever say broken. Only it won't have a lot of meaning IN high sec, and that large bounties are irrelevant regardless of where you are due to the payout mechanic; which is the way it is because of high sec. I didn't think I sugar coated. |
Alara IonStorm
3747
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 16:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gotch Urarse wrote:I have little combat PvP xp (unless you count refitting and clone updating), so take what I have w/ a grain of salt.
Just a thought, maybe 20% is to low? If it was higher, closer to 50% value, would that change application? How did CCP come up with 20%? If this was covered in prior threads, I must have missed it. Make it 50% and Bounties become pointless to anyone with an Alt / Friend and a waste to the player who put them up.
Buy Battlecruiser, Fully insure it, fill with mods of inflated value for a bit extra and have alt shoot it. Bounty + Insurance = Payday for the guy with a price on his head and inflated mods = cherry on top.
I am under the opinion Insurance should not be a thing in this game and instead newbie rewards for Level 1 / 2 Missions + low end belt / mission rat bounties should be increased. Then player bounty payout can be increased.
BTW the system should show the full bounty and how much you stand to gain from ship destruction. |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
354
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
The difference is that somebody with a big bounty is stuck with a dilemma: they can either confine themselves to cheaper ships, or they can accept that while flying the more expensive ones, people are likely to want a piece of them. Again and again and again.
They guys at the top of the list are going to have their flight habits, preferred ships, tactics and hangouts studied in detail, and then somebody will show up with the perfect gang to slaughter them when they're at their most juicy. If they want to avoid being that kind of a target, they need to confine themselves to cheap ships. Which will just attract the second tier of bounty hunter who don't feel able to take on a faction-fit rattlesnake, but feel well up to taking on a Tech 2 HAM drake.
Don't let the 20% fool you. The advantage to a big bounty is that by the time it becomes small enough to not attract attention again, the mark will have lost upwards of four times the value of the bounty on their head. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
577
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Rather than making blanket statements about high sec dwellers and assuming your conclusion is the only correct one, try remembering something else. If payouts increased dependant on the size of the bounty pool, the system would be hilariously open to abuse by large alliances with a penchant for bending/abusing the rules, or those with an excess of real life cash to spend.
Do you want EVE to be pay to win?
Personally I'd rather people had to make some kind of effort at least some of the time.
But it's a "blanket" issue.
It works how it works so that you can't profit from it in high sec. It's not a conspiracy.
In fact, I'm confident enough to say that I don't think a Dev would tell me I'm wrong. I believe whole heartedly that they would indeed say that it's designed around the 20% payout because it prevents bounties in high sec from being used to make ganking profitable. If you made it profitable, it would happen more, and they've been pretty clear that they fully intended for the new bounty system to NOT cause more ganking.
Now call me nutty, but all that is directly related to only one area of the game, high sec.
I'm saying, I disagree with that. It should be able to be used to make a profit, explicitly so that it can encourage a gank.
The mining buff impacted the game, and not a little bit. CCP varified it. The bounty system could have been the tool to counter AFK and bot mining in high sec. |
Mathrin
Synthetic Solution Synthetic Systems
4
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Gotch Urarse wrote:I have little combat PvP xp (unless you count refitting and clone updating), so take what I have w/ a grain of salt.
Just a thought, maybe 20% is to low? If it was higher, closer to 50% value, would that change application? How did CCP come up with 20%? If this was covered in prior threads, I must have missed it.
They need to make sure the bounty payout plus insurance payout is not greater than the ship value. We all know what happens then |
|
CCP Soundwave
C C P C C P Alliance
2294
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:While everyone's crying about the wanted sign, I just wanted to point out that the guy with 18b on his head is no more worth shooting than the guy with 500m. Because, from what I understand, you only get 20% of the value of what is destroyed; bounty amount doesn't impact anything other than the number of times you can blow someone up relative to the cost of the what's being destroyed. 100k or 1b, doesn't real mean much. Once that top 10 spot stops moving, and things settle down, I expect that the most wanted list is going to end up like the old one. Bragging rights. I am of the belief that this will happen, primarilly because the bounty total doesn't impact the payout in any way; eventually people are going to realise that the most wanted guys aren't worth hunting down. The guy with a few million bounty on him is worth just as much to a bounty hunter as the guys in the top 10 slots. However, I do understand that the primary reason the top 10 won't matter is because it'll be comprised of people who don't undock, have a large sum of ISK, and put the bounty on themselves. No one ever involved in regular pvp is going to sit at the top of the list, they'll likely be constantly clearing bounties on themselves by doing what they already do. People keep complaining about "wanted" not meaning anything, and they're the same people that are the reason the bounty system is the way it is. Large bounties would be common and "wanted" would really mean something if your bounty actually modified what a bounty hunter got for blowing you up. In order to keep you guys from becoming profitable to destroy in high sec the bounty sytem can't payout over the value of your ship, hence only 20% of your value from a pool. If you guys want meaningful, then let CCP do meaningful. You can't get your cake and eat too. As long as you guys are unwilling to assume some small level of risk in high sec, then tools like the bounty system will always have little meaning there. If you guys would have been willing to assume that little bit of risk, then the bounty system could have included a modifier that raised the payout on a wanted individual. Sinking a crap ton of money into an individual could have made them profitable as long as the pool exceeded a high enough value. Not to mention the value in being able to remove AFK miners and bots from the game. In case you missed it: http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=74033Quote:The mining ship changes have led to a very large increase in mined volume. The new versions of the ships clearly provide useful mining alternatives to pilots willing to trade off some mining output for a reduced risk of suicide ganks or less workload shoveling ore to a jet can. Of course, the last part means greater opportunities for AFK-mining. That, in turn, probably explains why the Retriever has become the most commonly used mining ship, and also why the increase in mining activity is focused on high-security space. Who knew buffing the barges would lead to more AFK and bot mining in high sec. The bounty system could have been an excellent tool. If only...
I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time. |
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
577
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:The difference is that somebody with a big bounty is stuck with a dilemma: they can either confine themselves to cheaper ships, or they can accept that while flying the more expensive ones, people are likely to want a piece of them. Again and again and again.
They guys at the top of the list are going to have their flight habits, preferred ships, tactics and hangouts studied in detail, and then somebody will show up with the perfect gang to slaughter them when they're at their most juicy. If they want to avoid being that kind of a target, they need to confine themselves to cheap ships. Which will just attract the second tier of bounty hunter who don't feel able to take on a faction-fit rattlesnake, but feel well up to taking on a Tech 2 HAM drake.
Don't let the 20% fool you. The advantage to a big bounty is that by the time it becomes small enough to not attract attention again, the mark will have lost upwards of four times the value of the bounty on their head. The guys at the top of the list dont' care.
Why do you guys seem to think that everyone who plays EVE, does flying in space? There's an entire group of us that rarely, if ever, undocks.
Why would my jita alt be impeded by a 100b isk bounty? Do you have any idea how many jita alts there are, or how much money they have? |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
354
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
The obvious solution being, "don't put bounties on Jita alts"
Or are you saying we need WiS PvP? An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
577
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:
I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.
I do agree.
But at some point, whether it be several billion or several hundred million or few billion, that number kind of loses it's merits.
I expect to see guys with bounties high enough to be considered permenant, I don't expect those guys to be the dudes flying a titan. |
Casirio
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
172
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
However, I do understand that the primary reason the top 10 won't matter is because it'll be comprised of people who don't undock, have a large sum of ISK, and put the bounty on themselves. No one ever involved in regular pvp is going to sit at the top of the list, they'll likely be constantly clearing bounties on themselves by doing what they already do.
Exhale. alliance is in top 10 most wanted alliances with 2.6 bil on our head. we've been roaming all over, stirring up fights and local comments about our bounty. The whole thing is great, and leads to more pvp. our KB speaks differently than what you think its all about.. |
|
Vertisce Soritenshi
Tactical Vendor of Services and Goods Partners of Industrial Service and Salvage
1876
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:12:00 -
[21] - Quote
You may only get 20% of what is destroyed but a higher bounty means that he will have people on his ass for the bounty for that many more kills or that much longer. Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821 |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
577
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:12:00 -
[22] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:The obvious solution being, "don't put bounties on Jita alts" Or are you saying we need WiS PvP?
No, Just that I think the bounty system would be better if it could have been used to create a profitable gank, through billion ISK high bounties.
Just expressing a difference of opinion really; that primarilly came about after reading the dev blog on the effects of the mining buffs. |
Alara IonStorm
3747
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:15:00 -
[23] - Quote
Meh I don't see bounties as a big deal.
In PvP Space every who would try to kill you for your bounty is most likely going to try anyway. In Hi Sec I don't see 20% as an incentive to gank simply because there are much more valuable target like un-tanked Industrials full of riches on Auto Pilot instead of calculating pennies with a few Catalysts to pop a Mackinaw and get 25mil spread 3 ways.
The people in the Catalyst eyeing a Mackinaw sure as heck are not doing for 10mil ISK and they sure as heck would be eyeing a Mackinaw without that bounty.
Corp Bounties probably would have an effect on who gets war dec's for sure but I don't see Individual Bounties as a deal. |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
355
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:15:00 -
[24] - Quote
there is no such thing as a perfect, non-exploitable system. I confess, I don't see the point in being able to place a bounty on yourself, but other than that I see a system that actually works, whereas the old one didn't. At all. Not even a little bit, it basically amounted to giving your enemies free money.
So some people are going to abuse it. That's EVE: ignore those sphincters, get on with the game and enjoy getting paid for your pew, that's how I see it. An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
577
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:You may only get 20% of what is destroyed but a higher bounty means that he will have people on his ass for the bounty for that many more kills or that much longer.
Yes, I agree.
However, I don't think that that means as much as it means when you're talking about flying around in high sec if you don't have a killright available on you.
A 1b isk bounty in high sec doesn't mean much more than a 1m isk bounty. They both pay the same, and without a killright you have to suicide gank them.
And as far as actually hunting down someone, is there any more value in hunting down the guy with a 1b bounty over the guy with 500m? In the end you want the guy flying the most value, not the guy with the higher bounty.
You're unlikely to be killing the same guy over and over again. Even if some people aren't smart enough to stay docked with hostiles at their door.
|
TheBlueMonkey
Don't Be a Menace That Red Alliance
215
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:21:00 -
[26] - Quote
You're right, I'd much rather get 20mil for killing someone in a 1bil ish faction BS because the bounty was 20mil.
Rather than getting 200mil because that person had a bounty over 200mil on his head.
If only there were ships worth even more, like a 4bil dreadnaught or a titan or some such thing.
That'd be crazy, such a thing |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
782
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:You may only get 20% of what is destroyed but a higher bounty means that he will have people on his ass for the bounty for that many more kills or that much longer. Yes, I agree. However, I don't think that that means as much as it means when you're talking about flying around in high sec if you don't have a killright available on you. A 1b isk bounty in high sec doesn't mean much more than a 1m isk bounty. They both pay the same, and without a killright you have to suicide gank them. And as far as actually hunting down someone, is there any more value in hunting down the guy with a 1b bounty over the guy with 500m? In the end you want the guy flying the most value, not the guy with the higher bounty. You're unlikely to be killing the same guy over and over again. Even if some people aren't smart enough to stay docked with hostiles at their door.
Nah. If they have a billion ISK bounty it means that you then count that as potential profit in a wardec. "It will cost me 50 million ISK to make this man a target for a week. From what I know of is flying habits, I can kill X ships Y number of times, I think. Is that worth it?"
Individuals then make that determination. |
Stitcher
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
355
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:22:00 -
[28] - Quote
So, lowsec and nullsec don't factor into your reasoning then?
We're talking about a PvP mechanic here, of course it's going to be less useful in highsec! An in-character blog and a video: http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
577
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:there is no such thing as a perfect, non-exploitable system. I confess, I don't see the point in being able to place a bounty on yourself, but other than that I see a system that actually works, whereas the old one didn't. At all. Not even a little bit, it basically amounted to giving your enemies free money.
So some people are going to abuse it. That's EVE: ignore those sphincters, get on with the game and enjoy getting paid for your pew, that's how I see it. For now, yes, and I'm not worried about people exploiting anything. I don't care if the top 10 guys are always alts that never undock; CCP can't stop without dirrectly monitorying and removing bounties.
But "use" is to early to be determined. We'll have to see a month from now. I expect the corp stuff will absolutely be used, but whether or not people are going to actively hunt bounties.
And don't forget, if someone's asking you to keep putting bounties on them, there's probably a good reason for it. Or does everyone thing that the top bounty hunters aren't going to be guys working together to put a specific name at the top; which is fine with me, I hope it's my stuff they buy to do this. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
577
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:28:00 -
[30] - Quote
Stitcher wrote:So, lowsec and nullsec don't factor into your reasoning then?
We're talking about a PvP mechanic here, of course it's going to be less useful in highsec! No, they don't.
My point is focues around high sec, the bounty system, and the recent news about the effects of the mining buff.
Guys in low and null don't care about pvp; It's pretty safe to assume that's pvp is one of the reasons we're here, why would we care about having a bounty? Someone already wants to blow me up, they aren't waiting for me to have a bounty first.
It's pretty irrelevant for me to worry if I have a bounty. |
|
Serptimis
Reds in Local
76
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
Make it 100% of the ship value, remove ship insurance. Anyone with a bounty cannot insure their ship. Yes, this means all bounties placed prevents a person insuring their ship, but hey, this is EVE right |
Alara IonStorm
3747
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:34:00 -
[32] - Quote
Serptimis wrote:Make it 100% of the ship value, remove ship insurance. Anyone with a bounty cannot insure their ship. Yes, this means all bounties placed prevents a person insuring their ship, but hey, this is EVE right I would rather not see every single persons Insurance being voided by someone placing minimum bounties on every person in local. That and losing the ability to place insurance because another mechanic.
Instead I would prefer the entire Insurance mechanic be weeded out in its entirety quick and clean like pulling a band-aid off.
|
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
783
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Stitcher wrote:So, lowsec and nullsec don't factor into your reasoning then?
We're talking about a PvP mechanic here, of course it's going to be less useful in highsec! No, they don't. My point is focues around high sec, the bounty system, and the recent news about the effects of the mining buff. Guys in low and null don't care about pvp; It's pretty safe to assume that's pvp is one of the reasons we're here, why would we care about having a bounty? Someone already wants to blow me up, they aren't waiting for me to have a bounty first. It's pretty irrelevant for me to worry if I have a bounty.
I like other people having a bounty, it makes a nice tasty treat after I blow up their ship. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
578
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:41:00 -
[34] - Quote
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Stitcher wrote:So, lowsec and nullsec don't factor into your reasoning then?
We're talking about a PvP mechanic here, of course it's going to be less useful in highsec! No, they don't. My point is focues around high sec, the bounty system, and the recent news about the effects of the mining buff. Guys in low and null don't care about pvp; It's pretty safe to assume that's pvp is one of the reasons we're here, why would we care about having a bounty? Someone already wants to blow me up, they aren't waiting for me to have a bounty first. It's pretty irrelevant for me to worry if I have a bounty. I like other people having a bounty, it makes a nice tasty treat after I blow up their ship. Pretty much right?
And effectively why low and null have zero consideration in my little rant. I mean, blue squares in my overview stress me out a little. I expect everyone to shoot me, nothings changing. |
Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
91
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:50:00 -
[35] - Quote
I am pleased to know that the guys I marked will be hunted for a very, very long time
"It's not about the money. It's about sending a message" |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
201
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 17:51:00 -
[36] - Quote
You're looking at the bounty system as a way to make money. That's where you're wrong.
The bounty system exists so people can get revenge. With the old system, this was impossible because you could simply kill your own alt in a rookie ship to remove the bounty. Now, with the payout system only paying part of the bounty, and only paying based on the value of the loss, the person is going to get blown up multiple times.
Someone has a legitimate bounty, they're taking an even bigger risk every time they undock, especially when out of empire. It doesn't just become a cruise through low sec like you do every day, it becomes that other guy happened to see your bounty and is calling in all his friends. Whatever activities you like to do are constantly being disrupted, because the bounty is so big people just keep killing you. You try to fly cheaper ships to make the payouts less worth it, but that just makes the bounty last longer.
The payout system is just a formalized way of paying someone to take your revenge for you. It's an open contract with everyone in EVE, rather than taking out a specific hit with Noir. or GHSC or whoever. Nobody is going to do it for profit, just like people doing all the other silly little activities in the game to screw over others don't make a profit on it. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
580
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 18:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:You're looking at the bounty system as a way to make money. That's where you're wrong.
The bounty system exists so people can get revenge. With the old system, this was impossible because you could simply kill your own alt in a rookie ship to remove the bounty. Now, with the payout system only paying part of the bounty, and only paying based on the value of the loss, the person is going to get blown up multiple times.
Someone has a legitimate bounty, they're taking an even bigger risk every time they undock, especially when out of empire. It doesn't just become a cruise through low sec like you do every day, it becomes that other guy happened to see your bounty and is calling in all his friends. Whatever activities you like to do are constantly being disrupted, because the bounty is so big people just keep killing you. You try to fly cheaper ships to make the payouts less worth it, but that just makes the bounty last longer.
The payout system is just a formalized way of paying someone to take your revenge for you. It's an open contract with everyone in EVE, rather than taking out a specific hit with Noir. or GHSC or whoever. Nobody is going to do it for profit, just like people doing all the other silly little activities in the game to screw over others don't make a profit on it. I think we probably mostly disagree with the impact that a bounty is going to have on someone in Empire, I don't think that it's going to have much of one at all once the novelty of it has worn off.
Corp bounties, yes. Personal bounties, no.
It's going to depend on there being enough people flying around with a killright available on them, and I don't think therre's going to be that many.
I'm also not saying I"m right and others are wrong, only that I think it would be a better system if it was possible for multi-BILLION ISK bounties could make a person profitable to kill.
It would give us a means of pushing bakc the amount of afk and bot mining that is now happening as a result of the mining buff. A couple billion isn't an inconsequential amount of mone; not something you're going to see lots of random people have on them.
After reading the dev blog about the effects of the mining barge and exhumer changes, I'm an even stronger believer that the PLAYERS, all players, need a way to effectively fight back against afk and mining bots. Suicide ganking is obviously not cutting it, and the payout system isn't going to have much impact either.
The bounty sytem could have been the tool to keep in check what exactly what everyone kept saying would happen. To much safety in high sec has an impact on other areas of the game. CCP just released stats that prove it. |
Ana Fox
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
27
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 18:26:00 -
[38] - Quote
Dorian Wylde wrote:You're looking at the bounty system as a way to make money. That's where you're wrong.
I think you are wrong.Bounty hunter dont care about your revenge he cares how much your revenge is lucrative for him.Someone will do that for glory but after some time when he loose xy ships he will start to look how to make that more profitable for him.
OP I personally dont like this system cause of trolling usage of this system.But ok my opinion is my only and that dont reflect is this system good or bad.My hope was that this system will bring us one more way of playing,more like new role in EVE,for now is just grief fest and toll cannon .
Maybe if they rise bounty shield on something that is more serious like 20 mil or so it can kick start new role for someone ,this way by spam of wanted so we have more ppl with that is just crap.Some people have so much isk that they can place bounty on every single person in EVE ,that is stupid to I must admit.CCP seems to like that cause omg people are using our new toy we are great ,but is that true?
I am not butthurt cause of this but it would be nice to have real bounty hunters in EVE. |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
560
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 18:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote: I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.
Your speculating just like everyone else, but obviously you forgot how your playerbase works, the guy you replied to has a valid point Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
287
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 18:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:
I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.
Just curious, but what exactly do you see as a point in a system where some idiot with more isk than sense drops bounties on anyone talking in the Help Chat? If you think that's "kewl" in the CCP design meetings, you guys really need to hire some adults to supervise the playground. This "new and improved" system is starting to unravel just like your T3 BC plan did. Fly Minmatar Air --- "Trust in the Rust!" |
|
Bohoba
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 18:59:00 -
[41] - Quote
so a 20 bill bounty
hi sec gank his suttle u get what 2K and you lose a ship hummm
if in a rohk you get a few mill
and you lose sec status
system is not working as I see it needs to be better payout for it to be worth it thats for sure
|
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
312
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 19:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
Since the bounty is "permanent", meaning it can't be taken back even if it was your own alt who set up the bounty, then all we need is an expiration date.
If you are willing to place 50 bil on your Jita alt and forever lose that money unless you actually lose it anyways by blowing yourself up, then so be it. If the bounty is not collected, it expires and we have an awesome ISK sink.
The problem you described would essentially get corrected over time. |
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations Shaktipat Revelators
790
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 19:01:00 -
[43] - Quote
Bohoba wrote:so a 20 bill bounty
hi sec gank his suttle u get what 2K and you lose a ship hummm
if in a rohk you get a few mill
and you lose sec status
system is not working as I see it needs to be better payout for it to be worth it thats for sure
You're proposing the old system, where people would get large bounties and then blow themselves up with an alt or with a friend. Paying more than the ship is worth is a losing proposition through nothing other than basic math. |
Bloodpetal
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal The Mockers AO
1064
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 21:59:00 -
[44] - Quote
The answer to this is clearly that you need to be able to hire dust mercs to infiltrate a station and collect the bounty.... Where I am. |
Primary Her
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:03:00 -
[45] - Quote
Putting bounties on competing jump freighter pilots is in fact pretty awesome. |
Diamond Bull
State War Academy Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:06:00 -
[46] - Quote
Eh? The bounty system has had no effect on me as far as I am concerned. It is a silly thing not worthy of my attention in game. However, I think the payouts are a bit ridiculous. I mean... Why would anyone in their right mind gank someone for less than they can get for killing one rat? Even then you'd have to start subtracting the cost of the ship they used if it was a suicide gank. The only people who I see benefiting this are the people who would have ganked anyway. |
Karig'Ano Keikira
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:10:00 -
[47] - Quote
Troll or not, I wonder... anyway, EVE mechanics prevent bounty of > 20% making sense, simply due to fact that you can suicide your fully insured ship with no modules by an alt - if bounty is > 20%, it becomes profitable and there is no way around that, therefore 20% cap to payouts ofc, if insurance is removed things might become interesting, but I guess it won't happen off the topic - why the insurance mechanic anyway? |
The CandyGirl
Candy's Toy Shop
8
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:32:00 -
[48] - Quote
Alara IonStorm wrote:Serptimis wrote:Make it 100% of the ship value, remove ship insurance. Anyone with a bounty cannot insure their ship. Yes, this means all bounties placed prevents a person insuring their ship, but hey, this is EVE right I would rather not see every single persons Insurance being voided by someone placing minimum bounties on every person in local. That and losing the ability to place insurance because another mechanic. Instead I would prefer the entire Insurance mechanic be weeded out in its entirety quick and clean like pulling a band-aid off.
Just curious but did they fix the insurance payout for t2 and t3? seeing as that is almost only what i fly i haven't. Even opened the insurance window since the first time i saw how little the payout was for the actual value of the ship.
And if then havnet than you can assume that anyone flying a t2 or t3 probaly wont bother with the insurance.
Of course i am remembering when i would get a hac for 120ish mil with a max insurance payout of like 15-20mil |
Johan Civire
Dirty Curse inc.
217
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ginger Barbarella wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:
I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.
Just curious, but what exactly do you see as a point in a system where some idiot with more isk than sense drops bounties on anyone talking in the Help Chat? If you think that's "kewl" in the CCP design meetings, you guys really need to hire some adults to supervise the playground. This "new and improved" system is starting to unravel just like your T3 BC plan did.
say the dude with his alt..... |
Ritsum
Perkone Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:42:00 -
[50] - Quote
Large bounty's are not pointless, sure you only get a small sum of it each time you kill them but that just means you have the chance to stalk your prey constantly and get cash for each kill making for prolonged bounty hunting.
One would think a hunter would prefer hunting the same target instead of having to dig up information on a new target after each kill. People are subject to repetition meaning you can find out the best times to gank someone after a bit of observation. So with this new system a hunter can find 2-3 targets that seem to always have bounty's and find their weaknesses and begin a long hunt essentially giving the hunter a passive income. I am a proud High Sec Pve player. Got a problem? |
|
Alara IonStorm
3752
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:49:00 -
[51] - Quote
The CandyGirl wrote: Just curious but did they fix the insurance payout for t2 and t3? seeing as that is almost only what i fly i haven't. Even opened the insurance window since the first time i saw how little the payout was for the actual value of the ship.
And if then havnet than you can assume that anyone flying a t2 or t3 probaly wont bother with the insurance.
Of course i am remembering when i would get a hac for 120ish mil with a max insurance payout of like 15-20mil
Nope they still have pathetically low insurance. I hope they fix it soon so the insurance cost will be 0 and the payout 0 for all ships T1 T2 T3 and Faction Ships.
Pathetically low is too much money given free for a loss. |
Angeal MacNova
9th Fleet-Seraphins
44
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 22:55:00 -
[52] - Quote
As much as it would be nice to collect on the entire bounty, something had to be done. The old system simply didn't work. You use an alt or trusted fellow player to kill you and collect on it yourself. What else could they have done?
I think that the changes made for an adequate solution to the previous problem.
As for insurance, I think insurance needs to be next to change. I have an idea for it so gonna go post it in the suggestions section. |
Solutio Letum
Lost Dawn Chaos Stealth Syndicate
10
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 23:09:00 -
[53] - Quote
no just pull a 5 billion bounty on that ratting nyx pilot you know, that just sometimes once you where there camped a gate or supported a hotdrop, or 30 billions on that titan, now you got some really big corp running and spying on them all the time, or get a big bounty on that stupid carebear that kills rookies for a living canfliping them infront of stations, hes gonna be worth a couple millions sometime and hes gonna get baited sometime exactly like he does all the tim
this new bounty system is not about who is top 10, but every single guy who is under it |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
25
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 23:15:00 -
[54] - Quote
Soooo.... Bounties aren't profitable in high sec? Lets take the much loved retriever. Gankable by a single destroyer according to people. Value of a retriever, maybe 30 mil once modules and some ore in the cargo hold are taken into account. You get maybe 2-3 million in loot drops off it. You get a 6 million bounty off it. This means to make a profit, all you need is a single destroyer to cost you under 8 million.
Similar hunting mission ships. Scan them down, catch them mid mission with their tank already depleted, point them and add that little bit of extra DPS, and watch their tank collapse. Collect 15 Million bounty on that BC you just collapsed the tank of alongside the rats.
And this is without looking at the pimp mission fit pirate battleships with officer fits that are worth billions flying around high sec.
Are 'some' fits like a heavily tanked drake going to be unprofitable to gank when just flying between gates & no kill rights on them in high sec. Sure. Is this a problem? I sure don't think so. |
Merouk Baas
59
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 23:28:00 -
[55] - Quote
IMO, the impact of the bounty revolves around losing your high-sec protections, if you had any. Specifically, if you have a high bounty on you, you'll want to avoid doing anything that disables Concord.
Namely:
- Join a player corp and your corpies may try to fleet you up and blow you up for kicks (and now ISKs).
- Join a player corp and they may get wardecced, for the chance to shoot you during the war. I.E. the wardec is because of you. Don't know who's gonna recruit high-bounty players anymore.
- The top 10 list is publishing your name, in a game where anonymity is preferred. Everyone's running locator agents all the time, stalking, harrassing, etc. Ask Chribba about the unwanted attention he's getting, or that Somer Blink woman they blogged about, or anybody popular.
- Generating killrights via sucide ganking can be problematic for the ganker, as he can now get interrupted by annoying people activating killrights left and right. Activities that used to be fun are now annoying.
- Passage through low sec is now more problematic, as your bounty will attract the locals more than passers-through did in the past.
Veterans see the bounty as a chance to PVP, even profit. Unfortunately, I believe that a lot of the newbies, and quite a few of the carebears will see it as something that's not under their control but makes their character completely useless and unable to undock, be recruited, do anything in the game. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3960
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 23:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote: The guys at the top of the list dont' care.
krixtal, one of the most bountied people in eve, has already declared he is quitting in a huff |
Merouk Baas
59
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 23:41:00 -
[57] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Similar hunting mission ships. Scan them down, catch them mid mission with their tank already depleted, point them and add that little bit of extra DPS, and watch their tank collapse. Collect 15 Million bounty on that BC you just collapsed the tank of alongside the rats.
Lol, do try that.
1. In high sec, Concord.
2. New mission rat AI means they all switch to you because:
a. You've just entered the pocket. b. You're in a smaller ship. c. You're using ewar (to tackle).
If the frigate rats don't point you, the mission ship is free to defend himself and all he has to do is point you back. The rats will likely stay on you, even with his use of ewar.
EDIT: Also, the same rat AI when YOU decide to grind back your -10 so you can re-enter highsec. |
Holy One
Aliastra Gallente Federation
315
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 23:44:00 -
[58] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote: I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.
How do you hunt someone's scrubby alt that never undocks? THIS CHAR FOR SALE:-áhttps://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2274095#post2274095 |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
2216
|
Posted - 2012.12.07 23:48:00 -
[59] - Quote
CFC tears nonshocker. Delicious!
Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner! |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
590
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 15:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:As much as it would be nice to collect on the entire bounty, something had to be done. The old system simply didn't work. You use an alt or trusted fellow player to kill you and collect on it yourself. What else could they have done?
I think that the changes made for an adequate solution to the previous problem.
As for insurance, I think insurance needs to be next to change. I have an idea for it so gonna go post it in the suggestions section. Paying out the entire bounty was a bad idea, and still is. I don't advocate that. And you are correct, the 20% payout is an addiquate solution to people blowing themselves up to collect the bounty.
Gettng 25%, 30%, 35%, etc. based on the amount of the bounty would make having large bounties really mean something.
Nevyn Auscent wrote: Soooo.... Bounties aren't profitable in high sec? Lets take the much loved retriever. Gankable by a single destroyer according to people. Value of a retriever, maybe 30 mil once modules and some ore in the cargo hold are taken into account. You get maybe 2-3 million in loot drops off it. You get a 6 million bounty off it. This means to make a profit, all you need is a single destroyer to cost you under 8 million.
Similar hunting mission ships. Scan them down, catch them mid mission with their tank already depleted, point them and add that little bit of extra DPS, and watch their tank collapse. Collect 15 Million bounty on that BC you just collapsed the tank of alongside the rats.
And this is without looking at the pimp mission fit pirate battleships with officer fits that are worth billions flying around high sec.
Are 'some' fits like a heavily tanked drake going to be unprofitable to gank when just flying between gates & no kill rights on them in high sec. Sure. Is this a problem? I sure don't think so.
That's not really an example of profiting from the bounty sytem. You're relying on the potential drops, and the more that drops the less you get from the bounty pool.
CCP was really smart about how they implemented the payout.
Merouk Baas wrote: IMO, the impact of the bounty revolves around losing your high-sec protections, if you had any. Specifically, if you have a high bounty on you, you'll want to avoid doing anything that disables Concord.
Namely:
- Join a player corp and your corpies may try to fleet you up and blow you up for kicks (and now ISKs).
- Join a player corp and they may get wardecced, for the chance to shoot you during the war. I.E. the wardec is because of you. Don't know who's gonna recruit high-bounty players anymore.
- The top 10 list is publishing your name, in a game where anonymity is preferred. Everyone's running locator agents all the time, stalking, harrassing, etc. Ask Chribba about the unwanted attention he's getting, or that Somer Blink woman they blogged about, or anybody popular.
- Generating killrights via sucide ganking can be problematic for the ganker, as he can now get interrupted by annoying people activating killrights left and right. Activities that used to be fun are now annoying.
- Passage through low sec is now more problematic, as your bounty will attract the locals more than passers-through did in the past.
Veterans see the bounty as a chance to PVP, even profit. Unfortunately, I believe that a lot of the newbies, and quite a few of the carebears will see it as something that's not under their control but makes their character completely useless and unable to undock, be recruited, do anything in the game.
I don't thinkk most of this is relevant to the bounty system.
1) That's a silly reason to not join a player corp, and you can always start your own if you're silly enough to let this prevent you from expanding you possible gameplay in EVE.
2) Individual bounties aren't going to have an impact on corp activety. A corp bounty is going to attrack a wardeck.
5) Passage through lowsec on monday morning was no easier then it is today. If your corp doesn't control the gate, you're probably getting shot. Bounties are just an added bonus. Maybe they'll encourage more people to go to these areas of space, and I do hope it does, but that effect won't really be known or accurately measured for some time. We need a few months to see how things settle.
Anyone that leaves EVE because of a mechanic that they don't have complete control over, shouldn't be playing EVE. That's not how EVE works, it's never worked that way, and it's never intended to work that way. It's the point of a sandbox; one that is lost on many.
The results of the barge and ehuamer rebalance show that even your saftey in high sec has an impact on the larger game. CCP admits that buffing them had a impact on the number of people AFK and Bot mining in high sec, and they showed how it's impacting the game as a whole.
The mining buff, and removal of profitable miner ganks, made an already large gap in the profitability of industry between null and high sec even larger. Mining in high sec, and not getting blown up has a real effect on the game.
At the same time they made it easier and safer to mine in high sec, they made it harder and less attractive to blow up a miner. CCP didn't want one ship singled out for destructin because you could almost always make a profit off of it, I agree. However, all ships isn't the same as a single ship, and if it costs many other people lots of ISK to make a single ship profitable, that wouldn't be bad.
A billion 5 isk bounty on a single person in order for someone to be able to gank them, with the right amount of value being flown, and make small profit, would be good for us. Us, as in the whole of EVE's playerbase. A mulit-billion ISK bounty would take work, coordination, and a large investment from the wider community to maintane. |
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
594
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 15:47:00 -
[61] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote:CFC tears nonshocker. Delicious! Yes, anyone without the ability to express a thought in a clear, concise, and constructive manner would indeed think it's tears.
And the butthurt. |
Jonathan Malcom
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
105
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 16:28:00 -
[62] - Quote
The only real shortcoming of the current system is the kill rights implementation.
Kill rights should have a centralized marketplace, tied to the bounty board, where they can be browsed and purchased.
Kill rights should not flag the target as a suspect for 15 minutes as they do now. They should create a limited engagement between the purchaser and the offender for 24 hours.
Kill right sales should be intractable.
Kill rights should be a tool specifically designed to facilitate high security bounty hunting.
I don't understand how CCP didn't understand this during the initial implementation. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
594
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 16:38:00 -
[63] - Quote
Jonathan Malcom wrote:The only real shortcoming of the current system is the kill rights implementation.
Kill rights should have a centralized marketplace, tied to the bounty board, where they can be browsed and purchased.
Kill rights should not flag the target as a suspect for 15 minutes as they do now. They should create a limited engagement between the purchaser and the offender for 24 hours.
Kill right sales should be intractable.
Kill rights should be a tool specifically designed to facilitate high security bounty hunting.
I don't understand how CCP didn't understand this during the initial implementation.
I won't disagree, but it doesn't really address -at least what I percieve- is a need to be able to have a real impact on those who do not generate killrights.
To me the data made it evident that more mining ships in high sec need to be destroyed. Suicide ganking isn't cutting because it's almost always a loss, and the bounty sytem doesn't make it possible to at least allow a break even state to happen.
Blowing up miners in high sec is as important, if not MORE than it is in null. Understandable some people don't like that idea, but it is how it is.
The dev blog on the effects of the mining changes clearly show what happens when you make high sec mining safer, and remove the profitability of ganking miners. And it's not good.
The bounty system could be a very good tool to shift things back towards better. Banning doesn't stop botting, it only slows it temporarily. A safer high sec isn't always the best idea in a game like EVE. |
Jonathan Malcom
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
105
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 16:58:00 -
[64] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Jonathan Malcom wrote:The only real shortcoming of the current system is the kill rights implementation.
Kill rights should have a centralized marketplace, tied to the bounty board, where they can be browsed and purchased.
Kill rights should not flag the target as a suspect for 15 minutes as they do now. They should create a limited engagement between the purchaser and the offender for 24 hours.
Kill right sales should be intractable.
Kill rights should be a tool specifically designed to facilitate high security bounty hunting.
I don't understand how CCP didn't understand this during the initial implementation. I won't disagree, but it doesn't really address -at least what I percieve- is a need to be able to have a real impact on those who do not generate killrights. To me the data made it evident that more mining ships in high sec need to be destroyed. Suicide ganking isn't cutting because it's almost always a loss, and the bounty sytem doesn't make it possible to at least allow a break even state to happen. Blowing up miners in high sec is as important, if not MORE than it is in null. Understandable some people don't like that idea, but it is how it is. The dev blog on the effects of the mining changes clearly show what happens when you make high sec mining safer, and remove the profitability of ganking miners. And it's not good. The bounty system could be a very good tool to shift things back towards better. Banning doesn't stop botting, it only slows it temporarily. A safer high sec isn't always the best idea in a game like EVE.
I would argue that the bounty system does actually make high security less safe than it was previously. Just not as unsafe as you would prefer, perhaps.
Bounties still offset the cost of suicide ganking. Just not enough to make it a profitable affair.
I would argue that making suicide ganking profitable was never the intention.
Nor should it be, in my opinion.
Curbing the proliferation of AFK miners is a worthy goal. But I think this is the wrong tool for that job. |
Tao Shaile
Vault205 Holding NanoTex NCore Legion
5
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 21:23:00 -
[65] - Quote
Corp Member today helped a guy in HELP Channel and the noob gave him a "WANTED" tag.
The whole criminal tag **** and also changes to the war system let me rethink about subscription renewals.
All the patches and new updates make no sense, if they make no sense.
Are CCP developers payed buy doing useless stuff?
Thanks god it is not my company. In the US they would fire you for such crap. We Step On Puppies
The FIRST evecrimes database! Before you hit "accept" to hire someone, check this out: http://www.evecrimes.simworkx.com |
Jonathan Malcom
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
105
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 21:37:00 -
[66] - Quote
Tao Shaile wrote:Corp Member today helped a guy in HELP Channel and the noob gave him a "WANTED" tag.
The whole criminal tag **** and also changes to the war system let me rethink about subscription renewals.
All the patches and new updates make no sense, if they make no sense.
Are CCP developers payed buy doing useless stuff?
Thanks god it is not my company. In the US they would fire you for such crap.
If you're from the US, English is your native language and you should be ashamed of this terrible, rambling, frothing post.
I read It through twice (I hate myself) and still have no idea what you're on about. |
Tao Shaile
Vault205 Holding NanoTex NCore Legion
5
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 21:57:00 -
[67] - Quote
Jonathan Malcom wrote:Tao Shaile wrote:Corp Member today helped a guy in HELP Channel and the noob gave him a "WANTED" tag.
The whole criminal tag **** and also changes to the war system let me rethink about subscription renewals.
All the patches and new updates make no sense, if they make no sense.
Are CCP developers payed buy doing useless stuff?
Thanks god it is not my company. In the US they would fire you for such crap. If you're from the US, English is your native language and you should be ashamed of this terrible, rambling, frothing post. I read It through twice (I hate myself) and still have no idea what you're on about.
You must not be very intelligent to undertand the post. But I can give you another example:
I buy two plex, visit recru channel and help channel and add randomly to every player a bounty, no matter what security status this guy has or not. How-¦s about that?
He can wonder then why he got the wanted tag on his character and he can wonder how he could eventually get rid of it again if he does not want the criminal tag
In other words: The whole new criminal tagging system is USELESS!
It should (like with the old system) A: only be possible to slap a bounty on a char if he already has negative standings, or B: only be possible to slap a bounty on someone with killrights or an agression countrer active.
Putting bounty on random characters is absolut BS We Step On Puppies
|
Asunya
Lost Souls Continuum Test Alliance Please Ignore
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 22:10:00 -
[68] - Quote
Put a large bounty on a Freighter or JF-Pilot and with a good chance, his vessel will sit in a station like a beached whale, until his bounty is gone ;-)
Edit: put a small bounty on the same pilot and he will probably buy it off, by letting himself killed with a couple of cheap overrated and highly insured ships. |
Tao Shaile
Vault205 Holding NanoTex NCore Legion
5
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 22:11:00 -
[69] - Quote
Asunya wrote:Put a large bounty on a Freighter or JF-Pilot and with a good chance, his vessel will sit in a station like a beached whale, until his bounty is gone ;-)
You are right :) And until I decide not to extend my eve subscription anymore because I want to play and not sit in station :) We Step On Puppies
|
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
497
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 22:32:00 -
[70] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Gotch Urarse wrote:I have little combat PvP xp (unless you count refitting and clone updating), so take what I have w/ a grain of salt.
Just a thought, maybe 20% is to low? If it was higher, closer to 50% value, would that change application? How did CCP come up with 20%? If this was covered in prior threads, I must have missed it. How about if the higher your bounty got the further up it pushed the payout percentage.
This is actually a pretty good idea. It makes sense and adds incentive to push a players bounty up higher if he really is someone that you want to make sure gets his.
So, for example, assume 20% is the minimum payout on any player with a bounty, then add a compounding 1% increase to that for incremental increases of 25 million in bounty placed on him/her. That would give you >24% payout at ~500 million.
20*(1.01)^n where n is the number of increments.
10 Million ISK increments is too little as you'd end up with ~24.4% payout on a 200 million ISK Bounty, and 20*(1.01)^(1000/10) = ~54.1% payout at 1 billion ISK, where 25 will put it at 20*(1.01)^(1000/25) = ~29.8%
Seems a good way to go. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
|
Jonathan Malcom
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
105
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 22:33:00 -
[71] - Quote
Tao Shaile wrote:Jonathan Malcom wrote:Tao Shaile wrote:Corp Member today helped a guy in HELP Channel and the noob gave him a "WANTED" tag.
The whole criminal tag **** and also changes to the war system let me rethink about subscription renewals.
All the patches and new updates make no sense, if they make no sense.
Are CCP developers payed buy doing useless stuff?
Thanks god it is not my company. In the US they would fire you for such crap. If you're from the US, English is your native language and you should be ashamed of this terrible, rambling, frothing post. I read It through twice (I hate myself) and still have no idea what you're on about. You must not be very intelligent to undertand the post. But I can give you another example: I buy two plex, visit recru channel and help channel and add randomly to every player a bounty, no matter what security status this guy has or not. How-¦s about that? He can wonder then why he got the wanted tag on his character and he can wonder how he could eventually get rid of it again if he does not want the criminal tag In other words: The whole new criminal tagging system is USELESS! It should (like with the old system) A: only be possible to slap a bounty on a char if he already has negative standings, or B: only be possible to slap a bounty on someone with killrights or an agression countrer active. The possibility to slap a bounty on random characters is absolut BS
I'm sure my inability to understand what you're trying to communicate is due to my lack of reading comprehension, rather than your rampant misspelling, sentence fragments and generally incomprehensible statements.
Also, consider understanding a desire before rage posting about it.
Having a bounty doesn't make you a criminal. Bounties are a civil matter, not a criminal matter. |
Jonathan Malcom
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
105
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 22:41:00 -
[72] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Gotch Urarse wrote:I have little combat PvP xp (unless you count refitting and clone updating), so take what I have w/ a grain of salt.
Just a thought, maybe 20% is to low? If it was higher, closer to 50% value, would that change application? How did CCP come up with 20%? If this was covered in prior threads, I must have missed it. How about if the higher your bounty got the further up it pushed the payout percentage. This is actually a pretty good idea. It makes sense and adds incentive to push a players bounty up higher if he really is someone that you want to make sure gets his. So, for example, assume 20% is the minimum payout on any player with a bounty, then add a compounding 1% increase to that for incremental increases of 25 million in bounty placed on him/her. That would give you >24% payout at ~500 million. 20*(1.01)^n where n is the number of increments. 10 Million ISK increments is too little as you'd end up with ~24.4% payout on a 200 million ISK Bounty, and 20*(1.01)^(1000/10) = ~54.1% payout at 1 billion ISK, where 25 will put it at 20*(1.01)^(1000/25) = ~29.8% Seems a good way to go.
The only issue with this method is that you have to cap the increase before it becomes profitable for the person with the blunt to kill themselves out have a friend do it.
It's generally accepted that 20% of the value of the ship and mods, less the insurance payout, is close to this limit. |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
497
|
Posted - 2012.12.08 23:39:00 -
[73] - Quote
Jonathan Malcom wrote:Mars Theran wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Gotch Urarse wrote:I have little combat PvP xp (unless you count refitting and clone updating), so take what I have w/ a grain of salt.
Just a thought, maybe 20% is to low? If it was higher, closer to 50% value, would that change application? How did CCP come up with 20%? If this was covered in prior threads, I must have missed it. How about if the higher your bounty got the further up it pushed the payout percentage. This is actually a pretty good idea. It makes sense and adds incentive to push a players bounty up higher if he really is someone that you want to make sure gets his. So, for example, assume 20% is the minimum payout on any player with a bounty, then add a compounding 1% increase to that for incremental increases of 25 million in bounty placed on him/her. That would give you >24% payout at ~500 million. 20*(1.01)^n where n is the number of increments. 10 Million ISK increments is too little as you'd end up with ~24.4% payout on a 200 million ISK Bounty, and 20*(1.01)^(1000/10) = ~54.1% payout at 1 billion ISK, where 25 will put it at 20*(1.01)^(1000/25) = ~29.8% Seems a good way to go. The only issue with this method is that you have to cap the increase before it becomes profitable for the person with the bounty to kill themselves or have a friend do it. It's generally accepted that 20% of the value of the ship and mods, less the insurance payout, is close to this limit.
Less the Insurance payout would mean that no bounty was paid.Insurance is well over 20% of the value of the ship in some cases, which would mean that more expensive ships would pay less or nothing at all.
Either way, you take the maximum, Platinum Insurance on the ship, which covers just the ship, and only Tech 1 value of the Hull.
A Catalyst atm pays out very near the selling price of the hull, but at a cost of roughly 1/3rd of that for the insurance. That's about 30% of the hull value.
Now, add modules, fittings, etc... you've got a ship potentially valued at 1.6 to 20 million ISK depending on your fit. Bounty afaik pays out roughly 20% of that, which puts you in at a payout of 320K to 4 million ISK. Subtract from that the Insurance cost of 350K ISK, and you have -30K to 3.65 million ISK. That is a long way from 1.6 to 4 million ISK investment.
The larger the ship; generally the less difference between hull cost and fitted cost, but a Battleship can still cost you 100 million more to fit with tech 2 than you paid for it. That tends to be where the percentages are balanced though, with much less margin for error. ..particularly if it's fit with Tech 1 meta 0.
I'm not really interested in buying a Battleship atm, and actually couldn't afford it or the insurance anyway. Your Meowbet site still hasn't returned my 88 million ISK, and I suspect they won't. Not that I'm particularly surprised, but I do wonder if scamming through a website is really within the rules. Maybe you're just slow processing it, with nearly a week gone by. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
189
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 01:15:00 -
[74] - Quote
Stitcher wrote: Don't let the 20% fool you. The advantage to a big bounty is that by the time it becomes small enough to not attract attention again, the mark will have lost upwards of four times the value of the bounty on their head.
Retribution .. the Stealth ISK sink expansion ... who'd have thought |
Zoctrine
Perkone Caldari State
24
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 01:41:00 -
[75] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote: If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.
You mean Griefed and/or Harassaded for a long time? |
Darek Castigatus
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
208
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 01:47:00 -
[76] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote: The guys at the top of the list dont' care.
krixtal, one of the most bountied people in eve, has already declared he is quitting in a huff
He always says crap like that though, never once seen him follow through on it. |
Bloodpetal
Sal's Waste Management and Pod Disposal The Mockers AO
1065
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 07:11:00 -
[77] - Quote
People don't like me because I have a bounty :(
Where I am. |
Merouk Baas
68
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 07:33:00 -
[78] - Quote
Kitty Bear wrote:Retribution .. the Stealth ISK sink expansion ... who'd have thought
Anybody looking at the increased mineral and PLEX prices? I reactivated about 2 weeks before the expansion and my first thought upon looking at the market was "they must be itching to get rid of all the ISK."
It's not a sink because of the ship destructions, though, it's a sink because of all the silly people bountying everyone. 100 mil ISK ea. sitting forever on the heads of Jita trading alts or other high-sec denizens, never to be collected, cause they never undock or fly anything bigger than a shuttle. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2187
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 07:54:00 -
[79] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote: Who knew buffing the barges would lead to more AFK and bot mining in high sec.
The bounty system could have been an excellent tool. If only...
No, buffing AFK mining reduced botting, because it made it unneeded to achieve the task. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2187
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 07:59:00 -
[80] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote: Now call me nutty, but all that is directly related to only one area of the game, high sec.
I'm saying, I disagree with that. It should be able to be used to make a profit, explicitly so that it can encourage a gank.
You don't show being nutty, your posting history shows a record of someone complaining much more often than an hi seccer.
Natsett Amuinn wrote: The mining buff impacted the game, and not a little bit.
Pick one: rampant botting vs less botting and less ices worth. CCP chose the latter. Sue them. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2187
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 08:09:00 -
[81] - Quote
Merouk Baas wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Similar hunting mission ships. Scan them down, catch them mid mission with their tank already depleted, point them and add that little bit of extra DPS, and watch their tank collapse. Collect 15 Million bounty on that BC you just collapsed the tank of alongside the rats.
Lol, do try that. If the frigate rats don't point you, the mission ship is free to defend himself and all he has to do is point you back. The rats will likely stay on you, even with his use of ewar.
Hot news, mission ships are fitted with scramblers
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
2187
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 08:12:00 -
[82] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote: The mining buff, and removal of profitable miner ganks, made an already large gap in the profitability of industry between null and high sec even larger. Mining in high sec, and not getting blown up has a real effect on the game.
More mining in hi sec reduces hi sec minerals value and this promotes high ends sales. Just saying. You only lose if you mined ice in null sec, which I don't think many are dumb enough to do.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
448
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 10:17:00 -
[83] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote: The mining buff, and removal of profitable miner ganks, made an already large gap in the profitability of industry between null and high sec even larger. Mining in high sec, and not getting blown up has a real effect on the game.
More mining in hi sec reduces hi sec minerals value and this promotes high ends sales. Just saying. You only lose if you mined ice in null sec, which I don't think many are dumb enough to do.
Further to your post, I have yet to see a null sec player recognize that one of the biggest demand drivers in the game for trit and pyerite is the enormous supercap manufacturing industry, all of which is based in null sec, purely for the benefit of null sec players. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
74
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 10:58:00 -
[84] - Quote
It's hard to make a balanced bounty system, as targets always want to kill themselves if they can make profit...
Why not raising a bit the payout percentage, with a negative ponderation if the ship was insured ? *Yelling "Manticooore !" on teamspeak* |
Riedle
Paradox Collective Choke Point
198
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 13:01:00 -
[85] - Quote
Quote:I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time .
I think a combination of the payout between the value on the ship flown and the size of the bounty pool would help to bring more incentives to hunt the larger bounty players and keep it immune from exploitation. |
Riedle
Paradox Collective Choke Point
198
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 13:15:00 -
[86] - Quote
Jonathan Malcom wrote:Tao Shaile wrote:Corp Member today helped a guy in HELP Channel and the noob gave him a "WANTED" tag.
The whole criminal tag **** and also changes to the war system let me rethink about subscription renewals.
All the patches and new updates make no sense, if they make no sense.
Are CCP developers payed buy doing useless stuff?
Thanks god it is not my company. In the US they would fire you for such crap. If you're from the US, English is your native language and you should be ashamed of this terrible, rambling, frothing post. I read It through twice (I hate myself) and still have no idea what you're on about.
Why would you assume everyone in the US has their native language as English? Clearly you have never been to the US. |
Riedle
Paradox Collective Choke Point
198
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 13:17:00 -
[87] - Quote
Tao Shaile wrote:Asunya wrote:Put a large bounty on a Freighter or JF-Pilot and with a good chance, his vessel will sit in a station like a beached whale, until his bounty is gone ;-) You are right :) And until I decide not to extend my eve subscription anymore because I want to play and not sit in station :) If you will sit in a station and refuse go undock because there is a large bounty on you then you should quit as you are playing the wrong game. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
5416
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 13:28:00 -
[88] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote: The mining buff, and removal of profitable miner ganks, made an already large gap in the profitability of industry between null and high sec even larger. Mining in high sec, and not getting blown up has a real effect on the game.
More mining in hi sec reduces hi sec minerals value and this promotes high ends sales. Just saying. You only lose if you mined ice in null sec, which I don't think many are dumb enough to do. Further to your post, I have yet to see a null sec player recognize that one of the biggest demand drivers in the game for trit and pyerite is the enormous supercap manufacturing industry, all of which is based in null sec, purely for the benefit of null sec players.
Thanks for this incredible insight. You have just revolutionised everyone's perspective with this amazing bit of economic analysis. MatrixSkye Mk2: "Remember: You consent to unconsensual PVP the moment you press the "Undock" button." |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
79
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 13:55:00 -
[89] - Quote
The reason for the 20% was not to avoid high-sec killings becoming profitable but to prevent people claiming their own bounty. I know a number of people who, short of a bit of cash, would have an alt or a corpie pod them in an empty clone and split the cash - oft-times billions of ISK.
Although staging the bounty means that there is no grand payout for managing to beat that uber-pirate from the most wanted list it also means that placing a bounty on someone's head no longer means free ISK for them so, while it may appear meaningless at the moment it is at least better than it was before (ie counterproductive). |
Michael Alyksander
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 14:48:00 -
[90] - Quote
I kinda wish the whole bounty system worked differently. Bounties on players should put them at various stages of being wanted. A bounty hunter accepts a mission based on difficulty(possibly region of space to be a factor as well) and is then given a person who has a bounty on them. That person then has killrights on that target whereever they are, hi/lo/null is no issue. That person is given the tools to help them find the target, and when the two engage one another if the hunter loses the bounty is voided(the killright he has, the actually bounty itself is put back in the pool for another hunter to attempt), if the hunter wins, he gets the full bounty amount on the target.
This stops the player from killing themselves for a payout, makes a system that is somewhat unpredictable, and actually creates a true bounty hunter profession. |
|
Merovee
Gorthaur Legion Of Mordor
72
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 16:48:00 -
[91] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:
I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.
Here what I thought Bounty was going to be: people with neg sec would get bounties and people living in high sec would be able to kill them with concord blessing, no sec hit. Too simple? |
Rroff
The Xenodus Initiative. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
71
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 17:03:00 -
[92] - Quote
I haven't read most of the posts on bounties, so someone might have covered this but it seems to me one of the biggest issues with it is that there is no intermediate area between highsec and lowsec where people with bounties can be engaged without a full on concord response but without being so lawless people who don't want to PVP will avoid it entirely.
What they should have done is make it so that 0.5 space is more of a semi-lawless space where you can engage people for bounty hunting purposes but otherwise highsec rules still apply:
Muted concord response to bounty hunting - no megahits, longer response time, etc. you can get away without losing your ship to concord aslong as you don't jump to 0.6+ space while flagged for trying to collect a bounty (normal concord response in 0.6+) - able to dock after 15 minutes, etc.
Trying to collect a bounty will make it so anyone can shoot you.
Some protection from exploiting the system to just instantly put a bounty on someone you see in that space to make them engageable and cool down period after someone has been killed as a bounty too often.
Most people will have to pass through 0.5 space at some point, this might make things a little more complicated for some players but I think it would enhance the game overall aslong as some balance is made between being able to still use 0.5 space aslong as you keep your wits about you but always the chance of being killed for the bounty on you.
EDIT: May not be the best thread for this post but its kind of difficult wading through each one on the subject trying to find the best one. |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
417
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 17:11:00 -
[93] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote: One billion is no more meaningful a bounty as 100k in high sec.
This isn't true at all tbh, a 1 bil bounty is 200 mil added to the profit from killing the guy in a 1 bil ship. In the case of a freighter for example thats 400 mil less he can carry without becoming a profitable target. In the case of a pimp misison runner he is 200 mil a tastier target in his machariel. The 100k bounty on the other hand doesn't even cover a gankers ammo costs.
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
617
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 17:19:00 -
[94] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote: The mining buff, and removal of profitable miner ganks, made an already large gap in the profitability of industry between null and high sec even larger. Mining in high sec, and not getting blown up has a real effect on the game.
More mining in hi sec reduces hi sec minerals value and this promotes high ends sales. Just saying. You only lose if you mined ice in null sec, which I don't think many are dumb enough to do. Further to your post, I have yet to see a null sec player recognize that one of the biggest demand drivers in the game for trit and pyerite is the enormous supercap manufacturing industry, all of which is based in null sec, purely for the benefit of null sec players. Thanks for this incredible insight. You have just revolutionised everyone's perspective with this amazing bit of economic analysis.
It's wrong.
Supercap production does NOT consume the majority of trit and pyr in the GAME. It may consume the majority of trit and pyr that is mined overall in null, but not the entire game.
And there are million upon millions of items built in high sec that consume far more trit and pyr combined then does all of the super cap production.
A few thousand ships (possibly, maybe less.) does not consume more low ends then all of the high sec production.
There are only a few minerals you can not get in high sec, and these are used rarely. The bulk of all minerals that is consumed in manufacturing can be got entirely in high sec.
The rarity of higher end ores in high sec is offeset by the more people that are able to mine there. The safer it gets, the fewer miners that get blown up, and the more volume that is mined, the lower prices will go on minerals that are primarilly abundant in null.
CCP's data showed that at the same time that high sec mining increased, high end minerals saw a drop in price; this is not a coincidence. The lower those prices get, the less worthwhile it is to mine for them over scordite in high sec.
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
617
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 17:20:00 -
[95] - Quote
Doddy wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote: One billion is no more meaningful a bounty as 100k in high sec.
This isn't true at all tbh, a 1 bil bounty is 200 mil added to the profit from killing the guy in a 1 bil ship. In the case of a freighter for example thats 400 mil less he can carry without becoming a profitable target. In the case of a pimp misison runner he is 200 mil a tastier target in his machariel. The 100k bounty on the other hand doesn't even cover a gankers ammo costs.
Best case scenarios are never representative of overal impact.
Edit: You can make a profit blowing up frieghters without the bounty. It's not much different than saying the bounties will encourage more peopel to shoot each other in low and null. They're already shooting each other, the bounty is a bonus, not the reason.
It may help tip the scale in some frieghter ganks, but that's still a best case scenario and won't represent the bounty system overal.
A guy with a 15b bounty in a merlin is no more worth shooting than the guy with a 50m bounty in a merlin. The 15b bounty guy should, and not because you can shoot him for longer, in most cases you're only going to get to do it once.
The only people who are going to hunt down were that guys clone ends up either have a personal vendetta against the guy -and probably donsn't care about the bounty anyways-, or someone that really just wants to antagonize the guy.
And then it relies upon the guy to be dumb enough to keep undocking. |
Johnny Jinks
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 19:40:00 -
[96] - Quote
Should have made the payout a percentage of the actual bounty pool. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
623
|
Posted - 2012.12.09 19:51:00 -
[97] - Quote
Johnny Jinks wrote:
Should have made the payout a percentage of the actual bounty pool.
Would be easy to turn a profit.
Get blown up in a shuttle untill the pool is empty.
The way they do the payout makes sense, I personally think it's the best solution. It just doesn't encourage people to shoot people with larger bounties.
I don't see a couple of percent over 20 for people having higher bounties as being impossible to balance.
The entire thing could even be on a curve, so that the higher the number one guy goes, the higher a bounty needs to be to modify payout percentage.
|
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
293
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 00:23:00 -
[98] - Quote
Tao Shaile wrote:Corp Member today helped a guy in HELP Channel and the noob gave him a "WANTED" tag.
The whole criminal tag **** and also changes to the war system let me rethink about subscription renewals.
All the patches and new updates make no sense, if they make no sense.
Are CCP developers payed buy doing useless stuff?
Thanks god it is not my company. In the US they would fire you for such crap.
Either stop posting or use a better translator. Thanks. Fly Minmatar Air --- "Trust in the Rust!" |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
367
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 00:32:00 -
[99] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:CCP Soundwave wrote:
I disagree, it has a much bigger impact. If you had a single bounty on you, you'd be out of the fire easily. If you have a big bounty on you, you'll be hunted for a long time.
I do agree. But at some point, whether it be several billion or several hundred million or few billion, that number kind of loses it's merits. I expect to see guys with bounties high enough to be considered permenant, I don't expect those guys to be the dudes flying a titan. I am on-board with your original post, but I disagree that the titan pilot wouldn't want to log in w/a big price on his head. In fact, the titan pilot is exactly the guy or gal who could be the most likely to be in-space with a big bounty. Most titan pilots I know work very hard to keep both their ship and capsule intact and alive. If their ship is lost and capsule bubbled, what happens next is inevitable with or without bounty.
+++++++ I have never shed a tear for a fellow EVE player until now. Mark GÇ£SeleeneGÇ¥ Heard's Blog Honoring Sean "Vile Rat" Smith. |
Piugattuk
Lima beans Corp
113
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 03:24:00 -
[100] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Rather than making blanket statements about high sec dwellers and assuming your conclusion is the only correct one, try remembering something else. If payouts increased dependant on the size of the bounty pool, the system would be hilariously open to abuse by large alliances with a penchant for bending/abusing the rules, or those with an excess of real life cash to spend.
Do you want EVE to be pay to win?
Personally I'd rather people had to make some kind of effort at least some of the time.
But it's a "blanket" issue. It works how it works so that you can't profit from it in high sec. It's not a conspiracy. In fact, I'm confident enough to say that I don't think a Dev would tell me I'm wrong. I believe whole heartedly that they would indeed say that it's designed around the 20% payout because it prevents bounties in high sec from being used to make ganking profitable. If you made it profitable, it would happen more, and they've been pretty clear that they fully intended for the new bounty system to NOT cause more ganking. Now call me nutty, but all that is directly related to only one area of the game, high sec. I'm saying, I disagree with that. It should be able to be used to make a profit, explicitly so that it can encourage a gank. The mining buff impacted the game, and not a little bit. CCP varified it. The bounty system could have been the tool to counter AFK and bot mining in high sec.
Your a weenie, people still gank exhumers and barges, the HP/EHP is not so great except a skiff or procurer, it doesn't take much to kill a hulk or covetor, retriever as well, a mack take a little more but it can be done and the possible salvage from exhumer can make it profitable, have you flown a procure? Yeah great tank but ore hold is not fit for an AFK'er now retriever or a mack, now your talking, but alias that tank is not so tough, if CCP spots bots shouldn't they do something? But AFK come off it already, the retriever can be killed by farting on it. Besides you know life happens so some times AFK is something that is just that, there is no pause button here in eve.
|
|
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
318
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 03:37:00 -
[101] - Quote
Piugattuk wrote: the retriever can be killed by farting on it.
Lately, I farted on a retriever with a damage control. He was the only one who came back to his wife and kids that day. |
VLAD DRACU
Inflamed Crusty Unit
16
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 10:21:00 -
[102] - Quote
Yeah current bounty system is again for bragging rights allthough you can't shoot you with an alt anymore to claim bounty thats the only improvement.
I whised they would have combined the bounty system with killrights.
Someone killed you sell your killright with bounty payement in a seprate marketplace.
Now we have 2 seperate things that would have been powerfull if it was combined and if it was combined it would have been a viable new profession.
my 2 cents
|
Cyber SGB
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 11:42:00 -
[103] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote: CCP's data showed that at the same time that high sec mining increased, high end minerals saw a drop in price; this is not a coincidence. The lower those prices get, the less worthwhile it is to mine for them over scordite in high sec.
Here we have the entire reason of this rant full of strawmen. Nullbears do not want High sec players making any isk. They want all the isk to themselves. They are mad because they wanted ganking to become extremely rampant in High sec.
It is all about making their Null sec more profitable while making High sec less profitable.
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 11:57:00 -
[104] - Quote
Cyber SGB wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote: CCP's data showed that at the same time that high sec mining increased, high end minerals saw a drop in price; this is not a coincidence. The lower those prices get, the less worthwhile it is to mine for them over scordite in high sec.
Here we have the entire reason of this rant full of strawmen. Nullbears do not want High sec players making any isk. They want all the isk to themselves. They are mad because they wanted ganking to become extremely rampant in High sec. It is all about making their Null sec more profitable while making High sec less profitable. I feel I deserve a higher quality of troll, thank you. |
Tiberius StarGazer
The Destined
248
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 11:59:00 -
[105] - Quote
I dunno, someone made about 40m off of me in bounty Sat |
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
83
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 12:02:00 -
[106] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:Not to mention the value in being able to remove AFK miners and bots from the game.
Who knew buffing the barges would lead to more AFK and bot mining in high sec.
It is good see that you still retain the dedication & commitment it takes to sit and stare, eyes glued to your screen, through every last three minute mining cycle. I envision you clamped down at your keyboard as your mining lasers do their work, ever vigilant, scanning local every three seconds, not bothering to check e-mail, surf the web, eat food, drink liquids or even use the bathroom for entire duration of your mining expedition. It brings a tear to my eye to see that some people understand what an exciting, action-packed and nerve-standing activity hi-sec mining can be and truly enjoys every long, drawn out second of listening to those lasers as they drone away for hours on end. You, good Sir, are a shining example to proper miner behavior everywhere.
EvE Forum Bingo |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 12:04:00 -
[107] - Quote
Tiberius StarGazer wrote:I dunno, someone made about 40m off of me in bounty Sat That doesn't say a lot.
You're in a Real corp, person could be at war with you. You could have been in low or null. Other guy could have lost 200m in the process.
It doesn't even mean you were even hunted specifically for your bounty. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
644
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 12:06:00 -
[108] - Quote
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:Natsett Amuinn wrote:Not to mention the value in being able to remove AFK miners and bots from the game.
Who knew buffing the barges would lead to more AFK and bot mining in high sec. It is good see that you still retain the dedication & commitment it takes to sit and stare, eyes glued to your screen, through every last three minute mining cycle. I envision you clamped down at your keyboard as your mining lasers do their work, ever vigilant, scanning local every three seconds, not bothering to check e-mail, surf the web, eat food, drink liquids or even use the bathroom for entire duration of your mining expedition. It brings a tear to my eye to see that some people understand what an exciting, action-packed and nerve-standing activity hi-sec mining can be and truly enjoys every long, drawn out second of listening to those lasers as they drone away for hours on end. You, good Sir, are a shining example to proper miner behavior everywhere. When I did mine, yes, I was ay my computer.
If its to dull to pay attention to, do like I did, stop. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1642
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 12:25:00 -
[109] - Quote
tbh i'm still waiting for some goons to manipulate the price of some obscure item and claim their own bounties at a profit COME AT ME BRO
I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
645
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 13:40:00 -
[110] - Quote
Updated the OP with a quote from a Dev, if anyone is actually following this. |
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
645
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 13:43:00 -
[111] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:tbh i'm still waiting for some goons to manipulate the price of some obscure item and claim their own bounties at a profit I have a feeling the only way this will be possible is if someone gives you all of the stuff you would destroy for free, or you're able to find a bunch of stuff that is selling very far below it's est. value.
If it is possible, I don't think it'll be due to an exploit, but player stupidity. |
Thomas Gore
Universal Freelance CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS
23
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 13:51:00 -
[112] - Quote
The answer is WIS. We need to be able to walk into his CQ and pop his ass with a pistol.
|
Sentamon
344
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 14:03:00 -
[113] - Quote
The problem here is the Top 10 List.
The expansion was correctly called Retribution, because this is what the bounty system was meant to be about, retribution, not some scoring system that will be rigged no matter how you try to fix it. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
645
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 14:06:00 -
[114] - Quote
Sentamon wrote:The problem here is the Top 10 List.
The expansion was correctly called Retribution, because this is what the bounty system was meant to be about, retribution, not some scoring system that will be rigged no matter how you try to fix it.
A percentage modifier for those people that are in the top 10 should help to ensure that people are putting the larger bouties on people who actually fly a ship in space, and lead to some level of cooridinated bounty placement by groups to ensure they make the target they want shot enticing enough to shoot by moving them up. |
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
85
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 14:35:00 -
[115] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:tbh i'm still waiting for some goons to manipulate the price of some obscure item and claim their own bounties at a profit
If it can be done then yes, you can count on it.
A little bit of outside information for those still unaware of this. Goonswarm is not exclusive to EvE; only the "swarm" part is. The "Goons" are, as many already know, a organization within the SomethingAwful community. What you may not have known is that EvE is not the only game they play, past, present or future. There have been other games before EvE that the SomethingAwful people have sicked the Goons upon. The end result is invariably frustrated developers, massive player exodus and sometimes even the demise of the game itself entirely.
That is, by the way, the goal. The Goons don't play online games - they break them. Through any opening left in the design they will sweep in with their massive numbers and set themselves up with a guild, tribe, clan, alliance, or what have you. Working together like army ants they will then systematically ruin the entire game for as many other people as they can. Depending on the integrity of the game's design, that can be a just a few people or absolutely everyone. If it is just a few people then they will lose interest and move on, but the more pain, grief and misery they can inflict upon the rest of the players then the more enthusiastic they will become about their activities.
Needless to say, EvE's potential for griefing, scamming, ganking and tears makes it pretty darn close to the Goons' idea of paradise on earth. But do not think that makes them deviate from their original mission. They have discipline.
To put it bluntly, the only reason anyone in EvE can actually still undock anywhere and/or anytime without instantly being ganked by a Goon blob is simply a factor of game mechanics, map size & manpower. It does not stem from any lack of desire. Had they the numbers, or the map being smaller, they would burn this entire game to the ground until every last non-Goon in the game unsubscribed in anger & frustration. And once that was done they would laugh, high-five each other, and move on to another game the day after CCP announced that they were going out of business. P+¬tursson's desk plaque goes on the Mittani's mantel as his greatest trophy ever.
Mission accomplished.
The high point of this comedy is, naturally, when CSMs come into the picture and they, in turn, allow for game mechanics to get changed around to their liking.
Vast conspiracy? No, not at all. There is no conspiracy. A conspiracy implies secrets and deception. Goons wear their agenda on their sleeves with pride. Anyone who does not know what their raison d'etre is already simply has not bothered to ask. Plot? There is no plot. Plots imply secrecy. Their plan is secret to no one. Their agenda is about as veiled & secret as a billboard in Las Vegas. That is part of their power-trip: That it does not matter if you know what they are up to because you will still be powerless to stop them.
And they're right.
EvE Forum Bingo |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
645
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 14:41:00 -
[116] - Quote
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:Skippermonkey wrote:tbh i'm still waiting for some goons to manipulate the price of some obscure item and claim their own bounties at a profit If it can be done then yes, you can count on it. A little bit of outside information for those still unaware of this. Goonswarm is not exclusive to EvE; only the "swarm" part is. The "Goons" are, as many already know, a organization within the SomethingAwful community. What you may not have known is that EvE is not the only game they play, past, present or future. There have been other games before EvE that the SomethingAwful people have sicked the Goons upon. The end result is invariably frustrated developers, massive player exodus and sometimes even the demise of the game itself entirely. That is, by the way, the goal. The Goons don't play online games - they break them. Through any opening left in the design they will sweep in with their massive numbers and set themselves up with a guild, tribe, clan, alliance, or what have you. Working together like army ants they will then systematically ruin the entire game for as many other people as they can. Depending on the integrity of the game's design, that can be a just a few people or absolutely everyone. If it is just a few people then they will lose interest and move on, but the more pain, grief and misery they can inflict upon the rest of the players then the more enthusiastic they will become about their activities. Needless to say, EvE's potential for griefing, scamming, ganking and tears makes it pretty darn close to the Goons' idea of paradise on earth. But do not think that makes them deviate from their original mission. They have discipline. To put it bluntly, the only reason anyone in EvE can actually still undock anywhere and/or anytime without instantly being ganked by a Goon blob is simply a factor of game mechanics, map size & manpower. It does not stem from any lack of desire. Had they the numbers, or the map being smaller, they would burn this entire game to the ground until every last non-Goon in the game unsubscribed in anger & frustration. And once that was done they would laugh, high-five each other, and move on to another game the day after CCP announced that they were going out of business. P+¬tursson's desk plaque goes on the Mittani's mantel as his greatest trophy ever. Mission accomplished.The high point of this comedy is, naturally, when CSMs come into the picture and they, in turn, allow for game mechanics to get changed around to their liking. Vast conspiracy? No, not at all. There is no conspiracy. A conspiracy implies secrets and deception. Goons wear their agenda on their sleeves with pride. Anyone who does not know what their raison d'etre is already simply has not bothered to ask. Plot? There is no plot. Plots imply secrecy. Their plan is secret to no one. Their agenda is about as veiled & secret as a billboard in Las Vegas. That is part of their power-trip: That it does not matter if you know what they are up to because you will still be powerless to stop them. And they're right. Sir,
EVE is the only MMO that I've ever "been a goon in", it's not the only MMO that I've played with "goons" in it though. One such MMO has millions of people playing it, and I remember running around PvPing against a "goons" guild.
And something awful isn't the largest gaming community you could join.
And yes, it's a vast conspiracy you posted. Thank you though for being more worried about he corp I'm a member of, as apposed to the content of the thread. |
Domi Naytrix
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 16:19:00 -
[117] - Quote
Im pretty much new around here, but wouldnt a better bounty system be one that a person requests a bounty hunter mission and they are given a random person with a bounty on their head? Say you talk to a bounty mission guy, and ask for one of the hardest targets around (as determined by player SP/bounty). The mission giver gives you a target, and for say a month or so, you have free reign to attack this person whereever they are, until either you kill them or they kill you.
Should the bounty hunter lose, the bounty remains but the ability to freely attack is removed. Make it so that multiple people when picking up bounties can end up with the same person, so it is a bit of a race to see who can claim the bounty first. Should the target be eliminated, all other hunters are informed and must get a new bounty.
This makes a true bounty hunter profession, makes it harder for people with bounties to claim on an alt(might have to put a timer on how often people can get a mission to prevent dropping missions until they get their own), allows bounty hunters legality in obtaining their mark no matter where they hide, and also keeps the system somewhat random in terms of who is out to get me if I have a bounty on my head. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
649
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 16:30:00 -
[118] - Quote
Domi Naytrix wrote:Im pretty much new around here, but wouldnt a better bounty system be one that a person requests a bounty hunter mission and they are given a random person with a bounty on their head? Say you talk to a bounty mission guy, and ask for one of the hardest targets around (as determined by player SP/bounty). The mission giver gives you a target, and for say a month or so, you have free reign to attack this person whereever they are, until either you kill them or they kill you.
Should the bounty hunter lose, the bounty remains but the ability to freely attack is removed. Make it so that multiple people when picking up bounties can end up with the same person, so it is a bit of a race to see who can claim the bounty first. Should the target be eliminated, all other hunters are informed and must get a new bounty.
This makes a true bounty hunter profession, makes it harder for people with bounties to claim on an alt(might have to put a timer on how often people can get a mission to prevent dropping missions until they get their own), allows bounty hunters legality in obtaining their mark no matter where they hide, and also keeps the system somewhat random in terms of who is out to get me if I have a bounty on my head. That's effectively what we have, except that the "mission" is generated by the players instead of an NPC designated to hand out bounty missions.
And having NPC's randomly assign a killright on someone just means that all the gankers become "bounty hunters" instead of gankers.
A true bounty hunter is someone that is using the locator agents to find worthwhile targets. The tools to allow for the bounty hunter proffession exist, the system doesn't encourage them to hunt the largest bounties though.
Having 14b on your head doesn't really make you more wanted than somene with a billion, you're both going to end up paying the hunter just as much if they blow you up. There's no encouragement or reason to actively hunt the most wanted individuals in EVE when the guys in the middle of the list are just as worthwhile targets as the guys at the top.
Being able to kill them more isn't an incentive to hunt them. There's no reason to spend time flying arund to find where that guys clone went, and then camp that station in the off chance they might actualy undock. Just move on the next hundred million bounty and get your 20%.
|
Ginger Barbarella
State War Academy Caldari State
293
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 16:33:00 -
[119] - Quote
Thomas Gore wrote:The answer is WIS. We need to be able to walk into his CQ and pop his ass with a pistol.
Professional help should be in the yellow pages under "Psychiatrist". Look into it. Fly Minmatar Air --- "Trust in the Rust!" |
Luc Chastot
Moira. Villore Accords
104
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 16:41:00 -
[120] - Quote
Most wanted targets should give better payouts, something like #10 +1%, #9 +2%, #8 +3% etc. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
|
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
102
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 17:01:00 -
[121] - Quote
Domi Naytrix wrote:The mission giver gives you a target, and for say a month or so, you have free reign to attack this person whereever they are, until either you kill them or they kill you.
People put bounties on carebears. You get assigned a mission to kill said careber. Carebear goes boom. Carebears quit by the tens of thousands. CCP makes whatever change is necessary to stop carebears from leaving the game, so undo this mechanism in them getting blown up often through no action of their own.
The current system is designed to make it unprofitable to blowup most carebears, so that carbears don't go boom too often, so that carebears will keep making real world money for CCP. You can't mess with that! |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
649
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 17:03:00 -
[122] - Quote
LHA Tarawa wrote:Domi Naytrix wrote:The mission giver gives you a target, and for say a month or so, you have free reign to attack this person whereever they are, until either you kill them or they kill you.
People put bounties on carebears. You get assigned a mission to kill said careber. Carebear goes boom. Carebears quit by the tens of thousands. CCP makes whatever change is necessary to stop carebears from leaving the game, so undo this mechanism by which they can gt blown up through no action of their own. The idea was silly, obviously, but so was what you wrote.
Everyone can be blown up through no action of their own. I'm sure you didn't really mean it that way, but it was a poor way to phrase it. |
LHA Tarawa
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
102
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 17:07:00 -
[123] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:LHA Tarawa wrote:Domi Naytrix wrote:The mission giver gives you a target, and for say a month or so, you have free reign to attack this person whereever they are, until either you kill them or they kill you.
People put bounties on carebears. You get assigned a mission to kill said careber. Carebear goes boom. Carebears quit by the tens of thousands. CCP makes whatever change is necessary to stop carebears from leaving the game, so undo this mechanism by which they can gt blown up through no action of their own. The idea was silly, obviously, but so was what you wrote. Everyone can be blown up through no action of their own. I'm sure you didn't really mean it that way, but it was a poor way to phrase it.
Yeah. I realized that and was already working on an edit when you posted this.
It is the probability and frequency with which carebears go boom that determines whether they keep playing or not.
The only time I've been suicide ganked was when I was noob and was hauling a CRUD ton of expensive salvage in a tier one industrial that was gankable by a single destroyer.
I'd say hauling a high priced cargo in an easily gankable ship was "an action of my own" that resulted in the suicide gank. I made it profitable for someone to suicide gank me..
|
La Volpe DaFlorence
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 18:45:00 -
[124] - Quote
As it stands, the bounty system seems to have only one use. Annoying people, and getting a awesome subtitle on your portrait. And apparently some people dislike having a bounty so much that when I put a 100k bounty on someone, they put a 1 billion ISK bounty on me in return. |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
658
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 18:47:00 -
[125] - Quote
La Volpe DaFlorence wrote:As it stands, the bounty system seems to have only one use. Annoying people, and getting a awesome subtitle on your portrait. And apparently some people dislike having a bounty so much that when I put a 100k bounty on someone, they put a 1 billion ISK bounty on me in return. Nice.
BTW, you fogot to put your face on this morning. |
La Volpe DaFlorence
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 18:49:00 -
[126] - Quote
Natsett Amuinn wrote:La Volpe DaFlorence wrote:As it stands, the bounty system seems to have only one use. Annoying people, and getting a awesome subtitle on your portrait. And apparently some people dislike having a bounty so much that when I put a 100k bounty on someone, they put a 1 billion ISK bounty on me in return. Nice. BTW, you fogot to put your face on this morning.
Well, I won a bet with my friend that someone would notice it. BaconFace, Scourge of the High Galaxy Seas, at your service.
|
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
85
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 20:38:00 -
[127] - Quote
Luc Chastot wrote:Most wanted targets should give better payouts, something like #10 +1%, #9 +2%, #8 +3% etc.
You may actually be on to something, albeit with a different angle.
Some have complained that the new bounty system makes no difference between placing a bounty on someone with a +5.0 security rating and a -10.0 standing. They would rather see CCP place restrictions on placing bounties based off of security status. Naturally, the anarchists object.
However... what if they did this instead:
Keep the current "free bounties" rules but place collection amounts based on standings? If a ship is destroyed in non-Empire space then the percentage of payout can then be directly modified by the target's CONCORD standing. Someone with a perfect +5.0 rating, for instance, would pay out only a bare minimum - a maximum of 10% of the bounty pool. Whereas someone with a -10.0 rating would pay out a larger block - a maximum of, say, 50% of the bounty pool.
Meanwhile, in Empire space, instead of CONCORD rating it would use the actual faction standing appropriate to where the kill took place. Meaning that let's say you have a target with a -3.0 CONCORD rating, but you catch them in lowsec Empire space and their reputation with that Empire is actually very good, say +4.5 or so. Because of this, local "bookies" are going to be more reluctant to pay out on someone whom the locals actually like, so the payout would be very low. In converse, if someone with a high +3.0 in CONCORD was traveling through a section of Empire space where they were not welcome (-2.5 local standing, for example) then the bounty hunter would collect a larger amount than their CONCORD rating would suggest because the local government was glad to see their ship removed from their space.
This, I believe, would be a balanced compromise between the desires of the anarchists and those whom wish to see actual casus belli rules brought back. You could still bounty someone to insane levels, but if they're a perfect +5.0 citizen who never leaves their own chunk of hisec then there will be little reward for attacking them. Hardened criminals and FW types who wander to the wrong side of the fence will be far more lucrative targets, as you would collect a greater portion of their bounty pool if you catch them at the right place and time. EvE Forum Bingo |
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
662
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 20:48:00 -
[128] - Quote
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:Luc Chastot wrote:Most wanted targets should give better payouts, something like #10 +1%, #9 +2%, #8 +3% etc. You may actually be on to something, albeit with a different angle. Some have complained that the new bounty system makes no difference between placing a bounty on someone with a +5.0 security rating and a -10.0 standing. They would rather see CCP place restrictions on placing bounties based off of security status. Naturally, the anarchists object. However... what if they did this instead: Keep the current "free bounties" rules but place collection amounts based on standings? If a ship is destroyed in non-Empire space then the percentage of payout can then be directly modified by the target's CONCORD standing. Someone with a perfect +5.0 rating, for instance, would pay out only a bare minimum - a maximum of 10% of the bounty pool. Whereas someone with a -10.0 rating would pay out a larger block - a maximum of, say, 50% of the bounty pool. Meanwhile, in Empire space, instead of CONCORD rating it would use the actual faction standing appropriate to where the kill took place. Meaning that let's say you have a target with a -3.0 CONCORD rating, but you catch them in lowsec Empire space and their reputation with that Empire is actually very good, say +4.5 or so. Because of this, local "bookies" are going to be more reluctant to pay out on someone whom the locals actually like, so the payout would be very low. In converse, if someone with a high +3.0 in CONCORD was traveling through a section of Empire space where they were not welcome (-2.5 local standing, for example) then the bounty hunter would collect a larger amount than their CONCORD rating would suggest because the local government was glad to see their ship removed from their space. This, I believe, would be a balanced compromise between the desires of the anarchists and those whom wish to see actual casus belli rules brought back. So you could still bounty someone to the moon, but if they're a perfect +5.0 citizen who never leaves their own chunk of hisec then there will be little reward for attacking them. Hardened criminal however and FW types who wander to the wrong side of the fence will be more lucrative targets, as you will collect a greater portion of their bounty pool if you catch them at the right place and time. Your sec status doesn't have anything to do with bounty, and therefore shouldn't have anything to do with the payout.
It certainly shouldn't be impacted in anyway based on where you get blown up. You're not any less a target in high sec than low sec or null, there's simply consequence for blwoing someone up in high sec, and again that has nothing to do with standing.
If you fly in high sec, and you're the most wanted person in EVE, people should be willing to shoot you in high sec. High sec and it's associated mechanics shouldn't be there to protect you because you have a 10 billion isk bounty. Criminal or not, if you're one of the most wanted individuals in EVE, you should be enticing to shoot regardless of where you're at; high sec shouldn't matter at that point.
And yes, I do think that as the most wanted person in EVE you should be profitable to a bounty hunter in high sec, even if they have to suicide gank you.
If it's possible, the bounty system should work like freighter ganking in high sec. it's profitable for me to blow you up, but not to blow yourself up. At least where it concern the most wanted individuals. High sec should not be your sefety net if you are number 1 through 10.
Staying docked should be your only means of safety. |
La Volpe DaFlorence
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.12.10 20:56:00 -
[129] - Quote
Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:Luc Chastot wrote:Most wanted targets should give better payouts, something like #10 +1%, #9 +2%, #8 +3% etc. You may actually be on to something, albeit with a different angle. Some have complained that the new bounty system makes no difference between placing a bounty on someone with a +5.0 security rating and a -10.0 standing. They would rather see CCP place restrictions on placing bounties based off of security status. Naturally, the anarchists object. However... what if they did this instead: Keep the current "free bounties" rules but place collection amounts based on standings? If a ship is destroyed in non-Empire space then the percentage of payout can then be directly modified by the target's CONCORD standing. Someone with a perfect +5.0 rating, for instance, would pay out only a bare minimum - a maximum of 10% of the bounty pool. Whereas someone with a -10.0 rating would pay out a larger block - a maximum of, say, 50% of the bounty pool. Meanwhile, in Empire space, instead of CONCORD rating it would use the actual faction standing appropriate to where the kill took place. Meaning that let's say you have a target with a -3.0 CONCORD rating, but you catch them in lowsec Empire space and their reputation with that Empire is actually very good, say +4.5 or so. Because of this, local "bookies" are going to be more reluctant to pay out on someone whom the locals actually like, so the payout would be very low. In converse, if someone with a high +3.0 in CONCORD was traveling through a section of Empire space where they were not welcome (-2.5 local standing, for example) then the bounty hunter would collect a larger amount than their CONCORD rating would suggest because the local government was glad to see their ship removed from their space. This, I believe, would be a balanced compromise between the desires of the anarchists and those whom wish to see actual casus belli rules brought back. You could still bounty someone to insane levels, but if they're a perfect +5.0 citizen who never leaves their own chunk of hisec then there will be little reward for attacking them. Hardened criminals and FW types who wander to the wrong side of the fence will be far more lucrative targets, as you would collect a greater portion of their bounty pool if you catch them at the right place and time.
That could definitely work, and work well.
I like it. |
Frying Doom
Zat's Affiliated Traders
1000
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 07:26:00 -
[130] - Quote
I had a different idea of not tying it to what the person is flying al all
Maybe they need to change the way bounty payouts work completely.
For example any kill of ship or pod gives you 1/100th of the bounty, for each bounty. Not payable to Alts, corp or alliance members or characters yourself, corp or alliance has set to blue.
so for example I put a 50 million bounty on you, someone kills you giving then 500k and 99kills left on that bounty.
then someone else chucks a 10 billion bounty on you. The next time you are killed your first bounty drops another 500k, and the new bounty drops 100million and drops to 99 deaths left. While the ganker gets 100,500,000 isk for your death ect.. ect..
This would require a max number of bounties on a character so I would say 500(I am sure the database guys could give a better figure depending on current load) and increase the minimum bounty amount to prevent filling the slots with spam minimum amounts.
This way it would be worth killing players and it is hard to profit by for the person with the bounty. They can profit using a 3rd party but only 1/100th of the amount per kill, so would take a while to be worth the hassle while making bounties into an entire profession in EvE. Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge.
|
|
La Volpe DaFlorence
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 18:13:00 -
[131] - Quote
La Volpe DaFlorence wrote:Lady Katherine Devonshire wrote:Luc Chastot wrote:Most wanted targets should give better payouts, something like #10 +1%, #9 +2%, #8 +3% etc. You may actually be on to something, albeit with a different angle. Some have complained that the new bounty system makes no difference between placing a bounty on someone with a +5.0 security rating and a -10.0 standing. They would rather see CCP place restrictions on placing bounties based off of security status. Naturally, the anarchists object. However... what if they did this instead: Keep the current "free bounties" rules but place collection amounts based on standings? If a ship is destroyed in non-Empire space then the percentage of payout can then be directly modified by the target's CONCORD standing. Someone with a perfect +5.0 rating, for instance, would pay out only a bare minimum - a maximum of 10% of the bounty pool. Whereas someone with a -10.0 rating would pay out a larger block - a maximum of, say, 50% of the bounty pool. Meanwhile, in Empire space, instead of CONCORD rating it would use the actual faction standing appropriate to where the kill took place. Meaning that let's say you have a target with a -3.0 CONCORD rating, but you catch them in lowsec Empire space and their reputation with that Empire is actually very good, say +4.5 or so. Because of this, local "bookies" are going to be more reluctant to pay out on someone whom the locals actually like, so the payout would be very low. In converse, if someone with a high +3.0 in CONCORD was traveling through a section of Empire space where they were not welcome (-2.5 local standing, for example) then the bounty hunter would collect a larger amount than their CONCORD rating would suggest because the local government was glad to see their ship removed from their space. This, I believe, would be a balanced compromise between the desires of the anarchists and those whom wish to see actual casus belli rules brought back. You could still bounty someone to insane levels, but if they're a perfect +5.0 citizen who never leaves their own chunk of hisec then there will be little reward for attacking them. Hardened criminals and FW types who wander to the wrong side of the fence will be far more lucrative targets, as you would collect a greater portion of their bounty pool if you catch them at the right place and time. That could definitely work, and work well. I like it.
JUST INTERRUPTING
THEY FIXED BACONFACE. Damnit.
And standings should DEFINITELY affect bounty payouts.
|
Natsett Amuinn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
676
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 18:21:00 -
[132] - Quote
Sec standing shouldn't have any impact on bounty payout.
Your sec status has nothing to do with a bounty, and a bounty has nothing to do with your sec standing. it was one of the issues CCP addressed with the system.
Bounties aren't related to law and order, even if they are used to catch a criminal. They're also used for people who are not criminals.
And I wasn't asking for an increase on payouts on everyone, just for the top bounties to pay more so that they're more enticing to actually hunt.
SoniClover already stated that they intend to do such a thing, they just didn't have the time to get it in before the 4th. There's no need to modify payouts in any other regard. |
BoBoZoBo
MGroup9 Quantum Cafe
124
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 18:56:00 -
[133] - Quote
It does not matter until you blow him up in a 3 billion ISk faction Setup. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 :: [one page] |