Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
143
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 01:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
has anyone noticed that when an npc turns up its mwd its signature dosnt increases ?
and... now that npcs decided drones are worth killing along with your ship, maybe CCP could increase all the ship drone bays as to carry extra drones to deal with the loses during long battles?.
I don't care about losing drones but having to leave an anom or a mission at half run because I ran out of drones just to get more at the station is quite annoying.
additionally now that drones are doing serious damage with drone amplifiers they are starting to get snipped quite more often in player skirmishes.
so we really need to get some extra large drone bays... please? |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
723
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 01:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
What!??!?! Drones are now a depleteable weapon system like ammo and crystals?!?!?! Surely this isnt fair! Please, go on. Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
143
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 01:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:What!??!?! Drones are now a depleteable weapon system like ammo and crystals?!?!?! Surely this isnt fair! Please, go on.
I like them to be depletable, it should have been this way always O,o I m not saying they should not pop, I m saying we need larger bays to accommodate more drones to pop. |
Revman Zim
Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda
41
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 01:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Easy way to fix this would be to make it possible for drones to be moved from the cargo bay into the drone bay while in space.
Then extra drones could be carried like extra ammo in the cargo bay. Reload a gun... reload a drone bay. Same concept. |
Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
143
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 01:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote:Easy way to fix this would be to make it possible for drones to be moved from the cargo bay into the drone bay while in space.
Then extra drones could be carried like extra ammo in the cargo bay. Reload a gun... reload a drone bay. Same concept. ^^^^^ this please |
Pretty GuyYeah
30
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 03:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote:Easy way to fix this would be to make it possible for drones to be moved from the cargo bay into the drone bay while in space.
Then extra drones could be carried like extra ammo in the cargo bay. Reload a gun... reload a drone bay. Same concept.
Apart from the price being a thousand times bigger. But yeah, you're right about how quick they vanish. Remove local. Revamp or buff drones. Buff low and nullsec. Limit null camping possibilities. |
Usagi Toshiro
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 03:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote:Easy way to fix this would be to make it possible for drones to be moved from the cargo bay into the drone bay while in space.
Then extra drones could be carried like extra ammo in the cargo bay. Reload a gun... reload a drone bay. Same concept.
Please and thank you. |
Maggeridon Thoraz
Reconfiguration Nation Transmission Lost
32
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 03:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
that was long time ago possible and has been exploited and removed. i saw youtube vids , but was actually before my time |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
595
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 04:03:00 -
[9] - Quote
They did increase the drone bays in the ships they were revamping ... unfortunately that doesn't help all the ships they haven't gotten to yet. |
Mhari Dson
Lazy Brothers Inc
39
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 04:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:What!??!?! Drones are now a depleteable weapon system like ammo and crystals?!?!?! Surely this isnt fair! Please, go on.
Run a mission/site/whatev with 5 bullets before you spout garbage please? |
|
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
744
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 04:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote: and... now that npcs decided drones are worth killing along with your ship, maybe CCP could increase all the ship drone bays as to carry extra drones to deal with the loses during long battles?.
What drone losses?
Learn to use drones. Yeah sure if you just let them engage stuff automatically, they are going to get blapped. Kill the stuff that can track your drones best, first. I haven't lost a drone since the patch. Had a few dinged into armor, but not actually lost one.
|
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
595
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 04:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Ager Agemo wrote: and... now that npcs decided drones are worth killing along with your ship, maybe CCP could increase all the ship drone bays as to carry extra drones to deal with the loses during long battles?.
What drone losses? Learn to use drones. Yeah sure if you just let them engage stuff automatically, they are going to get blapped. Kill the stuff that can track your drones best, first. I haven't lost a drone since the patch. Had a few dinged into armor, but not actually lost one.
There are a lot of people that have lost drones, just because you personally haven't doesn't mean there isn't an issue. The fact CCP has said there is an issue means there is an issue.
|
Revman Zim
Aura of Darkness Nulli Secunda
43
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 05:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Another thing about using (and not losing) drones is one of skills.
Improve your Drone Durability and your drones can last longer. Improve their damage... well, you get the idea.
|
Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
143
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 15:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote:Another thing about using (and not losing) drones is one of skills.
Improve your Drone Durability and your drones can last longer. Improve their damage... well, you get the idea.
maxed drone skills, and some drones are getting one shooted. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Murientor Tribe Defiant Legacy
611
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 15:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:What!??!?! Drones are now a depleteable weapon system like ammo and crystals?!?!?! Surely this isnt fair! Please, go on.
Except most ships can carry between 2,000 and 10,000 rounds of ammo. And most rebalanced Gallente hulls can only carry 1.25-2.5 flights of drones...
Don't get me wrong, if drones are to be like ammo, I'm totally for that! Just the drone bay has to be increased 1000x, and drone production blueprints changed to produce a hundred drones per production cycle for the same materials, instead of just a single drone. |
Mirima Thurander
Estrada Dynamics - Exploration and Acquisition
449
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 15:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
There's 3/10 site for blood raiders that's got 5 pockets full of nothing but frigs I used to run it with a vexor and warrior 2s now as soon as I launch drones this frigs pop them INSTANTLY because ever rooms full of 15 or more frigs.
So yes some things ARE impossible too do with drones now. A Dark time comes. A time of terror comes. My time. If it offends you. Stop me. |
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
1505
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 15:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:has anyone noticed that when an npc turns up its mwd its signature dosnt increases ?
I've actually noticed the opposite. A frig npc with its MWD on is much easier to pop with sentry drones or an Oracle than one without it on.
NPCs with MWD on is also why you keep losing your drones. When drones turn on their MWD, they are easy targets for the rats.
Mitigate this by getting close to your target first, then release your drones. They won't use their MWD this way.
I find that without a good mob to provide one for them, most people would have no mentality at all. |
Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
143
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 18:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:has anyone noticed that when an npc turns up its mwd its signature dosnt increases ?
I've actually noticed the opposite. A frig npc with its MWD on is much easier to pop with sentry drones or an Oracle than one without it on. NPCs with MWD on is also why you keep losing your drones. When drones turn on their MWD, they are easy targets for the rats. Mitigate this by getting close to your target first, then release your drones. They won't use their MWD this way.
actually the mwd issue, looks apparent when using torpedos against some battlecruisers, even if their signature its 4 kilometers or should be 4 kilometers they are still cutting all the damage pretty much. |
Xindi Kraid
The Night Wardens Viro Mors Non Est
54
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 18:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
Drones are a supplementary weapon system on most ships, so they don't need a bay buff. Ships that use primarily drones have enough drone bay for a couple extra flights, so they don't need a change.
Drone AI needs fixed, though. |
Dave stark
797
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 18:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
have you ever thought about actually paying attention to your drone window instead of just deploying them and going afk?
no? well maybe you should. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
|
Pretty GuyYeah
38
|
Posted - 2012.12.12 19:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Drones do indeed need either a buff or revamp. Remove local. Revamp or buff drones. Buff low and nullsec. Limit null camping possibilities. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
745
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 11:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pretty GuyYeah wrote:Drones do indeed need either a buff or revamp.
Nah, maybe a "drone durability" module might be nice, but I'm really not having as much trouble as some people seem to be. I mean yeah gone are the days of fitting a Gila with an auto-targeting module, warping to a site, drawing aggro and going afk, but hey that's not really "playing" anyway. |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
423
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 11:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:War Kitten wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:has anyone noticed that when an npc turns up its mwd its signature dosnt increases ?
I've actually noticed the opposite. A frig npc with its MWD on is much easier to pop with sentry drones or an Oracle than one without it on. NPCs with MWD on is also why you keep losing your drones. When drones turn on their MWD, they are easy targets for the rats. Mitigate this by getting close to your target first, then release your drones. They won't use their MWD this way. actually the mwd issue, looks apparent when using torpedos against some battlecruisers, even if their signature its 4 kilometers or should be 4 kilometers they are still cutting all the damage pretty much.
Because they are moving at, you know, mwd speed?
|
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
803
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 11:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ager Agemo wrote:Revman Zim wrote:Another thing about using (and not losing) drones is one of skills.
Improve your Drone Durability and your drones can last longer. Improve their damage... well, you get the idea.
maxed drone skills, and some drones are getting one shooted.
Confirming this is a problem. http://i.imgur.com/t2846.jpg
Drones get a) one-shotted, b) when you tell them to return they actually die faster because of mwd c) you can't always keep drones within 5km of your ship and instant-recall (even if you are lucky and they don't get one-shotted). AFK-cloaking in a system near you. |
Doddy
Excidium. Executive Outcomes
423
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 11:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
The drone hate is a little excessive, but most of the problems are just people being bad at eve, |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
804
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 11:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Pretty GuyYeah wrote:Drones do indeed need either a buff or revamp. Nah, maybe a "drone durability" module might be nice, but I'm really not having as much trouble as some people seem to be. I mean yeah gone are the days of fitting a Gila with an auto-targeting module, warping to a site, drawing aggro and going afk, but hey that's not really "playing" anyway.
No, drone durability is balanced in PvP. And drones could die in PvE if they got aggro, before. The problem is the new AI that one-shots drones, that is the sole issue. The only thing that could and should be done, is to greatly reduce the amount of damage that NPCs do to drones. Something in the window of 10-20% damage compared to current levels. That gives players enough time to recall drones and compensate for the drones MWD bloom.
It's funny how we posted this would happen, repeatedly, before the new AI was introduced. I can't recall how many times I told CCP to actually try this outside of the two-three missions they ran. Sleeper AI vs drones works because sleepers are so few, but if you start to run complexes and certain missions that has alot of NPCs, suddenly you can tell this new AI is completely unreasonable vs drones.
You saw the guy posting about his Vexors drones dying to 15 frigs. A vexor even has +hp for drones. Now picture you instead are running a site where there is 30, 40, hell in some cases 50+ NPCs, and you're fielding several millions worth of isk of medium drones in a ship that has no drone bay to replay them: it's completely unreasonably that they die, simply put.
Even if CCP would do stuff like letting drones be alot cheaper, bigger drone bays, be transferable from cargo to drone bay etc (i.e. turning drones into ammo), then that is a horrible change for PvP. Many times it has always been a valid counter to certain ships (especially frigs) to shoot another ships drones, as drones is the only real threat. Now if you start throwing wave after wave of these drones, especially with same hp/dmg they have today, it completely breaks PvP.
Why'd you break PvP because CCP can't fix a AI change? One that was pointed out to them in advance as well? CCP are just lazy, pushing their own agenda, not caring about side effects. And they won't even do the simple fix there is (if they must keep this new AI): either significantly reduce damage to drones from NPCs, or significantly reduce the chance of drones getting aggro (that'd still cause drones to get one-shotted by certain NPCs tho, so it's a poor lazy man solution).
CCP, just drop NPC damage done to drones to 10% of current levels and you have fixed PvE without breaking PvP. AFK-cloaking in a system near you. |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
804
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 12:13:00 -
[27] - Quote
Doddy wrote:The drone hate is a little excessive, but most of the problems are just people being bad at eve,
In smallscale PvE, you are correct. People are lazy, don't know/care about drone MWD sig bloom, don't pay attention, etc.
But for bigger sites and missions, it actually is gamebreaking. > Ishtar/Gilas can't be used in certain combat plexes - at all. Sentries get one-shotted, smaller drones - even if you get within 2km of every single damn NPC - still gets one-shotted. > There is plenty of missions where it was well known you could not deploy drones until you had all aggro, as drones would pull entire room. So you used to pull entire room, then release drones. By now you often had 25-50 NPCs on you. If you do the same today the drones get one-shotted. So you have to kill off as much you can with conventional weapons, then use drones to pick stuff off at the end. > Many PvP boats don't have the luxury of tanking (neither their ship nor drones) vs PvE content. If we try gank someone running PvE content, we might not be able to use drones at all. It basicly means there is PvP scenarios where you can't use drones - at all -. What does this add to the game? Is there any benefit/gain? For what loss?
That's just three examples. This greatly reduce the speed of which you run some sites/missions (i.e. is in-effective), and is not a matter of players being bad. It's a matter of CCP making one of the games primary weapon systems useless. Drone boats, even with +hp, is not enough to keep drones alive even when they are sitting right next to you and never MWD. Simple NPC firepower alpha them to oblivion.
I predicted this actually, since I did test it before it came out and I did report this was going to happen. Sites where I used to use droneboats (Ishtar, Gila, Navy Domi) I now purely run with HML Tengu. Even alot of cases where a good tracking platform (like Nightmare) is now not working as you can't use it's drones vs frigs, unless you get enough range at the start. Try this vs NPCs that TD or jam you. It also means ships like torp-Golems now are make near-useless in some PvE content (which is what it was designed for, no?) because you can't use it drones if there is enough small NPCs. And you need the drones vs the small NPCs, or you are just sat there not being able to do anything at all..
The real effect of this is even MORE PvE content is (by good players) run by Tengus. I'm not sure this is the development CCP wanted. For good players, this means less ships are useful, a complete weapon system broken, and not a single good reason has been given as to why they'd want to do this. Personally I'm quite gutted that something that should be affecting PvE (NPC AI) is having a big impact on PvP as well. AFK-cloaking in a system near you. |
Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
143
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 23:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
Misanth wrote:Ager Agemo wrote:Revman Zim wrote:Another thing about using (and not losing) drones is one of skills.
Improve your Drone Durability and your drones can last longer. Improve their damage... well, you get the idea.
maxed drone skills, and some drones are getting one shooted. Confirming this is a problem. http://i.imgur.com/t2846.jpgDrones get a) one-shotted, b) when you tell them to return they actually die faster because of mwd c) you can't always keep drones within 5km of your ship and instant-recall (even if you are lucky and they don't get one-shotted).
if a signature is larger than a missile explosion the remaining explosion radius become a factor multiplier for missile explosion velocity, thus MWDs make you an easier target for missiles.
|
Ager Agemo
Saturn Reaper
143
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 23:56:00 -
[29] - Quote
Dave stark wrote:have you ever thought about actually paying attention to your drone window instead of just deploying them and going afk?
no? well maybe you should.
oh sure... AFKing with a golem -.- also recalling drones wont help them, if your drones are 30 kms away killing some frig, they will die on the way back due to MWD signature increase and because they fly on straigh lines. |
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
209
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 11:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
I have always wondered why NPCs don't operate by the same rules as players do. ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o ) ( o Y o )
The world would be a better place if boobies ran the world instead of boobs. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |