Because many moons ago several small alliances rebelled against the big alliances and claimed they where ruining the game.
And now those small alliances have become the very thing they where fighting against.

NAP's and Huge alliances can't help but stabilize null into the sleep fest it is today.


SOV needs to be moved down to the Corporation Level so that anarchy, back stabbing and civil war can return to EVE.

Because many moons ago several small alliances rebelled against the big alliances and claimed they where ruining the game.
And now those small alliances have become the very thing they where fighting against.

NAP's and Huge alliances can't help but stabilize null into the sleep fest it is today.


SOV needs to be moved down to the Corporation Level so that anarchy, back stabbing and civil war can return to EVE.

Won't they just make coalitions exactly like alliances do now?

Yes and no.
My main issue with SOV is the the Alliance holding Corps.
Right now if I don't like a corporation in my alliance I kick them out and any station they held basically loses SOV.
That shouldn't happen it should be tied to the corporation that controls it.
There is a lot more to it but basically Null should be feudal.
Alliances should be true alliances if a corp leaves the alliance and joins another they should keep there sov.
If you want there station or system you have to take it just not kick them out.
YEs I want to see a civil war in an alliance I want anarchy or the closest thing to it which is a feudal system.
The controlling corp should be the name of the alliance and if power shifts because all the other standing corps decides to change it then guess what, it will change and a power struggle will happen.
That is what EVE is after all.

If we had system to system dial in warp like Star Trek or Star Wars it would be the end of the Great Wall of Carebear formed by the gank pipelines and intel channels and the end of safe nullsec.

Get rid of local too and it's the end of botting.


It would also be a crapstorm as gate camps are replaced by combat patrols and nullbears ragequit all over the forums.

Leet PVPers who sit on gates all day killing everything that moved 20 to 1 would have to adapt or die.

Micromanaging who gets the last shot on a structure when multiple alliances are involved is already annoying enough =/

Two words: "Dynamic sec status".
As you develop a system, the sec status slowly goes up, and the value of everything in it goes down.
That means a tech moon has a finite lifespan until the sec status of the system is too high to support a tech moon.

Conversely, a system that is empty with no activity slowly loses sec status, and the rats/moons/asteroids get more valuable.

Gone are the static blue alliances.
Hello nomadic groups constantly exploring and fighting over riches that ebb and flow depending on the activity level in that system.

Someday a 0.8 backwater might become a -1.0 trusec, and a -1.0 might become a 1.0

Great, now tweak it so that Jita will go to something like 0.4 please

Didn't you get the memo? Null-sec power bloc's all blued each other for the holidays and are spending the time killing red crosses to RMT enough isk to buy christmas presents.

If activity dropped off in a system, any system, enough, then yeah 1.0 would become eventually 0.4 or lower.
It would be extremely unlikely that a trade hub would become low sec or null, since they would self-perpetuate based on activity.

But you would have dynamic chokepoints, as 0.5 systems flipped to 0.4, and vice versa.
And all those empty tracks of systems in null would be filled with explorers looking for the freshest tech moons/rings to replace the ones petering out since a moon mining array would slowly raise the sec status of a system.

So your idea to get more people into 0.0 is to punish them for developing their territory? Because Sov space is just too good right now and that's what's keeping people from living there?

Or did I misunderstand and you want 0.0 to become completely uninhabited?

Why bother to engage in actual nullsec PvP when your killboards can look so awesome from highsec ganking? Those guys dont shoot back, and your not going to get a super-massive capital fleet titan bridged onto your face.

[

So your idea to get more people into 0.0 is to punish them for developing their territory? Because Sov space is just too good right now and that's what's keeping people from living there?

Or did I misunderstand and you want 0.0 to become completely uninhabited?

I see that Test has added another 1% growth this week, up to 10.500 members.
Goons are a paltry 8600 members.
Yeah, null sec alliances are just fading away right now.

What this would do is force null sec players to actively explore all of null sec on an ongoing basis.
And heavily industrialized zones are inherently more safe.

The U.S does not build its carriers and subs in Alaska. They build them in areas where it is safe.
You want to heavily industrialize / populate an area? No problem. Just expect that area to experience lower crime rates (less valuable rats), and lower availability of resources (less valuable ore and moon goo).

And just like asteroid belts, moons/ rings would naturally dissipate as the sec status went up.
Alliances that need moon goo to support themselves would have to actively explore for more of those precious resources.

Just like nations do today.

I am not saying that there is a finite amount of resources in the game.
I AM saying that as one supply of moon goo shrinks in a heavily industrialized space, another supply increases in some unknown, undeveloped area of low/null.

During the Cold War, Alaska was by far the most at-risk state in the entire united states, both by missile attack and actual invasion.

Because null doesn't have it's specialty and attractiveness: everything you can find in null happens elsewhere with more intensity (WH = ISK farm, low = PvP, hi-sec = human interactions).

In short, some alliances got mega rich with moon goo, which proved to be much more profitable and requiring less work then mining or ratting. With these riches they could easily set up ship replacement programs and drive out the smaller alliances in less profitable space who still relied mostly on mining or ratting.

Over the years living in null turned into being a mindless drone for these mega-alliances or at least sell yourself and your free time into a semi-slaved status, which in turn made living in null unacceptable for everyone whose brain was not completely rotten.

Fun fact: the most successful nullsec alliances do not require anything of members, and let them do as they please.

Yes and I have also seen how proud you are to the fact that your members act like junior-school-bullies to everyone else. Does it really surprise you that people don't even want to play with your type?

About success lets see it one example

Alliance A: Has secured early a region with lots of moon goo, could afford a few hundred supercapitals and is practically immune to damage.

Alliance B: Lives in a NPC region with lots of PvP activity and a few very good players but certainly not as rich as A

Alliance C: Lives in the more shallow Null regions without access to high end moon materials. Their playerbase has a smaller number PvPers and the majority of their players are people who mine and rat and only go PvP for fun once or twice a week.

What will happen is: B will declare C as weak carebears and start roaming gangs on a daily basis, place cloaked ships into their mining and ratting systems try anything to bring their activity to a halt. They are also less likely to attack A, since they are independent from mining and ratting as primary ISK-sources.

Then A with the constant pressure from within to keep their players entertained and find targets for their supercapitals will join the fight against C. From their point of view B has very few sovereignity structures which make them uninteresting for their capital fleet. C has some outposts, more POS and it is known that it can put up only limited resistance.

The final result: A and B are steamrolling C, some forum drama, even more threads of members of A and B how awesome they are. The space of C is taken by A and B. For the reasons mentions above both have very little interest to use that space and the members of C have scattered to the winds.

After a few month with fewer and fewer targets within their reach B also splits. Some of their players joining A others going into lowsec or different null regions.

End result: A has all the space it does not use or really want. B and C are gone. Repeat these things a few times all over null and you know why entire regions with lots of outposts

Yes and I have also seen how proud you are to the fact that your members act like junior-school-bullies to everyone else. Does it really surprise you that people don't even want to play with your type?

About success lets see it one example

Alliance A: Has secured early a region with lots of moon goo, could afford a few hundred supercapitals and is practically immune to damage.

Alliance B: Lives in a NPC region with lots of PvP activity and a few very good players but certainly not as rich as A

Alliance C: Lives in the more shallow Null regions without access to high end moon materials. Their playerbase has a smaller number PvPers and the majority of their players are people who mine and rat and only go PvP for fun once or twice a week.

What will happen is: B will declare C as weak carebears and start roaming gangs on a daily basis, place cloaked ships into their mining and ratting systems try anything to bring their activity to a halt. They are also less likely to attack A, since they are independent from mining and ratting as primary ISK-sources.

Then A with the constant pressure from within to keep their players entertained and find targets for their supercapitals will join the fight against C. From their point of view B has very few sovereignity structures which make them uninteresting for their capital fleet. C has some outposts, more POS and it is known that it can put up only limited resistance.

The final result: A and B are steamrolling C, some forum drama, even more threads of members of A and B how awesome they are. The space of C is taken by A and B. For the reasons mentions above both have very little interest to use that space and the members of C have scattered to the winds.

After a few month with fewer and fewer targets within their reach B also splits. Some of their players joining A others going into lowsec or different null regions.

End result: A has all the space it does not use or really want. B and C are gone. Repeat these things a few times all over null and you know why entire regions with lots of outposts have become empty wastelands.

Wat.

First off, no one ever wants to shoot structures. People in nullsec alliances generally want good fights, or gudfites as we call them. Alliance B and Alliance A would be constantly shooting at each other, because ratters and miners don't put up fun fights. For example, take a look at how much interest those alliances you consider to fall into category A show in category C space (places like Providence or the Drone Regions).

Alliances that fall into category B don't die, they are eternal harassment groups. Take a look at Pizza, as terrible as they are. They have fun shooting at groups that fall into Alliance A's category, do it exclusively, in dirt cheap ships, with no infrastructure to speak of. You can't kill that sort of alliance, they just do their thing and poke at the weaker elements of the group.

In reality, you have the big category A alliances brawling with each other, while smaller groups form up between battles to go have fun shooting at category B alliances, who are constantly doing the same to the category As, while the category Cs just sit around in their crappy space and occasionally have to deal with bored lowsec pilots who like easy kills.

If "harassment" really occurred on such a scale as you claim then I doubt people would be complaining about how empty and inactive null is.

We call that "survival of the fittest".

Great, now tweak it so that Jita will go to something like 0.4 please

I call it poor game design. 3 or 4 years ago a lot people were warning that this would eventually happen. About survival of the fittest, well it is more survival of the ones best adapted to this CCP created mess.

I call it poor game design. 3 or 4 years ago a lot people were warning that this would eventually happen. About survival of the fittest, well it is more survival of the ones best adapted to this CCP created mess.

Two words: "Dynamic sec status".

Stealth nerf hi-sec even more thread detected.

24. Off-topic posting is not allowed.

Off-topic posts are not prohibited but should be posted within reason. Excessive off-topic posts that derail a thread may result in the thread being locked.

I see that Test has added another 1% growth this week, up to 10.500 members.
Goons are a paltry 8600 members.
Yeah, null sec alliances are just fading away right now.

What this would do is force null sec players to actively explore all of null sec on an ongoing basis.
And heavily industrialized zones are inherently more safe.

The U.S does not build its carriers and subs in Alaska. They build them in areas where it is safe.
You want to heavily industrialize / populate an area? No problem. Just expect that area to experience lower crime rates (less valuable rats), and lower availability of resources (less valuable ore and moon goo).

And just like asteroid belts, moons/ rings would naturally dissipate as the sec status went up.
Alliances that need moon goo to support themselves would have to actively explore for more of those precious resources.

Just like nations do today.

I am not saying that there is a finite amount of resources in the game.
I AM saying that as one supply of moon goo shrinks in a heavily industrialized space, another supply increases in some unknown, undeveloped area of low/null.

Because everyone in nullsec is in highsec right now on their mission running and mining alts, and have been for years

So again, you're going from one contradictory talking point to another:

Is 0.0 a dull, safe blueland, peaceful and orderly, or is it a bleak, uninhabited Alaska?

Off topic, non EVE related posts removed as per rules:



Please stay on topic, thank you - ISD Type40.

Micromanaging who gets the last shot on a structure when multiple alliances are involved is already annoying enough =/

first world problems. next time don't bring 5 alliances? oh wait... you can't take **** without them.

first world problems. next time don't bring 5 alliances? oh wait... you can't take **** without them.

Making pvp more interesting and worth more might get things up and running in dull... i mean null land.

And no I have no idea how to do it cause I don't do pvp that much. It's not something I generaly like in this game

Probably because its more worthwhile, appropriate, advantageous, advisable, beneficial, convenient, desirable, effective, feasible, judicious, meet, opportune, practicable, practical, pragmatic, profitable, prudent, seasonable, suitable, tactical, timely, useful, utilitarian and wise to live in high sec.

After the technetium nerf there is nothing worth fighting for/over in 0.0

Nothing of value at all

Not to mention CCP just released the data that showed that the mining buff had an impact on the amount of afk and bot miners in high sec.

They cut the legs out from under null sec industry by driving down the value of some high end minerals.
CCP is breaking an already broken null industry, even more, by making it safer in high sec.

All the data clearly indicates that it is the high sec guys that are trying to break EVE, not us.
I'm sure we'll see 700k+ subs in a couple of months, and 70k concurent users on a regular basis, all because high sec got safer. nevermind how it hurts the rest of the game.

How exactly are highsec miners driving down the price of high end minerals? Do you think highsec miners get mercoxit / zydrine / megacyte?

Did no one read the CCP statistics I linked?

Probably because its more worthwhile, appropriate, advantageous, advisable, beneficial, convenient, desirable, effective, feasible, judicious, meet, opportune, practicable, practical, pragmatic, profitable, prudent, seasonable, suitable, tactical, timely, useful, utilitarian and wise to live in high sec.

After the technetium nerf there is nothing worth fighting for/over in 0.0

Nothing of value at all

This argument you've been making hasn't changed for a long time, but the reality that people who are too afraid to go to null today would still be too afraid to go to null, even with these changes, didn't change either. Especially if local were to be removed as well.

There are already ways to bypass choke points today. Wormholes, for example, is the best one. Jump clones, especially with the use of a Rorqual, is another. Sometimes you'd need to get a covert ops frigate or two in position before you go, but those can escape any camp with ease anyway.

People are afraid to go to null because they fear what's inside, not because they fear the path that leads there. Don't believe me? Go ask some long-time empire carebears why they don't make the move.

Wat.

First off, no one ever wants to shoot structures. People in nullsec alliances generally want good fights, or gudfites as we call them. Alliance B and Alliance A would be constantly shooting at each other, because ratters and miners don't put up fun fights. For example, take a look at how much interest those alliances you consider to fall into category A show in category C space (places like Providence or the Drone Regions).

Alliances that fall into category B don't die, they are eternal harassment groups. Take a look at Pizza, as terrible as they are. They have fun shooting at groups that fall into Alliance A's category, do it exclusively, in dirt cheap ships, with no infrastructure to speak of. You can't kill that sort of alliance, they just do their thing and poke at the weaker elements of the group.

In reality, you have the big category A alliances brawling with each other, while smaller groups form up between battles to go have fun shooting at category B alliances, who are constantly doing the same to the category As, while the category Cs just sit around in their crappy space and occasionally have to deal with bored lowsec pilots who like easy kills.

Probably because its more worthwhile, appropriate, advantageous, advisable, beneficial, convenient, desirable, effective, feasible, judicious, meet, opportune, practicable, practical, pragmatic, profitable, prudent, seasonable, suitable, tactical, timely, useful, utilitarian and wise to live in high sec.

After the technetium nerf there is nothing worth fighting for/over in 0.0

Nothing of value at all

This even drives roams away since every ship from a Category A alliance that's lingering around in space can be seen as a 100% bait, thus cyno, and therefore not a worthwhile target since you cannot expect a good fight from it (usually, exceptions prove the rule).

Dotlan wars were never worth it. Players made moons worth it because it was the best they could come up with. The only thing worth coveting right now might be the pirate super carrier blue print.

Null sec has become a place for diplomatic care-bearsGǪ

The U.S does not build its carriers and subs in Alaska. They build them in areas where it is safe.
You want to heavily industrialize / populate an area? No problem. Just expect that area to experience lower crime rates (less valuable rats), and lower availability of resources (less valuable ore and moon goo).

And just like asteroid belts, moons/ rings would naturally dissipate as the sec status went up.
Alliances that need moon goo to support themselves would have to actively explore for more of those precious resources.

Just like nations do today.

I am not saying that there is a finite amount of resources in the game.
I AM saying that as one supply of moon goo shrinks in a heavily industrialized space, another supply increases in some unknown, undeveloped area of low/null.

Why would that make null empty? Surely if it's all peaceful and safe, it should be hunning with activity?

How exactly are highsec miners driving down the price of high end minerals? Do you think highsec miners get mercoxit / zydrine / megacyte?

Yes, yes, vast wealth generation is possible in hisec. More than people in 0.0 could ever imagine.
Now if you'll just sign here i'll make sure you never have to be burdened by all those 0.0 systems anymore

Not to mention CCP just released the data that showed that the mining buff had an impact on the amount of afk and bot miners in high sec.

They cut the legs out from under null sec industry by driving down the value of some high end minerals.
CCP is breaking an already broken null industry, even more, by making it safer in high sec.

All the data clearly indicates that it is the high sec guys that are trying to break EVE, not us.
I'm sure we'll see 700k+ subs in a couple of months, and 70k concurent users on a regular basis, all because high sec got safer. nevermind how it hurts the rest of the game.

Those guys dont shoot back, and your not going to get a super-massive capital fleet titan bridged onto your face.

How come null is so empty
Whats going on? Aren't their people roaming around looking for fights?

There's so many threads about how null is broken, how to fix it, why and what not, however, much like CCP these threads tend to over-complicate what is really very simple, here's 3 changes to vastly improve null:


Make Stations Destructible!

Remove Jump Bridges!

Remove Reinforce Timers!

This argument you've been making hasn't changed for a long time, but the reality that people who are too afraid to go to null today would still be too afraid to go to null, even with these changes, didn't change either. Especially if local were to be removed as well.

There are already ways to bypass choke points today. Wormholes, for example, is the best one. Jump clones, especially with the use of a Rorqual, is another. Sometimes you'd need to get a covert ops frigate or two in position before you go, but those can escape any camp with ease anyway.

People are afraid to go to null because they fear what's inside, not because they fear the path that leads there. Don't believe me? Go ask some long-time empire carebears why they don't make the move.

There's so many threads about how null is broken, how to fix it, why and what not, however, much like CCP these threads tend to over-complicate what is really very simple, here's 3 changes to vastly improve null:


Make Stations Destructible!

Remove Jump Bridges!

Remove Reinforce Timers!

You can ask,l but most will make excuses akin to the "null people are mean and shoot us when we go there so i don't go there" you noticed from the poster you replied to.

While I have characters all over EVE, my "main" has been pure null for 4 years, I remain perplexed by how VIDEO GAME SPACE can somehow be daunting enough to keep people who say they "really would go there if only" from going there.

it's simple really, peeople don't go to null for the same exact reasons that don't pvp in the 1st place,they really don't want to and for many that's because they really really don't like to have to make friends, "take orders from others" or don't like even the though of losing pixels in a video game. But they'll make excuses anyway(it must be that the game is broken, it can't possibly be ME!!!), just to protect their egos.

4000 ships dying per day means null sec is as healty as i need it to be. The guy in the sabe who treid to bubble the station in my ratting system (I'd already warped my mach and rattlesnake though, fail bubble) says there are enough people in null sec....

Did a 50 jump roam in my caracal and found absolutely 0 people going between gates. Jumped into a busy bottleneck constellation full of ratters and died as expected. Even then though the busiest systems in null have only 60 guys docked and active according to the map. Whats going on? Aren't their people roaming around looking for fights?

So... Null Sec industry becomes even harder while importation and logistics are nigh impossible. Yeah, that will create vibrant sov holding entities capable of fighting. How about you educate yourself before theory-crafting. http://themittani.com/features/creation-and-destruction

This argument you've been making hasn't changed for a long time, but the reality that people who are too afraid to go to null today would still be too afraid to go to null, even with these changes, didn't change either. Especially if local were to be removed as well.

There are already ways to bypass choke points today. Wormholes, for example, is the best one. Jump clones, especially with the use of a Rorqual, is another. Sometimes you'd need to get a covert ops frigate or two in position before you go, but those can escape any camp with ease anyway.

People are afraid to go to null because they fear what's inside, not because they fear the path that leads there. Don't believe me? Go ask some long-time empire carebears why they don't make the move.

Probably because its more worthwhile, appropriate, advantageous, advisable, beneficial, convenient, desirable, effective, feasible, judicious, meet, opportune, practicable, practical, pragmatic, profitable, prudent, seasonable, suitable, tactical, timely, useful, utilitarian and wise to live in high sec.

After the technetium nerf there is nothing worth fighting for/over in 0.0

Nothing of value at all

Well, if that's the case, they can all move out and I'll take over.

Well, if that's the case, they can all move out and I'll take over.

Stuff

Mostly because most actual PvPers do it for fun (as in, they look for good fights against competent opponents where victory actually brings satisfaction and loss brings respect).

Killboards are meaningless, good hunts and combat is what PvPers strive for, not K/Ds.

The fact remains that there's very little reason to be in 0.0 in the first place, unless you're one of the few people who directly benefit from moons/fees/taxes, aka the "overlords." For the average guy in the average alliance, the routine is rat > buy pvp Drake/Zealot/Abaddon > lose pvp Drake/Zealot/Abaddon > repeat.

A comprehensive list of things to do in Bearsec:

a.) Sit at Titan all evening, waiting to get bridged.

b.) Sit at Gate all evening.

c.) Get blobed
c1.) Rat and c.)
c2.) Mine and c.)
c3.) Run pirate epic arc and c.)
c4.) Exploration and c.)

d.) Get yelled at by a 10 year drunktard FC that happens to be unemployed for 9 years. Proud of his 2003 char.

e.) Get mouthed of in local by a l33t a$$ PvPster ready to hit puberty in 3 years.

f.) Call people spies.

g.) Be called a spy.

h.) All of the above.

There is nothing else to do in 0.0 other than rat, and join the blob to prevent some other poor sap from ratting and taking their space and moons to make your "overlords" richer.

I like how goonies on here advocate blobs all day like it's da ish, but whine like little 2 year olds when it happens to them.

Null is empty and non reactive mostly in part to the zomgwdfwemustblueeveryone coalition.

Their end game obviously is to zoom around space blue to everyone wearing pink thongs and rainbow colored t-shirts that say "best friends for life!"

Just sad really, there is no competitiveness or even a remotely clear indicator of somewhat "good fights" anymore. It's just who welps who or who out blobs who.

Wish they would make it where jump bridges and titans could only bridge "their" alliance, that would stop the zerg coalitions of butt bandits from grouping each others bums as they zoom through space holding hands with minimal time. Forcing them to take the long route or staging multiple titans, etc.

The big coalitions have ruined null sec imo, unless you like, like I stated up above, being blue to everyone.

Ahahahahahha.

You seem to be ... in pain.

Ahh, there's one of the 8 year old goonies. It's way past your bedtime lil guy.

Aww, it's ok, you don't have to cry, GENERAL DISCUSSION is all about the tears, go do that somewhere that you won't be seen.

So lets all move to null and have lots of good small gang fights and have fun?

Join -A- in Stain, I hear they will ~wolfpax~ there after they get owned out of their current sov.

I never got the whole "waaaa CTAs" and "waaa I don't have enough isk" arguments. Most competent nullsec alliances got rid of CTAs long ago, and will fully reimburse you for PvP losses in fleets. I had my reasons for leaving null, but neither of those were part of my decision.

Join -A- in Stain, I hear they will ~wolfpax~ there after they get owned out of their current sov.

Or you can join goons and instantly reduce your IQ by 100 :)

Whats going on? Aren't their people roaming around looking for fights?

Did a 50 jump roam in my caracal and found absolutely 0 people going between gates. Jumped into a busy bottleneck constellation full of ratters and died as expected. Even then though the busiest systems in null have only 60 guys docked and active according to the map. Whats going on? Aren't their people roaming around looking for fights?

Didn't you get the memo? Null-sec power bloc's all blued each other for the holidays and are spending the time killing red crosses to RMT enough isk to buy christmas presents.

Says the IRC member

main reason is super coalitions that killed of lots of small alliances for lulz to claim marginal space and then promptly dosnt use it other than for epeen

half a year ago there was regions Delve and Querious. Red Alliance moved there after leaving its home. Many small/medium alliances lived in those regions. And started fun war with many small engagements and roams. It was really fun and 0.0 was alive.

Then came Delve2012 and some big NAP coalition stomped all dwelleres of Delve and Querious. Got them out and settled these regions by TEST bots.

And now all you can find there is empty systems and bored pirates trying to find someone to shoot.

And this is very common story

Their [GOONS] end game obviously is to zoom around space blue to everyone wearing pink thongs and rainbow colored t-shirts that say "best friends for life!"

I'm looking forward to the day that a mechanic is changed that will break down these coalitions. Back in the day it used to be alliance vs alliance.

Back in what day? The days of the old NC (which was bigger than any current coalition)? The GBC? The RedSwarm Federation? The LV-led Southern Coalition?

Coalitions aren't the problem. The problem is a really ugly combination of a sov system that puts way too much emphasis on numbers at a single moment (the dreaded final timer) in combination with the general worthlessness of holding sov is the problem.

Sorry for possible doublepost here but this and the general risk adverse attitude of the coalitions in question. People ran from fights back in the day too but it was nowhere near what it's like today. People actually preferd sh*t hitting the fan over looking at the fans in the caldari ship hangar.

Anyone who actually has ever interacted with Goonswarm understand why the idea of them doing anything in pink thongs is disgusting.


Also the last person to be commenting on Null Sec issues is the guy who's a a member of an Alliance that only keeps it's space because it's so worthless no-one else wants to invade it and IRC can be trusted to form up and welp their terrible fit ships every time you go into their space.

Your grasp of mathematics is astounding. Please, share more of your brilliant genius with us.

That's what I'm saying - the space simply isn't worth really fighting for anymore. That's why alliances either give up immediately when their space is under actual threat (Raiden in Tenal, Nulli in Delve) or they give up the moments the fights themselves aren't fun (Dotbros in Tribute/Vale). There was a point when, if things got tough, you'd call in allies, try to make new friends, actually do ~things~ to save your home because you felt it had value and you wanted to keep it. Those days are gone, and a large part of that is due to you realizing your home has no value anymore. That needs to change big time, and in a way that gives any alliance holding sov in any space a fighting chance, not the current "no tech? lol" system.

Ahhh the good old days.... of course the game has improved a hell of a lot since then, but in the process it has lost much of the raw-ness and become more complex and sophisticated, which does not suit everyone.

Could easily say the same of "the iniative" which certainly has a ring of irony.

They're a popular talking point in NPC corp channels alongside the permanent 75 man gatecamps that guard every enterence to hisec.

You could try, certainly, but we're nothing to do with Goons so all you'd be doing is reinforcing my point.

man lot of you still feel butthurt for getting kicked out of your sandcastle, really , and yes i do realize that one day i will be kicked out of null sec by somebody else
instead of whinning about it why don't you do something about it
One day there will be no TEST or goons anymore and coalitions are a pretty fragile concept in this game

Why should someone care to come kick you away? To achieve what?

If we had system to system dial in warp like Star Trek or Star Wars it would be the end of the Great Wall of Carebear formed by the gank pipelines and intel channels and the end of safe nullsec.

Get rid of local too and it's the end of botting.

why is null empty?

- titan bridging

- jump bridges

- jump freighters

- beef'd up ratting systems

- no new interest in 0.0

why is null empty?

- no new interest in 0.0

Why should someone care to come kick you away? To achieve what?

The only reason that someone would want to kick anybody out of 0.0 is if you have money moons, a high enough trusec to make hubs, havens, and sanctums, appear when you upgrade the system, or is convienient to put a jump bridge to empire in, and that is about it really.

If you drop a frog into boiling hot water it will jump straight back out again (if possible) but it you warm the water up a degree at a time the frog will stay in there until it dies.

Which has been proven to be false, but don't let that stop your analogy. Carry on.

Basically 0.0 has become very similar to the adage about the Frog.

If you drop a frog into boiling hot water it will jump straight back out again (if possible) but it you warm the water up a degree at a time the frog will stay in there until it dies.

This is what has happened to 0.0 no real big changes but lots of little/medium changes that has made it into the napfest of what we find today. Obviously anything who is benefitting from this will come on here and say 0.0 is great, really interesting and is the "End Game"tm of EVE.

From what I can see most people in 0.0 actually get killed in 0.0 from nodding off when they are there and hitting the keyboard with their heads and disenaging the cloak.

Not a comment on the post but you do know that the boiling frog thing is a myth that has be disproved time and time again right?

Null can't possibly be empty. There's all the valuable anoms, all the valuable rox, all the valuable NPCs, all the serious elite pew... What the hell are you talking about?!?!?!

Thought I'd chip in here as alliance B or as part of a group of people who harass, grief, gank, roam and generally harm some of the residents of sov 0.0

First of all it sounds like the op went to a backwater part of eve somewhere in the drone regions and went around the same 8 or 9 systems 5 times.
From my experience the best way to quickly get to vibrant and active areas of 0.0 is to use both the in game star map and dotlan.
Goodfights are almost always had especially if you take the time and research and learn about your opponents.

For instance tribal band will always bring a fight provided you appear weak, Test will bring a fight if there is enough of them and an fc is on at the right time, in the drone regions at Russian primetime you can get many gangs of Russians who will always bring the fight.
Fights are plentiful, you just have to have a solid gang and good sense.

If I had to guess as to why many people in this thread are unhappy with null-sec I would put it down to their unwillingness to change. The burden is not on the sovholders to fight you fairly, its on you for not falling into a trap, for learning how to avoid being bridged on, for flying the wrong ships (ones to easily caught) and learning how to roam 0.0 effectively.


Basically my points boil down to Sov holding entities are doing nothing wrong and need to be bigger. People who would like a slice of their pie or to get at the meat inside should learn to adapt.
It can be done.
It has been done.

Look up the word "adage" before you comment. I didn't use the word "fact"

Which is great but you are missing the point.

Null can't possibly be empty. There's all the valuable anoms,

all the valuable rox,

all the valuable NPCs,

all the serious elite pew... What the hell are you talking about?!?!?!

because real pvp is against miners in high sec


indeed

I was replying to the op and I was replying in general to the thread. If I missed a point then perhaps it wasn't a ppoint worth noticing?

Or you're a simpleton?

stuff

Nerfs aimed at the big guys hurt the little guys too. We have been the little guys and went through those toils and travails as well.

The little guy is not the one sporting a titan to bridge hundreds on someone.

If they don't get a bridge the hundreds are still gonna get where they wanna go. I don't think removing titan bridges would have the effect you desire. We got guys deployed in Curse and Syndicate atm just for funsies and they are killing titans, not using them.

In T1 cruisers..hows that for force projection?

why is null empty?

- titan bridging

- jump bridges

- jump freighters

- beef'd up ratting systems

- no new interest in 0.0

... there's fighting in Null Sec ? Noooooooooooooooooo way.

It's time to nerf the "automagic" qualities of Local in Null Sec anyway... let folks start watching over their shoulders again.

This thread is to discover why null is so empty, not put forth ideas to make it more so.

This thread is to discover why null is so empty, not put forth ideas to make it more so.

You're not smart.


I don't go to null because I don't want to make friends. I have quite a few friends. I don't PvP because I hate it. It is at best tedious and at worst it sets me back in my progress as I define it. Why can Video Game Space be daunting? Because a lot of people put legitimate effort into Eve. If they go to null and lose everything then that effort becomes wasted. Some people don't care, some people do, and who are you to say one is better than the other?

I thought it was because Null Seccers are unable to allow anything of substance to be built.

On the one hand, people are perfectly content to deny use of systems (blobs, afk cloakers, titan bridges, covops ambushes, etc), and then on the other, they complain that no one is there.

News flash: the only things of consequence in Null is what the players allow. If Null Sec is empty, it's because the players want it to be that way, and they'll use the existing game mechancics (whatever they are) to advance that adgenda.

So stop complaining that [insert game mechanic] makes Null empty. Null is empty because the powers that be want Null to be empty. End of story.

Those hundreds will take longer to get to he destination and you will have less due to the lazys not wanting to put forth the effort into traveling the distance. As far as your guys deployed; ask yourself why, out of thousands and thousands in your coalition, did so few choose to go?

The answer is complex and vast and ultimately the issue with the current stagnation of null.

Come on guys, everyone knows my avatar scared them back into high-sec.

On a serious note, maybe there just aren't enough rewards to null? Or maybe because it's filled with whiny children making sandcastles who instantly destroy eachothers creations. Is that bad? Nope.

I think that huge 'NAP FEST' you love to point out is the direct result of our diplomatic team and our alliance leadership

I think that huge 'NAP FEST' you love to point out is the direct result of our diplomatic team and our alliance leadership being separate entities, and neither of those entities are full of or headed up by an emotional, drunk egotist.

NCdot had it's own little block going on for some time, which invariably crumbled after criticizing your main FC (that was responsible for holding all that space you didn't want anyway) only to build up into a huge amalgam of stupid and mad that forced the US Leader out of your alliance... over what you ask? A falcon (that didn't even die) that had a T2 BPO that he magicked away from Goons.

Please continue to purchase Geminate Tech Moons from us while talking about NAPs/NIPs, space diplomacy, and elite pvp.

Mostly because most actual PvPers do it for fun (as in, they look for good fights against competent opponents where victory actually brings satisfaction and loss brings respect).

Killboards are meaningless, good hunts and combat is what PvPers strive for, not K/Ds.

Is there any more dancing you plan on doing?

Looks like the *objective* in null has been met

Guess the victors are awaiting the next thing to do, but there's nothing on the cards.

No one's coming / forming anything bigger to challenge you.

Grats

So, CCP, now what?

Bull****. Have yet to encounter ANY pvper in this entire game in years that would NOT chase an empty Badger through 5 systems for the killmail.

Right click space, drop down to planet, drop down to Customs Office, Show Info.

No null system is "empty". No WH is "Empty". No Low sec system is "empty". "I flew through, there was nobody there" does not mean it is empty. Go to the map, click statistics. Pirate and police ships destroyed in the last 24 hrs. No system in EVE is empty. People have learned how to not be a target in a FFA PvP game world. That's all it means.

90% of null is only accessible by choke point.
You can't sneak in to most of Null. The railway systems won't allow for it.

How come null is so empty?

Because hi-sex isn't.

Um, everyone saw what your glorious leader did at fan fest. If that doesn't count as a drunk, emotional egotist then nothing does.

Some exaggeration here and it was plainly stated we did want that space. Why do you keep lying so much and exagerating?

Is there any more dancing you plan on doing?

That's a brilliant deduction! I'm surprised that any people left highsec in the first place since it's so great.