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Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
30
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Posted - 2012.12.11 02:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
after a thought.. i had the brilliant idea of makeing active hulltanking viable.
the reppers are midslots (as they are now) but let the hull reppers have same stats as armor reppers (cycle time energy use fitting cpu/pg) and perhaps add faction deadspace and officer damage controls or make some other way to improve the tank like hull resist moduals (other then damage controls) for lows cause it would basically be like armor tanking but with hull and when hull goes its POP so its more risk for the tanking rewards..
ps we all know the gallente would love this cause most of their ships actually have more HULL then armor most of the time. |
Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
59
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Posted - 2012.12.11 03:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Damage control II gives like 60% resists to hull, though... Which would make hull tanking pretty horrendously overpowered if the reppers were also as effective as armor reppers and there were resist modules blah blah. Especially since DC doesn't have stacking penalties.
a single DC + one active resist mod would get you to 80%+ resists in that damage type... which is pretty silly to be able to combine with full strength bonus'ed, full speed repping on top of it. |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Relativity Alliance
786
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Posted - 2012.12.11 03:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
I dunno, if your tank is being beaten... you need to recognize and warp out before you find yourself pod tanking.
I would say hull tanking would be the least forgiving, and the risk level could justify a seemingly more effective return. Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Luc Chastot
Moira. Villore Accords
105
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Posted - 2012.12.11 05:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Well, a hull-tanking-bonused ship would be a funny 10th anniversary gift. Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
1213
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Posted - 2012.12.11 05:59:00 -
[5] - Quote
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:a single DC + one active resist mod would get you to 80%+ resists in that damage type... which is pretty silly to be able to combine with full strength bonus'ed, full speed repping on top of it. There are no resist mods other than the Damage Control that affect hull. You are right that Reinforced Bulkheads have no stacking penalty though.
Certain ships can already get stupid amounts of EHP though using just bulkheads and a Damage Control though. If I recall correctly... a Dominix can get something in the range of 150 to 200k EHP 100k EHP. And have PLENTY of CPU and PG for weapons, mods, or even a full shield tank. You just move slower than a zombified, beached whale. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective. |
Luscius Uta
Unleashed' Fury Forsaken Federation
27
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Posted - 2012.12.11 08:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
While active hull tanking might not be the best idea even if we had a ship with bonus to it, CCP should certainly turn the DC into a passive module. It eats 1 GJ per cycle and can't be overheated so I don't really see a point in it being an active module. |
MainDrain
7th Deepari Defence Armada The Veyr Collective
20
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Posted - 2012.12.11 08:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP hate hull tanking
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=18195571 |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Tribal Band
247
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Posted - 2012.12.11 11:33:00 -
[8] - Quote
Minmatar ships should be designed to hull tank. It just makes sense to me. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
240
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Posted - 2012.12.11 11:57:00 -
[9] - Quote
Honour tank - best tank I am not my skills but... http://eveboard.com/pilot/Schmata_Bastanold |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
827
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Posted - 2012.12.11 12:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Luscius Uta wrote:While active hull tanking might not be the best idea even if we had a ship with bonus to it, CCP should certainly turn the DC into a passive module. It eats 1 GJ per cycle and can't be overheated so I don't really see a point in it being an active module.
It's an active module so you can neut it off if you're attacking a super. |
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Tribal Band
247
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Posted - 2012.12.11 12:43:00 -
[11] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Luscius Uta wrote:While active hull tanking might not be the best idea even if we had a ship with bonus to it, CCP should certainly turn the DC into a passive module. It eats 1 GJ per cycle and can't be overheated so I don't really see a point in it being an active module. It's an active module so you can neut it off if you're attacking a super. That's one advantage to it being active, though a minor one for the greater EVE community. I think (and I'm pretty sure about this) that the real reason it's an active module is so that it turns off after jumping through a stargate, so that it'll be inactive during an AFK autopilot trip. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
228
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Posted - 2012.12.11 12:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
I think that the only Empire that would go on Active Hull tanking would be minmattar....
Hull tanking is like absorbing hits with your internal organs...
Also, It is extremely hard to fix and rebuild the soft parts of the ship (and clean the mess and rests of the crew that was in the damaged area...) that is why it takes centuries for the hull repair to do its job...
So, hull tanking should always be passive...
But maybe the bulkwards should be modified to give some more hull resistance...15% ? Please read this! > New POS system (Block Built) Please read this! > Refining and Reprocess Revamp |
Griffin Omanid
Viziam Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2012.12.11 12:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Minmatar ships should be designed to hull tank. It just makes sense to me.
Aren-¦t Minmatar ships the weakest hull tankers?
They normally got usefull shields and some get a slightly better amour then Caldari, but as Shah Fluffers already mentioned the best hull tankers are Gallente followed by Armarr. This is also the reason why armour tankers are a treat until they explode while shield tankers are nothing more then screaming little girls as soon as they loose theire shield.
If I am not wrong damage on the hull also influences your inertia, so normally as soon as you start to tank only with your hull you are assuming that you loose your ship, and just want to deal as long as much damage as possible. |
Alx Warlord
SUPERNOVA SOCIETY Tribal Conclave
228
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Posted - 2012.12.11 13:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Griffin Omanid wrote:Aren-¦t Minmatar ships the weakest hull tankers? True, but a duct tape can fix it pretty quickly... Please read this! > New POS system (Block Built) Please read this! > Refining and Reprocess Revamp |
Nikk Narrel
Infinite Improbability Inc Relativity Alliance
788
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Posted - 2012.12.11 14:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:Griffin Omanid wrote:Aren-¦t Minmatar ships the weakest hull tankers? True, but a duct tape can fix it pretty quickly... Forget nanite paste, Minmatar labs made a breakthrough in logistics! Duct Tape Auto-applicators (mid slot hull tanking mod) (for the Scimitar) Large Duct Tape remote dispenser (drones) Heavy Duct Tape Maintenance Bot
(Tape available in camo colors for T2 Hull matching) Cloaking being on a ten minute manual cycle timer? (Author: Bree Okanata) Fine. As long as there is a ten minute timer for being docked in a station. Also, you can't stop moving in the game. Just add in a way so every ten minutes you are randomly warped to the nearest other player. Keeps people from going AFK. |
Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
30
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Posted - 2012.12.11 15:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:I dunno, if your tank is being beaten... you need to recognize and warp out before you find yourself pod tanking.
I would say hull tanking would be the least forgiving, and the risk level could justify a seemingly more effective return. THIS! ^ |
Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
30
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Posted - 2012.12.11 15:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
or just leave it as it stands atm except make the hull reppers in line with armor reppers and give them the same rep rigs so you only get the 60% across the board insted of shield/armor tank with resists 80%+ |
Dersen Lowery
Laurentson INC StructureDamage
203
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Posted - 2012.12.11 16:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Gallente were the original hull tankers. In fact, you can still find Catalyst fits where the only tank is a Damage Control II, or meta variant. They still have huge hulls.
I like the idea of having a full spread of hull tanking rigs and modules (and skills! I want my X Hull Compensation skills!) for hull tanking, mostly just for LOLs. But then, there are non-LOL-fit hull tankers: the above-mentioned Catalyst, a handful of other Gallente frigates, and the Orca. |
Commander Ted
Dookie on the flowah
119
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Posted - 2012.12.11 16:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Many gallente ships are already capable of fitting a hull tank that is practical in pvp. Makes great bait. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Tribal Band
248
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Posted - 2012.12.11 16:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
I'd like to point out that capital remote hull repairers are actually pretty fast. Of course they're slower than capital remote armor repairers, but they're a hell of a lot faster than large remote hull repairers. I bet a group of triage thanatoses and/or archons could actually hull tank with each other. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
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Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
30
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Posted - 2012.12.12 00:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alx Warlord wrote:I think that the only Empire that would go on Active Hull tanking would be minmattar....
Hull tanking is like absorbing hits with your internal organs...
Also, It is extremely hard to fix and rebuild the soft parts of the ship (and clean the mess and rests of the crew that was in the damaged area...) that is why it takes centuries for the hull repair to do its job...
So, hull tanking should always be passive...
But maybe the bulkwards should be modified to give some more hull resistance...15% ?
possably but gallente have ships which have equal or greater HUll hp then armor hp. |
Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
30
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Posted - 2012.12.12 00:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Commander Ted wrote:Many gallente ships are already capable of fitting a hull tank that is practical in pvp. Makes great bait.
pvp or pve i was talkign about the active hull reppers. |
Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
30
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Posted - 2012.12.12 00:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Crimeo Khamsi wrote:a single DC + one active resist mod would get you to 80%+ resists in that damage type... which is pretty silly to be able to combine with full strength bonus'ed, full speed repping on top of it. There are no resist mods other than the Damage Control that affect hull. You are right that Reinforced Bulkheads have no stacking penalty though. Certain ships can already get stupid amounts of EHP though using just bulkheads and a Damage Control though. If I recall correctly... a Dominix can get something in the range of 150 to 200k EHP 100k EHP. And have PLENTY of CPU and PG for weapons, mods, or even a full shield tank. You just move slower than a zombified, beached whale.
thats because bulkheads are like armor plates or shield extenders, they add no resists at all. |
Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
61
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Posted - 2012.12.12 18:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Quote: There are no resist mods other than the Damage Control that affect hull. You are right that Reinforced Bulkheads have no stacking penalty though.
I know. But that's what the thread is about... adding such mods... |
Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
33
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Posted - 2012.12.12 18:41:00 -
[25] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:I'd like to point out that capital remote hull repairers are actually pretty fast. Of course they're slower than capital remote armor repairers, but they're a hell of a lot faster than large remote hull repairers. I bet a group of triage thanatoses and/or archons could actually hull tank with each other.
i think it may not work cause they may be in triage at the time while armor repair in triage is probably even faster. |
Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
33
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Posted - 2012.12.12 18:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
Crimeo Khamsi wrote:Quote: There are no resist mods other than the Damage Control that affect hull. You are right that Reinforced Bulkheads have no stacking penalty though.
I know. But that's what the thread is about... adding such mods...
maybe give bulkheads a x% passive resist or something which stacks on DC2.. maybe just 1% on t1 and 2.5% on t2 or something? |
Crimeo Khamsi
AirHogs Zulu People
61
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Posted - 2012.12.13 00:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hm, passive hull tanking is actually pretty viable already. Maybe everyone else knew this already, but I never even really looked into hull tanking at all, so maybe this is helpful to some (I know the thread is about active tanking):
Take a vindicator for example, and let's say you have 5 low slots free for buffer tanking. Ignoring rigs and implants for now: 10,500 hull hit points * 1.25^4 (no penalty) = 25,634 * 2.5 (for the 60% absorbing DCII) = 64,085 EHP hull tank 9300 armor hit points + 8400 from a couple 1600mm plates = 17,700. Existing bonuses are about 32% on average. With a couple expensive adaptive plates you might get +20% and then +17% (stacking penalty) = 55% overall resists on average + DCII = 45,188 EHP armor tank.
If you take into accout rigs (which allow armor tank bonuses, but not hull), then you could throw on 3 trimark pumps t2 and get up to 70,041 armor tank EHP
Which makes them basically the same outcome (Keep in mind that the base armor EHP is a bit higher than the base hull EHP, so theyre actually even closer than they look above). Hull being a good deal better in most cases, actually, due to not eating up your rig slots and bulkheads not having fitting requirements. But it should be a bit stronger, since there is more risk involved.
Considering the above, active hull reppers probably could be boosted a BIT without really unbalancing anything. |
Seranova Farreach
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
33
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Posted - 2012.12.13 01:44:00 -
[28] - Quote
mhmm indeed. if it was just DC2 + reppers (updated in line with armor reppers and amounts) it could work and might make for some interesting fits sicne the repper is mid and its 1 slot in low.
also since you would be HULLTANKING (like a bawss) there would be sevear drawbacks like limited to 60% resists and if you run out of hull its POP. not like armor and shield which have the nest line or 2 down to gtfo.
and let us not forget that some ships, in peticular gallente seem to have equal or greater hull amount. so i do thnk this could work for them.
lets take a typical armor ship form the gallente.. say the mega.. 4 mids prop mod, cap booster, 2x hull repper.
lows DC2 ,3 magstabs, 2TE's (or 3 dependign how fast youw anna be), and this leaves room for such thigns like nanos or overdrives.. thus could "fix" the use of blasters in meny situations!! |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Tribal Band
250
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Posted - 2012.12.13 09:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
Seranova Farreach wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:I'd like to point out that capital remote hull repairers are actually pretty fast. Of course they're slower than capital remote armor repairers, but they're a hell of a lot faster than large remote hull repairers. I bet a group of triage thanatoses and/or archons could actually hull tank with each other. i think it may not work cause they may be in triage at the time while armor repair in triage is probably even faster. Triage modules give the same bonus to hull repair as they do to armor repair. -á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters i'm strangely comfortable with it" -Mittens |
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