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Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
109
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Posted - 2012.12.08 20:02:00 -
[1] - Quote
This idea goes in part with the one linked in my signature somewhat but I think it has other applications. Their are a number of threads asking for fittings on a freighter for a number of reasons be it to hold more cargo or to tank your ships. I do not believe this will quite work.
My idea is to add one module slot to the freighter in which you can only fit a new siege module. Basically your freighter will enter a reinforced mode where its resistances are sent through the roof. Possibly increasing your EHPx6 or more. The downside is your are totally immobile and will be stuck like that for 5 minutes.
Why?
If freighters were ever to travel through low security space even if they had an escort fleet they would easily be alpha'ed. This would make it so that the freighter could only be destroyed AFTER the escort was dead. While at the same time this would make suicide ganking still feasible if your properly alpha the target and prevent things like 5 tier 3's from killing you in a .5 system with two volleys. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Minty Moon
45
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Posted - 2012.12.09 00:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
thats what scouts are for in an escort. So you dont seen youre freighter through a large hostile fleet...
Also theres the JF which can jump out of hisec into lowsec snuggly by a station or pos avoid lowsec hostiles (Player Opened Direct Wormholes) (Expanding on Wormholes) |
Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
229
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Posted - 2012.12.09 00:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
If they do this is needs a Mega-Maid mode complete with uber-Vac... Look at all the Macks in local...impressive...very impressive...I see you have fashioned a new exhumer...much like you father's...your skills as a miner are now complete...indeed you are powerful as CCP Devs have foreseen. 223 people are confused. |
Mirima Thurander
Estrada Dynamics - Exploration and Acquisition
447
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Posted - 2012.12.09 01:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
A man suggests a way to allow people to escort freighters with out then being the one ending up dead first, and people instantly say there if e use a JF and avoid allot of the risk....
Add this with the option to make JF null sec only, and we now have a thriving need for null blocks to run convoys and security for them and low sec pirates now have a target.
It adds a much needed way to interrupt null resupply from jita and more PvP to lowsec.
A Dark time comes. A time of terror comes. My time. If it offends you. Stop me. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance
342
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Posted - 2012.12.09 03:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
I had to read this post a few times..not because you weren't clear but because I have always be in favor of one rig slot for freighters. After thinking this suggestion over I believe siege mode for freighters would perhaps be over-doing it a little. [IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/consultsig.jpg[/IMG] |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
826
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Posted - 2012.12.09 12:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:A man suggests a way to allow people to escort freighters with out then being the one ending up dead first, and people instantly say there if e use a JF and avoid allot of the risk....
Add this with the option to make JF null sec only, and we now have a thriving need for null blocks to run convoys and security for them and low sec pirates now have a target.
It adds a much needed way to interrupt null resupply from jita and more PvP to lowsec.
Yet every single nullsec veteran who remembers convoy escorts before JFs came along says it's about as much fun as having your fingernails pulled out one by one. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
113
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Posted - 2012.12.09 19:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
Minty Moon wrote:thats what scouts are for in an escort. So you dont seen youre freighter through a large hostile fleet...
Also theres the JF which can jump out of hisec into lowsec snuggly by a station or pos avoid lowsec hostiles
Try moving through a freighter in low sec with a scout. Even if you web the freighter those massive align times will mean that it won't be very hard for somebody to catch up to you and kill you, quickly.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
57
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Posted - 2012.12.09 23:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Quote: Yet every single nullsec veteran who remembers convoy escorts before JFs came along says it's about as much fun as having your fingernails pulled out one by one. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me.
I agree. Being able to supply your vast, half-the-map empire with almost no risk and no need to work as a team DOES sound like an awful lot of fun.
Anyway, @OP: The motivation seems good, but this specific mechanism you are proposing feels awfully clunky and odd, and possibly abusable. It would be slightly better if the siege module only worked in low or null sec, not in high sec. Even then, though, still odd/clunky/probably a better solution out there. |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
115
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Posted - 2012.12.09 23:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Crimeo Khamsi wrote: I agree. Being able to supply your vast, half-the-map empire with almost no risk and no need to work as a team DOES sound like an awful lot of fun.
Anyway, @OP: The motivation seems good, but this specific mechanism you are proposing feels awfully clunky and odd, and possibly abusable. It would be slightly better if the siege module only worked in low or null sec, not in high sec. Even then, though, still odd/clunky/probably a better solution out there.
I suppose it could be banned in high sec. However freighters are far to squishy to survive an engagement, this would mean that a freighter would die without support but in event of battle it will be able to stick it out till the end.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
183
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Posted - 2012.12.10 00:33:00 -
[10] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Crimeo Khamsi wrote: I agree. Being able to supply your vast, half-the-map empire with almost no risk and no need to work as a team DOES sound like an awful lot of fun.
Anyway, @OP: The motivation seems good, but this specific mechanism you are proposing feels awfully clunky and odd, and possibly abusable. It would be slightly better if the siege module only worked in low or null sec, not in high sec. Even then, though, still odd/clunky/probably a better solution out there.
I suppose it could be banned in high sec. However freighters are far to squishy to survive an engagement, this would mean that a freighter would die without support but in event of battle it will be able to stick it out till the end.
Given how affordable the t1 logi cruisers are, just throw some of those in an escort fleet. It will through off the ganker's calculations enough that you can get through a camp while they are reshipping or waiting out GCC, or whatever the new crimewatch system calls it now. |
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Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
115
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Posted - 2012.12.10 01:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Given how affordable the t1 logi cruisers are, just throw some of those in an escort fleet. It will through off the ganker's calculations enough that you can get through a camp while they are reshipping or waiting out GCC, or whatever the new crimewatch system calls it now.
The reason you don't see freighters escourted by logi in highsec now is because they get alpha'ed. If 10 tier 3 battlecruisers can 1 shot a freighter you think it will survive a normal pvp fleet attacking? Let us also not forget that you can not buff the resists on a freighter with modules making their tank under logi support awful. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Minty Moon
45
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Posted - 2012.12.10 02:05:00 -
[12] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:
Let us also not forget that you can not buff the resists on a freighter with modules making their tank under logi support awful.
You can buff the resists with command ships. I've pointed this out many times (Player Opened Direct Wormholes) (Expanding on Wormholes) |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
115
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Posted - 2012.12.10 02:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Minty Moon wrote:Commander Ted wrote:
Let us also not forget that you can not buff the resists on a freighter with modules making their tank under logi support awful.
You can buff the resists with command ships. I've pointed this out many times still not good enough https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
115
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Posted - 2012.12.10 03:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
This would only mean that a freighter would be saved for last in any engagement rather than being the first thing that dies making the purpose of the fight irrelevant. Imagine in a fight over a pos if it was only as strong as a battleship, that would be silly. This would leave the freighter as a stationary objective that can only be dealt with after the battle is over. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Shepard Wong Ogeko
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
183
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Posted - 2012.12.10 03:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Given how affordable the t1 logi cruisers are, just throw some of those in an escort fleet. It will through off the ganker's calculations enough that you can get through a camp while they are reshipping or waiting out GCC, or whatever the new crimewatch system calls it now.
The reason you don't see freighters escourted by logi in highsec now is because they get alpha'ed. If 10 tier 3 battlecruisers can 1 shot a freighter you think logi are going to save the day? Let us also not forget that you can not buff the resists on a freighter with modules making their tank under logi support awful.
If the gankers alpha the logi, they won't have the DPS to gank the freighter before Concord does their job. The gankers don't have infinite tier 3's to throw at a freighter, and exchanging a tier 3 for a t1 logi cruiser isn't very profitable.
The reason I don't see escorted freighters in highsec is because highsec people are lazy and feel entitled to safety.
Also, if escorting a freighter through 0.5 space is so damn close to impossible that the game needs new or revamped freighters, how does anyone expect them to be escorted through low or nullsec? |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
115
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Posted - 2012.12.10 03:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
If the gankers alpha the logi, they won't have the DPS to gank the freighter before Concord does their job. The gankers don't have infinite tier 3's to throw at a freighter, and exchanging a tier 3 for a t1 logi cruiser isn't very profitable.
The reason I don't see escorted freighters in highsec is because highsec people are lazy and feel entitled to safety.
Also, if escorting a freighter through 0.5 space is so damn close to impossible that the game needs new or revamped freighters, how does anyone expect them to be escorted through low or nullsec?
You don't need to kill the logi if the freighter has been alpha'ed. You kill the freighter before the logi even has a chance to push the rep button. Not to mention freighter resists are **** even with links. Also you did not read the reasoning for why I proposed this change, it has nothing to do with high sec.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
502
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Posted - 2012.12.10 04:52:00 -
[17] - Quote
Strangely, I like it. When I first read your thread title I skipped right over it, and then again, and again, and again...
..but then I decided to look and I actually read it, (nice and short btw), and a few comments briefly skimmed which were mostly in disagreement, but hnestly, Freighters suck and this would be a cool way to make them more interesting.
Here's the thought:
Freighters need fitting, but it can't be overpowered, allow them t become hauling, tanking beasts or whatever. That's all pretty much agreed on.
Your idea, takes something used elsewhere for Capital ships, (and requiring Adv. Spaceship Command, a Freighter qualifies), and just thrusts it in there on the currently non-existent highslot. Just one.
I'd like to extrapolate on that just a bit. Currently the only modification to Freighters is the skills of the pilot, which essentially do what they always do, increase base stats. A freighter doesn't even have Powergrid and CPU iirc, but it does have Inertia and Velocity, Shields, Armor, and Structure which are all affected. Nothing else to them really, except a Capacitor used only for Warp.
This new module would have to be an effect on the Freighter much like the effect of reinforcement on a POS, but without the invulnerability. It should still be vulnerable, but much more capable of sustaining that damage, and it should have a weakness, much like the other siege modules: Capacitor.
So, no influence on shields or armor, which will go down as normal, but once you hit structure, the effect of the siege module kicks in: 99% resistances on Structure like a POS would be an example of the effect; not necessarily the effect. This would require significant capacitor to maintain of course, and the ship would become vulnerable to Neuts.
See, the thing about a ship without fitting, is their is no thinking or doing aside from point A to point B. If you get attacked, you either sit there and die, or hope someone will come to your aid before it is all over.
The Freighter should have enough Cap to manage a full cycle of the Siege mode of course; not much point in having a specialized fitting that can`t be used for a full cycle by the ship intended to fit it. One full cycle should be all you need, if you can manage it.
I have no idea what the Hull, Armor, Shield ratios are on a Freighter, so I`m just ignoring that.
Add to that some other fitting options, make it a real Cap ship, and what you`d end up with would be a little more interesting. This may require shifting those Shield, Armor, Hull ratios around and reducing base Cargo capacity among other things, but I think the end result would be much more interesting and allow for more player involvement when the situation arises.
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Mars Theran
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
502
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Posted - 2012.12.10 05:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
300 s duration on the siege module I see, and Stront usage only, rather than capacitor apparently. That makes it just a bit hard to defeat as far as that is concerned.
So, I'm thinking it should only provide limited resistances to structure, (somewhat more than a DC II perhaps, and probably non-stacking), while also providing other bonuses and penalties. Perhaps it can't be fit on a ship with a DC II as well, but that seems a bit ridiculous of a requirement.
Limit the duration to no more than 250s as well, or maybe 120s. idk.. like I said, I'm not particularly familiar with Cap ships, and besides, this would require additional thought. zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
116
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Posted - 2012.12.10 06:34:00 -
[19] - Quote
I think any bonuses should be in shields or armor depending on the race of the ship as to more adequately facilitate logistics vessels. It shouldn't be a 99% resist bonus in structure because then the freighter can cycle indefinitely while pissing off whoever is attacking the freighter even if they already won the battle with the escort fleet. It should have high resists but relatively low EHP for a capital ship making survival only sustainable when an escort is present. It is meant to protect the ship during a battle but it will die when the battle is over. While the long cycle time is a strategic drawback to its use meaning that you can't just pick up and go once you win. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
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